Christian & Oliver, 19.06.2009, video & caps

[lolaruns]

The montage showed it perfectly to me how their relationship works. Christian wants to be the one to protect or "the man" who climbs up the tree to get the badminton ball. Olli lets him do it and it's giving the Christian the feeling he needs. But he's the one who makes the decision "where to we lay" and that stuff.

But that's the problem, if Olli stops doing that, giving Christian that feeling and becomes too directly controlling, of course Christian is going to balk. And now that their situation has changed of course there are going to be more situations where Christian makes the sacrifices and Olli is the one who has to find other ways for Christian to give his input.

Compare the critic situation to the Wolle situation. They had to downplay their relationship and go along with somebody who was clearly and asshole for career gain.

- They talked about it beforehand
- Christian knew he had Olli's ok and thought it was necessary
- Christian was miserable all the way and kept sneaking apologetic looks the entire time
- After it was over Christian immediately rushed to Olli told him how sorry he was and offered to quit

And even despite these factors even Olli complained. And Olli did none of those things above. Christian was apologectic even though he had Olli's explicit ok because Olli thought it was necessary. Here Olli is NOT apologetic at all even though Christian obviously disagrees with him.

With Wolle C&O talked it over and Olli thought it was necessary while Christian didn't want to do it. Here Christian obviously think that this particular thing is superfluous and NOT necessary for them to succeed and still Olli does it.

Christian apologizes for overreacting but how about any of these apologies from Olli:
- I won't do it again
- It's only temporary I will stop doing it once the bar is successfull enough
- Next time I do it I will talk to you first and inform you about the circumstances
- Let's have a serious discussion about why I think reviews are critical and you don't

Instead when something bothers Christian (sucking up to an obviously corrupt critic and playing into his scheme) rather than stopping what is bad in Christian's eyes, Olli's suggestion boils down to "I'm not gonna stop but you have to stop looking".

[sio127]

I am siding with Lola on this one, Olli is being rather selfish here, ::::runs and hides:::: and the way he basically sacked Chrisitian, very off the cuff and nonchalently (sp!), if you think about it CHristian was working there long before Olli came on the scene, Olli arrives, gets his aunt to put in some money, gets Christian to help refurb the place then turns round and sacks him. I wouldn't be very happy, not to mention the lack of wages, Christian now has no job! I would have preferred it if it had come at the end of a serious discussion about where to go next in the relationship, or at least how to get over the jealous side of things, not jsut thrown out as Olli was falling asleep!!

[mona]

I would think the same if Olli would've done something like "You're fired" with a bossy face. But it sounded more like a suggestion and he thinks it could be good for them and not for him. He always "pushed" Christian to make more of his life and somehow the NL isn't what Christian really wants to do. It has a "an ending is a new beginning" vibe and not that he wants Christian out because it isn't working at all.

If Christian would say "No!" I think after a day we would have Olli sitting there again "Sorry, are you still mad?". But often Christian sees that Olli isn't wrong (writers fault?) and they want to make it look like Ollis choice IS the right way for everyone. Just like we were supposed to think that Olli did something wrong when he called Christian "Angestellter" and not everyone agreed.

SPOILER
I mean, Olli can't know what happens next but up to Christians sport test he could be happier with it because he gets near the job he wants and Olli "pushed" him to do it. And besides that, they may have reasons why not working together is a little better


If Christan loves the NL and it's his dream too I would get the "I was here first" but after all it's not his dream like it is for Olli. I still think "firing" is too hard, suggestion is more the right word but maybe it will get "bossy" on monday, I don't know.

SPOILER

There's another situation where Christian has the control though. Instead of serious talking he isn't helping Olli and then he decides it's right again and "love wins". Then he says his decision I think and I hope Olli will let him choose to still work there or not in the end

[sio127]

Good point Mona....I guess Monday will tell when you see the reaction of Christian and then what Olli says after that......or should I say what the "writers" have decided they say. Every now and then I need to take a step back and think....it's not real, it's a soap opera.

[lolaruns]

I guess they just didn't work up their argument at all. Olli firing Christian implies that Christian is 100% the problem for having a problem. Not that Olli could have handled the situation in any way better (such as introducing Christian as his partner, informing Chrisitan beforehand who the guy was, asking Christian for support ahead, etc...).

I have to admit if on some level it isn't actually embarassing that his boyfriend is a waiter. Like maybe it will actually get easier for him to introduce Christian as his partner once Christian no longer works there.

I don't really doubt that it would make sense for Christian to leave either because I just think it is better (separating personal and professional, Christian should make his way elsewhere) or if he is disruptive to the everyday dealings of the No Limits. If it's more of reason 2 it is just bugsome because whether intentionally or not we saw that Christian is NOT always disruptive and that for example didn't do anything when Olli put himself up for auction. So if it is mostly the second reason it just seems something that could have been avoided if Olli had just used more tact. So I hope that Olli will be smart and mostly take his arguments from reason category 1.

[rhiannonhero]

sio, yeah, a lot of us tend to talk about the characters like real people. I think that as a writer of original novels and stories, I see characters as a lot more like real people than one might think. My experience is that if I write something the character doesn't like, they won't cooperate with me going forward. When I talk about my novel with people, sometimes I get, "You know they aren't real, right?" in a worried tone, as though I'm insane. And, yes, I know that the characters in my novel aren't real, but I think a writer is doing it wrong if they aren't creating something that is real enough that even they start to feel like the characters have a will of their own. So, in general, if the writers are doing it right, I think that invested readers (or in this case viewers) are going to feel like the characters are real enough to discuss like real people.

And, so I shall do that now.

I've actually been trying to parse out in my mind the difference between what we got upset about watching the scene, and what Christian actually expressed to Olli that he was upset about. We got upset that Olli called him an employee and the disrespect that Olli showed to Christian with his tone and by making him wait. Christian, though, didn't bring up any of that (at least not that we saw), all he talked about was the flirtation, and that Olli let the guy touch him, which, as far as unwelcome touches go, it wasn't like Lukas was really groping him, he had a single suggestive finger on Olli's shoulder. (Though, in my rewatches, I waffle on Olli's reaction to it -- sometimes I think he looks uncomfortable, and other times I think he looks a little turned on, or even tempted, but I'm not sure -- your thoughts on this?)

So, as far as Olli offering an apology is concerned, if he were to review his own behavior, and what Christian explicitly told him that he was upset about, then I can imagine that Olli feels that he was the one who was really slighted here, what with Christian basically implying that he would've prostituted himself for the review, and getting humiliated in front of the critic and the entire No Limits for not doing anything (in his mind). So, I can't really blame Olli for not returning the apology. If Christian had said, "How could you call me your employee in a situation like that? How could you talk to me in that disrespectful tone? How could you leave me hanging without an explanation while you apparently flirted with some good looking guy?" then I'd be really mad at Olli for not apologizing for those things, but I really don't think Olli is the most self-aware guy, and to expect him to be something he simply isn't and won't ever be...well, I think I can't really stay angry with him for that.

I think a lot of this comes down to what we've discussed before about the different concepts that Olli and Christian have about relationships. I think that, to Olli, so long as he hasn't gone over a certain boundary line, which I'm not entirely sure what that is for him...(I think, though, that for Olli that would be actual sex, but because he's with Christian he's probably modified to to kissing, or maybe heavy making out, though after what happened with Coco and the kiss, Olli would be a total idiot to not modify it to even a kiss)...then he hasn't actually "done anything", no matter what words or looks are exchanged, or what implication his flirtation might give to the person he's flirting with. So, while I feel like you and Christian about it personally, I can't say that Olli is WRONG, especially if they haven't actually talked this out. I think that Christian was attempting to talk it out that morning, but without actually acknowleding that they might have different ideas about what those terms mean, like "flirting", then it was a fruitless attempt at being a grown-up in a relationship, because they were clearly talking about two different things, imo.

I got interrupted by my three year old a dozen times while typing this, so I have no idea if it hangs together or makes any sense. Here's to hoping!

[lolaruns]

But Christian's comments did also boil down to "Why would you suck to a corrupt critic?" and that the prize in his eyes didn't warrant the action.

To me that adds another level to it that goes beyond "nobody should touch you". More along the lines of "this is a particularly lousy excuse". Maybe even into "this is a particularly distasteful situation". Hence the prostitution comments.

To me Olli is definitely evading a discussion.

They talked about flirting
Christian said that flirting is ok as long as it remains flirting
Apparently for Christian flirting is only vocal and "he touched you!!" crossed the line

Olli obviously thinks otherwise and that harmless touches are ok. But he is not prepared to have an actual discussion with Christian (like trying to make him see his POV) because he knows that Christian likely couldn't be convinced. (even though Christian showed signs of being consiliatory)

His only solution is neither to stop doing it, putting some sort of other boundary on it, or making Christian see it is ok, his only solution is that Christian has to stop seeing it. Like you said, the more grown up solution would have been to genuinely talk it out, talk about where boundaries are.

Obviously chances are that it might not be a very pleasant discussion because Christian would probably prefer boundaries (like touching or whatever else) that Olli doesn't want. Except he has no *practical* leg to stand on. Because he might be able to argue that flirting it part of the service industry but there is no way he could justify that flirting with touching is in any way directly correlated/essential for the success of their bar when Christian would likely argue that normal flirting/being friendly would do it just as well and the few percent they might lose through touching can go and fuck themselves.

So in that case Olli would have to admit that the only reason why he wants to keep flirting is because he likes it and not because it is in any way essential for their business. And he would have to explain why he likes flirting which Christian likely wouldn't understand.

IMO the most honest thing to say would be if Olli said "Flirting is essential, and I know myself, I can't always control myself so there might be touching involved. just can't give any guarantees. If you can't witness that maybe you should leave the business. But let me assure you even when there is touching it doesn't mean anything in a larger sex scale."

[rhiannonhero]

Yes, I agree, Lola. I also think that Olli will probably avoid doing that very thing. It is unlikely that he'd want to admit how important flirting is to him. As you put it, Olli would have to know himself, and I think that Olli is not the most self-aware individual. Not that he's totally un-self-aware, but I think he is, of the two of them, the lesser so. I think Christian is much more aware of his own failings and issues, perhaps that is in itself one of Christian's issues, i.e. being too self aware.

I was saying to a friend elsewhere that, strangely enough, even though I think Olli was wrong, I'd be more upset/disappointed if he started behaving out of character. I don't mind characters having personality flaws that cause drama/tension if they are realistic and believable ones, which I think Olli's is definitely.

[sheepiefarm]

It hangs together extremely well rhiannonhero

(imo) Olli didn't actually fire Christian. He just said it as a statement of fact. "We have a problem working together - we should not work together anymore - you're role is less important than mine - you should go"

In actual fact it is not an unrealistic sense of logic to have - the glaring problem is the way he said it (and the timing of it)

Olli has always been the driving force of the relationship and has always gotten his own way. In the early days he was always a lot more careful of how he approached these matters with Christian, however, I think he has reached a new level of confidence with Christian (it might even be considered as arrogance) and to this end a certain level of complacency has set in.
He has basically just said to Christian "you will change your entire daily life because our relationship needs you to" and not only said it in a nonchalant manner but his whole body language (lying down not even looking at Christian) is implying that Christian will obey his command.

I do not follow spoilers anymore so I'm aware that many of you are already aware of how this pans out but I'm figuring that at some point Olli will play his trump card.

"I did it for you?"

It matters not to Olli that all the self-sacrifice he made during the early days of the relationship was of his own volition and not necessarily because Christian asked him too (in fact on many occasions expressed concern about it). As far as Olli is concerned he is "owed that much".

[sheepiefarm]

I think Olli is totally self-aware - even more so than Christian.

Olli is a manipulator - temper tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants.
Olli was completely aware of the flirting - because in his mind that's all it was - he sees no harm in it because that is how HE gets what he wants from people, therefore recognises it when it is happening to him and actively plays along "if the end justifies the means"

[rhiannonhero]

Jun 20, 2009 13:14:52 GMT -5 sheepiefarm said:

I think Olli is totally self-aware - even more so than Christian.

Olli is a manipulator - temper tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants.
Olli was completely aware of the flirting - because in his mind that's all it was - he sees no harm in it because that is how HE gets what he wants from people, therefore recognises it when it is happening to him and actively plays along "if the end justifies the means"

Hmm, I'm not sure. I'll have to think about it. If Olli is completely aware of how his behavior affects other people, then I think that he'd have to be a pretty big asshole, and I'm not willing to say that about him. Yet. Let me think it over a bit. *ponders*

I'm not saying that what you describe is inaccurate in many ways. I just wonder if we aren't using two different definitions of "self-aware" here. Kind of like Christian and Oliver use two different definitions for "flirting".

[rhiannonhero]

Jun 20, 2009 13:05:58 GMT -5 sheepiefarm said:

It hangs together extremely well rhiannonhero

(imo) Olli didn't actually fire Christian. He just said it as a statement of fact. "We have a problem working together - we should not work together anymore - you're role is less important than mine - you should go"

In actual fact it is not an unrealistic sense of logic to have - the glaring problem is the way he said it (and the timing of it)

Olli has always been the driving force of the relationship and has always gotten his own way. In the early days he was always a lot more careful of how he approached these matters with Christian, however, I think he has reached a new level of confidence with Christian (it might even be considered as arrogance) and to this end a certain level of complacency has set in.
He has basically just said to Christian "you will change your entire daily life because our relationship needs you to" and not only said it in a nonchalant manner but his whole body language (lying down not even looking at Christian) is implying that Christian will obey his command.

I do not follow spoilers anymore so I'm aware that many of you are already aware of how this pans out but I'm figuring that at some point Olli will play his trump card.

"I did it for you?"

It matters not to Olli that all the self-sacrifice he made during the early days of the relationship was of his own volition and not necessarily because Christian asked him too (in fact on many occasions expressed concern about it). As far as Olli is concerned he is "owed that much".

I absolutely agree with this part of your take on Olli, fwiw.

ETA: Here's where I don't think Olli is self aware . I do NOT think that he ever for a moment recognizes any of what you say above. I think he absolutely does those things, but I do not think he thinks to himself, "How can I manipulate Christian to do what I want him to do?" I think that he totally believes that everything he does is for Christian, for them, etc. I don't think he's actually aware of how he manipulates. If he was...then he'd be Olivia and not Olli.

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 20, 2009 13:19:50 GMT -5 rhiannonhero said:

If Olli is completely aware of how his behavior affects other people,

Yes - we may be coming at it from a different angle.
I don't think Olli aways realises how his behaviour affects other people because in essence our behaviour is designed to "attract" what we want from others. To this end Olli's behaviour is about the "reaction" he wants to get - and sometimes this single mindedness makes him unaware of how others are affected by it.

His anger & frustration with Christian is because Christian's reaction to his own behaviour "got in the way" of the end result he was trying to achieve (the endorsement from the critic).
It would seem that he is now trying to remedy manipulate that by removing Christian from the situation.


ETA - lol - the board moves faster than I can read & type replies
As to your last post - I agree - Olli is completely unaware that he manipulates people - but that is the essence of how he can do it - his hurt & rejected attitude when people accuse him of it is genuine.

[rhiannonhero]

I can agree to an extent, but I also think that the fight was excruciating to Olli. He seemed incredibly torn up about it, almost desperately so, and from what I understood, he wanted to talk it out the night before, but Christian wouldn't even talk to him, so I think that for him, it isn't about remedying the situation so that Christian won't get in the way of future end results, but remedying the situation so that they will not have a fight like that again, because no matter what Christian says about not over reacting like that in the future, um, yeah, that's b.s. because Christian can't change that aspect of himself any more than Olli could change his flirtations. I really think Olli was on the verge of losing it when he thought it might be over between them. As was Christian, which is nice, because at least it hurts them both when they fight.

So, I think that it is less about the end result with the critic, and more about the end result with Christian, but it is still very much Olli's way to just decide how it is going to be, and I think that I'll be shocked if Christian doesn't fall into line pretty quickly. Because that's how they work. Like it or not. *shrug*

[lolaruns]

I think for Olli flirting represents freedom to some extent. And I can't say that I don't identify with him not wanting to give that up. Nor can I say that don't understand his wish to pick the right battles.

I also think that there is lots and lots of deep insecurity in him. If he said out loud that he wants to flirt but would never actually do anything it would expose that his position of power is not actually that strong. If he keeps flirting he keeps Christian on his toes and keeps Christian from taking him for granted. If Christian knew that Olli would never actually do anything then Christian can do anything and Olli has no power to strike back.

I actually think Olli's flirting and Christian's anger and moralizing are two sides of the same coin and serve exactly the same function.

Olli's flirting keeps Christian afraid if he'll wonder what Olli will do (he doesn't understand it, it's unpredictable), while Christian's tantrums keep Olli afraid because he has to wonder what will happen should he ever find himself on the wrong moral side by Christian's definition. Hence his desire to hide the deeper issue.

And unlike others I actually think that in this sense Christian is less insecure. I think he actually knows more that Olli wouldn't cheat on him (or he wouldn't have taken Ibiza so well) he just tries to curtail Olli's behavior into something he finds more acceptable/pleasing. And I also think that there is a good dose of pure ego involved rather than insecurity in not wanting anybody to touch Olli even if he knows it doesn't mean anything.

I think Olli is much more worried that Christian might one day walk out on him should he walk into one of those moral dangerzones (it's just everything else that is harmless). Otherwise he wouldn't try to hide those issues. Probably because he knows that it might be final and that it would be *real* to Christian rather than just being a mindgame and that in that situation manipulation might no longer help. Isn't that deep insecurity too? What if Christian sees the real me, deems me immoral and walks out on me? To me that also fits perfectly with Olli trying to be always pleasant and generic, never talking much about his family past and truly personal history.

I think that I'll be shocked if Christian doesn't fall into line pretty quickly. Because that's how they work. Like it or not. *shrug*

Sure he will. But how long can Olli play that game without eventually pissing Christian off after all?

[rhiannonhero]

Lola, all I can say to that is, dang, that deserves a high-five. I utterly agree!

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 20, 2009 13:38:07 GMT -5 rhiannonhero said:

I can agree to an extent, but I also think that the fight was excruciating to Olli. He seemed incredibly torn up about it, almost desperately so, and from what I understood, he wanted to talk it out the night before, but Christian wouldn't even talk to him, so I think that for him, it isn't about remedying the situation so that Christian won't get in the way of future end results, but remedying the situation so that they will not have a fight like that again, because no matter what Christian says about not over reacting like that in the future, um, yeah, that's b.s. because Christian can't change that aspect of himself any more than Olli could change his flirtations. I really think Olli was on the verge of losing it when he thought it might be over between them. As was Christian, which is nice, because at least it hurts them both when they fight.

You could well be right - but I would've hoped that if it was for the benefit of "them" and their "relationship" he would've had the respect to realise the enormity of what he was asking and taken the time to discuss the effect that working together was having on thier relationship.
That would suggest to me that their relationship was first & foremost in his considerations

So, I think that it is less about the end result with the critic, and more about the end result with Christian, but it is still very much Olli's way to just decide how it is going to be, and I think that I'll be shocked if Christian doesn't fall into line pretty quickly. Because that's how they work. Like it or not. *shrug*

They are the yin to the others yang - that's what makes them work so well as a couple - I suspect Christian will fall into line too

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 20, 2009 13:40:32 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

I think that I'll be shocked if Christian doesn't fall into line pretty quickly. Because that's how they work. Like it or not. *shrug*

Sure he will. But how long can Olli play that game without eventually pissing Christian off after all?

The million dollar question - it will happen - eventually

Everything else I agree with Lola

[lolaruns]

Jun 20, 2009 13:43:10 GMT -5 rhiannonhero said:

Lola, all I can say to that is, dang, that deserves a high-five. I utterly agree!

Hence Olli being my pick for the one who would fall apart completely if Christian left, not Christian (presuming that Olli left over something reasonably sane).

It's probably Olli's curse that he is the real king of insecurity but Christian takes people for face value and therefore doesn't dig deeper in order to find the true root of his insecurity. That naturally might be rather practical for Olli, but is it truly healthy? Especially since Christian is probably the kind who would just wait for Olli to volunteer that kind of information himself while Olli might not he kind who would ever give it out freely, no matter how secure he feels.

It's like living your life in eternal denial of reality.

The million dollar question - it will happen - eventually

I hope it will. Otherwise, I'm not sure if I could ever see Ollian as a positive example of a gay relationship again. And to me Christian does rage against Olli. And to me that rage is something healthy. Even if one doesn't see it as dramatic, it's good that somebody questions Olli's idea. It's good that Olli has to second guess them before being sure of them.

Hence me being creeped out when people suggest that Christian's anger is something that has to be matured away. To me Christian's anger is what balances out Olli's control. It needs to grow together or diminish together. But one can't go away while the other increases. It would be the same if Olli actually faced his fears and learned to give up control and let himself fall inside the relationship while at the same time Christian became more angry, more moralizing and more demanding.

[rhiannonhero]

I think that it could conceivably go on rather indefinitely where Olli makes an insecure and desperate bid for control, and Christian rages against it, and they settle somewhere in the middle. (Assuming that where they settle actually is in the middle and not just Christian letting him have his way.) I'd say that Olli has already altered his boundaries and behaviors quite significantly for his relationship with Christian, so it isn't like it is his way or the highway. I don't even know if Christian is entirely aware of just how much Olli has altered his boundaries and behaviors for him. So, basically, I think that in general (and depending on how this all plays out, maybe this time, too) they usually fall somewhere in the middle, even if it looks like Christian being the one to give in all of the time.

Anyway, I think that so long as Olli isn't allowed to be abusive in his control issues, then they can still be quite healthy in their relationship, without either of them having to change significantly.

Again, though, it all depends on how things play out going forward. As you point out, they are usually rather precariously balanced with Olli's control issues and Christian's anger, and if one or the other fades away and the counterbalance doesn't, then there is a definite problem that the relationship would likely not survive.

However, I don't think that these issues have to actually fade away for them to be healthy together. I think Olli can be a control freak forever, and Christian can deal with anger in below the belt ways forever, and so long as they stay within a certain boundary line with both of them, they can be happy and healthy in their relationship, overall.

A real relationship involves people with real personality conflicts, etc, and that's what I think these characters are so good at portraying. Personally, I'd be bored if they started being really perfect all the darn time.

This isn't a disagreement with anything you've said about Olli or Christian, Lola, as I find your analysis of the situation rather spot on, but I don't necessarily agree that for me to find them a positive example of a gay relationship that these issues would need to be addressed and resolved, though, perhaps that isn't what you were saying.

Only moderately related: What did you make of Olli's response to Christian's question, "Are you done?" Which was translated as, "With what? With my life? With you?" I'm curious how others took that line, because I pretty much took it as Olli admitting that Christian held all of the power in that moment. Like ALL OF IT.

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 20, 2009 14:02:31 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

Hence Olli being my pick for the one who would fall apart completely if Christian left, not Christian (presuming that Olli left over something reasonably sane).

"If" Christian were the one to leave Olli's world would collapse.
Olli doesn't have very big ideas or ambitions, but when he sets his sights on something he goes "all-out" to achieve it. Getting Christian was one such achievement and Olli threw everything he had at it in order to get it. Not only would he be bereft of Christians love but he would be ultimately defeated in his "achievement". His insecurities about himself would run riot - especially if the reason Christian had left was because of Olli's actions rather than, say, another person.

It's probably Olli's curse that he is the real king of insecurity but Christian takes people for face value and therefore doesn't dig deeper in order to find the true root of his insecurity. That naturally might be rather practical for Olli, but is it truly healthy? Especially since Christian is probably the kind who would just wait for Olli to volunteer that kind of information himself while Olli might not he kind who would ever give it out freely, no matter how secure he feels.

It's like living your life in eternal denial of reality.

No - I don't think that it's particularly healthy for Olli in a long-term relationship - but again, this boils down to Olli's self-sacrificing way of loving. The trust that Olli would need to eventually start divulging his "inner-self" to Christian might come after a long time in the relationship - it's only been a year.

The million dollar question - it will happen - eventually

I hope it will. Otherwise, I'm not sure if I could ever see Ollian as a positive example of a gay relationship again. And to me Christian does rage against Olli. And to me that rage is something healthy. Even if one doesn't see it as dramatic, it's good that somebody questions Olli's idea. It's good that Olli has to second guess them before being sure of them.

It's what makes them work as a couple - Christian needs Olli to push him (even if he doesn't realise it) but at the same time Olli needs Christians pragmatism to pull him back into line - if Christian wasn't the bull tempered guy that he is Olli would end up completely suffocating the relationship.

Hence me being creeped out when people suggest that Christian's anger is something that has to be matured away. To me Christian's anger is what balances out Olli's control. It needs to grow together or diminish together. But one can't go away while the other increases. It would be the same if Olli actually faced his fears and learned to give up control and let himself fall inside the relationship while at the same time Christian became more angry, more moralizing and more demanding.

LOL - Lola - when did you & I reach the same page with these two - I remember a time when we used to have to agree to disagree (or not) ;D

[lolaruns]

For the record, chances are that this is all pure fanwankery and we are just taking out of our butts and things will never get quite as extreme as we imagine it.

Personally, I would enjoy it a lot if Olli was actually persented as thoughtful on Monday and could give good reason and seem believable in that he doesn't do it for his own gain/that he maybe even does it against his gain because he would actually much rather be close to Christian. You know, love wins out and all that.

Let's see what the writers will do with it.

[rhiannonhero]

And for now, yay for fanwankery! It's the stuff fandom is made of!

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 20, 2009 14:35:43 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

For the record, chances are that this is all pure fanwankery and we are just taking out of our butts and things will never get quite as extreme as we imagine it.

I'm taking nothing out of my butt ;D ;D

[lolaruns]

I blame my keyboard on my laptop ;D

Personally, I still think if the relationship with Christian failed, Olli would end up like Charlie. Charlie who leads a mostly full life, charming, extravagant, in charge of her own thing, but I do think that she still feels like someting is missing. She makes a brave face about it, supports her loved ones, is jovial and close to friends and family, adopts various cute and interesting people into her inner circle family, etc but not capable of a longterm relationship (and trying to brush that aside).