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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 0:04:40 GMT -5
I hope it's ok to make a new topic for this and maybe we can draw out some of the non spoilerish discussion out of the spoiler topic. Potential areas of discussion: 1.) What exactly is the sexuality (bi, gay, straight) of Olli and Christian anyway? 2.) VL's weird phobia towards saying bi? 3.) Are Olli's fears about Christian's sexuality reasonable? 4.) Other VL storylines where sexuality played a role. 5.) If VL is doing a negative portrayal/feeding into prejudices about how gays/lesbians can be changed/can be turned back? 6.) Are Christian's scenes with women more passionate or believable like some claim? 7.) What is ollisexual and does it exist  8.) Overall, was the show realistic in how they dealt with Christian's turning? What were the biggest flaws/lack of realisms? __________________________ My take on some of these. - I find it very funny that Jo recently joked about how to him Olli started out straight, went bi, is now gay. But it really shows how messed up VL is that way. - I really hate it how VL constantly makes it seem like a binary choice gay/lesbian or straight. Worst imo when they did it with Rebecca and Charlie who lept to the lesbian label when it made no sense whatsoever. - I still never got the vibe that VL is portraying it as gays/lesbians being reformed by the right straight partner. IMO the closest to being offensive were Charlie and Rebecca's mini forrays into lesbianism and then dropping it. But I still never got the impression that VL portrayed it as it being a mistakes or Charlie and Rebecca finding the right guy to turn them back (it is noteworthy that neither Charlie nor Rebecca had a relationship with a guy after their "lesbian" relationships broke up). IMO even if Christian were to go back to women/fall in love with a woman, I still wouldn't consider it a negative portrayal as long as the show makes it clear that Christian still respects and values his relationship with Olli/considers it a good and valuable part of his lifestory. I don't really have a problem with characters like Charlie giving it a try and deciding it's not for them. HOWEVER I really wish that if they get to do that with women they would do the same with men. [no not like Christian going back to women, but straight male characters making out with a guy/having sex once and then deciding it's not for them; if Charlie can do that, why can't guys do it too? Yes, I realize that in real life women sexualities are more fluid than men's in general, but I still think it would be nice] - The oddest case is probably Carla and Susanne, but I think there Carla was the most responsible for setting the snide tone/making it obvious that to her Susanne going with a man again was to her akin to Susanne turning her back on lesbianism/Susanne no longer being reliable. I know many people look at this story as Susanne in the end showing that she couldn't get over Carla/that she loved Carla more than Lars, but now with that story being that long over it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth. - As for Olli being unreasonable... () I agree with whoever said that the thing that makes it understandable is Christian's statements (about being gay, about being done with women) that make this problematic/shifty/understandable that Olli has issues. () I do think that it's a really crappy double standard of Olli to be *that* blasé about cheating if it had been a man as he currently clames to be. I find that a really crappy attitude. () And yes, the fact that Olli used to call himself bi as well makes this really sucky as well. IMO the fact that *to us* the issue that Christian seemed defensive/lying about these issues makes things more understandable doesn't really changed that that's not the bit Olli has usually focused on. - As I said in the spoiler topic: some people have brought forth the theory that maybe Christian chooses women for his dalliances precisely because he prefers men (and hence men would be a bigger temptation/bigger injury to Chrolli's relationship). I still think if they wanted to portray that then there should be scenes along the lines of Christian being hit on by both men and women and it being shown that it is hard for him to tear himself away from men. Like show us being tempted by the guy and forcing himself to switch to the women. Even if we assume that he was that happy and content with Olli he just banned all thoughts of other men from his brain, wouldn't any time where Christian is at least shown to be tempted by another guy even if he refuses to go for it/shies away from it be now? Or at least now after he thinks Olli has rejected him for good? - I don't buy that the problem of Christian with women is that there are no other gay regulars on the show. Why? Because obviously they never had any trouble casting various minor gay characters when it's Olli's story (Timo guy from the fitness club, drug dealer Rick who was hitting on Olli at the disco, random guy Olli was talking to at Schneiders, gay food critic, Rob etc). [not to mention the potential to purely physically basis perv on straight guys like Olli with David] So if they wanted to they could easily do the same thing for Christian but they don't. - I never thought Christian's original turning was all that realistic. It was a very typical VL fairy tale type story, but from a realism POV I always thought that one kiss and Christian is quickly ready to be gay and love Olli and only Olli, marry him and never look at another guy [and according to Christian had never felt any attraction for men before/hadn't realized he could be attracted to men] really seemed like a stretch to me. I always thought that it would have made more sense if Christian had at least had a period where he "tested" his attraction for men in general (not necessarily sleeping with them, but at least checking around) and not just Olli. I think it works even less now with the "new" Christian who apparently thinks a fling with Theresa is a-ok. - Ok, I'm probably showing my bias/prejudice here, but I always had a problem with some of the beard accusations. Ok, my really simplified view on the situation is this: There are easy and complicated relationships. In real life we might enter a complicated or hard relationship because we are just that damn in love/attracted to a person. But if somebody is gay and entering a relationship with somebody they are not attracted to in the slightest, shouldn't they be much more capable of picking a good/easy relationship than somebody who is steered by hormones? That's why I never bought Nico and Coco as beard type relationships where there was no attraction/affection/in-loveness. Nico was a pretty demanding and straight up girlfriend and dating Coco made Christian's life quite a bit more complicated too. Why would a gay man bother getting involved with a relationship like that when there is no hormonal reason for him to do so? Hormones might make US pine for somebody who for example is already attached or the best friend of a loved one or overall complicated, but if hormones are missing what keeps you from just picking somebody who is unattached and seems like they wouldn't ask any questions? I felt the same way when Deniz was secretly sleeping with Vanessa while being in a public relationship with Roman (or cheating on Roman with his father's gf). In real life people cheat because of attraction/hormones. If the attraction/sex really did nothing for Deniz and *nobody knew about his relationship with Vanessa* what exactly does he get out of sleeping with Vanessa? Just really doesn't seem very believable to me [that's why to me "actor gets taken to the cleaners by his wife because he cheated on her with another woman" or "politician is releaved to have illegitimate children with multiple women" [as opposed "x is married and has several children with his wife" like some of those believed to be gay Republicans] is to me a good sign that somebody isn't gay because those kind of mistakes that make your life suck more you usually do only out of hormonal reasons]. |
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 0:57:45 GMT -5
lola, I do get your point about the statement I made. But really I was just throwing out a possibility, not really whether or not it's the most likely to happen or even that I think that's what will happen. I was just trying to say that at this point we don't know what Christian's motivations are until we hear it from him or the show spells it out for us and makes it obvious so there really could be many explanations, and I don't want to leap to 'Christian is really straight' or 'prefers women' or his relationship with Olli 'was a lie' as the explanation. Although, assuming they will be reconciling I would find that difficult if they had Christian decide or reveal to Olli that he prefers women. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying that if it happened I predict I wouldn't like it or find it very believable as long as the ground work isn't there. Again unless they now with Olli being gone start some soul searching that actually includes Christian checking out other men as well and showing us how tempted/not tempted Christian is. IMO Christian doesn't necessarily have to sleep with other guys, but I don't think that I could ever buy Christian's decision in regards to men believable if he doesn't do at least do some of that. Generally the show had had other stories of guys who sleep around with people who don't mean anything to them to get away from the one they love or to get over heartbreak (Tristan and Gregor spring to mind; Ansgar and Leonard too). But all of them still slept with conventionally attractive women, none of them started sleeping with men or at least really unattractive women because it would be "less cheating". But it is a really interesting question whether Chrolli could ever truly work if Christian ended up saying he prefers women or can't offer any proof to dispute that he doesn't. I guess they could go for something where women appeal to him sexually but not as much emotionally [like a weird version of the Madonna/Whore thing]. Or just go for "it's about the soul/personality, not about the looks" and that's what matters. Or just go for it's all equal for Christian (I still think that Christian realizing that he is bisexual and calling Olli on his double standards/forcing Olli to get over this double standard would be an acceptable ending for the story for me, more in the style of it's not a problem that Christian is bisexual but that before he wasn't sure of anything). I just think that with Christian's history with women it would just end up seeming like a huge stretch if they tried to now claim that Christian is all men/greatly prefers men in general. |
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Post by angelarose on Jul 10, 2011 1:29:45 GMT -5
lola, I do get your point about the statement I made. But really I was just throwing out a possibility, not really whether or not it's the most likely to happen or even that I think that's what will happen. I was just trying to say that at this point we don't know what Christian's motivations are until we hear it from him or the show spells it out for us and makes it obvious so there really could be many explanations, and I don't want to leap to 'Christian is really straight' or 'prefers women' or his relationship with Olli 'was a lie' as the explanation. Although, assuming they will be reconciling I would find that difficult if they had Christian decide or reveal to Olli that he prefers women. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying that if it happened I predict I wouldn't like it or find it very believable as long as the ground work isn't there. Again unless they now with Olli being gone start some soul searching that actually includes Christian checking out other men as well and showing us how tempted/not tempted Christian is. IMO Christian doesn't necessarily have to sleep with other guys, but I don't think that I could ever buy Christian's decision in regards to men believable if he doesn't do at least do some of that. Generally the show had had other stories of guys who sleep around with people who don't mean anything to them to get away from the one they love or to get over heartbreak (Tristan and Gregor spring to mind; Ansgar and Leonard too). But all of them still slept with conventionally attractive women, none of them started sleeping with men or at least really unattractive women because it would be "less cheating". But it is a really interesting question whether Chrolli could ever truly work if Christian ended up saying he prefers women or can't offer any proof to dispute that he doesn't. I guess they could go for something where women appeal to him sexually but not as much emotionally [like a weird version of the Madonna/Whore thing]. Or just go for "it's about the soul/personality, not about the looks" and that's what matters. Or just go for it's all equal for Christian (I still think that Christian realizing that he is bisexual and calling Olli on his double standards/forcing Olli to get over this double standard would be an acceptable ending for the story for me, more in the style of it's not a problem that Christian is bisexual but that before he wasn't sure of anything). I just think that with Christian's history with women it would just end up seeming like a huge stretch if they tried to now claim that Christian is all men/greatly prefers men in general. I agree, that would be an acceptable ending for me as well, and probably the most likely one. I know these are very minor examples, but there have been occasions where Christian has remarked on the attractivenes of other men. Nothing too overt and not in a particularly 'checking them out' or 'tempted by them' kind of way, but there have been a handful. For example when Christian was jealous of Olli's flirting at work he said of the men who flirt with Olli "some of them are even attractive," and he referred to the food critic flirting with Olli as "the good-looking one." (And I also realize those examples were in reference to guys he felt were hitting on Olli and played into his jealousy, but nevertheless...) Or when Christian and Olli were talking about the 'sexy sports students' and how as long as Christian was in the closet they couldn't steal him from Olli, Christian said "you have no idea how sexy they are." Also, when they were looking at the photos of the guy Charlie left at the altar Christian looked at the picture and said, "Wow, not bad....," and he told the stripper at the bachelor party "that was hot." There may have been a couple of others I'm forgetting. Now, again, I realize these are relatively minor examples and not many of them, and nothing that showed a great attraction to men for Christian, but it's at least an allusion to Christian finding men attractive or that he at least notices men. For whatever that's worth. |
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 1:41:31 GMT -5
Eh, I feel there were more and more overt instances of straight characters joking about hooking up with men. It doesn't help that Thore did too much straight looking for quite a bit (like looking like he was looking after Rebecca's ass when leaving when she was still dating Gregor and stuff like that, or joking about how he wouldn't mind Olli having bigger breasts when Constantin did that questionaire thing).
Well considering VL's weird issues with bi storylines maybe it's not really all that likely. Though it might actually be one of the things that would switch around the ass vs woobie situation around for me again. Olli has many reasons to be mad at Christian and not getting back together with him.
But if Christian learned to stand by his bisexuality and Olli insisted that all those other good reasons actually don't matter to him at all, the only obstacle is that Christian might like women in addition to men/that he is offended by Christian's bisexuality, then that would make him the dick if that is the only thing he cares about (and it is in addition to that a pretty stupid thing to care about).
But yeah, considering VL's bad track record with considering bi-ness an option, I wouldn't be that surprised if they tried to sell us a madonna/whore thing (sexually or emotionally).
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Post by angelarose on Jul 10, 2011 2:19:29 GMT -5
Eh, I feel there were more and more overt instances of straight characters joking about hooking up with men. It doesn't help that Thore did too much straight looking for quite a bit (like looking like he was looking after Rebecca's ass when leaving when she was still dating Gregor and stuff like that, or joking about how he wouldn't mind Olli having bigger breasts when Constantin did that questionaire thing). Well considering VL's weird issues with bi storylines maybe it's not really all that likely. Though it might actually be one of the things that would switch around the ass vs woobie situation around for me again. Olli has many reasons to be mad at Christian and not getting back together with him. But if Christian learned to stand by his bisexuality and Olli insisted that all those other good reasons actually don't matter to him at all, the only obstacle is that Christian might like women in addition to men/that he is offended by Christian's bisexuality, then that would make him the dick if that is the only thing he cares about (and it is in addition to that a pretty stupid thing to care about). But yeah, considering VL's bad track record with considering bi-ness an option, I wouldn't be that surprised if they tried to sell us a madonna/whore thing (sexually or emotionally). I don't really recall the checking out Rebecca's ass thing or much of the 'straight looking' as you say (and I think you're taking the 'bigger breasts' line too seriously) , but maybe I'm biased. And I did say the examples I offered were nothing overt. All I'm saying is that if they did choose to go the 'Christian really prefers men' route his past hasn't been COMPLETELY devoid of finding men attractive or noticing them. As for the Madonna/Whore thing I think that's much too complex and involved for a soap so I can't see that being the route they go (plus in this case wouldn't that still technically make him bisexual?  ) I don't think too many people would buy that either. And it seems to me they are pointing toward bisexual in Christian's case, even FINALLY having someone (Charlie) suggest it. I really don't see how they could get around it at this point. To me the whole 'he's really straight but he loves Olli and he's the only man he'll ever love' is patently absurd and I don't think anybody's buying that realistically that works. I suppose they could come up with some explanation for how he's really gay and have Christian have some reason for why he strays with women, but that's probably a tough sell also. I just think the way they've portrayed this whole thing the most realistic option is for Christian to be bisexual, and probably the simplest as well. Of course that probably means they won't do it. |
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 2:29:18 GMT -5
I dunno. Even though I was very happy that Charlie finally said bisexual it was really only in passing. It wasn't really discussed in a major way or even just emphasized by the scene. When I posted about it on the AJ Forum (being happy that somebody finally said the word) at least one person didn't even remember it had been said and had to rewatch the scene to notice. So it wasn't very pronounced. If however it was the start of a larger direction I'd be really happy though  |
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Post by willow97 on Jul 10, 2011 4:37:33 GMT -5
I think you’ve brought up some very interesting questions here.
I’d kinda like to respond to points 1, 5 and 7. To me this is a very personal slap in the face. Christian has been in a gay relationship for three years. He married a man. Why address the issue of sexuality now? It’s three years too late. But they need angst and a new SL and couldn’t come up with anything new in my opinion.
My issue is that they are representing a minority group and it needs to be addressed with some sensitivity. My brother hung himself. That they now want to establish that Christian as heterosexual/bisexual is offensive. It just enforces my parents belief that see“all he needed was a real woman” like Jessica, the irresistible blonde and they would take comfort in knowing he could be swayed back especially after three years. I won’t get my brother back though.
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 5:30:31 GMT -5
Not sure if the show is really portraying Jessica or what happened (potetially) between her and Christian as a positive or joyful thing for anybody involved though. In that line I actually find the Dana and Andi types the worst whose reaction to Christian/Theresa is somewhere between "Hehe, LOL" and "Awww, shucks" rather than "this is a real tragedy and you are cheating on the person in your life". I do have to say this really makes me wish that they wouldn't play the Theresa vs. Olli stuff as sexual desire. I mean, if I was some sort of religious fundamentalist, I'm pretty sure my pity of Christian missing the intensity/the sex was slightly better would be severely limited. I mean as a rightwing nut, why would I care whether Christian has great orgasms or just medium orgasms? I'd rather they play it for the emotional connection as opposed to "well the sex is less satisfying than it could be". Nor would it put Chrolli in a great light if they presumably had troubles and imcompatibilities that apparently put Christian in a place where he genuinely considered moving on with another person, but then he decides to give the relationship with Olli another try because the sex was good? As opposed to, because Olli is such a great person or whatever? If the only thing that is driving him away from Theresa potetially is because he is gay, wouldn't it then make sense for him to find a different boyfriend rather than going back to Olli? Going back to Olli makes much more sense to me if it is portrayed over an emotional connection rather than a sexuality issue. I really wish there were more on screen characters who looked at the current situation with Christian and Theresa as a genuinely tragedy rather than "Well, duh, obviously had to happenm what else did Olli expect" (like his gay married husband not to move on with a woman).  |
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Post by angelarose on Jul 10, 2011 5:58:28 GMT -5
willow97 I just wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear about your brother and offer my condolences.
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Post by angelarose on Jul 10, 2011 6:10:50 GMT -5
Not sure if the show is really portraying Jessica or what happened (potetially) between her and Christian as a positive or joyful thing for anybody involved though. In that line I actually find the Dana and Andi types the worst whose reaction to Christian/Theresa is somewhere between "Hehe, LOL" and "Awww, shucks" rather than "this is a real tragedy and you are cheating on the person in your life". I do have to say this really makes me wish that they wouldn't play the Theresa vs. Olli stuff as sexual desire. I mean, if I was some sort of religious fundamentalist, I'm pretty sure my pity of Christian missing the intensity/the sex was slightly better would be severely limited. I mean as a rightwing nut, why would I care whether Christian has great orgasms or just medium orgasms? I'd rather they play it for the emotional connection as opposed to "well the sex is less satisfying than it could be". Nor would it put Chrolli in a great light if they presumably had troubles and imcompatibilities that apparently put Christian in a place where he genuinely considered moving on with another person, but then he decides to give the relationship with Olli another try because the sex was good? As opposed to, because Olli is such a great person or whatever? If the only thing that is driving him away from Theresa potetially is because he is gay, wouldn't it then make sense for him to find a different boyfriend rather than going back to Olli? Going back to Olli makes much more sense to me if it is portrayed over an emotional connection rather than a sexuality issue. I really wish there were more on screen characters who looked at the current situation with Christian and Theresa as a genuinely tragedy rather than "Well, duh, obviously had to happenm what else did Olli expect" (like his gay married husband not to move on with a woman). I never read or interpreted the "missing the intensity" line as being about sex, I always thought it would be played as an emotional connection Christian has with Olli as opposed to Theresa. Maybe that won't be the case but that's what I took it to mean from the start. Isn't this line of discussion a bit spoilery though? I totally agree that Dana and Andi's reaction to Christian with Theresa was absolutely ridiculous. Why would they be the least bit amused by it, especially given they are also friends with Olli? |
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 6:16:17 GMT -5
I really don't think that it can be considered a spoiler if it's in the official character bio plainly to see on the official website. It's what anybody would see first even if they just wanted to find out the name of the actor playing a certain character. To me that should be fair game. (aside from the fact that nobody knows what it really means anyway) I don't know if they are going to make it about sex, but it seems to me that here people seem pretty obsessed with making it about gay vs. bi and sexual satisfaction with Theresa. From a relationship POV I think it would be better if he picked/wanted Olli despite things being sufficient with Theresa, rather than there being an outside of his abilities obstacle to being with Theresa that would count her out even if Olli was the worst and most disagreeable person in the universe who kicked puppies for a living. |
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Post by chrischi on Jul 10, 2011 6:31:10 GMT -5
willow97 I just wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear about your brother and offer my condolences. Yeah, me too. I've already read your comment with regard to Jessica's "Help Olli" blog the other day and I agree with you that it is water on the mills of people who advocate the stupid "all he needed was a real woman" argument. |
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Post by angelarose on Jul 10, 2011 6:45:57 GMT -5
That's fine, I was just checking because I wasn't sure technically what the 'rules' of spoilers are. I'm not sure that it won't maybe be a combination of sexual satisfaction and emotional connection that would drive Christian away from Theresa and toward Olli. But I always just assumed there would be an emotional element to it and that that would be the primary reason for him to want to be with Olli. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I assumed.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 10, 2011 10:18:51 GMT -5
From a relationship POV I think it would be better if he picked/wanted Olli despite things being sufficient with Theresa, rather than there being an outside of his abilities obstacle to being with Theresa that would count her out even if Olli was the worst and most disagreeable person in the universe who kicked puppies for a living. I agree and IMO, it would come across as Christian coming to that decision on his own, without it being told/influence/suggested by someone else OR having Theresa rejecting him. |
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 10:19:35 GMT -5
Tom Chroust gave an interview after the Chrolli story where he said gaydaytime.blogspot.com/2008/09/interview-with-tom-chroust.htmlI'm pretty sure there were a couple of interviews where Jo and Thore said that as far as they are concerned both Olli and Christian are bi. Fe Jo here: gaydaytime.blogspot.com/2008/09/jo-weil-in-front.htmlPersonally, I think Jo is kinda pissed that Olli is so gay only now. There are a lot of interviews where he talks about Olli being openminded and bisexual and he sounds quite proud of it. But now that Olli is ranting on bisexuals he kinda has to assume that apparently Olli is gay only now. Not to mention that it negates a lot of the stories/stuff Olli had in the past, from his fights with Tom about bisexuality up to the advice he gave to Charlie about dating Stella to a lot of the promo work they did about Chrolli/Ollian back then (it being about the person, not the gender etc) |
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 10, 2011 10:53:51 GMT -5
LolaRuns, thanks for bringing up those comments from Jo and Tom about the characters and bisexuality. It does seem like the show and the writers haven't thought that Olli could be allowed to fall in love with a woman (if things don't work out with Christian OR if Thore leaves the show). The character of Christian has that option. I just don't understand why the possibility of adding another gay/bi male character(s) PERMENTELY isn't considered. Tons of straight characters, but there can ONLY BE two gay/bi characters and they're always paired off together.
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pru
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Post by pru on Jul 10, 2011 11:12:55 GMT -5
Exactly, DD.
To only have to gay/bi characters is completely unrealistic and lame.
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Post by sonia38 on Jul 10, 2011 11:42:44 GMT -5
Unrealistic and lame is really nice words to use to describe this. Keep on changing people's orientation is another thing, why can't they both just be gay and if one decides to leave the show they find another gay character to pair that one with, what is so difficult with that.
This show does not even know the word diverse when it comes to cast members no wonder they don't have a clue to do with the "only gay couple in Dusseldorf".
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 11:51:21 GMT -5
LolaRuns, thanks for bringing up those comments from Jo and Tom about the characters and bisexuality. It does seem like the show and the writers haven't thought that Olli could be allowed to fall in love with a woman (if things don't work out with Christian OR if Thore leaves the show). The character of Christian has that option. I just don't understand why the possibility of adding another gay/bi male character(s) PERMENTELY isn't considered. Tons of straight characters, but there can ONLY BE two gay/bi characters and they're always paired off together. I think for them it's fundamentally pointless to introduce a permanent character unless it's for a major storyline. And 95% of all storylines on VL happen to be romances (the only characters I can remember who were introduced and whose main story was not romance based were Kim (potential daughter of Ansgar) and Maria(mother of Ansgar) and Maria eventually ended up in a romance and I'm sure Kim will too even if her first story isn't a romance). So them introducing a character just to "hang" is pointless. If characters like this exist (like the older priest in Mallorca right now) then they are not permanent cast members. But imo that doesn't explain why they can't have some "out of the box" gay friends who just show up when the story requires it. (for example when the story required it Tristan magically grew a friend from college who stopped by for two episodes and then left and was never mentioned again) But then again I generally wonder that for the straight characters too. Kinda like a character like Rebecca will have a birthday or characters like Lydia and Sebastian will have a wedding and there will not be a single "other" person. Wait so these people have absolutely no friends at all from school/college/hobbies? I really think they should shell out the money for some more reoccurring friend or office characters. Well technically that's happened with Ulli/Tom/Olli (Ulli left and was replaced with Olli). IMO if Thore or Jo actually left I actually think the chances would be higher that they would introduce another gay or bisexual character as a love interest. I think the problem is more that neither one is leaving but they need to give them a storyline now and they don't want to be "stuck" with a third gay character who is useless to them once Chrolli have reunited. |
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Post by candyflossuk on Jul 10, 2011 12:36:34 GMT -5
Unrealistic and lame is really nice words to use to describe this. Keep on changing people's orientation is another thing, why can't they both just be gay and if one decides to leave the show they find another gay character to pair that one with, what is so difficult with that. This show does not even know the word diverse when it comes to cast members no wonder they don't have a clue to do with the "only gay couple in Dusseldorf". The thing is though, I really wouldn't mind if Christian was bisexual. Because I've never believed he was 100% gay anyway. I think he fits into the Craig from HO category - ie: gay for one man only, or bi but with a leaning towards one particular gender. That Christian chose to label himself as 'gay' so quickly after falling in love with Oli always seemed ridiculous to me. And I believe the whole 'I'm gay and I'm a boxer' thing was done to facilitate the homophobia in the boxing word storyline. Because 'I'm bi and I'm a boxer' doesn't really have the same affect does it?. So what irritates me then is that whenever things go wrong with Oli, the writers have Christian seek comfort with a woman. Always a woman...but when Oli confronts him about it, Christian is always back to being 'gay' and 'done with women' again. Clearly this isn't the case. So what exactly do the writers want us to think? That Christian is lying to pacify Oli? That Christian isn't even sure himself why he keeps reverting to woman? Or that Christian really is gay and holds no attraction to these women that he keeps throwing himself at? (I don't believe this for one minute. He certainly seemed to be enjoying that strip by Jessica and sleeping with 'sexy' Theresa... :  Or is it simply a case of the writers constantly changing his sexual orientation to suite that particular storyline? (ie he needed to be the gay boxer in the original storyline, now he needs to be bi in order to fuel Oli's fears). They need to have Christian verify his sexuality once and for all both to Oli and the audience because at the minute, it just comes across as sloppy writing. If Christian sees himself as bisexual now then so be it. But it is insulting to our intelligence for us to hear him say 'I'm gay' again after his little performance with Theresa....  . I personally think that Oli would have accepted Christian's attraction to women if he just been honest sooner (and of course if Christian stopped putting his lips on them....) |
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 10, 2011 12:36:47 GMT -5
I just find it sad that the show would see the possibility of adding another gay/bi character as being "stuck". They're limiting themselves AND the storylines that could happen with ANY of their permanent characters still on the show. The character of Miriam's been allowed to have "fluid sexuality" in her last pairing w/Rebecca. She's linked with Andi, Christian (one date) and Gregor. I find it really frustrating and then it makes sense why fandom goes insane whenever it looks like their gay OTP'ing is being "destroyed" by the writers and are pleased when breakup storylines get quickie resolutions.
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 10, 2011 13:12:31 GMT -5
I'm no expert on gay/bi/whatever but one thing I really liked was one reply in a bisexuality column where the poster said (paraphrasing here) that people asks her whether she is more male or more female leaning all the time and her answer is always she doesn't know/it depends. Basically there are days where she's horny for guys and days where she's horny for girls. (again horribly paraphrasing but that's the gist I got, that yeah it might depend on the mood or whatever, that there are days where she is 90% girls and days where she's 90% guys and days where she's 70% girls and days where she's 45% girls)
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robin1
Junior Member
Posts: 415
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Post by robin1 on Jul 10, 2011 13:56:48 GMT -5
LolaRuns, thanks for bringing up those comments from Jo and Tom about the characters and bisexuality. It does seem like the show and the writers haven't thought that Olli could be allowed to fall in love with a woman (if things don't work out with Christian OR if Thore leaves the show). The character of Christian has that option. I just don't understand why the possibility of adding another gay/bi male character(s) PERMENTELY isn't considered. Tons of straight characters, but there can ONLY BE two gay/bi characters and they're always paired off together. thats right and as i wrote yesterday in another thread: they are the only gaycouple in the world without any gay friends. the SL would much more interesting then instead of theresa another guy came into christians life. but maybe they want to shock us with yet another woman so we all should believe that this is really the end of chrolli. but no way, writers! we know the truth! we know there will be a very happy ending! |
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robin1
Junior Member
Posts: 415
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Post by robin1 on Jul 10, 2011 13:59:05 GMT -5
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Post by psychomary on Jul 10, 2011 14:04:50 GMT -5
I think Christian is a straight boy who happened to fall in love with another boy. And when his love for him will be gone, then he'll go back to women. I believe that all of us have an idea of what we like or dislike in our head and when we find it, there's something that makes us go closer to that person in our inconscious. And noone knows why.
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) I don't think too many people would buy that either. And it seems to me they are pointing toward bisexual in Christian's case, even FINALLY having someone (Charlie) suggest it. I really don't see how they could get around it at this point. To me the whole 'he's really straight but he loves Olli and he's the only man he'll ever love' is patently absurd and I don't think anybody's buying that realistically that works. I suppose they could come up with some explanation for how he's really gay and have Christian have some reason for why he strays with women, but that's probably a tough sell also. I just think the way they've portrayed this whole thing the most realistic option is for Christian to be bisexual, and probably the simplest as well. Of course that probably means they won't do it.
. I personally think that Oli would have accepted Christian's attraction to women if he just been honest sooner (and of course if Christian stopped putting his lips on them....)