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Post by Bonobochick on May 7, 2008 12:52:51 GMT -5
Deniz is back to being a dick. Somebody needs to outlaw German soaps using the extressing "Turning gay", "Turning gay again". I missed the first 5 minutes. The episode is mostly about Diana's return. She comes back and gives Nina a stern talking to. Yay! Her new hair is creepy. Nina is crazy and disturbing. Okay, DeRoVa. Va tells Jenny that Roman kissed Deniz and Deniz let him. Says technically Deniz did all the right things and she even understands why Roman did it, but she is worried. Vanessa is worried that Deniz is "turning gay again". Jenny says no way. Va says: "But what if?" In the meantime Deniz is being crowded by adoring cheerleaders. Deniz talks to Roman about Roman covering for him with Vanessa. (Deniz says "about your kiss" Roman corrects him "about our kiss, you started it") Roman is awesome in this scene. He points out that that means that he isn't the asshole Deniz thinks he is (Deniz says he never thought that). Then Roman is all awesome and sarcastic telling that D is with Va now and he has to accept it. That Deniz is old enough to know what he wants and Roman hopes that he goes for it. (again, Roman showing off that he is the better choice). [Deniz looks really hot and scruffy and he is kneeling the entire scene] Vanessa meets Deniz. Deniz says that Roman approached him again [liar!] and that Roman apologized again. Says he loves Vanessa. They want to go to Diana's welcome back party. But Maximilian intervenes and tells them that Deniz has to be single again. Everybody is at Diana's welcome back party. Roman tells her to bring Deniz to him. I thought the dance scene was really disappointing. Honestly, I didn't even realize that they were dancing. I thought Roman and Deniz were just talking and laughing and then Vanessa storms off. Apparently that was the dancing. Sorry, Ingo/Roman dance/mock dry humping was much cooler and longer. Deniz runs after Vanessa. She asks how he can talk to Roman when they just kissed a while ago. Says she is afraid he is turning gay again. Deniz says the doesn't want Roman. She says it hurts her to see him talking to Roman, and laughing and having fun. He says she's his girlfriend blablabla, suggest that they "make party" just the two of them. [in this scene Deniz makes the most hilarious "puppy dog lip" expression to get Va to forgive him] DENIZ IS SUCH A COWARDLY JACKASS. Ok, now that I have that off my chest, who wants to make a few screencaps? That was the dancing? I am rather disappointed in that as well from what you described. Here I wanted icons of them dancing but if all they do is sway without actually embracing or up on each other as if actually dancincing, then nevermind... Deniz had no response to Roman calling himself the better option? So at what point are we supposed to feel sorry for Vanessa? No, really? I feel zero sympathy for her even though her boyfriend is a lying cowardly jackass. She should know that already since she cheated with him when he was with Roman so the fact that DeRo has a past and obvious lingering chemistry shouldn't be something she can't handle nor be surprised about. And Deniz isn't turning gay again... he never left it. I know she's young but she's really clueless about sexuality. I am really surprised she hasn't wondered if DeRo were telling her the truth about the recent kiss since their behavior seems to imply the opposite of what she was told happened. Loved that snarky Roman is back. So much better than him playing the stalker or some pathetic, lovesick fool. He's much better when he let's his bitch come out and play, especially when it's with a very deserving of a smackdown Deniz. Ha, go Max! First putting Jenny in her place yesterday and smacking down DeVa for publicity purposes. I just saw Diana's hair in a pic on the RTL website and she looks like she has a pageboy the color of Ronald McDonald's hair. I thought real Nadja was back today but I guess it's just Diana. I want real Nadja back.
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Post by lolaruns on May 7, 2008 13:01:10 GMT -5
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Post by lolaruns on May 7, 2008 13:02:31 GMT -5
Roman didn't say that. That was just my interpretation of the scene, that Roman was trying to prove that he is the bigger person. (wait, that sounds like the setup for an inappropriate Vanessa joke here)
I was really struck by how much unwarranted lying Deniz did today. There were a whole bunch of times where he could just have not said anything (lie by omission/letting Vanessa believe what she believes), but instead he actively jumped in an added a lie. What a dick.
That said, I thought the actress who plays Vanessa was actually quite good in the scene where she talks about how seening Deniz with Roman hurts her.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 7, 2008 13:14:56 GMT -5
Roman didn't say that. That was just my interpretation of the scene, that Roman was trying to prove that he is the bigger person. (wait, that sounds like the setup for an inappropriate Vanessa joke here) It does, and let's not bring up that red spandex shirt. I think that's why even subconsciously I chose better instead of bigger. I still like Vanessa on some level just not in any way that has anything to do with her romantic relationship with Deniz. Ugh. So Deniz had no response to it, though? Thanks for the screencaps. That certainly doesn't look like dancing between DeRo, esp when you compare it to Roman & Ingo. It looks like Deniz's arm is on Roman's shoulder. Is that what possibly threw her off and made her think they were dancing? Made the chemistry between DeRo caused her to realize the OBVIOUS. ;D Seriously though, I am thinking that the reason it hurts Vanessa to see DeRo together is that on some level she knows the truth of what is going on with Deniz, her relationship with him and the unfinished stuff between De & Ro. Igor needs a bit of chapstick in that pouty lip scene. I know it gets cold in Germany, I'm just sayin'... He still looks hot though. Really hot. *swoons* And eeeeew to Marian and Nina. How old is Nina? Marian's supposed to be like 35, right?
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Post by lolaruns on May 7, 2008 13:19:24 GMT -5
I don't remember him saying anything to Roman. Again Roman was just saying that he wants Deniz to get what he wants/go for what he wants (though in my eyes he was going *hinthinthint* the entire time) and then said he now had to take care of the fan letter he just received and walked off, leaving Deniz standing/sitting there.
As for the dancing, maybe they were and Vanessa saw it since she saw the full body shot, but we just got the head/talking to each other shot? I have no idea. Personally, when Vanessa was truthful to Deniz in this episode about her feelings it felt like she was giving him an out and here it was him who jumped in and denied it all. Stupid Deniz,
About Nina, I have no idea, but Marian mentioned in this episode that he wouldn't serve her alcohol because she wasn't old enough. Go figure.
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Post by amber80 on May 7, 2008 13:38:21 GMT -5
That's a really funny face... ;D
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Post by lolaruns on May 7, 2008 13:39:09 GMT -5
I was laughing so hard during that scene.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 7, 2008 14:52:00 GMT -5
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Post by Bonobochick on May 7, 2008 20:57:14 GMT -5
I finally got a chance to watch the episode. I was IMing someone at the time So these are my thoughts as I watched it: - Diana's hair is a terrible, unflattering color
- Nina is stalking Nadja & Marian by calling them on the phone then not saying anything
- I covet that Steinkamp bathtub
- Haaaa, Roman got fan mail from a girl with pink hearts all over the envelope.
- Deniz is such a ball-less idiot
- Yay, Max is laying the smackdown about him being single. Va totally evil eyed Max for it
- Diana gave Roman geschenke sheisse (yea I am wrong but you know what I mean)
- Diana's hair color is a trainwreck
- [DeRo] weren't dancing. What they looked like that probably upset V was like they were very flirtatious and comfy with each other
If I had walked in on them like that and didn't know their story, they'd look like a couple to me. SERIOUSLY. It's only 5 seconds long but it says a whole lot
- V caught them after she walked boring Juli to the door and were I her, it'd make me doubt stuff too cause... well, you will see it but you know what I mean
- Deniz is such a chickensh*t. Lying again about Roman kissing him.
- I have like zero sympathy for Vanessa's whining to Deniz that he is with her.
- JA is doing a good job in the scene with V talking about her issues with Roman but it's just all so stupid
- Hoooooly crap, you have to see Ingo and Roman dancing.
- There is soooooo much bad dancing at the end of this episode. Think the club scene in VL but worse.
- Nina es muy loco. Marian asks her what she wants? She replies Sex ---- long pause --- on the beach
So 2 weeks now til Truth Or Dare?
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Post by lolaruns on May 7, 2008 21:56:24 GMT -5
She gave him Scheissgeschenke or beschissene Geschenke And I thought Vanessa had somewhat of a point for a change in her last rants (at least compared to a lot of stuff she has been saying lately) when she more or less said "Dude, you just confessed to me that you kissed him and now you run around acting like it's all fine and dandy?". I kinda liked the dancing. It looked like real people having fun
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Post by Bonobochick on May 8, 2008 10:26:02 GMT -5
She gave him Scheissgeschenke or beschissene Geschenke And I thought Vanessa had somewhat of a point for a change in her last rants (at least compared to a lot of stuff she has been saying lately) when she more or less said "Dude, you just confessed to me that you kissed him and now you run around acting like it's all fine and dandy?". I kinda liked the dancing. It looked like real people having fun Did she say "you kissed him" or "he kissed you" to Deniz? I thought V had some points but at the same time I also thought that if she'd actually thoguht about what she was saying, she'd already realize a few obvious truths, but alas...
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Post by lolaruns on May 8, 2008 10:29:54 GMT -5
In the scene at the end? I think she said "you kissed each other". Actually she seems to be reasonably aware of how it doesn't make all that much difference. In the beginning scene she tells Jenny "He kissed Roman. No, he let himself be kissed". So she doesn't give Deniz some magical free pass just because to her knowledge Roman was the one who initiated it.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 8, 2008 10:50:27 GMT -5
In the scene at the end? I think she said "you kissed each other". Actually she seems to be reasonably aware of how it doesn't make all that much difference. In the beginning scene she tells Jenny "He kissed Roman. No, he let himself be kissed". So she doesn't give Deniz some magical pass just because to her knowledge Roman was the one who initiated it. Yet she still won't let the truth of the situation sink to a deeper level cause in her shoes, could any of us on here not look at what has gone on between the 3 of them & go something isn't right? I mean, Vanessa knows Deniz loves her... we all know Deniz loves her... but on some level Vanessa has to know it's not the type of love that she wants it to be. I really want her to find out that Deniz is the one who kissed Roman so that maybe she will wake the hell up. Cause DeRo by the bar? Who wouldn't have thought seeing that those two were together? I think she's got so many doubts cause she knows - when she truly lets herself think about it - that De & Ro still click in ways that are troublesome for her relationship with Deniz.
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Post by lolaruns on May 8, 2008 11:00:02 GMT -5
But here's the thing, in what way is she more pathetic than Roman, who still runs after the guy who cheated on him? Gay or straight, a cheater is a cheater. Vanessa should beware because if he cheated with her, chances are good he would cheat ON her too. But same for Roman, if Deniz would cheat once, chances are that he would cheat again.
It seems that Vanessa and Roman are in the same boat here, so insecure that they would run after a guy like Deniz. And Vanessa talks about her fears (rather than pretending that everything is perfect) and Deniz keeps assuring her. Is she stupid to believe him? Sure. But considering that they used to have a long standing friendship, I can see why she might think/hope that he would at least be truthful with her. She strikes me as no different than Roman was when he and Deniz were together and he could feel Deniz slipping away. Only that so far she hasn't faked an injury to get him to stay with her.
I don't know. I have seen storylines with the pathetic clingy woman while the guy would rather be with X. Vanessa? Not even top 10 at the moment. (Jana of Jana/Leonhard/Sarah springs to mind, or Macy during Macy/Thorne/Brooke, or Lily during Lily/Sonny/Brenda)
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Post by Bonobochick on May 8, 2008 11:15:27 GMT -5
But here's the thing, in what way is she more pathetic than Roman, who still runs after the guy who cheated on him? Gay or straight, a cheater is a cheater. Vanessa should beware because if he cheated with her, chances are good he would cheat ON her too. But same for Roman, if Deniz would cheat once, chances are that he would cheat again. It seems that Vanessa and Roman are in the same boat here, so insecure that they would run after a guy like Deniz. And Vanessa talks about her fears (rather than pretending that everything is perfect) and Deniz keeps assuring her. Is she stupid to believe him? Sure. But considering that they used to have a long standing friendship, I can see why she might think/hope that he would at least be truthful with her. She strikes me as no different than Roman was when he and Deniz were together and he could feel Deniz slipping away. Only that so far she hasn't faked an injury to get him to stay with her. I don't know. I have seen storylines with the pathetic clingy woman while the guy would rather be with X. Vanessa? Not even top 10 at the moment. (Jana of Jana/Leonhard/Sarah springs to mind, or Macy during Macy/Thorne/Brooke, or Lily during Lily/Sonny/Brenda) I don't think she's more pathetic than Roman though she is acting pathetic. Actually it is a draw between them cause they both are acting in craptacular ways when it comes to Deniz, just differently. I HATE the way TIIC are writing stalker, desperate Roman; it's only when they let his bitch come out like recently that I stop cursing at the screen for them crippling the character in this storyline. I think of everyone in this triangle, she's the one with common sense so seeing her willingly put her head in the sand about Deniz or always finger the blame on Roman when it takes two to tango is painful. And yes, she seems to forget that she is with a cheater. Then again, maybe that is why she's so forceful about keeping Roman away from Deniz. I don't see her as clingy, but she's definitely rightfully insecure about her relationship with Deniz, but for the wrong reasons. Perhaps that is why she has to run to Roman, to Jenny, to Ben, to Juli, to Daddy and say "Deniz isn't gay again... Deniz is with me". Whatever that means. Vanessa may be voicing that she's not giving Deniz a free pass but her actions seem to say otherwise more times than not. And the fact that she has been friends with him so long should make her more clued in to the fact that Deniz not only has a tendency to run away from conflict/ tough situations, he also has trouble with the truth when it makes him come off like the bad guy.
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Post by lolaruns on May 8, 2008 11:22:59 GMT -5
The thing is, it's not as clear cut as Vanessa running around seeking assurance and crowing on about how Deniz is straight and with her. Deniz does a ton of that himself. And often with her and unprompted. (there is a difference between going "Deniz, you are with me, right? Please, please, please, sadface!", and, Deniz constantly jumping forward with "I love you and I'm with you"). Not to mention with both her dad and Jenny she did wonder about Deniz state rather than state that he wasn't gay. And now with Deniz she again brought up the option that he might be "falling back" and he denied it.
At moment she seems rather straight forward with her feelings rather than acting in denial or trying to cover up what is going on or trying to assure herself.
It just seems to me that that she is in good company in this triangle where everybody is acting like an idiot. So what obligation does she have to be the smart one and bow out? Besides, she is what? 17? Compared to much older Roman. Between the two, Roman is the one who should know better and not her.
Not to mention that the only one who really knows what is going on inside of Deniz is Deniz. So in the end, he is the truly selfish one, messing with both Roman and Vanessa.
Again, want to see a truly at fault/pathetic interluder? Look no further than Nina or Jenny (in Diana/Julian).
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Post by Bonobochick on May 8, 2008 11:52:32 GMT -5
The thing is, it's not as clear cut as Vanessa running around seeking assurance and crowing on about how Deniz is straight and with her. Deniz does a ton of that himself. And often with her and unprompted. (there is a difference between going "Deniz, you are with me, right? Please, please, please, sadface!", and, Deniz constantly jumping forward with "I love you and I'm with you"). Not to mention with both her dad and Jenny she did wonder about Deniz state rather than state that he wasn't gay. And now with Deniz she again brought up the option that he might be "falling back" and he denied it. At moment she seems rather straight forward with her feelings rather than acting in denial or trying to cover up what is going on or trying to assure herself. It just seems to me that that she is in good company in this triangle where everybody is acting like an idiot. So what obligation does she have to be the smart one and bow out? Besides, she is what? 17? Compared to much older Roman. Between the two, Roman is the one who should know better and not her. Not to mention that the only one who really knows what is going on inside of Deniz is Deniz. So in the end, he is the truly selfish one, messing with both Roman and Vanessa. Again, want to see a truly at fault/pathetic interluder? Look no further than Nina or Jenny (in Diana/Julian). Though she is being straightforward with her feelings, that doesn't mean she isn't still fooling herself about a number of things. It seems like whenever she lets herself think about the situation, she realizes that all is not right. She can verbally give Deniz an "out" of their relationship but she knows - just like we in the audience know - that he won't take it. Like I said, Vanessa knows he loves her but I think she also knows on some level it is not the type of love that she wants. Deniz, until TIIC actually make him either sympathetic or give Igor the material that shows that Deniz is all kinds of fucked in the head, is a lost cause.
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Post by lolaruns on May 8, 2008 23:04:14 GMT -5
Again, the very same gamble that Roman was willing to take too when he and Deniz were together. And he was willing to lie and deceive to make it happen. Not exactly my idea of romance either. Which is why I have such a hard time rooting for DeRo to get together at the moment. Because to me Vanessa is the red herring, as long as Roman and Deniz haven't convincingly sold me on the emotional side, them getting together would be a fool's win. So to me Vanessa isn't the real problem. You can do love stories where the pathetic person between them is the only obstacle. I just don't feel that this is the case here because both Deniz and Roman are acting wrong (including wrong for each other) here too. I'm not a fan of "Vanessa should dump Deniz so he can come to his senses", because I don't feel that that is Vanessa's obgligation. For me, Deniz should come up with that on his own.
Of course Vanessa should dump Deniz for her own sake (Ben, please come back! I'm sure we'll find a way to make you adopted or switched at birth! Screw paternity tests!), but I don't see how that makes DeRo better at all when they are quite unsympathetic on their own at the moment.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 9, 2008 2:15:36 GMT -5
Again, the very same gamble that Roman was willing to take too when he and Deniz were together. And he was willing to lie and deceive to make it happen. Not exactly my idea of romance either. Which is why I have such a hard time rooting for DeRo to get together at the moment. Because to me Vanessa is the red herring, as long as Roman and Deniz haven't convincingly sold me on the emotional side, them getting together would be a fool's win. So to me Vanessa isn't the real problem. You can do love stories where the pathetic person between them is the only obstacle. I just don't feel that this is the case here because both Deniz and Roman are acting wrong (including wrong for each other) here too. I'm not a fan of "Vanessa should dump Deniz so he can come to his senses", because I don't feel that that is Vanessa's obgligation. For me, Deniz should come up with that on his own. Of course Vanessa should dump Deniz for her own sake (Ben, please come back! I'm sure we'll find a way to make you adopted or switched at birth! Screw paternity tests!), but I don't see how that makes DeRo better at all when they are quite unsympathetic on their own at the moment. I get what you're saying but my points about Vanessa aren't to sell DeRo cause while I want them back together eventually, at the moment, Deniz is too selfish and cowardly to be with anyone. My points weren't about comparing DeVa to DeRo but specifically the relationship of DeVa and Vanessa's behavior. That is why I was strictly talking about Vanessa & her relationship with Deniz and why I think she's burying her head in the sand. I was analyzing her motivations and behavior separately from just comparing her behavior with Roman's behavior. I don't always do comparisons to figure out what is "best" between certain things (It's the Anthropologist in me ). Sometimes I measure things on their own merit, and that is what I was doing with DeVa. DeRo have their own set of problems (boy, do they!) but they're not a couple at the moment, despite that there are things still obviously between them.
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Post by lolaruns on May 9, 2008 2:31:21 GMT -5
And for me those situations are parallels. If Roman could and can think that his relationship with Deniz still has a chance, why shouldn't Vanessa come to a similar conclusion? Especially since she actually has pointers in her direction like people telling her it will be okay (from Jenny to her dad; even Anette and Ingo are taking her side by extension) and Deniz is still swearing up and down that he is serious (now, of course he did that with Roman too back when they were still a couple).
I don't dispute she is dumb, but I do think she is in good company. Not to mention, her making the decision for Deniz is just protecting him from ever having to man up and make a decision himself. Which to me would flaw the whole process.
To me Deniz is the real villain here. Both Roman and Vanessa, no matter how self-confident and cocky they act, are acting extremely insecure around him (and I'm sure both have reasons based on their personal history) and he is reaping the benefits.
Sure it's deeply stupid of her to get involved with a gay guy. But considering that she seems to be problems truly grasping the concept of gayness (all the "turning gay") talk, I'm not that surprised.
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Post by Bonobochick on May 9, 2008 2:41:47 GMT -5
To me Deniz is the real villain here. Both Roman and Vanessa, no matter how self-confident and cocky they act, are acting extremely insecure around him (and I'm sure both have reasons based on their personal history) and he is reaping the benefits. There is no doubt about that, which is why the writing of this triangle is so frustrating. TIIC aren't doing a good job at writing it nor explaining why Vanessa or Roman would sacrifice self-respect (Roman) or common sense (Vanessa) to be with him. Love can make you do the wacky, but come on! And there are some parallels but for me, I find it is also worth analyzing a situation on its own merit.
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Post by lolaruns on May 9, 2008 2:50:03 GMT -5
I think the problem with analyzing people in this triangle is that not one person in it is reacting in any logical way.
It drives me crazy how the presentation seems to change so much from episode to episode. For example, the episode where Roman covers for Deniz felt like a really pro-DeRo episode, yet in the non-dancing episode, most of that was lost again. It just doesn't feel very cohesive. Kinda like Deniz and Vanessa were reacting very strange in the Ben/DeRo kiss episode. In a way that didn't really feel very in tune with the episodes that came after that. The whole storyline feels like everybody is getting their memory wiped after each episode.
Maybe it depends largely on whoever the director of whatever episode is?
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Post by Bonobochick on May 9, 2008 3:01:00 GMT -5
I think the problem with analyzing people in this triangle is that not one person in it is reacting in any logical way. It drives me crazy how the presentation seems to change so much from episode to episode. For example, the episode where Roman covers for Deniz felt like a really pro-DeRo episode, yet in the non-dancing episode, most of that was lost again. It just doesn't feel very cohesive. Kinda like Deniz and Vanessa were reacting very strange in the Ben/DeRo kiss episode. In a way that didn't really feel very in tune with the episodes that came after that. The whole storyline feels like everybody is getting their memory wiped after each episode. Maybe it depends largely on whoever the director of whatever episode is? It totally lacks cohesion & continuity and that is killing this storyline. Depending on the episode, it really does seems all over the place. Do TIIC know where they are going this storyline? It doesn't seem to be the case and it doesn't look to be getting much better in the next month. *sigh* If it largely does depend on the director, then I like whomever directed the Mai 6 episode.
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Post by lolaruns on May 9, 2008 3:25:06 GMT -5
I wonder if sometimes the writers have a very precise and definite vision of a storyline (like the DeRo coming out story, or Ollian getting together) and during that time period the episodes come out in a really cohesive way. And that after this particular vision is finished there are sort of "time pass" storylines. Where they either don't know where they are going or they sorta know, but they have to pass the time and that's where the storyline gets artificially stretched with weird and pointless stuff rather than pretty much every scene having a definite meaning to it.
(for the record, I sometimes see that with Ollian too. That different episodes seem to have a different tone, particularly in regards to Christian; like, whoa, he is crabby, oh, now he is a mushy pulp of happiness again; whoa, he is crabby again, didnt't we deal with this two weeks ago? And here I really wonder if it is directing)
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Post by Bonobochick on May 10, 2008 0:08:19 GMT -5
The calendar has been updated. We try to stay on top of what is coming up for the main shows and a few peripheral ones. There is a lot going on in the next month so pls let me know if any upcoming airing dates have been missed for this show. Thanks
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