ila
Junior Member
Posts: 874
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Post by ila on Jun 7, 2012 4:30:31 GMT -5
I agree with you, guys. After last night's episode it became clear to me that whatever it is that Brendan feels for Ste is not even about being in love anymore, it is all about his desire to possess Ste. Ste's become an obsession for Brendan.
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Post by anthonyl on Jun 8, 2012 0:42:50 GMT -5
What's funny is that even Emmett says that while Brendan loves Ste it's all about possession and control and that's the only way he wants Ste. Emmett also seems to get that Brendan should never change because he'll lose what made him so popular to begin with. That doesn't bode well for a future for Brendan and Ste.
And just a random thought.... I still believe Ally was intended to be Ste's new love interest, but for some reason the show changed it to Doug.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 8, 2012 1:04:46 GMT -5
What's funny is that even Emmett says that while Brendan loves Ste it's all about possession and control and that's the only way he wants Ste. Emmett also seems to get that Brendan should never change because he'll lose what made him so popular to begin with, something that folks who say 'Brendan will change' can't seem to grasp. That doesn't bode well for a future for Brendan and Ste. Well, Enmett's being "told" what to say. He's been saying the same damn thing for two years now.
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Post by nahuela on Jun 8, 2012 16:23:48 GMT -5
Just for the record...Kieron knows how to play this game... after that gorgeous "kissing" pic of him and PJ he went to Emmett and made this one:
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Post by margarite6666 on Jun 8, 2012 20:33:08 GMT -5
It seems that the producer is enduring a lot of stick tonight from Stendan fans. She has tweeted Emma Smithwick ( @smithlewick) Hollyoaks series producer tweets: “What have I ALWAYS said? 2 things need to happen b4 any Stendan action will happen: 1) Ste needs to stand on own to feet & believe that he deserves respect. 2) Brendan needs to change. And I mean an evolution, not a character transplant. Phase one: complete. They. Are. Not. Over. But a new chapter begins. Level playing field. In a few weeks time, something will happen to Brendan that will change him irreversibly.
I have a feeling that Declan might come a cropper. Its the only thing I can think of that would really change him and allow Steven to have feelings for him again. So Stendan fans I think we can hope again!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 21:23:12 GMT -5
My two cents. Just watching the way Ste has been not just talking or acting, but just being around Brendan (and others) in recent weeks and months, it should be even surprising Brendan himself did not ask himself a million questions about Ste’s rush back to him. The vibe has just been and continued even after Ste’s little roundtrip to be very different IMO; and it’s not just about Ste standing up for himself, it’s the very connection from what Ste was projecting that really felt different to me. I guess Brendan being actually caught off guard could just say more about Brendan’s self-centeredness and inability to get past the Ste he could easily manipulate. If the focus starts and ends with Brendan’s standing and projection into the dynamic, and not so much Ste’s, it’s actually not surprising that it didn’t click with him. So, in the future, whether Ste is with Doug, with someone else or alone, there would need to be a whole new reinvention of the character to shake off what I’ve gotten off Ste recently and convincingly get him back together with Brendan for me, ‘hot’ chemistry or not, and even ‘new’ Brendan or not. But that's just me.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 8, 2012 21:40:18 GMT -5
It's not just you, Macari. Emma Smithwick can tweet until her fingers fall off. Until the show actually has Ste legitimately finding a way to believe in Brendan's love, it's all just hollow talk to me. Brendan, at this point, will never leave Ste (or Doug) alone for now. It's truly on now. He's going to be all "Brendanny" for awhile.
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Post by margarite6666 on Jun 9, 2012 8:38:26 GMT -5
Someone tweeted to Emma to ask her for Brendan and Steven to have a proper 'talk' without the games etc. She has promised that.
However, where we are now. I cannot see how Steven can grow as a human being with Doug. I am sorry but he just comes across as pathetic and needy. I would rather he was on his own. I think I am right but she said she wanted Steven to be happy outside of his love life. I thought that is what this meant. Perhaps there will come a time before Brendan's 'evolution' that he will be on his own and become a stronger character.
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Post by queenmab126 on Jun 9, 2012 8:52:08 GMT -5
I think Ste being happy outside his love life doesn't mean he has to be on his own, just that he is starting to build something, to feel like his kids can be proud of him, and that is the deli.
And Doug isn't pathetic and needy at all. He is a 20 year old guy who at in a pretty emotionally challenging life phase right now. Just because he happened to cry twice for the man he loves it doesn't mean he's whiny or that he can't stand on his own. He's much more of a man for admitting his mistakes to ste and apologizing when he's wrong, rather than someone who takes anger and insecurity out always in a violent fashion. Just my 2 cents. Just saying that 'manliness' isn't about fists and being all tough all the time.
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Post by anthonyl on Jun 9, 2012 9:40:29 GMT -5
So the only way that Ste can truly grow as a person is to do it without love in his life or rather without the Brendan type of love? IMO, he HAS grown as a person since he gotten out of that abusive relationship and he managed to find someone to love along the way. As for Doug, I don't think he's pathetic or needy. He loves Ste and Ste loves him. He's just a little emotional and that's okay. But you know what is pathetic? Chasing after a man after he's busted your ribs, blackened your eye and beaten you down a few times. Thank God Ste buried that guy before Brendan had the chance to.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 9, 2012 9:51:34 GMT -5
So the only way that Ste can truly grow as a person is to do it without love in his life or rather without the Brendan type of love? IMO, he HAS grown as a person since he gotten out of that abusive relationship and he managed to find someone to love along the way. As for Doug, I don't think he's pathetic or needy. He loves Ste and Ste loves him. He's just a little emotional and that's okay. But you know what is pathetic? Chasing after a man after he's busted your ribs, blackened your eye and beaten you down a few times. Thank God Ste buried that guy before Brendan had the chance to. Well, if Ste had been killed as a result of Brendan's "love", I guess that would be more preferred than seeing him moving out from under his control AND choose to be with someone else.
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trini
Junior Member
living and loving life
Posts: 514
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Post by trini on Jun 9, 2012 10:33:20 GMT -5
I cannot see how Steven can grow as a human being with Doug. I am sorry but he just comes across as pathetic and needy. I would rather he was on his own. . But the only time Ste has shown any growth recently is in his relationship with Doug, They built a business together with most of the time Doug pushing him. And I think the fact that Doug is not the dominant personality in their relationship may allow Ste to realize that in a relationship he does not have to bend to his partner's will and that he will have to learn to rely on himself even when he is in a relationship. I think these are good lessons to learn if Ste and Brendan are to ever be in a relationship again.
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Post by margarite6666 on Jun 13, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -5
My problem with these characters is that as a continuing drama the writers should be consistent. Most of the Stendan/Stug fans are young girls. When you are young you see the world as basically black and white. As you grow up you begin to note the complexity in human beings.
Doug was a drug dealer who would sell you out for a dime. Charlotte was hurt because of his drug dealing. Brennan told Jack Mills from Wonderland magazine that Doug has "evolved" A man with "more barriers on the surface"; he was no longer the character who hooked up with ladies, "bragged, [...] made terrible decisions and was self-obsessed". Now the writers have literally turned him into a knight in shining armour.
Brendan on the other hand has been given the opposite treatment. Initially a real villain we grew to see a sensitive, loving vulnerable man. Now they have turned him into a 'dragon' with no discernible good traits at all.
Of course the producer has promised us that Brendan will 'evolve' Something is going to happen which will change him forever. As they are now on a level playing field there will be Stendan action in the future.
The problem with all this is that they cannot proceed without upsetting one fandom or the other. Hollyoaks does not have that many people watching at the moment so they should really work hard in keeping everyone on board. It is possible to bring fans around if you give them credible storylines. The only way I can see the Stug fans accepting the demise of their fandom is to have Ste say he loves him but is In love with Brendan or to turn him back to his original character of self obsessed drug dealer.
Looking at the comments on the recent polls it seems obvious to me that many people won't accept any change in Brendan's character. He committed domestic violence and that is that. Some also say he murdered Danny whereas it was obvious it was manslaughter and I would say a psychotic break which would mean he could claim diminished responsibility.
They say it is not a good message to have him in a relationship with Ste. What I would say it is not a good message that people should not be given a second chance especially as they give a second chance to the character they like!
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Post by queenmab126 on Jun 13, 2012 12:39:35 GMT -5
It wOuld not ve a second chance, more like the 1937181th... But it's not that, I think most people who don't want Stendan to ever be a couple again feel like brendan would need to change too much, it would take a complete revision of fundamental traits of his charachter, which are what make him so interesting. That, together with the fact that Ste deserves to move on after being beaten that many times, being costantly put down and emotionally abused.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 13, 2012 12:54:08 GMT -5
A sensitive, loving and vulnerable man? Really? In what aspect? When he mugged his own half-sister? When he hit Ste after he took in Brendan's son? Or the time that he menaced Rae? Noah? Bart? Joel? Dom? Rhys?
Or is that vulnerable, loving and sensitive Brendan only in fan fiction?
I really want to know, because that version of the character isn't what I saw OR continue to see on my screen.
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JWfan
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Post by JWfan on Jun 13, 2012 13:11:44 GMT -5
The problem with Ste & Brendan i feel is that they've never been a couple. Their storyline went round and round in circles for 2 years and the fans have all been waiting for the day when Brendan would change. As much as i like Ste/Doug I think I still want to see Brendan and Ste together in the end.
(only of brendan changes of course)
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 13, 2012 13:22:03 GMT -5
It wOuld not ve a second chance, more like the 1937181th... But it's not that, I think most people who don't want Stendan to ever be a couple again feel like brendan would need to change too much, it would take a complete revision of fundamental traits of his charachter, which are what make him so interesting. That, together with the fact that Ste deserves to move on after being beaten that many times, being costantly put down and emotionally abused. That's exactly how I feel. I'm not against any sort of redemption for Brendan, because he's the big bad dragon that shouldn't be allowed to change. What I have an issue with is that for his redemption to matter and mean something, that Ste has to be the prize in the end. Why can't Brendan be put on the Road to Redemption without the fan base quarantee of Ste being with him in the end? Way before Ste ever came out, he wanted to get back with Amy and that didn't happen. What makes Brendan SO special and unique that he "deserves" to get the man he's hurt and manipulated to the point of ALMOST destruction back into his life as his love?
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LadyArmand
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"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
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Post by LadyArmand on Jun 13, 2012 13:26:18 GMT -5
The sad truth is that Brendan has been written as very consistent.
Brendan has been and remains a bully.
I’ve never seen Brendan as sensitive and or vulnerable. He has always used both those traits (inherent in most human beings) as a way to manipulate people. And in particular Ste. This is evidenced by his most recent manipulation of going into the deli telling Ste he wants to change, that he wants Ste to be with him, and that he’s tried of the games. All of this as he’s trying to mind fuck Ste once again.
Doug has his flaws no one is disputing that or at least I’m not. But at his core he’s a decent human being. He’s seen what the kind of life he was living was going to lead to. And he didn’t want that. He found someone who believed in him and he’s made mistakes trying to keep that in his life. But again it wasn’t done out of malice or a need to control Ste.
Brendan on the other hand, glories in his flaws. He wears them like a coat of armor. He uses his flaws like weapons and when he does those who are closes to him, Cheryl, Ste, and Joel, get hurt. His definition of love includes ownership. It’s not about seeing the other person happy or putting what they need first. It’s about what Brendan wants, how Brendan wants it and how Brendan is going to get it.
No matter what he does or says Brendan will always hurt Ste. Because he doesn’t see Ste as his equal. He sees Ste as his property. He sees Ste as the thing that got away that he has to reclaim. And it will only be when he is tired of Ste, that he’ll let him go and maybe not even then because he’s more than addicted to Ste, he’s obsessed with him. He has fixated on Ste and placed all of his hopes and dreams of love on Ste and he won’t let that go. And he’ll do anything, hurt anyone including Ste to reclaim that. Plus he really does think Ste owe him because he killed Danny. He really thinks he did that to protect Ste. In reality he did that to protect his secret from Warren at the time. He wasn’t about to let Danny out him to Warren. Ste was part of it, but all in all, he was the smallest part of why Brendan killed Danny.
Doug had better watch out because right now Brendan sees him as the obstacle in his way to getting Ste back. And we know what Brendan does to obstacles. The difference this time is that Doug has friends who actually look out for him.
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ila
Junior Member
Posts: 874
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Post by ila on Jun 13, 2012 13:31:01 GMT -5
It wOuld not ve a second chance, more like the 1937181th... But it's not that, I think most people who don't want Stendan to ever be a couple again feel like brendan would need to change too much, it would take a complete revision of fundamental traits of his charachter, which are what make him so interesting. That, together with the fact that Ste deserves to move on after being beaten that many times, being costantly put down and emotionally abused. That's exactly how I feel. I'm not against any sort of redemption for Brendan, because he's the big bad dragon that shouldn't be allowed to change. What I have an issue with is that for his redemption to matter and mean something, that Ste has to be the prize in the end. Why can't Brendan be put on the Road to Redemption without the fan base quarantee of Ste being with him in the end? Way before Ste ever came out, he wanted to get back with Amy and that didn't happen. What makes Brendan SO special and unique that he "deserves" to get the man he's hurt and manipulated to the point of ALMOST destruction back into his life as his love? These 2 posts exactly!
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JWfan
New Member
Jo Weil
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Post by JWfan on Jun 13, 2012 13:31:38 GMT -5
Ok just saw hollyoaks today on E4 and was quite shocked at the end! im not going to spoil it for anyone but i didnt see that coming!
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Post by stillamcdeaner on Jun 13, 2012 13:35:15 GMT -5
I could totally see that coming!
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Post by jollian7221 on Jun 13, 2012 13:36:41 GMT -5
i didnt either :-O
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 13, 2012 16:05:25 GMT -5
don't care if Brendan redeems himself (i like him the funny evil way he is), Ste should not give him another chance. Period. Their relationship is just too damaged. If Brendan change, Ste and him could be friends, but nothing more than friend. I have against Stendan the same that i have agains Kurtofsky on Glee. Friends is perfectly ok, but a couple? bad idea
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 13, 2012 18:40:33 GMT -5
don't care if Brendan redeems himself (i like him the funny evil way he is), Ste should not give him another chance. Period. Their relationship is just too damaged. If Brendan change, Ste and him could be friends, but nothing more than friend. I have against Stendan the same that i have agains Kurtofsky on Glee. Friends is perfectly ok, but a couple? bad idea You didn't have to be told that domestic abuse OR threatening to kill someone isn't the true road for a loving couple?!
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mycatfox
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"One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye"
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Post by mycatfox on Jun 13, 2012 19:51:29 GMT -5
It wOuld not ve a second chance, more like the 1937181th... But it's not that, I think most people who don't want Stendan to ever be a couple again feel like brendan would need to change too much, it would take a complete revision of fundamental traits of his charachter, which are what make him so interesting. That, together with the fact that Ste deserves to move on after being beaten that many times, being costantly put down and emotionally abused. That's exactly how I feel. I'm not against any sort of redemption for Brendan, because he's the big bad dragon that shouldn't be allowed to change. What I have an issue with is that for his redemption to matter and mean something, that Ste has to be the prize in the end. Why can't Brendan be put on the Road to Redemption without the fan base quarantee of Ste being with him in the end? Way before Ste ever came out, he wanted to get back with Amy and that didn't happen. What makes Brendan SO special and unique that he "deserves" to get the man he's hurt and manipulated to the point of ALMOST destruction back into his life as his love? These 2 posts exactly! Amen!I've been paying attention to the opinions of those that root for BB/Stendan, and I don't remember having read anything significant about what they think regarding the beatings, or the way Ste's been treated during the time they were together. So far, I am still waiting I have the impression that Ste doesn't matter much, that is all about BB and his right to be happy (even if he hurts Ste in the process? )I'm dying to know their POV, really
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