Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 18:27:41 GMT -5
Two words for this episode: too much. The pacing and the knowledge of what was coming made it difficult for me to find it truly riveting. The actors are awesome, but that juxtaposition was completely unnecessary IMO. Something was lacking for me, on all fronts, despite the actors' great performances. Honestly, I didn't even have time to feel happy or sad. I’m just glad we’re finally here though. At least those guys (especially Barry today) don't disappoint and give me something to miss when...
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Post by amber80 on Sept 4, 2008 18:31:24 GMT -5
Amber, so it was good for you? Did you focus on JP/Craig and their reunion sex? Uhm. Not at all. To be honest: I could hardly wait for the camera to get back at Kieron/Niall. It was about them; not about the JPC sex. Of course I was curious; I've always liked JPC, just as I liked JPK. But seeing JPC fall back into to the old pattern: not communicating and the main focus on the sex didn't make me happy at all. I still think this is all wayyyyy to rushed, unlike the Niall drama. Briliant. I was more than impressed. If I'm completely honest: I think I would have liked today's episode even better if it would have been just Kieron / Niall. Like Macari says: a bit too much.
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sozment
Junior Member
Forget regret or life is yours to miss
Posts: 648
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Post by sozment on Sept 4, 2008 19:05:19 GMT -5
As I said on the blog comments, I'm a big Craig/JP fan and I loved that they are back together. I had stopped watching when Craig left for Dublin (I tried for a while, but lost interest.) I guess without him, I wasn't as interested in just JP. And definitely wasn't into the JP/K thing.
But I was so brokenhearted watching Kieron today. I felt so sorry for him, for his fans and I think it was very unfair to kill him off like that. I wish for the JPK fans as well as the JPC fans that they had did it some other way.
The guy that played Naill ( Barry?) was just amazing...wow... Maybe I should have kept watching.
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neand48
Full Member
'It isn't about who has the power or who doesn't, but the power you share when you love each other.'
Posts: 1,154
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Post by neand48 on Sept 4, 2008 19:19:17 GMT -5
Absolutely superb acting... How do the Brits manage to get such incredibly talented people... All other soaps pale in comparison with the possible exception of El Cor de la Ciutat... I had a lump in my throat throughout and I still have to swallow mighty hard as I'm typing this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2008 19:29:54 GMT -5
Absolutely superb acting... How do the Brits manage to get such incredibly talented people... All other soaps pale in comparison with the possible exception of El Cor de la Ciutat... This is very true. Those people know and work their craft. It's such a shame we have to say goodbye to so many of those talents so fast. Despite the unevenness and imbalance I felt during this episode (which has pretty much nothing to do with them), I could never dismiss those guys' amazing abilities.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 4, 2008 19:50:45 GMT -5
I have seen pts 2 and 3, the Crumpets youtube version, and DAMN that was rough. I started crying when Kieron begged for JP to be left alone and started vomiting. AND TPTB THOUGHT THAT SLOW POISONING WAS LESS GRAPHIC THAN HANGING? I can't even get in to the JP/C stuff because I didn't care for how C came on to JP at the house. I like that Craig admitted how torn up he'd been since leaving JP, but sometimes no means no. It was too forceful, IMO, and it reminded me too much of his brother, Jake Dean. Remember Jake and Nancy's wedding night? Exactly. Kieron and Niall's scenes were amazing despite being difficult to watch. Also hard was JP crying while the coroner zipped up the body bag. I am sure I will have more to say later but for now, I need to process. ETA, so there is no misunderstanding, I will clarify by posting here the same thing I posted on the blog when someone was too linear to understand what I meant: bonobochick are you suggesting craig was trying to rape jp!? hahahahahahaha.. some people, honestly.. this ep reminded you of jakes *attempted rape* of nancy how exactly?!I don't think Craig would rape John Paul but it was too forceful an approach and not in any way romantic. There was a desperation behind it that reminded me of Jake when he thought he was losing Nancy. That is not good. So yea, "some people" weren't moved by forceful desperation in that scene. "Some people" would have prefered the scene to play out differently between JP/C especially considering what what was going on with Niall & Kieron at the same time. I didn't like what I saw and would rather it not have been like that but it fit right in with everything else rushed along this past week regarding this storyline.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 4, 2008 20:16:17 GMT -5
Craig lunging at John Paul reminded me of a similar scene between him and Sarah that happened last year. In my opinion, the writers never addressed the seriousness of what he did to her, and that's one of the reasons why I can't get behind Craul (tm snicks at After Elton). This is a show that prides itself on its socially based storylines, but in my opinion, they never really addressed the abusive nature of the Craig and Sarah pairing or the Craig and John Paul pairing. They did have John Paul tell Craig that he deserved better, but that was after months of not doing anything. Unfortunately, Sarah didn't even get to do that, they actually had her beg Craig twice to take her back.
The whole thing is disgusting, especially since this show's target audience is teens and young adults.
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Post by jsg03jd on Sept 4, 2008 21:39:32 GMT -5
Two words for this episode: too much. The pacing and the knowledge of what was coming made it difficult for me to find it truly riveting. The actors are awesome, but that juxtaposition was completely unnecessary IMO. Something was lacking for me, on all fronts, despite the actors' great performances. Honestly, I didn't even have time to feel happy or sad. I’m just glad we’re finally here though. At least those guys (especially Barry today) don't disappoint and give me something to miss when... THANK YOU! I wrote the same thing about the juxtaposition in crumpets's channel on youtube. As I posted in a separate thread, the episode asked way too much of the viewer, especially a viewer who cared and had a stake in any one of the characters. And what was Kieron saying to Niall before he died? Between the accent and Kieron grasping for air, the only thing I could really understand was, "Not my John Paul." and at that moment I just lost it. And then to flash to the next scene with McDean in bed... My God. What a brutal episode today.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 4, 2008 22:38:58 GMT -5
He said, "Please, do not hurt my John Paul". Kieron, being nice, caring, considerate and loving into his bitter ending.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 4, 2008 23:16:39 GMT -5
I'm not even really bitter about Kieron dying, because THAT PART made sense. He found out about Niall and he couldn't allow Kieron to spoil his plans of revenge against a family that he truly hates. He's too far gone, in his hatred to love Myra and the rest of her children. I'm surprised that he THINKS that he's in love with Steph, because it's not love, as his foster mother stated. It's obession. He THINKS he'll be "happy" if Steph's in his life. But, he'll get rid of anyone (Mandy, Tom, the other sister, Steph's family), who makes him feel like they're threat to his "happiness" with Steph in the future. When he had that conversation with Mandy and he told her that NOBODY could say what he and Steph could do, with their feelings about each other.
There's no turning back for him.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 8:59:00 GMT -5
Here's AfterElton's recap of yesterday's amazing episode. www.afterelton.com/blog/snick...arwell-camilleAlso, the Editor of AE gave the show a 'thumbs up' for this week's episodes. www.afterelton.com/bgwe/9-5-08?page=0%2C4Quote: HOLLYOAKS: If I'd already seen tomorrow's episode this would definitely be a down arrow no matter how good it is. Actually, I commend the show for treating its gay characters the same as its straight ones even if it means, well, never mind that. Even though I can't stand Craig, he's coming across as a good guy while Niall is the perfect superhot revenge seeking nut every soap opera needs. As for Kieron, sometimes fate — and writers — are mean SOB's.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 5, 2008 11:47:41 GMT -5
I don't think Kieron's death made sense from the stand point of Kieron threatening to tell Myra that Niall is her son. Really, Kieron had no right or duty to tell Myra about Niall. If Bob Smith, who Kieron doesn't know, was Myra's son, and he decided that he didn't want to have a relationship with Myra, Kieron wouldn't have the right to tell Myra your son is Bob Smith and you can find him working in the SU Bar. Kieron who keeps everyone's secrets, wouldn't have outed Niall, if that's not what he wanted. Kieron would have urged Niall to come clean, but he wouldn't have threatened to out him himself.
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louisa
Junior Member
Thanks to rayslady for the Merlin slashiness!
Posts: 463
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Post by louisa on Sept 5, 2008 12:48:08 GMT -5
I don't think Kieron's death made sense from the stand point of Kieron threatening to tell Myra that Niall is her son. Really, Kieron had no right or duty to tell Myra about Niall. If Bob Smith, who Kieron doesn't know, was Myra's son, and he decided that he didn't want to have a relationship with Myra, Kieron wouldn't have the right to tell Myra your son is Bob Smith and you can find him working in the SU Bar. Kieron who keeps everyone's secrets, wouldn't have outed Niall, if that's not what he wanted. Kieron would have urged Niall to come clean, but he wouldn't have threatened to out him himself. I think you're right with your assessment of Kieron's character. Unfortunately that's the logical and rational conclusion to come to and I don't think "logical" and "rational" are words that can be applied to Niall's character. It makes sense for an exposed and panicked Niall to remove the perceived threat (poor Kieron). The fact that this would also hurt a McQueen was a bonus for him. And so, we have to say goodbye to Kieron.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 13:03:59 GMT -5
I agree with you, Louisa on "logical and rational" not being used for Niall. At this point, Niall's obessed with destroying the Myra and the McQueens for her abandoning him, when he was a baby. For her rejection of him being her child. Didn't he say that she "replaced him" by having 6 other children, that she chose to keep, to raise on her own? Then, his obession with Steph, has kept him going as well. Here, he thinks that if he can get her to chose him, be with him, love him, then he's someone worthy of love. He's someone that won't be rejected anymore. The upcoming couple of months are going to be interesting with this character and his actions. I don't think Kieron's death made sense from the stand point of Kieron threatening to tell Myra that Niall is her son. Really, Kieron had no right or duty to tell Myra about Niall. If Bob Smith, who Kieron doesn't know, was Myra's son, and he decided that he didn't want to have a relationship with Myra, Kieron wouldn't have the right to tell Myra your son is Bob Smith and you can find him working in the SU Bar. Kieron who keeps everyone's secrets, wouldn't have outed Niall, if that's not what he wanted. Kieron would have urged Niall to come clean, but he wouldn't have threatened to out him himself. I think you're right with your assessment of Kieron's character. Unfortunately that's the logical and rational conclusion to come to and I don't think "logical" and "rational" are words that can be applied to Niall's character. It makes sense for an exposed and panicked Niall to remove the perceived threat (poor Kieron). The fact that this would also hurt a McQueen was a bonus for him. And so, we have to say goodbye to Kieron.
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Post by jsg03jd on Sept 5, 2008 13:10:35 GMT -5
He said, "Please, do not hurt my John Paul". Kieron, being nice, caring, considerate and loving into his bitter ending. Some nice person over at youtube helped me out with what I couldn't understand in Kieron's dying declaration. Kieron told Niall, "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... Promise that you won't hurt them anymore.. Not my John Paul... Promise me that." I still can't get over that line. Jake's performance just devastated me. It was incredibly tragic and yet poignantly beautiful that even in his dying breath, Kieron only looked after John Paul's safety and interests. I'll miss Kieron and Jake so much... I really don't have to words to describe it...
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 13:15:28 GMT -5
Thanks for getting the complete and correct "last words" for Kieron. Sigh. He's just a lovely character. He said, "Please, do not hurt my John Paul". Kieron, being nice, caring, considerate and loving into his bitter ending. Some nice person over at youtube helped me out with what I couldn't understand in Kieron's dying declaration. Kieron told Niall, "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... Promise that you won't hurt them anymore.. Not my John Paul... Promise me that." I still can't get over that line. Jake's performance just devastated me. It was incredibly tragic and yet poignantly beautiful that even in his dying breath, Kieron only looked after John Paul's safety and interests. I'll miss Kieron and Jake so much... I really don't have to words to describe it...
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 5, 2008 13:27:29 GMT -5
The beautiful part about that is that he's even showing compassion for Niall, despite the fact that Niall is killing him. He said, "Please, do not hurt my John Paul". Kieron, being nice, caring, considerate and loving into his bitter ending. Some nice person over at youtube helped me out with what I couldn't understand in Kieron's dying declaration. Kieron told Niall, "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... Promise that you won't hurt them anymore.. Not my John Paul... Promise me that." I still can't get over that line. Jake's performance just devastated me. It was incredibly tragic and yet poignantly beautiful that even in his dying breath, Kieron only looked after John Paul's safety and interests. I'll miss Kieron and Jake so much... I really don't have to words to describe it...
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 5, 2008 14:28:41 GMT -5
I just read this and smiled at this comment: cause yes. It's nice to know that I wasn't alone in that moment being off. BTW, I voted waste of a good character.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 14:57:34 GMT -5
AE's blogs on HO always make me smile, because they're funny AND they're appreciative of a nice, kind and wonderful character that recently was killed off on the show. *Sigh* That scene between JPC really wasn't hot, romantic or necessary in my opinion. But, that's just me. I voted "waste of a good character" as well. I'm not sorry, but that's what I truly believe. I just read this and smiled at this comment: cause yes. It's nice to know that I wasn't alone in that moment being off. BTW, I voted waste of a good character.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 5, 2008 15:12:59 GMT -5
He said, "Please, do not hurt my John Paul". Kieron, being nice, caring, considerate and loving into his bitter ending. Some nice person over at youtube helped me out with what I couldn't understand in Kieron's dying declaration. Kieron told Niall, "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... Promise that you won't hurt them anymore.. Not my John Paul... Promise me that." I still can't get over that line. Jake's performance just devastated me. It was incredibly tragic and yet poignantly beautiful that even in his dying breath, Kieron only looked after John Paul's safety and interests. I'll miss Kieron and Jake so much... I really don't have to words to describe it... Going over yesterday's TGODT blog comments on the episode, someone posted JP's words when he found Kieron which I remember tearing up at while watching but seeing Kieron's last words makes me think of JP's "Sweetheart... Sweetheart, what have you taken" to Kieron all over again.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 5, 2008 16:32:51 GMT -5
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 17:01:38 GMT -5
I can honestly say that I feel that JP was grieving for both Kieron and himself. He knows that he loved that man (not in the same way that he loves Craig, but it was still love that the couple shared) and that he treated him badly for the past couple of days, because he couldn't be honest with him. Of course, he's going to be grieving for himself. He feels guilt. He should feel guilt.
Then, you have Craig, replying with an "Oh, please", because JP needs to have time by himself to deal with his mother kicking him out of the house, because of what they did the night before? He (JP) is disgusted with himself.
What does it really matter if Kieron didn't know about JP's plan to let him know about those two becoming a couple again? That's not going to absolve the feelings of guilt that JP's going to have. He would be inhumane if he didn't have feelings of guilt. He was with Kieron for 6 months.
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Simone
Junior Member
Posts: 276
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Post by Simone on Sept 5, 2008 17:29:28 GMT -5
I cannot believe that you posted those spoilers substituting Michaela's nickname for Craig, "Prune Face." Seriously, how old are you? Whether you did that or not, it is something that a six year old would do. I admit might that I might be insulting a six year old here. This just evidence that despite the pretense of the JPK fans that they are so different and mature than the McDeaners, the whole lot of you are ridiculous. Makes me even more glad that BK killed off Kieron and spoiled the "pristine" sunset ending. Neither bunch deserves to be completely happy.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 5, 2008 17:37:18 GMT -5
Can I just say that insulting a whole group of fans based on the actions of one person, isn't exactly a mature thing to do. Nor is sticking your tongue out and saying that's why your favorite character died. I cannot believe that you posted those spoilers substituting Michaela's nickname for Craig, "Prune Face." Seriously, how old are you? Whether you did that or not, it is something that a six year old would do. I admit might that I might be insulting a six year old here. This just evidence that despite the pretense of the JPK fans that they are so different and mature than the McDeaners, the whole lot of you are ridiculous. Makes me even more glad that BK killed off Kieron and spoiled the "pristine" sunset ending. Neither bunch deserves to be completely happy.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 5, 2008 18:35:05 GMT -5
Actually, Simone I'm 36 years old and I didn't notice that Craig's name was substituted with PRUNE FACE, so I do apologize to anyone that was offended by it. I was just posting the spoilers to this site. When I'm on my laptop. I'll make the changes back for you, personally.
I also, deeply apologize to all the Niall Rafferty fans on the forum as well. That character's name was substituted with KIERON KILLER.
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