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Post by tihkon2 on May 29, 2008 18:37:50 GMT -5
Just wanted to clarify:
Christian calling Olli "mom" in today's epi wasn't indicative to me that there's a "control issue" underlying the relationship or Christian resents Olli or anything like that. Sometimes a snarky "Mom" is just a snarky "Mom" ;D
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Post by Princess Ollian on May 29, 2008 18:38:24 GMT -5
Sooooooooooo glad to have more episodes featuring a C&O storyline - missed those guys!! Sheepie, latest ep will be worth the wait...!!
And yeah - it is very common over here to call someone Mum in a sarky way if they are lecturing you a la blah blah blah...
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keie
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by keie on May 29, 2008 18:40:04 GMT -5
Yeah, it's definatly IMO just Christian's way of saying, "I'm not stupid! I'm just weighing my options". I don't think it's meant to have any kind of deep meaning.
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Post by sheepiefarm on May 29, 2008 18:41:14 GMT -5
Just wanted to clarify: Christian calling Olli "mom" in today's epi wasn't indicative to me that there's a "control issue" underlying the relationship or Christian resents Olli or anything like that. Sometimes a snarky "Mom" is just a snarky "Mom" ;D Okay Mom ;D
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Post by nanna on May 29, 2008 18:42:11 GMT -5
YouTube's down right now, so it'll be a few hours till the video will be up. Sorry! I'm off to bed now. An old woman like me has to pace herself or she won't be able to do tomorrow's (or rather today's) episode.
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Post by gastLXXXIV on May 29, 2008 18:43:33 GMT -5
Similarly here, Roddieb. Everyone predictably calls everyone else "Mom" (regardless of actual kinship or lack thereof) when it's a question of unwelcome advice--or advice offered too aggressively.
I agree with you, Sheepie, about this episode--have watched the unsubbed version 3 times--even though it's painful watching C suffer a mild concussion over and over--Olli restrained from coming to his aid--and no one else particularly concerned . . .
I think too, we're pleased, of course, to have attention turned back to C&O's story rather than watching them yet again serve as foils / big-brother figures for Judith.
Re Charlie, it were incredible that, at this point--much earlier actually--she not know--whereby I mean to say, surely the writers would expect us to assume she does.
After all, she was Olli's confidante all along, understood so well and sympathetically how miserable he was, was clearly concerned for him -- and then, of course, he suddenly recovered his zest for life as well as self-esteem--which, of course, she would have sensed.
And I assume their assumption would be, too, that we suppose he and she have talked about it.
For me that sort of scene--and especially some such heartfelt conversation between C & O after they got together--where they tell each other of their feelings, what it's meant to them to have gotten through the ordeal with a good outcome, and what they mean to each other--would be among the most gratifying to watch--assuming sensitively written--and I have confidence in the VL team!
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j9l45
Junior Member
Posts: 622
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Post by j9l45 on May 29, 2008 19:10:08 GMT -5
I find it quite interesting how a simple word can get people debating its relative meaning. "Relative" being to each culture. The word mom is "relative"? LOL Please tell me that was intentional.
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mgh48
Junior Member
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Post by mgh48 on May 29, 2008 19:23:55 GMT -5
I'm from Canada and we often refer to someone as "mom" in a very sarcastic manner if someone is treating us like a child and treating us as if they know what's best for us and that we don't know ourselves. Much in the same way that Olli was talking to Christian as if Olli KNEW that doping (steroids) are just no good. The "mom" reference is like a statement saying "Yeah, yeah, I know what you are saying. You think I'm stupid or something?" Just a Newfoundlander's two cents. (Don't ask me what my "two cents" means. We had that in a previous discussion.) Yeah, that's our take on the phrase down here in Southern US: I think Christian means: "You're insinuating that I don't have enough sense to figure this out myself, gee, thanks!" It's not a control issue, it's a perception issue, IMO. Olli should've just stuck with asking Christian not to start steroids and then rely on him keeping his word. Hey, we all make mistakes when the heart is involved. PS: edited to clarify that I was trying to explain the 'mom' sentence in the way we would take it here in the Southern US. Geoff
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Post by Bonobochick on May 29, 2008 19:41:52 GMT -5
Charlie so knows. I liked seeing the concern and panic that Olli went through seeing Christian hurt after getting clocked in the ring. Moments like that make me appreciate how their relationship plays out; that it's not just about lust/sex but deep emotions between them. The physical intimacy is nice, but the emotional intimacy is even better. Count me in as another who could follow the German until the fight, and then it was like every 7th word... kinda Olivia and Christian so amuse me. Olli may never get his fondest wish of them getting along with each other but I totally enjoy them snarking at each other. ;D I am usually off in an Igor induced haze but I have to comment on a shallow level that Jo looked exceptionally good today. The lighting, the outfits... everything was working well for him.
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Post by psionycx on May 29, 2008 20:17:14 GMT -5
Okay, no way is it just an accident that the writers threw in that mom bit/indicating that Olli is too controlling. And heh, we were just talking before how it would totally come down to daddy issues and voila, here they are. Makes me think that the casting of Wolle as a similar type (physically) as Christian's dad was also intentional. Is Olli really controlling? I was re-watching yesterday's clips (such a chore I know) and I was thinking about Christian's outburst in the second one. When he comes into No Limits fuming Olli just kind of gives him a questioning thumbs up and Christian responds by shaking his head. Olli then excuses himself from Charlie and goes to Christian, who is standing there clearly expecting Olli to come. Christian then leads him up to the flat. It's obvious that Christian expected that Olli would be okay leaving the bar and Charlie in order to go upstairs and listen to him vent his frustrations. His expectation was absolutely correct because Olli immediately came when Christian wanted him. One could argue that this wasn't a real case of immediate need because all Christian wanted was to air his anger over the boxing/doping situation. But Olli responded immediately. This was a great example of Christian wanting something from Olli and Olli giving it without question. In this case moral support and reassurance. It's apparent that Christian doesn't really want to start using steroids and that he's looking for validation of his indignation at Wolle's suggestion he do so. Olli came running the instant Christian wanted him, so that suggests that Olli does not dominate the relationship. Christian can yank the leash too when he wants to. After getting KO'd Christian is clearly feeling insecure and again it's about Olli fulfilling his emotional needs. His confidence has taken a hit (along with his face) and again Olli has to play caregiver (which is Olli's personality type). Olli is insistent, but he's smart enough to know that he has to be when dealing with an emotional Christian. Christian's the kind of guy who sometimes does very reactionary things and Olli knows that he might go ahead and start doping to overcompensate for his humiliation. Gregor also knows what a handful Christian can be and he's often very assertive in dealing with him too. Heck, they've had at least one fist fight that we've seen in back clips! The light touch and subtlety doesn't seem to work well with the younger Mann. He requires more of an in-your-face approach. Is that controlling? Or just a requirement for managing someone as tempermental as Christian?
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Post by adrianvh82 on May 29, 2008 21:42:09 GMT -5
Guys, I simply love to hear your opinions, comments and interpretations about Olliver and Christian relationship. Sometimes a think I like as much to hear what people see in their history as I like to watch the course it will follow on TV… (and I hope I expressed myself in terms that you might understand…English is not one of my strengths…)
I studied cinema and that’s fantastic, it shows art has a life of it own in the eyes of every person that sees it (ohhh that was cheesy, but I am kind of cheesy today….hehehh)
Thanks again Nanna and Ivan for allowing the whole globe to do it!!!
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neand48
Full Member
'It isn't about who has the power or who doesn't, but the power you share when you love each other.'
Posts: 1,154
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Post by neand48 on May 29, 2008 22:22:56 GMT -5
When these guys have scenes like this, for me, everything just stops! - even my breath.... Don't stop breathing too long my friend, what would we do without you, eh?
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Post by lolaruns on May 29, 2008 22:49:56 GMT -5
Let me put this way, after Ollian transpired and we went back to view the whole story, how many things made us think "Ah, they were building it up and dropping hints back then". I don't think that their relationship is in trouble, yet, but I think it's entirely feasible that they are laying out the seeds that if they are arguing 3 months from now, maybe people will look back and go, ahhhhhh, darn. Does the mom mean something for them as characters right now? No, not a lot. But it could easily be indicative of the direction they intend to go in the future. A soap opera writer can decides what scenes and what words to put in and the fact that they put in this makes me think It's funny, precisely the scene you referenced, about Christian coming in looking for Olli and Olli going "Oh dear, little emergency" to Charlie prompted me to say "No, don't talk about C like he is a kid" (meaning that it sounded a bit like "Ooops, gotta go up and pacify the baby") in the previous ep's topic. And of course there is me thinking that Olli stopping C from outing himself is a really intrusive thing in a "let me show you how to run your life" kind of way. Again, doesn't mean that it's mean spirited at all. Olli explained himself, Olli was right, Christian agreed with him eventually. And it's a similar situation here now. Sure Olli is right. But isn't that where the most real feeling arguments come from, where both sides have a point. And how often does it happen in life where you know you are right and you still should keep your mouth shut because to speak up in certain situations would strike the concerned people as you being know it all or intrusive? (btw, beautiful irony that in one of his return interviews when they asked Jo what had happened to Olli in the last 5 years off screen he said that on the ship Olli became mature and learned to get himself a bit more of a protective shell and finally learn to stop being everybody's caregiver. "Before Olli used to be a type who at every problem would sit down and say "Oh my god, you are not well, tell me your problems" (laughs) In that way he's become a bit freer")
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neand48
Full Member
'It isn't about who has the power or who doesn't, but the power you share when you love each other.'
Posts: 1,154
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Post by neand48 on May 29, 2008 22:55:23 GMT -5
The MOM issue. Nice stiff drink - *holds glass* Carefully considers all possible angles - *scratches his head* Renders verdict: "You are all right." - *briefly marvels at Solomon-like wisdom*
Then dares to raise a most important question: 2 pfennig's worth ~ 2 cents worth ~ yuppence worth ~ what's the Euro equivalent?
On a more serious note... Hey roddieb have you been hiding in Labrador? Missed you Newfoundlander boy.
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Post by lolaruns on May 29, 2008 23:12:59 GMT -5
We got Cent now too with the Euro. ETA: Just watched the rest of the episode. Whoa, sex voiced Judith coming on to Fabian was really creepy.
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restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
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Post by restenergy on May 29, 2008 23:29:07 GMT -5
Charlie so knows. I liked seeing the concern and panic that Olli went through seeing Christian hurt after getting clocked in the ring. Moments like that make me appreciate how their relationship plays out; that it's not just about lust/sex but deep emotions between them. The physical intimacy is nice, but the emotional intimacy is even better. Absolutely, Bonobochick! You've hit the nail on the head. I understood only a few words of the German, so I'm going entirely on the visual of their interaction, but that emotional intimacy really comes through. I do really like the physical intimacy. I also like the everyday little bits of physical closeness (the things that seem more mundane, but still important, short of the kisses and caresses and the like). But all these things would be somewhat empty without the emotional intimacy between Olli and Christian. This being a soap opera, we know that sometime in the future they will split or leave. But I think that they have a real foundation for their relationship here. I don't really worry about it. I don't think it's doomed to failure, whatever the flaws of either character. And on that, I'd also like to thank Psionycx for his post. I've not been all that comfortable with the idea that there is a controlling aspect to Olli. Maybe it's because I just like Olli a whole lot, but it hasn't really rung true for me. The emotional intimacy we saw in today's clip, and the example from yesterday, really does suggest to me a deeper and more mutual connection between them.
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Post by lolaruns on May 29, 2008 23:43:36 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. Maybe it's the soap watcher in me, but there is no way I'm gonna consider Olli controlling as long as he doesn't start secretly poisoning Christian's drinks, plots to steal his baby or does any sort of similar nefarious soap opera things. Anything he does at the moment barely fullfills the demands of squabbling. Though there might be a difference between what I/we consider controlling and what Christian consideres undue invasion of his decision making process. That said, poor Olli, I think it's slowly start to REALLY sink in that having a boxing boyfriend might not be all that awesome after all (more because of the constant worrying about him rather than because of the hiding).
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Post by jsg03jd on May 29, 2008 23:51:47 GMT -5
I agree. It's kinda like dating a cop or a firefighter. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but being a boxer carries with it a high risk of injury, even possible comatose depending on how a fight goes or some long term neurological problems for the fighter. Olli has every reason to worry about his Christian's passion to become the best boxer he could be because it comes with a very high physical price that has nothing to do with keeping their relationship on the downlow.
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mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
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Post by mgh48 on May 30, 2008 0:04:29 GMT -5
Olli would be 'controlling', IMO, if he began to insist that Christian give up boxing. That would be an terrible attempt to control. I have had something similar happen to me: my first boyfriend was obsessed with business to the point where he was bragging about making his 'first' million before he was such-and-such age. Fine and good; but not enough for him when it came to me. I am an artist/musician and was studying both at the time. Eventually, he started insinuating that I need to focus on business and even went so far as to complain when I bought a new guitar.
THAT's 'controlling' to me. Olli hasn't done anything like that, so far. I think it's perfectly logical for someone to insist, to make clear that using steroids for this purpose--legal or otherwise---should never be considered. That shows you care about someone, really care, IMO.
Geoff
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Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 0:18:26 GMT -5
Though it seems like he is almost overcompensating in the other direction.
I have to say, I wonder if today's convo about dear old dead dad didn't provide a future opening for Christian to eventually give up boxing down the line. If he realizes one day that he is only doing it for his father and not because he truly loves it himself.
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Post by ivaniv on May 30, 2008 1:02:31 GMT -5
That's what I was thinking. Is he really doing it for himself or because his father would like that... And I do not find Olli controlling or manipulative either. We joke about Christian never freaking out, but now it was Olli's turn when he heard Christian is considering doping. Any person that cares would, you do not stop and think what would give the best results, you just react on the spot.
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Post by nanna on May 30, 2008 2:13:01 GMT -5
After two false starts the subtitled video's finally up: Many, many thanks to the usual suspects!
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Post by lolaruns on May 30, 2008 2:41:08 GMT -5
Heh, I remember when I was watching the clip I was wondering what you would do about Fallobst. Roadkill is a great choice. Love it. Random: I love the way Christian pronounces "chat" like "schett".
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Post by harmonium on May 30, 2008 4:22:05 GMT -5
Well, I think when Christian called Ollie "Mom", I think it's more of implying Ollie being naggy rather than controlling. Afterall, Ollie did everything out of concern. I think Christian will know that, afterall, Ollie is there for him whenever he needed him. He should be grateful. And also, it's great to see them finally at the foreground, at least for now. And a little bump in their relationship is to see and test whether they can make it through together and thus in turn make their relationship stronger and to show that they are not fluff or something. Thanks again to IvanIV and nana!
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Post by Princess Ollian on May 30, 2008 7:43:04 GMT -5
Heh, I remember when I was watching the clip I was wondering what you would do about Fallobst. Roadkill is a great choice. Love it. Agreed! Roadkill was a good call!! I had no idea...! Was thinking like mouldy fruit or something?? Also, I didn't realise the extent that German TV shows were allowed to show characters using swearwords... When I heard Christian tell Olivia to "verpiss dich" - will admit that I was a bit shocked! That would be a total no no over here before 9pm...!! I have also learnt it as both "fuck you/off" and "piss off" - which would our resident German fraternity agree with?? Apologies for the swearing, but is purely for educational purposes...
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