Skam

[mizuryuu]

It wouldn't be a a show if they don't find some way to add drama. Usually, in these cases, that mean the characters hiding they are gay so other characters will act shocked and lied to.

I don't think it is that surprising that Isak is in the closet despite living away from his parents. It doesn't look like he fully accepted that he is gay yet and is living in denial. You can see that from his online test for gayness. He is trying to find any excuse to lie to himself that he is not gay. While us, the audience, can clearly see that he has a crush on Even, he is probably telling himself that he just want to be good friends with Even.

[kevvoi]

Next part courtesy of Isak&Even Skam:

[justinate]

Sigh ... could this be any more paint by numbers? So now Isak feels the need to flaunt his "heterosexuality" by expressing homophobic views to which no one in his circle of friends subscribes.

It's ironic how this is the second episode this season which has focused on the sexual appeal of female bodies ... for a season that was supposed to revolve around a gay character. I guess they don't dare to show anything too sexual with half-naked guys in case the militant activist brigade hounds them again. I don't think this was the original intention of the season, based on the very sensual trailer - so it looks to me like they changed the storyline in response to the nonsensical backlash that followed it.

So we wind up with Isak being depicted as more curious about women's bodies than he is about other boys'. His friend has sex dreams about a girl in dominatrix gear, but Isak is chastely dreaming about Romeo & Juliet. Frankly, he comes off as asexual, more than anything else. Maybe that will be the conclusion of this season. Isak will have sex with Emma and decide it's not for him - but nor is gay sex (which he won't even bother trying). He will want an emotional, not physical, relationship with Even. That in itself - a relationship, even non-sexual, with another boy - will be enough to set his mother off and provide the necessary drama. At the end of it everyone gets educated about asexuality - no sex please, we're Norwegian! - and we will move on to Emma as the central character of season 4 (where she will have the customary sexual relationship).

Last Sunday the USA remake of Øyevitne (Eyewitness) premiered and contrary to all expectations, they did not downplay the gay couple's relationship - instead they actually sexed it up more than the original. It just seals the irony of the decline in gay representation on Norwegian TV. I guess I ought to have learned my lesson from Hotel Caesar's treatment of their gay character.

[frokes]

The actor who plays Isak is only 17. And the actor who plays Eskild is busy with studying drama at the Oslo National Academy of Art, so whatever they had planned for Eskild's storyline has probably been modified. I feel that the scriptwriter is making the most out of making a conflict everywhere that it is possible, which is typical for scriptwriting because obviously the characters would solve their problems faster if they dared to talk with each other. If Isak turns out to be asexual that would be a great way to create representation for a group that rarely is mentioned in Norwegian media and also rarely is represented in Norwegian literature and films.

Obviously, Norwegian TV series rarely feature LGBT characters that have storylines outside of the stereotyped stories. Personally I can't wait to see what Even will do in the upcoming episodes. I also hope Jonas manages to communicate to Isak that there is no need to express homophobic views. And I think Isak is also struggling because his mother is religious (she has sent Isak quotes from the Bible).

One of the actors who played the gay characters in Øyevitne was younger than 18 when they were filming the series (the filming started in 2012 according to this article: www.nrk.no/kultur/oyevitne-1.8016069). Hotel Cæsar is a soap, and all its storylines reflect that. That being said, it is lovely that the remake of Øyevitne hasn't downplayed the gay couple's relationship!

[overtherainbow]

Oct 19, 2016 11:52:20 GMT -5 frokes said:

The actor who plays Isak is only 17. And the actor who plays Eskild is busy with studying drama at the Oslo National Academy of Art, so whatever they had planned for Eskild's storyline has probably been modified. I feel that the scriptwriter is making the most out of making a conflict everywhere that it is possible, which is typical for scriptwriting because obviously the characters would solve their problems faster if they dared to talk with each other. If Isak turns out to be asexual that would be a great way to create representation for a group that rarely is mentioned in Norwegian media and also rarely is represented in Norwegian literature and films.

Obviously, Norwegian TV series rarely feature LGBT characters that have storylines outside of the stereotyped stories. Personally I can't wait to see what Even will do in the upcoming episodes. I also hope Jonas manages to communicate to Isak that there is no need to express homophobic views. And I think Isak is also struggling because his mother is religious (she has sent Isak quotes from the Bible).

One of the actors who played the gay characters in Øyevitne was younger than 18 when they were filming the series (the filming started in 2012 according to this article: www.nrk.no/kultur/oyevitne-1.8016069). Hotel Cæsar is a soap, and all its storylines reflect that. That being said, it is lovely that the remake of Øyevitne hasn't downplayed the gay couple's relationship!

I'm sorry but NOPE. This sh*t doesn't fly with me. Yet ANOTHER asexual gay male character?!??! Are you kidding me? You keep making excuses for the show. Most gay male characters on tv are already neutered and asexual these days. I also think in 9 out of 10 times it's NOT because they want to portray an asexual gay character, but because they neuter them because gay sex is still taboo. IF the show does that to Isak too then well I'm done with the show. It's unacceptable in 2016 that they censor a gay character. Oh, and you can tell yourself all you want that he is supposed to be a asexual, but I think in this case it's more about censoring than anything else.

[frokes]

Oct 20, 2016 0:20:40 GMT -5 overtherainbow said:

Oct 19, 2016 11:52:20 GMT -5 frokes said:

The actor who plays Isak is only 17. And the actor who plays Eskild is busy with studying drama at the Oslo National Academy of Art, so whatever they had planned for Eskild's storyline has probably been modified. I feel that the scriptwriter is making the most out of making a conflict everywhere that it is possible, which is typical for scriptwriting because obviously the characters would solve their problems faster if they dared to talk with each other. If Isak turns out to be asexual that would be a great way to create representation for a group that rarely is mentioned in Norwegian media and also rarely is represented in Norwegian literature and films.

I'm sorry but NOPE. This sh*t doesn't fly with me. Yet ANOTHER asexual gay male character?!??! Are you kidding me? You keep making excuses for the show. Most gay male characters on tv are already neutered and asexual these days. I also think in 9 out of 10 times it's NOT because they want to portray an asexual gay character, but because they neuter them because gay sex is still taboo. IF the show does that to Isak too then well I'm done with the show. It's unacceptable in 2016 that they censor a gay character. Oh, and you can tell yourself all you want that he is supposed to be a asexual, but I think in this case it's more about censoring than anything else.

Please read the comment that justinate wrote before me. I'm not suggesting that Isak is asexual, I'm merely saying that for me it wouldn't matter if he was an asexual gay male because it would give the show's target group a feeling of representation. It was justinate who wrote that he perceived Isak as more on the asexual side. It's absolutely fine that you don't agree with my comments, @overtherainbow! And it's fine if you perceive it as though I'm making excuses for the show. That's your opinion. Thanks for your response, now I'm going to pull out of this discussion until you have a nicer tone in your posts and can be a bit more relaxed about what I and others write. This is just an online community. You should be able to discuss what I write without attacking me for making excuses for the show and suggesting that I tell myself that Isak is asexual. Instead you could point out other shows where there is an asexual gay male character and tell me why the target group of this show doesn't need Isak to be portrayed as an asexual gay male. Have a nice day, @overtherainbow!

[justinate]

I'm sorry for creating all this ruckus by suggesting Isak is being portrayed as asexual, rather than homosexual. The suggestion did originate from me, and I have based it on what I have seen of the season so far.

And I am also not okay with that. It would make the ending of seasons 1 and 2, as well as the season 3 trailer, examples of the most shameful and despicable gay-baiting I've ever seen anywhere in the world.
Season 1 finale: gay porn on Isak's phone.
Season 2 finale: insinuation that Isak and Eskild were having it off in the basement.
Season 3 trailer: Isak observing shirtless horseplay of his male classmates, and gets showered in milk.

If all this leads up to Isak declaring himself asexual - I think they have done the entire LGBTA community a massive disservice. And I seriously hope Norway is better than that.

I don't believe the show originally had a problem with depicting gay sex or male nudity (Eskild's naked blowjob in the season 2 opener was very convincing on that count). The problem only seems to have started with this season, which is why I am linking it back to the manufactured outrage by a small but very vocal band of militant activists. If the show has indeed quietly reworked Isak's storyline to pander to them, I am deeply disappointed and thoroughly disgusted. To give credence to those idiotic claims and consequently deprive a minority of representation for which they waited patiently through 2 seasons, it is truly a crime. I really, really hope to be proven wrong but we are now a third of the way into the season and there is no sign of things improving.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 20, 2016 1:41:37 GMT -5 frokes said:

Oct 20, 2016 0:20:40 GMT -5 overtherainbow said:

I'm sorry but NOPE. This sh*t doesn't fly with me. Yet ANOTHER asexual gay male character?!??! Are you kidding me? You keep making excuses for the show. Most gay male characters on tv are already neutered and asexual these days. I also think in 9 out of 10 times it's NOT because they want to portray an asexual gay character, but because they neuter them because gay sex is still taboo. IF the show does that to Isak too then well I'm done with the show. It's unacceptable in 2016 that they censor a gay character. Oh, and you can tell yourself all you want that he is supposed to be a asexual, but I think in this case it's more about censoring than anything else.

Please read the comment that justinate wrote before me. I'm not suggesting that Isak is asexual, I'm merely saying that for me it wouldn't matter if he was an asexual gay male because it would give the show's target group a feeling of representation. It was justinate who wrote that he perceived Isak as more on the asexual side. It's absolutely fine that you don't agree with my comments, @overtherainbow! And it's fine if you perceive it as though I'm making excuses for the show. That's your opinion. Thanks for your response, now I'm going to pull out of this discussion until you have a nicer tone in your posts and can be a bit more relaxed about what I and others write. This is just an online community. You should be able to discuss what I write without attacking me for making excuses for the show and suggesting that I tell myself that Isak is asexual. Instead you could point out other shows where there is an asexual gay male character and tell me why the target group of this show doesn't need Isak to be portrayed as an asexual gay male. Have a nice day, @overtherainbow!

I apologize for my tone. I wasn't mad at you, I was more mad at the show. My point is just that most shows already have asexual gay characters who never get to kiss or have sex. You asked me to give examples of shows that have asexual gays, it's hard. It would be easier if you asked me which shows have sexual gay characters because that list is much shorter.

Anyway, some shows with asexual gays: Modern Family, Arrow, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Agents of SHIELD, and this is just those I could come up with at the spot. There are many more. This is also the reason why I'm so upset by this season. I really expected more, especially from the trailer.

I agree with Justinate that it looks like everything has been toned down. I still wonder if they originally wanted to go a different direction with this season, for example having Even actually be bi or gay. I think they changed his sexuality so to not upset the homophobes and the body image brigade.

I don't have much hope for the rest of the season. Like Justinate said, we are one third into this season and Isak still hasn't properly explored his sexuality yet. It seems like a disservice to the entire gay community to drop the ball like this. This is not a realistic portrayal of gay teenagers. The storyline is censored. It's deeply offensive and borderline homophobic.

I want to stay hopeful, but it's really difficult. At this point I'm ashamed to be Norwegian because this gay storyline is one of the worst I've ever seen. On the bright side it can't get much worse than this, so it won't take much to turn it around. I fully expect the show to go through the entire season without Isak not even kissing another boy. We'll probably see him hook up with girls though, of course. His asexuality is only surfacing when it comes to his gay side. Like I said, I want the show to prove me wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

[frokes]

Apology accepted, @overtherainbow. Thanks for giving me examples! I definitely understand that people feel mad because of this storyline. Personally I think all the small clips posted each day make the storyline go by slowly because the big things usually happen on Fridays. That's probably the downside of the instant posts and uploads on Skam's website. Also, this year there was a newspaper article (in Klassekampen, you can find it online by googling "Få lesbiske på norsk TV" ("Few lesbians on Norwegian TV")) in Norway about the fact that LGBT people are rarely being depicted on Norwegian television, and that there are fewer depictions of LGBT women than LGBT men as well.

It was no problem, justinate. Ruckuses happen from time to time. I absolutely understand that you perceive the portrayal of Isak the way you do.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 20, 2016 11:40:26 GMT -5 frokes said:

Apology accepted, @overtherainbow. Thanks for giving me examples! I definitely understand that people feel mad because of this storyline. Personally I think all the small clips posted each day make the storyline go by slowly because the big things usually happen on Fridays. That's probably the downside of the instant posts and uploads on Skam's website. Also, this year there was a newspaper article (in Klassekampen, you can find it online by googling "Få lesbiske på norsk TV" ("Few lesbians on Norwegian TV")) in Norway about the fact that LGBT people are rarely being depicted on Norwegian television, and that there are fewer depictions of LGBT women than LGBT men as well.

It was no problem, justinate. Ruckuses happen from time to time. I absolutely understand that you perceive the portrayal of Isak the way you do.

There are few LGBT characters on Norwegian tv, period. It's not just a lesbian issues. Since 2014 we've had a total of two gay male storylines, not exactly a lot, though I do agree it's not looking better on the female side. However, there was a show like 4-5 years ago named Taxi that had lesbians, and they ACTUALLY got to kiss and have sex, unlike Isak. This is also something I see all the time. The lesbian characters get to have a love life, while the gay male characters are always neutered. It really sucks.

Anyway.. you're right, the small clips feel more like fillers, at least this season. I don't know if that's the point, but most of the action does seem to happen in those 10 or so minutes posted every Friday. So yeah.. I guess stuff can still happen between Isak and Even, I still hope he's bi or gay and closeted. I hope Isak at least gets to explore his sexuality this season. I mean, I'd like a sex scene of course, but I know the actor is only 17, so it might be asking for too much. At the very least I'd like him to kiss boys this season (whether Even or someone else). I'd prefer a gay love story, and I'd prefer it if Even was openly gay or bisexual (well.. I guess he still can be). I don't think that will happen though.

Maybe I'm so disappointed with this season because I had such high expectations. I wanted Isak to get a boyfriend and I wanted it to be a romantic love story. But that's not what I'm getting. It's more about how Isak deals with being gay and closeted. And honestly, until the last few clips, that was done well. But the last clip where Isak started throwing homophobic slurs was entirely cliched and made me cringe. He has shown absolutely no homophobia before now. Anyway, I digress.

About Isak and Even.. I guess they can still happen. I have a few theories. It seems like Isak is getting further into the closet after the last few clips though so I think he might hook up with Emma first. Sadly I don't expect a happy ending for Isak and Even by the off chance they get together. The best possible outcome is that Even is openly bisexual, starts falling for Isak and breaks up with his gf. Sadly, I don't think that's dramatic enough. I think it's more likely he's closeted bi or gay. If he hooks up with Isak he will probably cheat on his gf, because that's what closeted guys do. Truth be told I would have preferred it if Isak hooked up with someone who was comfortable with himself. Two guys in the closet are just a bit too angsty for me. I guess we'll see. Heck.. he might be entirely straight and Isak might end up boyfriendless and asexual (which is what I think). I hope the show proves me wrong though.

[lovethetree]

i have read your opinions, and I agree that there are few gay storylines in norwegian televisiondramas, but you also have to keep in mind that there are just 2-5 norwegian dramas in total each year. And when we come to Skam: if im not wrong i didnt see noora getting any action early in the season either, we are still on episode three, and it would be weird just throwing Isak in bed with someone just so we can have gay sex on tv, its a storyline and i belive we will get there, but further out in the season.

[overtherainbow]

Noora is such a cockblocker dear lord. On the positive side: almost kiss. I really hope they don't spend the whole season getting interrupted though. I want a kiss NOW dammit! lol

ETA: And I guess this proves that Even might not be so "straight" after all

[kevvoi]

New clip courtesy of Isak&Even Skam:

[mizuryuu]

Nice to see that Even is actually interested. I wish they offered more signs in the previous episodes that Even was bi/gay cause it was really looking very one-sided up til this clip. Not entirely happy they are entangling both Even and Isak with girls cause you can be pretty sure that's what the future episodes will cover. I really hope they won't be cock-blocked constantly until the last episode where they might do one small chaste kiss and that will be the end of it.

[overtherainbow]

I really hope Noora being back doesn't cause more problems for Isak and for Isak and Even as a potential couple. It would really suck if they get interrupted every time they try to kiss. That would seem offensive and borderline homophobic. I have a bad feeling they will come up with many more hurdles for Isak and Even. One of them being Isak has now no place to stay. Maybe they will focus more on his issues with his parents? I hope I'm wrong though. They could just avoid any living situation issues by having Noora sleeping on the couch from now on. I hope that if they do focus on his issues with his parents, that it will just be a small part of his storyline and that they'll continue to focus on Isak and Even too (and no more interruptions please!)

[overtherainbow]

Oct 22, 2016 3:50:22 GMT -5 mizuryuu said:

Nice to see that Even is actually interested. I wish they offered more signs in the previous episodes that Even was bi/gay cause it was really looking very one-sided up til this clip. Not entirely happy they are entangling both Even and Isak with girls cause you can be pretty sure that's what the future episodes will cover. I really hope they won't be cock-blocked constantly until the last episode where they might do one small chaste kiss and that will be the end of it.

I have much the same worries as you have. I would have preferred it if they kissed before Noora showed up. I have a bad feeling they might censor the rest of the season, that they'll keep getting interrupted and we'll only get a peck in the last episode. I hope I'm wrong though. And yeah.. I don't like the fact that they basically both have girlfriends now. Isak and Even's whatever (relationship? fling?) will be revealed at one point . They will probably get outed and it will be awful. This will definitely and in tragedy (again, Romeo + Juliet). It all gets a bit too cliched for me. I would have preferred this storyline with Even being openly gay/bi and single. It's just too depressing and angsty with both guys in the closet. Too many things might go wrong. I also agree with you that Even having the same feelings for Isak was not done well up till now. I get that they wanted it to be a surprise or whatever, but a few more hints wouldn't have hurt. 

[kevvoi]

New clip courtesy of Isak&Even Skam:

[Hawthorne]

I saw that there is a lot of discussion about this show so I decided to check it out. My first impression after watching all the episodes is that it is extremely well written and acted. I really enjoy it. I find both boys to be quite cute. Even has a manner that I find sexy.

To me, it seemed fairly clear that Even was interested in Isak from the very beginning. In fact, every time he showed up around Isak was planned by him, IMO. I don't think it was a coincidence that Isak ran into him on the tram. And I don't think Even really forgot his ID. He just wanted Isak to come to his flat. Even is older and knows what he wants. What worries me about him is that he might just want some fun on the side and has no intention of ever breaking up with his girlfriend. I want it to become a love story and not a story about Isak getting used by a smooth operator.

I also see the references to Romeo and Juliet and love stories where someone dies as worrying. But I have two thoughts about that: 1. While Romeo and Juliet does end tragically, it has an intense love between the two lovers. Seeing an intense love like that develop between Isak and Even would be very satisfying, even if it does end badly. 2. I see too much humor in this story for there to be a tragic ending.

[overtherainbow]

And after the new clip we are back to start. Even is back to treating Isak like sh*t. I really don't get him at all. Yesterday it looked like he wanted Isak, but today he's like "whatever" and wants to spend the day with his girlfriend instead? Once again Isak is left heartbroken and alone. I have lost all hope for Isak's storyline. They can't even kiss ffs. Are they gonna stare at each other all season? I won't be surprised if we get no affection from them. We are one third into this season and all we've had are cliches, two closeted guys acting "straight" to not make their friends suspicious. I'm not impressed with Skam.

[Zathras]

"People leave their wives and children to be with the person they love, and if he really loves you he’ll chose you."
Not sure whether to take that as foreshadowing for Isak & Even . At any rate, Isak looked kind of hopeful about that. Clearly he wants something real with Even. I'm not what Even really wants though. He was the one to make a move on Isak in the prior clip.

As far as the latest clip goes, I'm going to wait and see what happens next. Even deciding to spend time with his girlfriend is realistic, even though Isak was clearly disappointed. Seems to fit with where the story is right now.

[overtherainbow]

I think the story will be more about where Isak will live now and about his relationship with his parents. Isak x Even will probably be on the backburner.

As for the new clip.. I don't get Even. HE leaned in for the kiss ffs, NOT Isak!! It looked like they wanted each other bad when they were dancing, then the next day Even ditches him for his gf? He is sending suched mixed signals! No wonder Isak was disappointed!

[Hawthorne]

Oct 22, 2016 10:07:33 GMT -5 Zathras said:

"People leave their wives and children to be with the person they love, and if he really loves you he’ll chose you."
Not sure whether to take that as foreshadowing for Isak & Even .

Also, the lyrics of the song they were dancing to at the party were about a guy breaking up with his girlfriend. "Call your girlfriend. It's time you had the talk. Give your reasons. Say it's not her fault. But you just met someone new."

And the NAS song that plays while Even & Isak are sitting together in the window smoking pot has a line that goes, "There's one life, one love, so there can only be one..." It does seem like some foreshadowing going on.

At any rate, Isak looked kind of hopeful about that. Clearly he wants something real with Even. I'm not what Even really wants though. He was the one to make a move on Isak in the prior clip.

As far as the latest clip goes, I'm going to wait and see what happens next. Even deciding to spend time with his girlfriend is realistic, even though Isak was clearly disappointed. Seems to fit with where the story is right now.

Yeah, maybe Even really did have pre-existing plans with his girlfriend. But perhaps Isak will somehow end up living with Even. Seems like quite a coincidence that Isak needs a new place right when something tangible is about to develop with Even.

[justinate]

Well, I was very pleasantly surprised to see Even does appear to have a romantic interest in Isak. I honestly thought the show was going to have it be unrequited. I will readily get down on my hands and knees in contrition if I have misjudged the show's intentions for Isak's sexual orientation. This is one instance where I am more than happy to be wrong.

But why are cockblockers always a theme with burgeoning gay couples? Don't they have any straight couples they can interrupt before they even so much as touch lips? I hope the actor's age isn't going to be a factor. I accept that his age rules out nudity but I don't see any reason they can't have a (non-nude) love scene. Juvenile actors do it all the time in other parts of the world - even puritanical America, where ATWT had a 15-year-old actor in a (heterosexual) love scene. So please, Norway, don't pull a "he was too young for gay love" on us - especially not after the blowjob he got from Emma in episode 1.

Eskild is kind of a dick - he was never the most considerate but I don't remember him being bitchy to this degree? Still, I'm glad the actor found time to be a part of the season after starting university.

[kevvoi]

Isak&Even Skam posted a season 1 clip:

[kevvoi]

Next part courtesy of Isak&Even Skam: