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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 8, 2008 21:54:31 GMT -5
Roman looked so handsome giving Deniz the evil eye. I hate how is he so much in the dumps. He is lucky to have a good friend like Ingo who obviously loves him a lot. AWZ's wardrobe people need to be shot for dressing Vanessa in that bright red spandex top. It looked even worse during the episode than the preview picture. I saw that side shot, Bonochick, that isn't right. Was Juli trying to tell Oliver that she is the one he is chatting to online? Ingo is a good friend. And I understand Roman is rightfully heartbroken but the writers need to come up with something for him to do to get over the heartbreak besides stare at Deniz or throwing DIVA fits. Clowning on Deniz & Vanessa is a good start for Roman. Bringing in a new love interest for Roman (temp or not) is another. At this point, shouldn't Roman be hitting the bars and having a one night stand or three to drink and screw away the pain? It was totally not right, Simone. I love that the show has an average/plus size gal on it but wardrobe needs to be respectful of that & act accordingly.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 9, 2008 0:04:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the one thing I totally don't get about AWZ, the whole "There are no gay people in X" (wherever AWZ is set). I've been thinking that since I read one of the Dennis Grabosch interviews where he talked about how plays Roman as really open and wanting a relationship so he starts any interaction with "testing" whoever he meets. Kinda he looks at every butt/d'ck he meets and waits for somebody to look back.
To which I say TF? I'm supposed to buy that it would be that hard for Roman to get a boyfriend that he has to rely on the Denizs of world? Even if we presume that he really hates going to bars what about online dating? What about having gay friends? Besides, he is no longer in the closet so what does he have to worry about?
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 9, 2008 0:16:32 GMT -5
To which I say TF? I'm supposed to buy that it would be that hard for Roman to get a boyfriend that he has to rely on the Denizs of world? Even if we presume that he really hates going to bars what about online dating? What about having gay friends? Besides, he is no longer in the closet so what does he have to worry about? It's really weird. Roman is an attractive, outgoing guy in shape but yet he sits around either whining or staring at the guy who cheated on him and dumped him for a woman instead of putting himself back out in the game. If this is TIIC's way of showing his heartbreak, we were all already aware and would like to see either fun Roman or snarky Roman. He also obviously needs some to take the edge off.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 9, 2008 0:24:28 GMT -5
It's a pity, but: Olivia >>>>>>>>> Jenny as fas bitchy friends who help you get over a break up by (a) trashtalking your ex and (b) telling you to get back into the game goes. Anette is too nice and Jenny might say some things, but honestly, she just seems way too self involved to really pay attention to Roman's problems.
But yeah, I keep thinking, I'm sorry, isn't Essen supposed to have a decent number of people? I keep thinking they play it like the show was set in some godforsaken mountain town where there really are no gay people for Roman to date.
According to wikipedia Dussefdorf and Essen are roughly the same size but Olli can freely boink his way through various clubs and Roman can't? Roman is a bronze medal winner and I'm supposed to buy that nobody wants to tap that? (besides, aren't Essen and Dusseldorf like next to each other on the map? If there really are no gay people in Essen, he can always hit a car and pick up some of those Dusseldorfians ;D)
Sure Olli hasn't boinked anybody else since he really feel in luuuuuv with his straight boy either, but at least the show always made a point of showing that that is because he is being whiny and ultimately because he wants to, not because he has no other choice. Particularly since the show keeps it so close to the vest how much it really is Roman still *loving* Deniz and not wanting to move on (the way Olli was post first kiss till last Friday) and how much of it is hurt ego and how much of it is being truly miserable.
_
I just think that that is a real disappointment because generally AWZ used to be *more* realistic regarding those gay issue things and this is the one area where they fail. Again, give us a reason. Say somehow that Roman doesn't want anybody else because he loves only Deniz (and then I would like a reason for that too, because well, based on what? The fact that he was nice to you for 5 minutes?). Or tell us that Roman is technically totally shy in bar situations. Or has a really masochistic streak. Or thinks he can't date anybody not from Steinkamp because it would interfere with his training or something. Just give me something.
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Post by GayTime on Apr 9, 2008 0:41:55 GMT -5
actually, essen has some gay bars and a bigger gay population - it's also in a major metropolitan area with duesseldorf and cologne being very close and other cities of the area having gay nightlife options. roman should have no trouble finding someone to date or for a one night stand. i have no idea why they are portraying him like he's the only gay in the village. in real life essen, he most certainly wouldn't be.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 9, 2008 0:54:05 GMT -5
At this point I vote for emotionally stunted or really masochistic.
I have one question though. Sometimes I watch AWZ and feel like I missed something essential. It seems that there are a lot of throwaway comments by characters about Roman being stuck up. Did I miss some essential storyline where Romen kicked someone's baby? We all know that he can be a drama queen and we know that he can be abrasive, but to the extent that people around him would say "Yeah, maybe it's a good thing that he didn't get the job because it might go to his head"?
(again, I have no idea. for all I know they did a truckload of storylines about Roman sabotaging his figure skater competition out of ambition and what not)
Have they ever told us about Roman's backstory? Did his parents disown him for being a figure skater? Does he have siblings?
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 9, 2008 0:54:16 GMT -5
actually, essen has some gay bars and a bigger gay population - it's also in a major metropolitan area with duesseldorf and cologne being very close and other cities of the area having gay nightlife options. roman should have no trouble finding someone to date or for a one night stand. i have no idea why they are portraying him like he's the only gay in the village. in real life essen, he most certainly wouldn't be. So what this means is that the AWZ writers are simply lazy. Ok!
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Simone
Junior Member
Posts: 276
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Post by Simone on Apr 9, 2008 8:32:27 GMT -5
Good points, Lola. It is beyond me why a hot guy like Roman is hanging around a gym spying on his annoying ex- and current girlfriend when he could be cruising for good looking studs all over Essen. AWZ doesn't even have to make it into a big story, but surely Roman's ego would lead him to slut around for awhile. Even Olli gave Timo a second romp in the sack in an attempt to get over Christian and was open to picking up a one night stand when Christian was rejecting him. Roman is a hottie, let him have a life. Let Roman tongue down some guy in front of Deniz in the locker room so he can see what he has lost while he having boring sex with Vanessa.
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 9, 2008 13:37:43 GMT -5
Anyone get a chance to watch ep 401 today? Is there snarky Roman? Is Deniz still swelling? Has Vanessa's outfit mercifully changed??
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 9, 2008 14:57:13 GMT -5
Roman gives Vanessa some good snark. Vanessa comes in while Deniz is in the pool with two models and laughing. One of the models writes her name on his arm. Roman sarcastically mentions that Deniz gets everyone in the pool *pointed look*, but you know that of course. Vanessa barks that he is getting tiresome and that Deniz is with her now. Roman says something along the lines of, funny that's what I thought too, BUT you know that of course. Vanessa says that Deniz isn't into dumb girls like that. Roman says Deniz is into change, old, new, men woman BUT you know that of course. Other than that, no Roman-ness (he STILL runs around with the Trau Dich pamphlet). Other than that Vanessa/Deniz stuff, he misses Juli's ice dancing because Maximilian orders him to stay, Vanessa is pissy because of the phone number, but they make up. she starts cleaning his arm and asks for a kiss, he gives her a pack, she cleans the next part and says this time a real kiss, he kisses her, she cleans the rest and says she knows what she wants now and pulls him towards the bedroom. His phone rings and interrupts them (I think I like Maximilian ). Deniz has some event to go to. Vanessa understands. Deniz: You are so cool! (LOL, what are they, five?) Anyway, Deniz wants to take her along to the Steinkamp event. Vanessa thinks she is too ugly. Deniz assures her that she is beautiful. When they arrive there Maximilian tells him that Vanessa can't be there. Because of the image he has to portray, Deniz needs to pretend to be single.
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 9, 2008 15:07:16 GMT -5
Roman gives Vanessa some good snark. Vanessa comes in while Deniz is in the pool with two models and laughing. One of the models writes her name on his arm. Roman sarcastically mentions that Deniz gets everyone in the pool *pointed look*, but you know that of course. Vanessa barks that he is getting tiresome and that Deniz is with her now. Roman says something along the lines of, funny that's what I thought too, BUT you know that of course. Vanessa says that Deniz isn't into dumb girls like that. Roman says Deniz is into change, old, new, men woman BUT you know that of course. Other than that, no Roman-ness (he STILL runs around with the Trau Dich pamphlet). Other than that Vanessa/Deniz stuff, he misses Juli's ice dancing because Maximilian orders him to stay, Vanessa is pissy because of the phone number, but they make up. she starts cleaning his arm and asks for a kiss, he gives her a pack, she cleans the next part and says this time a real kiss, he kisses her, she cleans the rest and says she knows what she wants now and pulls him towards the bedroom. His phone rings and interrupts them (I think I like Maximilian ). Deniz has some event to go to. Vanessa understands. Deniz: You are so cool! (LOL, what are they, five?) Anyway, Deniz wants to take her along to the Steinkamp event. Vanessa thinks she is too ugly. Deniz assures her that she is beautiful. When they arrive there Maximilian tells him that Vanessa can't be there. Because of the image he has to portray, Deniz needs to pretend to be single. There's the Roman I've missed! I am glad he brings the snark. Now if only he'd go trolling for some ass for "slut away the pain", I'd be really thrilled. ;D Vanessa better take her lumps from Roman without comment since she's no angel and has no right to take the high road in this situation, especially since she willingly got involved with a guy she knew already had a boyfriend. I agree that Roman is being tiresome with the near-stalking and staring but he has every right to be bitchy toward her and toward Deniz. They broke his heart & lied to him, not the other way around (well, Deniz to Vanessa in the end but you get what I am saying). Max is a punk but in this situation he warms my cynical heart. Even he doesn't buy DeVa! Soooooo the DeVa kissing still underwhelming? Is it just me or Vanessa always the one pulling Deniz to the bedroom instead of the other way around or even 50/50?
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 9, 2008 19:32:28 GMT -5
Ok, I just watched 401... Eeegads, the red spandex is still in play with more side shots. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? I loved Roman's comments to Vanessa. She needed to hear them cause she's still living in a fantasy that everything is perfect cause Deniz is now her boyfriend. She fails to remember how that came to be. Looking at the male models with Jenny, the only thing I wonder is if there were budget concerns cause really? That was the best they could do? Or did Jenny truly want to shine so they just picked up two schlubs on the street? The female models with Deniz were marginally better. They were thin but not very attractive IMO. And where they shooting an advert or Goldfinger 2? Because it has to be said again: DeVa kissing is the most tepid, awkward looking crap. If I hadn't already read Lola's recap, I'd have been reaching for the Bromo had Vanessa been successful in leading Deniz to the bed (though at least it would have gotten that heinous red top off of her). THANK YOU, MAX! At this point the audience would SO win if Deniz dumped Vanessa in order to be a model but we all know we're not that lucky. *sigh* other storylines: Juli & Oliver wouldn't be nearly as boring if the storyline was better written and more quickly paced. The actors are cute together but the storyline is dreadful (though still better than "Back In Iraq...")! I am in AWE of Simone's red lipstick. That sucker does not move or smear at all n matter what she does. Fascinating.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 9, 2008 22:52:40 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that that with Vanessa's ugly clothes is unintentional. After all this episode was all about highlighting how ugly Vanessa feels in comparison to the models and how she might not be good enough to be his gf in public because she isn't attractive enough. Though I might be giving them too much credit.
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 10, 2008 10:49:42 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that that with Vanessa's ugly clothes is unintentional. After all this episode was all about highlighting how ugly Vanessa feels in comparison to the models and how she might not be good enough to be his gf in public because she isn't attractive enough. Though I might be giving them too much credit. I want to say that would be somewhat interesting if they were trying to play up her less than model perfect body but I think that it would border on distasteful if Deniz suddenly found fault with her because of her waist size. IT would be too much of a dick move even for him. I think even when DeVa had the fight, if you could call it that , it was never about how she looked but how he acted with the models (which should set off alarms in Vanessa's head cause it's not like he hasn't cheated before!). I think Vanessa's got realize EVENTUALLY - cause boy are TIIC taking things slowly - that there is something missing from her relationship with Deniz. Does she even notice how wooden Deniz is when they kiss? He just stands there. He doesn't put anything into it, definitely not his body and rarely moves his hands to her face unless he's trying to break off the kiss and she's always the one leading him off to knock boots. RED FLAGS!!
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 10, 2008 11:19:16 GMT -5
I don't think that Deniz would dump her because she is ugly, but her feeling ugly could play into her insecurity. That said, the latest spoilers are more about Vanessa feeling sad because Deniz is so busy with his model job he doesn't have time for her. And not a single mention of Roman that whole week Right now it doesn't really feel to me like the woodenness is supposed to be part of the storyline. I think it's supposed probably part of the story that she sort of leads and orders him around, but I'm just not getting the vibe from Deniz that he is supposed to be unhappy with the situation. If anything it currently feels more like they are steering into the direction of Deniz being shown as flighty and having a short attention span eventually (kinda like Roman told Vanessa). Sigh I kinda hope that the upcoming Roman/Deniz scene will give Roman some vindication so his position doesn't look as weird. And that it gives some insight into Deniz because at the moment I have no idea what he is supposed to portray. Something like "He is afraid of being gay and trying to make himself straight" or "He is just running from his feelings for Roman" sounds like a nice concept, but to me Deniz/Igor just doesn't portray that at all. He seems quite content with his situation and doesn't come across as particularly angsty or yearny. I don't know if that is because it's not in the writing or because Igor can't portray it. But at the moment I just don't get the impression that Deniz is unhappy or running from something. He just seems dense.
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 10, 2008 13:26:46 GMT -5
I don't think that Deniz would dump her because she is ugly, but her feeling ugly could play into her insecurity. That said, the latest spoilers are more about Vanessa feeling sad because Deniz is so busy with his model job he doesn't have time for her. And not a single mention of Roman that whole week Right now it doesn't really feel to me like the woodenness is supposed to be part of the storyline. I think it's supposed probably part of the story that she sort of leads and orders him around, but I'm just not getting the vibe from Deniz that he is supposed to be unhappy with the situation. If anything it currently feels more like they are steering into the direction of Deniz being shown as flighty and having a short attention span eventually (kinda like Roman told Vanessa). Sigh I kinda hope that the upcoming Roman/Deniz scene will give Roman some vindication so his position doesn't look as weird. And that it gives some insight into Deniz because at the moment I have no idea what he is supposed to portray. Something like "He is afraid of being gay and trying to make himself straight" or "He is just running from his feelings for Roman" sounds like a nice concept, but to me Deniz/Igor just doesn't portray that at all. He seems quite content with his situation and doesn't come across as particularly angsty or yearny. I don't know if that is because it's not in the writing or because Igor can't portray it. But at the moment I just don't get the impression that Deniz is unhappy or running from something. He just seems dense. I am not getting unhappy either from Deniz but I am also not getting happy. It's just kind of a "there" feeling. Nothing good, nothing bad just... "there". Does that make sense? I don't know how to describe it but it's more than "going through the motions" yet less than "100% involved". I know that there is a lot of fanwanking as to what Deniz is going through but I agree with you that there isn't a real impression of what Deniz is feeling lately. In the beginning you could see more of Deniz's emotional dilemma & conflict and now it's more undefined of sorts. On some level I think that Roman's bitching since everything came out in the open about Deniz's double-dipping solidified Deniz's desire to be with Vanessa and not Roman. For me, regardless of what Deniz says about being in love with Vanessa, it comes across as unconvincing (IMO) & they really seem more like good friends who have [tepid] sex, yet he doesn't seem to mourn not being with Roman though when Deniz is near or with Roman he's very easily rattled so he's still susceptible to him emotionally. I am not sure if the writers aren't giving Igor a clear picture of what Deniz is supposed to be feeling or what but of everyone in the VaDeRo triangle, as the pivotal person in it Deniz is the one that is the most difficult to read because he either comes off as self-absorbed, blase or false and how he feels about the two people who want him seems to go in and out. We should get some feeling as to why Deniz is either torn or has feelings for each (and without mentioning spoilers in depth we kind of know that is the case) yet it's coming across as a jumbled blob of mess. It's weird.
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Simone
Junior Member
Posts: 276
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Post by Simone on Apr 10, 2008 13:30:53 GMT -5
I see Deniz the same way that you do, Lola. Deniz looks happy as a clam with Vanessa. The writers are not giving us any hints that Deniz is torn or conflicted about his feelings. In fact, he barely notices that Roman is alive any more.
If anything breaks up Deniz and Vanessa, I think it will be Vanessa getting tired of Deniz being too caught up in his modeling career to have time for their relationship. However, I don't see that happening any time soon.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 10, 2008 14:15:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I would call it happy either, but he seems completely content with the situation. He doesn't come across like a person who feels he is missing out on something, he just seems perfectly at ease with their tepid relationship and quite content with the way it is (for now). And so far the further ahead spoilers seem to be more in the direction of suggesting that maybe if DeVa breaks apart it might be for unrelated issues rather than Deniz missing being gay.
I do think that Deniz looked like he was genuinely feeling bad for Roman both when he was cheating on Roman and when he got the job instead of Roman. But that comes more across like average "Deniz is a nice guy/Awww, shucks!" concern rather than being heartbroken or in love.
Random, I was checking youtube and was shocked when I found a clip of Roman and Anette where they were arguing about Ingo and Anette said in anger that Deniz was only staying with Roman so long because Roman had lied about his injury. I have always wondered about that. I only followed the storyline through the all about strenght youtube videos and there this reveal about Roman's injury came out of the blue. On the show, did the fans actually know that Roman was lying about that? Did we see him lying and the like or was that something that was retconned and invented in the end to faciliate DeVa?
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 10, 2008 14:23:53 GMT -5
Random, I was checking youtube and was shocked when I found a clip of Roman and Anette where they were arguing about Ingo and Anette said in anger that Deniz was only staying with Roman so long because Roman had lied about his injury. I have always wondered about that. I only followed the storyline through the all about strenght youtube videos and there this reveal about Roman's injury came out of the blue. On the show, did the fans actually know that Roman was lying about that? Did we see him lying and the like or was that something that was retconned and invented in the end to faciliate DeVa? Fans knew. It was when Roman started to sense that Deniz was withdrawing from him that he pulled that stunt about his knee. I am trying to recall if it happened in the AAS clip #10 or right after that but it isn't a ret-con.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 10, 2008 14:26:08 GMT -5
I remember that time when Roman sort of threw himself on the floor while Deniz was trying to run after Vanessa because some house was burning. But we didn't see anything beyond that? No longer "Evil!Roman is lying about his injury and it's a skating related storyline" that just didn't make it into the edits? Or at least Roman being shown struggling with the decision?
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Gabi
Junior Member
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Post by Gabi on Apr 10, 2008 14:26:09 GMT -5
We saw Roman lying and pretending to feel desperate about the end of his career, in the very moment when Deniz was about to break up with him.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 10, 2008 14:33:17 GMT -5
Sigh. Still feels way too quick/random/desperate to me.
Random? I really can't stand Juli and Oliver. I don't know what it is about that storyline, but they make me want to stab my eyes out. Repeatedly. When I try to sit through the episodes. They are just too cutesy.
I did lol at: Maximilian: So läuft der Hase nun mal.
Spoiler for VL: Is it just me or do Vanessa/Deniz have exactly the same story as the upcoming Christian and Oliver story is? WIth the whole "Yes, it's okay if you hide our relationship" - "But I don't want to!" - "But it's a great chance for you, that's why I'll make you do it!"
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 10, 2008 14:37:07 GMT -5
Sigh. Still feels way too quick/random/desperate to me. Random? I really can't stand Juli and Oliver. I don't know what it is about that storyline, but they make me want to stab my eyes out. Repeatedly. When I try to sit through the episodes. They are just too cutesy. I did lol at: Maximilian: So läuft der Hase nun mal. Spoiler for VL: Is it just me or do Vanessa/Deniz have exactly the same story as the upcoming Christian and Oliver story is? WIth the whole "Yes, it's okay if you hide our relationship" - "But I don't want to!" - "But it's a great chance for you, that's why I'll make you do it!"Olli & Juli I think are kinda cute but that storyline is dreadful IMO. And with the comparison, kind of except one couple is in love and it makes sense and the other is scheisse.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 10, 2008 14:39:09 GMT -5
At least now we know the basis for the DeVa relationship. Deniz: Ich steh drauf wenn du mich schlägst.
And DeVa are taking almost Nuke like proportions with all the people running in and preventing them from having sex (only in this case we are actually thankful).
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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 10, 2008 14:41:44 GMT -5
At least now we know the basis for the DeVa relationship. Deniz: Ich steh drauf wenn du mich schlägst. I got half of that (I am still livid over today's ATWT). What's the Englisch translation? Oh, how was 402 today?
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