kira
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Post by kira on Sept 28, 2011 16:19:29 GMT -5
I did like a comment on the German board where somebody pointed out that when you run somebody over with a car turning yourself in is the least you can do/should be the normal thing to do and not something you should get special praise for. It should be self evident. Of course it´s not something you should get praise for and she should have done it right away. But I still think it is brave to report yourself to the police after you have done something horrible like Helena. It´s obvious that it will have very serius consequences for her and she will loose people she loves because of her deed. So her behaviour is brave while at the same time the only right thing to do. (Sorry, don´t know how to say it ohterwise. ) Then there is the fact that the show has shown us how much Helena has suffered from the beginning of the accident and the fact that Andi still loves her. All of that shows me that Christian´s opinion about her certainly wasn´t supposed to be the wrong one while Olli´s was supposed to be the right one. I think both sides concerning the accident are understandable. Nothing like, Christian the idiot sees everything wrong again.
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robin1
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Post by robin1 on Sept 28, 2011 16:19:48 GMT -5
but olli was thinking on an end... i would think on all kinds of memories... the good and the bad ones... and i would think about changes... i mean he now lives and work with jessica so i cant understand why he blamed his husband for something no one knows what happened.
that soccer scene from last weeks seems even more meaningless after ollis reaction on andi suggestion to invite christian...
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 16:22:28 GMT -5
I know that Christian and Olli should not have fought in front of poor Nico, but I don't think Olli overreacted at all. Olli is still angry and hurt over the whole situation with Christian and he feels that Christian was taking Helena's side. Plus in Olli's mind he was blaming himself for Philip's accident, when Helena was the one at fault and she never said anything. And just because Helena confessed doesn't make the act that she did any better, like Olli telling Christian that just because he confessed right away what he did with Jessica doesn't get him any points cause the act that he did was so much worse. But Christian never said that what Helena did was good, just that given the conseqeunces, it took a lot for her to turn herself in. And it did given her father's pressure.
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kira
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Post by kira on Sept 28, 2011 16:25:04 GMT -5
I thought it was very sweet how they both supported their friend Dana and that Olli finished telling her what Christian started to say. Their surprised smiles at each other when they realized they both wanted to say the same things to her. It shows that they still see a lot of things the same way and can still be there for their friends as a team.
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robin1
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Post by robin1 on Sept 28, 2011 16:26:22 GMT -5
but christian was right: that accident would never been solved if helena didnt go to the police. cant find any wrong with this. why is he now the bad one too?! what did the other expect?! that she'll keep the secret for her own?!
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Sept 28, 2011 16:32:14 GMT -5
I know that Christian and Olli should not have fought in front of poor Nico, but I don't think Olli overreacted at all. Olli is still angry and hurt over the whole situation with Christian and he feels that Christian was taking Helena's side. Plus in Olli's mind he was blaming himself for Philip's accident, when Helena was the one at fault and she never said anything. And just because Helena confessed doesn't make the act that she did any better, like Olli telling Christian that just because he confessed right away what he did with Jessica doesn't get him any points cause the act that he did was so much worse. But Christian never said that what Helena did was good, just that given the conseqeunces, it took a lot for her to turn herself in. And it did given her father's pressure. Yes I know Christian never said that what Helena did was good, it's just that Olli was angry cause he feels like so what if Helena confessed now or later, she still lied to Andi and all her friends and Olli feels like Christian was saying she was brave for confessing at all, when she shouldn't get praise for confessing, cause what she did was so awful. Like Christian shouldn't get praise for confessing about Jessica. It's sort of like so the hell what if you confess, doesn't hurt any less.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 16:33:19 GMT -5
I did like a comment on the German board where somebody pointed out that when you run somebody over with a car turning yourself in is the least you can do/should be the normal thing to do and not something you should get special praise for. It should be self evident. Of course it´s not something you should get praise for and she should have done it right away. But I still think it is brave to report yourself to the police after you have done something horrible like Helena. It´s obvious that it will have very serius consequences for her and she will loose people she loves because of her deed. So her behaviour is brave while at the same time the only right thing to do. (Sorry, don´t know how to say it ohterwise. ) Then there is the fact that the show has shown us how much Helena has suffered from the beginning of the accident and the fact that Andi still loves her. All of that shows me that Christian´s opinion about her certainly wasn´t supposed to be the wrong one while Olli´s was supposed to be the right one. I think both sides concerning the accident are understandable. Nothing like, Christian the idiot sees everything wrong again. I need a thumbs up symbol. You said that so much better than I did.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 16:38:21 GMT -5
But Christian never said that what Helena did was good, just that given the conseqeunces, it took a lot for her to turn herself in. And it did given her father's pressure. Yes I know Christian never said that what Helena did was good, it's just that Olli was angry cause he feels like so what if Helena confessed now or later, she still lied to Andi and all her friends and Olli feels like Christian was saying she was brave for confessing at all, when she shouldn't get praise for confessing, cause what she did was so awful. Like Christian shouldn't get praise for confessing about Jessica. It's sort of like so the hell what if you confess, doesn't hurt any less. Good thing the courts don't think the way that Olli does. If you confess they tend to be more lenant on you then if you don't. At least that's the way it is in the states. It might have been bad, but you do give the person their do for the good act in the bad thing. She supported Nico through everything. She could have just disappeared on some arceological dig or something, but she didn't.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 28, 2011 16:47:22 GMT -5
Hey, I didn't say anything about the meta level. IMO if anything the comment about it not being praiseworthy is a commentary on the show that acts like Helena is a big hero and martyr and when it should be a Selbstverständlichkeit to turn yourself in. On a soap particularly on VL her actions actually DO make her quite unusual since most crimes (like Ansgar and Tanja's various attempts to kill each other) stay covered up/stay "in the family". But in real life it would send a pretty crappy message to say that runaway drivers should be celebrated as tragic heroes when they turn themselves in. In a real life way that shouldn't even be talked about, it should be obvious that the only principled thing is to turn yourself in and you should do so immediately. IMO on the show the show sides with Helena and most people actually are on her side. Tristan and Ludwig obviously, Elisabeth is also full of pity for Helena and mainly mad at Ludwig for making her lie, Hagen and Sebastian kinda thumbed their noses at her but mostly ignore what happened/close ranks anyway, Andi just more or less confessed he can't hate her for what happened and still loves her and based on Dana's words I would gather that also is all about sympathy for Helena (trying to give Andi the reasons why somebody would lie like that). I'm pretty sure Marlene won't say anything either since she's being paired of with Tristan who is supportive of Helena. If you think about it, the people who are genuinely offended on Nico's behalf are close to zero. Ansgar is offended but he hates the Helena Lahnsteins anyway and seems like he's already trying to instrumentalize Nico for his own gain. So there is... Olli. Maybe Jessica might also be Anti-Helena/Pro-Nico. Not sure if the rest of the Wolf people (Kim, her parents) will even declare themselves. But technically the flatshare people don't know about that yet because they only found out just now and Ludwig's involvement is still a secret from the public. So they couldn't have known from the papers It's the same everywhere I think. But Helena waited 3 months. If this wasn't a soap that would actually give her additional charges for trying to cover up a crime/obstruction (like Ludwig having the car secretly repaired to destroy evidence). Plus to me it leaves a kinda yucky aftertaste to think that if Phil hadn't died, if Helena had "only" griveously injured him she likely wouldn't have turned herself in at all (because on a soap non-death crimes don't count).
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Sept 28, 2011 16:49:10 GMT -5
Yes I know Christian never said that what Helena did was good, it's just that Olli was angry cause he feels like so what if Helena confessed now or later, she still lied to Andi and all her friends and Olli feels like Christian was saying she was brave for confessing at all, when she shouldn't get praise for confessing, cause what she did was so awful. Like Christian shouldn't get praise for confessing about Jessica. It's sort of like so the hell what if you confess, doesn't hurt any less. Good thing the courts don't think the way that Olli does. If you confess they tend to be more lenant on you then if you don't. At least that's the way it is in the states. It might have been bad, but you do give the person their do for the good act in the bad thing. She supported Nico through everything. She could have just disappeared on some arceological dig or something, but she didn't. Yeah but it's not like Helena confessed right away. She committed a hit and run and kept the truth for months, so she doesn't get any points from me, just cause she confess now. And the courts in the states would not be so lenient on a person who lied for months and caused someone death. Basically I don't blame Christian for the way he reacted to the news, but I also understand the way Olli feels. It's Helena I don't have any sympathy for.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 16:56:14 GMT -5
I'm not talking about Helena and what she did. Christian wasn't commenting on what she did or that he wanted her to go scott free. He just made an offhanded remark that it was good of her to turn herself in since she could have gotten away with it.
What she did was terrble and shouldn't be defended, but she must have some kind of consious that she did finally do someting when she didn't have to. I think that's all he was saying. He didn't want to throw her a party.
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robin1
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Post by robin1 on Sept 28, 2011 16:58:59 GMT -5
twatts, im with u on this! and of course: it is brave to go to the police!
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 28, 2011 17:00:58 GMT -5
Well it's all a soap.
But in real life, if you stood next to a person who lost their husband due to a car accident by a close acquaintance, is the first thing you would say really be to commend the driver's personality? As opposed to "I'm sorry your loved one died/I'm sorry it was by somebody you knew".
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Sept 28, 2011 17:02:51 GMT -5
twatts, im with u on this! and of course: it is brave to go to the police! Yeah after months of trying to hide the truth about the accident, yeah real brave of Helena. Plus I don't get all this praising Helena for going to the police, ( after months ), and no sympathy for Nico at all. I mean come on she lost her husband cause of Helena.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 17:04:21 GMT -5
Well it's all a soap. But in real life, if you stood next to a person who lost their husband due to a car accident by a close acquaintance, is the first thing you would say really be to commend the driver's personality? As opposed to "I'm sorry your loved one died/I'm sorry it was by somebody you knew". When it's a friend of all the people in the room, I don't think it would be unusual. Helena was all of their friend.
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 28, 2011 17:07:33 GMT -5
and of course: it is brave to go to the police! For a hit and run? For that, if you go there immediately you would likely just lose your license (in real life) and that would be it (plus probation). If Helena is in legal trouble then only because she waited so long. Yes she was driving recklessly, but it seems nobody witnessed that, plus the show already acknowledged that Phil had partial responsibility for walking out in the street without looking. Her only legal crime is the runaway driving and she could have claimed shock for that. Only by waiting so long that messed up the shock argument. IMO it's still crappy for VL as a show in a real life kind of way to act like it's so great and awesome. IMO the more responsible thing would be to show it as the hard but normal thing to do. On a soap they kinda pull the meta argument that Helena was "suffering more" because she had to watch Phil die slowly and had to see Nico's pain and grief first hand. So that that was the better/bigger/fairer punishment for her on a cosmic level. But in real life the person you run over would most likely be a stranger and you would just be causing the surviving family pain by them not knowing who did it. (If there's a positive message in this it is along the lines of "Dude, turn yourself in, it's not worth the hassle; you'll just be miserable/become drug addicted; but to me that still puts the emphasis on the feelings of the perpetrator, not on what's best for the victims) So is Nico. Only that Nico just lost her husband. I'm not doubting that Helena is experiencing pain and troubles and challenges of her own (and I actually like Helena and have sympathy for her and think Nico is wrong about a lot of things [only not things that the flatmates know about yet]). Dead husband/love of her life who she personally nursed for for serveral months and whose machines she had to switch off just recently totally trumps that. IMO even in those cases where it is understandable (like Andi) I think it's kinda dickish of the show that nearly everyone immediately jumps to thinking about what Helena is doing/going through while Nico is ignored (I'm thinking about Dana here particularly). Not to mention it would at lot better and more balanced if one could at least have both, that there would be equally as many people whose first reaction is to jump to Nico's side. Actually the most logical person would be Marlene if we go with the argument that Dana can identify with Helena because Dana lied about Hagen. By that logic Marlene should be Nico's biggest defender because she should identify with how horrible it is to be lied to and to have been close to the very person who caused your unhappiness. But no, it likely won't happen because Tristan is pro-Helena and no dent can be put in the Tristan/Marlene future ship.
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Post by MercuryMay on Sept 28, 2011 17:23:09 GMT -5
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 17:23:43 GMT -5
I think everyone was shocked at first and knowing Helena couldn't believe that she could do such a thing.
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silviam11
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Love the dimples! And the smile!
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Post by silviam11 on Sept 28, 2011 17:32:33 GMT -5
Thank you, May
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Sept 28, 2011 17:43:21 GMT -5
Thank you MM for the vid and translations. That last scene with Christian and Olli was so very sad. And I like what Dana said that if Olli and Christian didn't love each other still they would not drive each other up the wall like they do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 17:47:58 GMT -5
I for one am more than glad the word divorce is finally being thrown out. I couldn’t care less how trivial the argument that triggered it could be, it’s not like there hasn’t been anything else piling up which more than justifies it. And the flashbacks were a good reminder of it; finally something done right somewhat by the writers. I don’t care if Olli was supposedly being unreasonable in this particular argument, and it’s not like Helena’s silence didn’t affect him more directly than it did Christian (but of course, it’s okay and convenient Christian forgot about it too, show); him bringing up the divorce itself is far from unreasonable. Also, what was so praiseworthy or courageous about Helena confessing after all these months anyway? They certainly could have picked another moment than in front of Nico, but they just found out too about the news, there hadn’t really been time to sit back on it. I know that Christian and Olli should not have fought in front of poor Nico, but I don't think Olli overreacted at all. Olli is still angry and hurt over the whole situation with Christian and he feels that Christian was taking Helena's side. Plus in Olli's mind he was blaming himself for Philip's accident, when Helena was the one at fault and she never said anything. And just because Helena confessed doesn't make the act that she did any better, like Olli telling Christian that just because he confessed right away what he did with Jessica doesn't get him any points cause the act that he did was so much worse. I absolutely agree with this. I have a hard time riding the Helena sympathy train as well. Beyond the still odd taking Jessica in, Olli’s actually showing some self-awareness about it all; he’s still not over the whole thing in regards to Christian after all this time, so why continue to pretend that it’ll miraculously disappear? If anything, his mindset might very understandably be that assuming they get back together, the littlest fit over the smallest detail might bring it all back to him, as today showed, and what kind of relationship would that be? For all the talk about him being unreasonable, he had time to cool down, think and talk calmly (and even apologize, my goodness he’s really done it this time) to Christian about it. I actually appreciate him being ready to get over the status quo after such a realization. Christian looks sad? Well, welcome back to the land of the living and caring! Hallelujah indeed, but it doesn’t make the word divorce any less warranted. Still too little for me. Pulling a sad face is easy. This requires actual work, self-awareness and effort. Much more groundwork to do IMO than showing the most basic of the kind of emotion that should have been present eons ago anyway for me to understand why they should get back together beyond the ‘pretty and in love couple’ recurrent argument (Thanks, Dana!). Christian’s consistently been expecting easiness and acting out (sleeping with someone, acting all smug or punching the bag of invisible emotions) when those expectations met a brick wall. If this isn’t a wake-up call for Christian to actually and truly work at it himself, I don’t know why bother. Thanks a lot for the clip!
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Post by lolaruns on Sept 28, 2011 18:09:23 GMT -5
I'm guessing the point was to show them how bad/out of control their fighting had gotten, so I guess there was storeyline reasoning for it. Because of that it showed that their fighting has an effect on others (not just Nico, but Dana being upset with them, imploring Andi to also say something) and that it can't just be dealt with with a simple "well outsiders should keep their noses out of it" thing.
Oh well, onward the storyline moves.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Sept 28, 2011 18:09:59 GMT -5
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Sept 28, 2011 18:10:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the clip MM
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Post by blaykee on Sept 28, 2011 18:10:55 GMT -5
Good show, thanks MM!! I find it interesting that all of the flashbacks were to fights Olli started, maybe he should look at the common denominator here. The last scene was so sad, especially Christian's face. (i won't bring up again the lack of continuity in the Philip/Olli story)
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