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Post by candyflossuk on Aug 22, 2011 19:26:04 GMT -5
It seems all of Olli’s insecurities have been bursting all over in the last few weeks (starting with the women with his husband issue, then the age issue), and that’s just damn sad. Ever since they came out full force with the demise of his marriage, they tend to drive a lot of his actions. I don’t know where the writers are going with this, but those really need to dealt with at some point, because it’s clear something has been deeply broken here with Olli. Theresa being polite and clued in enough to say hi and then leave? Olli seems to have that effect on people, I guess. And I’m just not as bothered by Theresa as most people seem to be either. She lives at her own beat and at most, she can just be boring for me. Was it really necessary for Christian to speak down on Olli with his “you’re beyond help” line and then smugly strut back to his lover? Was it so difficult to just say “No, of course that’s not what I meant”? That would have at least indicated that it was all coming from a place of caring still, which would be much welcome from a viewer standpoint considering how little Christian has shown on that department. Even something like “C’mon, don’t be paranoid” would have been better IMO. There was a sneer there that was just unnecessary right after Olli’s burst of insecurity, which was obviously detectable considering the conversation before that point was very polite and amicable. Eh, I'm letting that boat sail away. Christian and Charlie sure have become super confidants. Christian patting Olli in the back, like ‘Good job, kid’, after his Charlie talk (in the same day, no less) made me chuckle. I can’t wait for more Charlie-Christian grown up talks about Olli and his poor or acceptable decisions. Overall, I just don’t know what the writers are trying to accomplish here. Is this all I’m supposed to see in Christian from now on? Anyway, I’ll be positive and say that the Christian and Theresa couple’s matching outfits were cute. Jessica fends for herself and Olli is a big enough boy to see right through it. It’s clear her telling him about the market research was a way to try to sway him, but she made a lot of sensible points and caught on to his issues in a much better way than Christian or Charlie for that matter certainly did. I have no desire to coddle Olli as a poor naïve baby or to burn Jessica on a stick as a manipulative devil. Both see the bottom line as was apparent in the episode to me, and it’s up to them to deal with whatever consequences which might come along. Thanks for the clip! Yes I forget to mark my hatred of the 'you're beyond help' line too. In fact Christian only had 4 or 5 lines today and managed to sound like a patronising ass with everyone of them. If he didn't mean that Oli was too old for modelling, what the hell did he mean? I can understand why Oli came to that conclusion, especially given the smug, sneery way Christian was speaking to him. I have no idea whether the lines were meant to sound as patronising as they did but it was really unpleasant to watch because I didn't see any evidence of Christian caring about Oli in the way those lines were delivered....just that he was mocking and judging him. I found his whole dialogue bizarre actually. Who the hell says 'congratulations on your wise decision' to someone, particularly when he himself is making less than wise decisions on a regular basis! All that did was give me an unpleasant image of Christian and Charlie sat around bitching about Oli...
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 22, 2011 19:40:39 GMT -5
It amazes me that Christian was on for all of 1 min of almost 12, yet what is standing out to people is what he said. Everything that Jessica did was fine since Olli was aware of her motiviations. And you wonder why people think you are Chrisaitn haters.
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Post by blaykee on Aug 22, 2011 19:43:02 GMT -5
It amazes me that Christian was on for all of 1 min of almost 12, yet what is standing out to people is what he said. Everything that Jessica did was fine since Olli was aware of her motiviations. And you wonder why people think you are Chrisaitn haters. and Christian even told olli IN WORDS that he misunderstood him. yet its ok for Olli to jump to conclusions.
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silviam11
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Post by silviam11 on Aug 22, 2011 19:49:40 GMT -5
It amazes me that Christian was on for all of 1 min of almost 12, yet what is standing out to people is what he said. Everything that Jessica did was fine since Olli was aware of her motiviations. And you wonder why people think you are Chrisaitn haters. and Christian even told olli IN WORDS that he misunderstood him. yet its ok for Olli to jump to conclusions. That's sad...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 19:56:52 GMT -5
It amazes me that Christian was on for all of 1 min of almost 12, yet what is standing out to people is what he said. Everything that Jessica did was fine since Olli was aware of her motiviations. And you wonder why people think you are Chrisaitn haters. From where I stand, the storyline most people are likely to focus here on, most especially for the future if we are to believe a reunion will/should happen, is going to be Christian and Olli. It makes perfect sense to me that their scenes together, scarce already as they are, stand out to most people, whether positively or negatively. They continuously give me more clues as to whether or not I (and maybe others) should even think of rooting for the couple at one point or another in the future. Same as we could have 10 scenes of Christian with Theresa, and only one with Christian and Olli and I’m fairly certain most people will focus on dissecting the latter. If that's all it takes to be called a Christian hater, well, what can you do? I personally said what I had to say about Jessica, and Olli will handle it as he will, but the bottom line to me is that Christian’s words and actions will always have more impact on Olli at this stage anyway, so I don’t find the focus there disproportionate.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 22, 2011 20:14:10 GMT -5
It amazes me that Christian was on for all of 1 min of almost 12, yet what is standing out to people is what he said. Everything that Jessica did was fine since Olli was aware of her motiviations. And you wonder why people think you are Chrisaitn haters. From where I stand, the storyline most people are likely to focus here on, most especially for the future if we are to believe a reunion will/should happen, is going to be Christian and Olli. It makes perfect sense to me that their scenes together, scarce already as they are, stand out to most people, whether positively or negatively. They continuously give me more clues as to whether or not I (and maybe others) should even think of rooting for the couple at one point or another in the future. Same as we could have 10 scenes of Christian with Theresa, and only one with Christian and Olli and I’m fairly certain most people will focus on dissecting the latter. If that's all it takes to be called a Christian hater, well, what can you do? I personally said what I had to say about Jessica, and Olli will handle it as he will, but the bottom line to me is that Christian’s words and actions will always have more impact on Olli at this stage anyway, so I don’t find the focus there disproportionate. If you only focus on what happens beteen Christian/Oli you are missing the majority of the story. Chrisiatn had no way of knowing that Olli was having age sisues and hence his statement was said without malice. Jessica on the other hand, was completely aware of his issues and used them all against him. These issues and what Jessica siad, cause Olli to react as he did to Chrisian's statement. There are other things at play here and limiting or focusing in on only the Chrisitian/Olli scenes limits your view. But, you do what you want and you see what you want. I chose to focus on how sad Olli was at the end as he looked as his reflection in the tray and you can try and blame Christian all you want, but obviously since he had bought a bottle of hair dye, his age has been a problem for awhile. Also you don't get to determine if a reunion should happen. The writers do.
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pru
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Post by pru on Aug 22, 2011 20:19:35 GMT -5
I agree macari.
What else are we suppose to focus on? Everytime we see Christian interacting with Olli he comes off as unlikeable and a complete asshole saying the most assinine things to him.
I'm suppose to want a reunion sometime in the future between these two? Yeah I don't think so, especially if we keep seeing the same pattern of behavior by Christian with no realizations or growth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 20:33:40 GMT -5
If you only focus on what happens beteen Christian/Oli you are missing the majority of the story. Chrisiatn had no way of knowing that Olli was having age sisues and hence his statement was said without malice. Jessica on the other hand, was completely aware of his issues and used them all against him. These issues and what Jessica siad, cause Olli to react as he did to Chrisian's statement. There are other things at play here and limiting or focusing in on only the Chrisitian/Olli scenes limits your view. Thanks for letting me know, but I guess we’re just not seeing eye to eye here because I don’t see where in either of my posts I’ve written that I don’t pay attention to anything else besides the scene between Olli and Christian. I said that I understand why the focus for most people in an episode on this board would be on a Christian and Olli together scene. I’ve so far pretty much commented on almost if not all episodes so far since the marriage and separation troubles kicked off (and I became more interested), and yes, even episodes where Christian and Olli didn’t interact, which aren’t hard to find these days. I think for this episode I even mentioned Olli’s issues apart from his scene with Christian (in more than one paragraph) and even mentioned Jessica as she relates to Olli. Again, I’m lost because I don’t see where I blamed Christian for all of Olli’s insecurities. I definitely did say that with the demise of his marriage, they came bursting through, which is what I’ve seen happen on screen. If you read my post(s) in entirety, I don’t think I’m the one extrapolating here. I think I can still determine if a reunion should *in my opinion* happen, regardless of what the writers will or won’t do (or is my opinion left to the writers as well?). I’ll even quote myself here: “continuously give *me* more clues as to whether or not *I* (and maybe others) should even think of rooting for the couple at one point or another in the future”. (And the “maybe others” inferred that maybe others do take clues from those scenes like I do). I don’t see how you could have interpreted my post as me determining all by my mighty self for everyone everywhere whether a reunion should happen. I agree macari. What else are we suppose to focus on? Thanks, I was worried for a second there if I was making any sense at all.
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shiyo
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Post by shiyo on Aug 22, 2011 20:42:42 GMT -5
Oh macari, you made a lot of sense. Dont fret! I read you 100%.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 20:50:43 GMT -5
Oh macari, you made a lot of sense. Dont fret! I read you 100%. Fretting aborted. Thank you! ;D
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Post by angelarose on Aug 22, 2011 20:54:34 GMT -5
I just have a hard time understanding how believing your husband is into women 'again' leads to insecurities about your age, or even your appearance or really most of the self esteem and confidence issues Olli appears to be having. I would think that would come if Christian dumped Olli for another man or a younger man, not if Olli (in Olli's view) simply isn't the right gender for Christian.
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ari
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Post by ari on Aug 22, 2011 21:13:02 GMT -5
It's interesting how Roman on AWZ had a similar s/l right before he reunited with Deniz. Chroust or someone seems to have a "thing" about gay men in their 30's having issues with getting older and feeling life has passed them by, so they become models. It must be a personal thing for whoever's writing this.
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pru
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Post by pru on Aug 22, 2011 21:14:47 GMT -5
I'm at a loss of how you don't understand what Olli is going through.
It doesn't matter what gender you are. Do you actually believe because someone is extremely attractive if their significant other cheats on them it's not going to affect them in all the ways it's doing Olli?
It's totally going to be a blow to their self-estem and confidence and make them question things about themselves, I find that to be a very normal reaction.
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Post by sonia38 on Aug 22, 2011 21:19:20 GMT -5
It's quite obvious to me that Christian's cheating on Olli has totally and completely messed with his psyche. It's going to take time for him to get his self esteem and confidence back.
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Post by angelarose on Aug 22, 2011 21:31:02 GMT -5
Yes, of course I understand that being cheated on can and does affect one's self esteem, and that it doesn't matter if you are an attractive person or not. And I didn't say it matters what gender you are. What I said was if the person believes that they were cheated on because the significant other is really into women and not men then that is an entirely different scenario than feeling you were cheated on because you aren't young enough, attractive enough, smart enough, what have you. I'm saying I don't see how the scenario of believing your husband isn't really gay and thus is into women plays into insecurities about age or even looks.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 22, 2011 21:42:02 GMT -5
It's interesting how Roman on AWZ had a similar s/l right before he reunited with Deniz. Chroust or someone seems to have a "thing" about gay men in their 30's having issues with getting older and feeling life has passed them by, so they become models. It must be a personal thing for whoever's writing this. Really that happend right before they got back together. Interesting. Thanks for that info. Okay then maybe I can stand this mid-life crisis, if it's going to eventually lead back to Chrolli. Still diesn't make much sense to me though.
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Post by canadiansunshine on Aug 22, 2011 21:42:53 GMT -5
I just have a hard time understanding how believing your husband is into women 'again' leads to insecurities about your age, or even your appearance or really most of the self esteem and confidence issues Olli appears to be having. I would think that would come if Christian dumped Olli for another man or a younger man, not if Olli (in Olli's view) simply isn't the right gender for Christian. Well, I think after being cheated on multiple times and then seeing your estranged hubby running in matching outfits with his "girlfriend" and being told by that same person "You're beyond help" would do pretty damaging things to one's self esteem. I've empathized with Christian in the past, through the whole Rob situation and the getting married ceremony and trying to avoid the Lilly storyline but understanding his reluctance to get another child after losing the little girl. But I cannot understand his character now, and I'm unfortunately starting to really dislike him because he is not showing me in any way that he cares about Olli's feelings. Here he is out with this girl he's moved on with after Olli, and Olli is actually being nice to him and is willing to talk to him, and he goes all condescending of how it was a good idea he didn't sign the contract. Olli does what Olli does and jumps on Christian, but Christian makes no attempt to clarify and instead tells him he's beyond help, sneers, and runs after his girl. That just makes me want to put my head down and cry for this couple, and it makes me rage at my computer screen. Because I'd loved them for so long and now I really really dislike the actions of Christian and I cannot honestly say I want them together with such a disfunctional relationship. Jessica is the new Olivia-she is manipulative, and totally after what she wants but not really the brains and skill to get there, but she will keep trying. She is dealing with Olli the way Olivia dealt with Olli-appealing to his compassionate, understanding side that borders on naivete. However, just as Olivia truly did care for Olli, I do believe Jessica does too. Even if she doesn't though, after what Olli's been through I think he has every right to consider saying "FU" to the stuff that's been happening in his life. I can now see how they set up Charlie to be on Christian's side and so unsympathetic to Olli-it would be the only way Olli would be able to do this to Charlie. As unbelievable as Jessica and Olli's friendship may be (and that is a pretty huge stretch, I must say-he is more kissy kissy with Jessica than he ever was with Rebecca, Miriam, Judith, or Olivia), I think writers are relying on their real chemistry on screen to have viewers overcome this leap in logic. Heck if they can make Tristan someone likable after the whole Helena debacle anything can happen in a soap. Wonder if they are setting up Christian the way they set up Charlie-justifying a more permanent split? Unless they are gonna give Christian a radical personality transplant...
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Post by angelarose on Aug 22, 2011 21:53:21 GMT -5
I didn't say being cheated on wouldn't affect Olli's self esteem at all, I said I don't understand how it makes him feel insecure about his age or to a large degree his looks if he believes he was cheated on because his husband is really into women. How does that have anything to do with age? I just think there's more going on here than we can just blame Christian for all Olli's insecurities that he has at the moment.
But I guess I'm just gonna stop trying to explain myself because either I'm not doing it properly or I'm the only one who feels this way.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Aug 22, 2011 21:59:53 GMT -5
I didn't say being cheated on wouldn't affect Olli's self esteem at all, I said I don't understand how it makes him feel insecure about his age or to a large degree his looks if he believes he was cheated on because his husband is really into women. How does that have anything to do with age? I just think there's more going on here than we can just blame Christian for all Olli's insecurities that he has at the moment. But I guess I'm just gonna stop trying to explain myself because either I'm not doing it properly or I'm the only one who feels this way. Oh Angiela, you're not.
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Aug 22, 2011 22:05:00 GMT -5
I didn't say being cheated on wouldn't affect Olli's self esteem at all, I said I don't understand how it makes him feel insecure about his age or to a large degree his looks if he believes he was cheated on because his husband is really into women. How does that have anything to do with age? I just think there's more going on here than we can just blame Christian for all Olli's insecurities that he has at the moment. But I guess I'm just gonna stop trying to explain myself because either I'm not doing it properly or I'm the only one who feels this way. Oh Angiela, you're not. Yup your not the only one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 22:27:51 GMT -5
I didn't say being cheated on wouldn't affect Olli's self esteem at all, I said I don't understand how it makes him feel insecure about his age or to a large degree his looks if he believes he was cheated on because his husband is really into women. How does that have anything to do with age? I just think there's more going on here than we can just blame Christian for all Olli's insecurities that he has at the moment. The marriage falling apart the way it did I think was the catalyst for all insecurities to come out – at least from my interpretation. It doesn’t mean that there’s a direct cause-effect. It doesn't even have to be perfectly rational for the person who it happens to. It might be just that, a catalyst big enough for everything buried maybe even before Christian to come out, whether directly related or not. Some things heard, said or experienced after that catalyst may have made those issues simply more prominent. It just all has a common denominator which is just precisely what Jessica said, “self-confidence”. The viewers are given that, the opportunity to see how much the whole thing has messed Olli up, and I must admit even deeper and less predictably (for a soap) than I was expecting. I’m just waiting for when it’ll come out that Olli will start second-guessing his bartending skills too (?). But more seriously, the fact that all of those insecurities are coming out isn’t even my issue. My problem is what the writers are going to do with it all, because they’ve presented it significantly enough for it to be a real issue that must be properly addressed and dealt with by Olli, otherwise even if he puts them aside at some point who knows what else could happen that will get them to come out again with even more force? I’m glad I’m seeing the collateral damage emotionally for Olli in this separation and all, but what are the writers going to do with it when it’s so much front and center? It’s getting to be a pretty big thing to believably mend in my eyes here.
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Post by angelarose on Aug 22, 2011 22:28:03 GMT -5
Yup your not the only one. Thanks, I thought maybe I was delusional.
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Post by chrolliforever7 on Aug 22, 2011 22:28:08 GMT -5
Obviously Jessica is ridiculous playing Olli like a frickin guitar. But I just can't believe Christian. Why would he even say something like that to Olli? And then tell him he's 'beyond help' What the hell is his problem!? No wonder Olli has no self confidence. His husband is screwing girls and making seriously rude comments. Its really hard to want Chrolli to reunite when Christian's being such an ass to Olli.
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Post by canadiansunshine on Aug 22, 2011 22:37:17 GMT -5
My thoughts about what Olli is going through is what happens in the aftermath of a breakup. It doesn't matter so much the gender-although it is emphasized by Olli, and THAT part of the discussion has been discussed at length in the sexuality thread. Focusing on the gender is so moot on this show anyways, because any writer will use any line about sexuality to suit their purpose-ie Olli being bisexual/gay and Christian being gay/bisexual/straight. Yes, Olli said he wouldn't have minded so much Christian cheating if it was a guy, but this was after Jessica and before Theresa. So after this convo, he catches Christian with a girl AGAIN, and now Christian is with her all the time-at his bar, in Charlie's restaurant, at Charlie's place, in the park randomly somewhere. So now, he's alone, and Christian, to Olli, has moved on to another RELATIONSHIP right after he thought he might take Christian back (he doesn't know if T is just a bed buddy or his real girlfriend-neither do we, really, because C and T are together a lot. Just because they don't say they are doesn't mean they're not-sharing a bed, hanging out together, etc shows more than just booty call status). And Olli's got...nothing. No man, his twink dumped him and called him old, his fling in Mallorca long gone, and here he is trying to do right by Charlie and now Christian's all in his face with his "girlfriend" and telling him it was good Olli didn't do it, that his modeling days were years ago. Christian may not have meant it that way, but Olli took it that way, and Christian did nothing to clarify but then was cruel about it. That is where my issue lies.
Now that I think back about it, the whole age things seems to be a plot device to push Olli into making this decision to model. An unnecessary reference of Raphael being so young when he clearly was not, the young uni student, the online ads. But really, when one's relationship has ended as badly as it did on cheating, and then your partner has seemingly moved on with someone else right afterwards before even talking about a divorce, one's self esteem gets shot. This is not to say the whole age insecurities is all Christian's fault. But when someone you've married and have been in a relationship with for four years suddenly is in another relationship, one starts to wonder-was it all just a blip in the radar in the first place. Not being good enough, not being attractive enough, nor young enough to hold onto your Mann. And in Olli's PoV, not being of the right gender on top of that. Yeeps.
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bkoz
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Post by bkoz on Aug 22, 2011 22:40:51 GMT -5
Obviously Jessica is ridiculous playing Olli like a frickin guitar. But I just can't believe Christian. Why would he even say something like that to Olli? And then tell him he's 'beyond help' What the hell is his problem!? No wonder Olli has no self confidence. His husband is screwing girls and making seriously rude comments. Its really hard to want Chrolli to reunite when Christian's being such an ass to Olli. Sorry but Christian is sleeping with ONE girl, not girls. Olli is the one sleeping with boys, that's more then one boy. Maybe Christian said that Olli is beyond help cause Olli took what Christian said the wrong way. He didn't mean anything by what he said. He was just saying it was a good idea for Olli that he didn't do the campaign. He didn't say Olli was old or anything. It was Olli who took it the wrong way.
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