|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 7:50:20 GMT -5
I remember one of my first exposures were when roughly around the same time Christian gave Olli the finger and told him his user name should have been Arschloch while Roman explained to Annette via the visual tool of a French Fry that Deniz had an erection during their little shower adventure. It was a bit of a culture shock. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by gastLXXXIV on May 30, 2008 7:51:41 GMT -5
I've not been all that comfortable with the idea that there is a controlling aspect to Olli. Maybe it's because I just like Olli a whole lot, but it hasn't really rung true for me. The emotional intimacy we saw in today's clip, and the example from yesterday, really does suggest to me a deeper and more mutual connection between them. That's how I feel, too. Whenever anyone tries to influence the outcome of a situation--by word or deed--there is, by definition, the attempt to control. But the seriousness of the circumstances make all the difference. Those 'types' who are called controlling cannot distinguish between situations where interference is warranted and those where it were the compulsive need to assert one's own will. I don't think Olli is one of those people. He acts when circumstances require it--especially given Christian's impulsiveness. In particular, when he supposed that Christian had been in Schwulchat (rather than 'researching' steroids), he was tolerant, even a little amused--not alarmed and adamantly opposing. He allows "We all have our little secrets," which is not the philosophy of the 'controlling type'. |
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 8:16:41 GMT -5
Not to mention "Being right isn't everything".
That said, people have very different takes on what they consider interference with their stuff. And Christian's might be somewhat more sensitive than other people's. So who knows there this is going. If it's a larger story about Christian knowing/learning to appreciate help from the outside, or whether it will be a source of friction.
Incidentally, there was a very interesting post on daserste board by somebody who likes Olli from back in the day, but doesn't like Christian. He said that to him Christian was somebody who was always trying to please others and that he felt Christian was at an age where he should learn to man up and make decisions on its own.
In his eyes, Christian boxes because that's what his father wanted, he lies about his homosexuality to Gregor because Gregor is having a bad time, he lies about it in the boxing stable because Olli told him to and now turns down the steroids because that's what Olli wants him to do, not because he makes the decisions himself.
It's actually pretty funny to think of Christian who constantly flies into people's face about everything as somebody who always goes with what everybody else says, but it is an interesting POV.
Of course I tend to think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. For example, I'm pretty sure Christian would have turned down the steroids on his own even if it might have taken a bit longer soul searching to do it. Not to mention, there is a difference between letting others run your life and make decisions for you and just listening to what others have to say. Not to mention, it's not wrong to consider whether your decisions might hurt others. Of course you can't do it to the extent where you start hurting yourself, but it's a good thing to give it some consideration.
I didn't think that whole steroids thing was controlling either. It just seemed to be a thing that hit a nerve will Olli, so he spoke up against it passionately. Nothing wrong with that. Even back then in his "bad" days getting away from anything connected to drugs was something he wanted very quickly. So I don't have a hard time picturing having strong feelings on the subject. I'm sure he would react in a similar way if it was Olivia instead of Christian and going by how much shit Olivia pulls all the time that Olli doesn't even notice he definitely isn't controlling about her.
(but again, whether Olli IS controling or whether Christian PERCEIVES him as controlling are potentially two different things)
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 8:22:58 GMT -5
I /agree with you all:
1: Christian is boxing because of lingering guilt/compulsions from his father. It's obvious he likes Sport and should be in school for this as he's a natural athlete, etc. But the boxing doesn't seem to be his thing. I hope this means he finally realizes it and decides, for himself, that enough is enough . It would be a disaster for Olli to even suggest on any level for him to give this up---it would be controlling as you guys say.
2: Ok, Olli is over-reacting a bit, methinks. Chris gave his word, saying: No, of course I won't do this. That should've ended it, right there, IMO. So, he's telling the truth: no, not guilty, I just knew how you'd react if you saw this (paraphrase). Rather than extracting a promise from Chris, Olli should apologize and tell him: you gave your word, that's good enough for me.
3: I think lolaruns is right: this is the opening out, down-the-line, for Chris to get out of boxing professionally. Perhaps he will reach a point where he feels he's satisfied any sort of obligation he feels towards his father's dream. Then, he can say: well, I did my best; that will have to do.
4: gast48: yes! a controller-type can't allow his partner such secrets as those would be outside of his control. I agree.
5: Yeah, the vernacular had me scratching my head, as well. But, I must admit it's more reflective of Real Life. I work with people in this age group and must say they tend to swear more often and with greater degree than my generation. All this makes the scenes more authentic, IMO.
Thanks once again to our awesome Translation Team. We love you dearly!
Geoff
|
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 8:29:55 GMT -5
Though originally Christian told Olli that boxing used to make him happy and he had to give it up when he went to prison. Which doesn't mean that that can't be rewritten/the so called opening be placed on top of it. After all Christian's original dream from Coco times was to own a store that sells sport stuff, then he graduated to wishing he could teach sports (sport university) (though pre-Olli it seems that he was dishearted by the thought that it might not be possible for him with his priors, so maybe he thought the sport store was a more feasible goal [/fanwank]) and now boxing. Who knows what it will be next  |
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 8:49:11 GMT -5
Aye, which is why I think the story should shift towards one where Christian tries to clear his good name. Of course, to do that, he'd have to allow his father's reputation to suffer. He might not be ready for that, yet.
But, if he does, then the way is clear to either teach, do the shop thing or whatever else. I can only hope that, sometime later, boxing goes out the window. heh
Geoff
|
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 8:53:37 GMT -5
I don't think that they'll ever do a storyline like that, clear his name I mean. For one, Christian holds his dad on pedestal. He totally freaked out at Gregor and even punched him when Gregor and him argued about their father's death and even said Gregor shouldn't speak ill of the dead.
On the other side, I think it's just part of Christian's angsty character make-up that he is the guy with a chip on his shoulder. So I don't think that the writers have any interest in taking that away.
|
|
andru
New Member
Posts: 96
|
Post by andru on May 30, 2008 9:00:49 GMT -5
I don't believe Olli is controlling. We've never seen that type of behaviour from him, at least not with Christian. I think he shows great concern and love for Christian. In fact, unselfish love. He is so willing to keep their relationship a secret. And for what? Not for his own sake but for Christian's sake. I love Olli's character and his characteristics. I think he is just what the doctor ordered for Christian. I think Christian knows this too. We have already seen how Olli is able to manage Christian's emotions and behaviour. That's not controlling. That's being "in tune" with the one you love. That's my opinion (my two cents). That's exactly what I think. Couldn't have said it better!!!^^ I do think that Olli maybe redeems himself a bit too much for Christian. To me he seems like somebody who always does a bit more for the relationship and who's the more active one, but attributes like that don't have to be bad. And often in a relationship there's one partner who loves a bit more intense than the other and keeps the whole thing going. For it's Christian's firts relationship with a man it seems to be quite natural to me that Olli is this person. That's a kind of Yin & Yang aspect in their relationship and maybe it has to be this way. |
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 9:19:35 GMT -5
Yeah, resolving those plot hooks would mean, well, less plot hooks to use. That would fly in the face of the typical soap-writer, I guess.
;D
Geoff
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 11:36:16 GMT -5
I really love her as well---She tells it like it is. I mean, come on! How bold is it to say: But, of course, you're such a loser you'd probably get caught anyway!
LOL
Of course, it's also irritating for her to speak like that to Christian. We'd never speak like this in the South (USA) to anyone unless we were in the midst of an ill-mannered fight. We would conceal our true opinions with a veneer of cordiality and proper manners. So we were taught. Only in the most provocative confrontation would we say something like that and even then, it wouldn't be stated so clearly. Perhaps that's one of the reason I love Olivia: she speaks out in a manner I could never do myself.
Geoff
|
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 11:43:26 GMT -5
I love Olivia because she is just an unstoppable force on nature. I keep thinking that one day she'll get in with the wrong guy or gal and somebody till bash her head in but then I think, no, it's not possible. You just can't get Olivia down. She would ALWAYS think of a way to sneak out of it. It doesn't matter how many horrible things she does, she always finds a way out of it. And that's okay because she isn't truly evil the way soap opera villains are normally evil.
She's just... Scarlett O'Hara on acid.
She will never truly win, but she'll never get beaten down. She always gets caught in her schemes, but she always gets back up and she never gets caught permanently. I don't think she will never allow herself more than a glimpse of true humanity. I don't think that she'll ever find true love on the show, but her shield of self protection is her complete and utter selfish conceitedness.
Even if we don't necessarily wish we were her, we kinda wish we had a friend like her so we could send her after the people we hate ;D
|
|
restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
|
Post by restenergy on May 30, 2008 12:05:32 GMT -5
She's just... Scarlett O'Hara on acid.  That's a wonderful, and wonderfully bizarre, description of her, Lola! |
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 20:34:01 GMT -5
She's just... Scarlett O'Hara on acid. That's a wonderful, and wonderfully bizarre, description of her, Lola! *grins* Yes, you've got her pegged, lola. What Scarlet might've said on acid. Yes.  Geoff |
|
|
|
Post by psionycx on May 31, 2008 0:05:07 GMT -5
Of course, it's also irritating for her to speak like that to Christian. We'd never speak like this in the South (USA) to anyone unless we were in the midst of an ill-mannered fight. We would conceal our true opinions with a veneer of cordiality and proper manners. So we were taught. Only in the most provocative confrontation would we say something like that and even then, it wouldn't be stated so clearly. Perhaps that's one of the reason I love Olivia: she speaks out in a manner I could never do myself. Geoff, you've just explained to me why Ann Coulter is so beloved amongst southern conservatives. I'd never been able to figure out why people so prim and traditional would so adore a vampish vixen who does nothing but insult people. God I love it when a piece of the puzzle clicks into place! ;D Olli has a caregiver type personality so he needs to feel like he's doing something for the people he loves. It's why he's loyal to Olivia despite her being such a bitch, and especially why he's so devoted to Charlie. Remember that he stayed in Dusseldorf out of concern for her. So with Christian it's much the same. And Christian basks in it because, as he said by the campfire, he'd like to know someone cares about him. Maybe it's because his father was so unreliable. When his father was focused on him it made it all the more special. Christian said this is why he loved camping with his dad. Christian loves being cared for by Olli, even when he rants against it his protests ring a little false. That last shot of his face as the clip closed (and we all know how well Thore uses his face) implied to me that Christian wasn't as angry to be having this argument as he was trying to seem. Like that it meant something to him that Olli was willing to argue about something like the steroids. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepiefarm on May 31, 2008 4:18:06 GMT -5
So with Christian it's much the same. And Christian basks in it because, as he said by the campfire, he'd like to know someone cares about him. Maybe it's because his father was so unreliable. When his father was focused on him it made it all the more special. Christian said this is why he loved camping with his dad. Christian loves being cared for by Olli, even when he rants against it his protests ring a little false. That last shot of his face as the clip closed (and we all know how well Thore uses his face) implied to me that Christian wasn't as angry to be having this argument as he was trying to seem. Like that it meant something to him that Olli was willing to argue about something like the steroids. IMO Christian has a bit of difficulty trusting that Olli could love him so much. He's been constantly let down in the past - his father, Nico didn't believe him and even Coco kissed Olli and he only found that out by chance. When he overheard Olli talking to Olivia, I think it brought home just how much Olli does actually love him ( and as we know that is hugely important to him) and (I think) what made him stop and rethink about the steroids. |
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 31, 2008 4:38:07 GMT -5
As not pleasant as it is. I think underneath it all Christian still has huge self image problems and hence is probably over compensating. Maybe he feels that he has disappointed his father by being gay (remember Gregor's words in Christian's dream) and now he tries to make up for it by instead making the boxing dream come true as fast as possible at any cost. Otherwise, why would it be so horrible for him to wait another couple of years?
|
|
|
|
Post by ivaniv on May 31, 2008 5:03:19 GMT -5
I think that Christian did not realise why Olli is shouting at him, right at that moment he was standing between him and his dream. He may have some unresolved issues with his father and tries to overcompensate, but that's quite common and nothing that I would call a huge problem. He wanted doping because he's very competitive too. And he was a loser and a joke for the others because he did not cheat. When he overheard Olli talking with Olivia he realised there are things that are more important than success for whatever price. And the solution he came up with is actually great, because they'll be together and he'll benefit from Olli not turning into a couch potato, too BTW I'd love to see Olli on Monday walking the way like Judith did when she came back home working the whole day at a building site ;D |
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on May 31, 2008 5:24:32 GMT -5
The thing is, was Christian really competitive before? Because to me it seemed that before he mostly an average who was grappling with his prison rep and wanted people who accepted him.
Heck, this is probably the first time he has had something to be competitive over. Maybe he has had the scent off potential success for the first time.
It's possible that he had this competitiveness before and that going to prison just really lowered his expecations of what he could have in life. Before now, he had more of a history of not doing things, he wouldn't have signed up for sport university if it hadn't been for Coco and Olli, he probably would have let it slide and just told himself it was impossible. There was a time with Coco when both Coco and Christian were unhappy because because of their jobs they never had time with each other and Christian suggested that maybe this was a sign that he should quit his job with Gregor, get a loan and try to open a sport shop. But of course the thing sort of petered out and they never did anything about it.
So maybe Christian has every reason to want to competitive. Maybe on some level he thinks he needs to make up for all the life he lost out on because of jail.
Still. Kinda unhealthy. Particularly to want it in three months and consider yourself a failure otherwise and tie all of that back to daddy and shame.
|
|
|
|
Post by sheepiefarm on May 31, 2008 9:37:35 GMT -5
The thing is, was Christian really competitive before? Still. Kinda unhealthy. Particularly to want it in three months and consider yourself a failure otherwise and tie all of that back to daddy and shame. I seem to remember when he was "trying out" (can't think how else to describe it at the mo) for the college he was getting really frustrated at his false starts. Okay plotline to tie in with his mind on Olli and not on the running I know, but could link to a competetive nature & Gregor says something like how good he usually is at it? IMO the timeline for the boxing is just a soap storytelling quirk to facilitate current plot. |
|
aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by aldebaran on May 31, 2008 14:25:50 GMT -5
Have I already said that I'm in love? ;D  If a guy looked at you like this, wouldn't you fall in love as well? * faints* |
|
|
|
Post by ivaniv on Jun 1, 2008 10:06:26 GMT -5
You have to be competitive if you want to do sports like boxing. But in Christian's case there was always something that got higher priority and he had to give up both on boxing and studying sports. OK, you could call that a lack of competitiveness (is that a word?) that there's a price he won't pay... He has Oliver to thank to inspire him again. And I guess that's why he may feel he has to achieve everything quickly, because he waited so long, he's just excited about finally doing what he wanted and waiting for another 2-3 years was just too much. I would not call the shrink yet  |
|
|
|
Post by psionycx on Jun 1, 2008 11:58:55 GMT -5
You have to be competitive if you want to do sports like boxing. But in Christian's case there was always something that got higher priority and he had to give up both on boxing and studying sports. OK, you could call that a lack of competitiveness (is that a word?) that there's a price he won't pay... He has Oliver to thank to inspire him again. And I guess that's why he may feel he has to achieve everything quickly, because he waited so long, he's just excited about finally doing what he wanted and waiting for another 2-3 years was just too much. I would not call the shrink yet Olli does seem to have awakened Christian to living his dreams. I think that this accounts for a lot of the strength of Christian's feelings towards Olli. The thing you want most in a partner is for them to make you feel like you're somebody special. Thus Christian doesn't seemed perturbed at having such a packed schedule of work, school, boxing and listening to Judith lament her love triangle (okay, maybe the last item does annoy him). He feels like his life is on the right track and he has a partner who supports and encourages him. Plus he has the lingering Daddy thing going on. After years of no forward movement in his life he feels like he can achieve what his father thought he could. You have to be impressed at his devotion to his dad all things considered. But the steroid thing certainly becomes an obstacle because the competition in this sport cheats, making success harder for a fair-minded person. Especially since, as you noted Ivan, Christian has waited so long to finally get into the game. |
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jun 1, 2008 12:19:00 GMT -5
I think before he met Olli, there was a certain "low expectations" vibe about Christian. Don't get me wrong, he seems to have some pretty firm ideas about some mimimum standards. But other than that it seems that while he had dreams (big romantic love, a job connected to sports), he was afraid to dream big and seemed to brush off a lot of things because he was convinced that they were impossible to achieve.
He dropped his idea pretty quickly because he couldn't get a loan because of his priors (I think that was the reason, though I might be remembering it wrong, LOL, maybe he just got distracted). He was so convinced that he couldn't go to sport university because of him being an ex-con that apparently he didn't even bother to check whether that was really true.
His relationships with Nico and Coco also had a certain low key/small relationship type of troubles feel to them. So maybe he thought that that was love or that was how love/relationships were supposed to work before Olli came and showed him that it is possible to have more than that.
|
|
aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by aldebaran on Jun 1, 2008 12:20:18 GMT -5
Aldebaran, if a guy looked at me like that I would hook the ball-and-chain to him and not let him look at another guy. ;D Be careful, Roddieb, you're walking in a mined field! Besides, you're cheating on Christian, shame on you! ;D |
|
