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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 26, 2010 17:43:04 GMT -5
I wasn't impressed as less than a minute in, Reid's being an unprofessional asshole which I don't find cute and it seems like Luke's continuing the trend of hanging around the work place of the guy he's dating instead of working himself or going to school or doing something that is about him. Blech. I think I need vodka to get through the rest of this.
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music
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Post by music on Jul 26, 2010 17:52:02 GMT -5
I wasn't impressed as less than a minute in, Reid's being an unprofessional asshole which I don't find cute and it seems like Luke's continuing the trend of hanging around the work place of the guy he's dating instead of working himself or going to school or doing something that is about him. Blech. I think I need vodka to get through the rest of this. Ditto!
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Post by caitlinp on Jul 26, 2010 19:12:42 GMT -5
Luke does have a vested interest (besides Reid) in what goes on at he hospital.
If you all think Reid is unprofessional, you are going to be shocked by how John Dixon acts.
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Post by Zathras on Jul 26, 2010 20:06:19 GMT -5
I couldn't help but say laugh and say "oh, God" at the same time today . Reid is an asshole, and his personality is very grating. I suppose you can call him unprofessional in that way. He apparently got to where he is with that attitude, and it's not likely to change any time soon. So, I guess they had some time to bond ... but Luke's engaged in a futile exercise. I do agree with you, Bonobochick, that Luke desperately needs something to do other than hang around where his boyfriend works. Doesn't he have a charitable foundation to run? And the Grimaldi shipping business? Sigh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 23:17:23 GMT -5
I. don’t. get. it. How old is Reid? This mid 30-something needs lessons from the early 20-something that is Luke Snyder of all people? I have no doubt that Reid knows how to act with tact; he just chooses not to 90% of the time, as he’s actually pretty much said before. Is the whole point trying to show us that Luke is somehow now this wise and mature person able to impart wisdom and that Reid is just that clueless? I truly think he knows better, but chooses not to do it, period. The jerkiness combined with the seeming cluelessness didn’t ring as uncontrived (or fun, at least for me) as in the previous instances where he was a jerk; or maybe it just got old to me, I don’t know. There was some cute banter, but suddenly it becomes kind of Luke’s little pet project, even though I don’t doubt that he actually likes Reid. I’ll say it again, Luke should just be by himself and grow by himself for a while. Such growth would sound way more authentic to me. Having made the relationship happen, at least it could have been done more subtly, like things slowly seeping through with Reid. Not so much that he would magically know how to act with tact, because as I said I think he already knows how to, but he could slowly see why it can be important enough for him to actually do it, and not just because of a relationship or a need to be Chief of Staff. It didn’t have to be so spelled out or even part of Luke’s mission. As of now, it just doesn’t ring as true to me; the level of contriveness kind of takes me out of things. Hey, Noah mentions! He still exists? I probably sound a little disenchanted, but I think the little excitement I had over this whole storyline came to a head lately, the lack of airtime not helping. ATWT just doesn’t know what to do with good premises.
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 27, 2010 8:59:08 GMT -5
I keep reading this again and again, and i don't understand why people find so atrocious that Luke will keep lessons in good behaving to anyone. Luke is not the most mature young man, but he is way more polite and treat people way better than most people in the show, so i don't understand why is so difficult to believe that someone like him could help Reid to change his behaviour.
And i understand that not everybody has lo like Reid, but this (even with the lack of continuity) is far better than the 90% of storylines Nuke has to endure for the last three years. I can understand that Jake fans could be angry, but this is more or less the way this show treat him since he came to ATWT three years ago. He was useful to represent ATWT on awards, but they never treat him rightly on the show, so right now, when they don't need more publicity, they don't have a reason to treat him the way he deserve
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 9:27:02 GMT -5
And just like I used to criticize that 90% of Nuke ridiculousness you refer to, jjose712, I feel I can criticize this one when things don’t make sense to me either, unless Reid and Luke should be immune to all criticism. I can only speak for myself, but this is another case of buildup and followup not living up to expectations with ATWT. It’s nothing new. Nuke has had storylines where premises were good, but it quickly fell flat. It has for me here. I’ve already stated that the Reid arc was one of the best things to happen in the Nuke orbit on this show. I was however not sure ATWT would live it up down the road. And what I’ve seen lately has proven me right. The pattern came back. It’s a show not knowing what to do about character growth, which was always my primary drive for the characters. As I stated before, I like Luke, Noah and Reid. It doesn’t mean that when it doesn’t make sense or when characters are off, I can’t notice it.
By the way, I don’t believe that a person or relationship can change someone. I believe people in our lives can influence us to various degrees, but change is very much self-motivated. A person has to decide to change on their own for reasons that they can accept and internalize themselves. Otherwise, it is often fleeting promises of behavior adaptation which in time or quickly turn into returning to old habits.
I think it works better if you get to know a person, and, based on knowing them better fully, you decide whether you want to be and stay with them. And if that is the case, it is then all about understanding and compromising on what you don’t agree with, and, in time, if one or the other perceives and recognizes for themselves the need to smooth out some of their attitudes, then it just tends to happen naturally. That change is convincing.
If it is a quick “fix” that the writers are trying to sell with Luke/Reid, it doesn’t really ring true to me. Just unnecessary rounding of circles again. Honestly, I don’t even think there’s anything to really be “fixed” about Reid per se. He has his personality; it’s not always a likeable one, but it’s his. Maybe he could adapt better to certain situations, sure, but it’s his call. If it’s important enough for him, I don’t see how he couldn’t do it. He’s no baby and supposed to be way smart. Also, the little times he shows softness with Luke are proof that if it matters to him, he can and knows how to do it. But it needs to matter to him, not just to everyone else. Why is it important to be mindful of the staff or keep colleagues (like Chris) on the loop? Does he get it? That’s why I didn’t really care for him asking Luke to make him human or whatever, and then followed by yesterday’s episode. This has just been one of the false notes in this storyline for me. It could have been more subtle and actually smarter than that.
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sooky
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Post by sooky on Jul 27, 2010 10:44:53 GMT -5
I agree with the sentence that "Reid KNOWS how to act polite or formal but chooses not to most of the time". This episode was utter disappointment on my part. I know he isn't really good with being friendly, as shown in a few awkward scenes, but he can be a little formal. At least not AS extreme as shown in this episode. In any case, it could have been done so much better and it didn't need to be shown to this extent. ...and I was starting to like ATWT, but it turns out (pun maybe a little intended) that the writing hasn't changed too much to the better. Still liking Lure, still expecting some major awesome, like a couple of episodes in the past... But they do tend to overwrite things. You could really see the writers behind the scene, writing it, which shouldn't happen. But I won't go on complaining. It was a surprise that they managed to make me watch (eagerly, I say) again, so I guess that's as far as the credit goes. I especially agree with macari's last post - Pattern repetition.
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Post by caitlinp on Jul 27, 2010 11:29:47 GMT -5
I can understand that Jake fans could be angry, but this is more or less the way this show treat him since he came to ATWT three years ago. He was useful to represent ATWT on awards, but they never treat him rightly on the show, so right now, when they don't need more publicity, they don't have a reason to treat him the way he deserve This can't be said enough, and the underlined part is really the only reason why Jake was still around. The show did the same thing with may of their Black actors and actresses. They wouldn't hesitate to let people know that they were part of the cast, but they would be relegated to appearing at the most once a month, and never got any storylines that played out on screen. JP pretty much admitted that the last actress who played Luke's cousin (I'm blanking on the character's name) was brought in without having a storyline in place, and even though she promised that she would get one, that never happened. She was just brought in because they needed another black character in case Bonnie left.
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Post by caitlinp on Jul 27, 2010 11:35:50 GMT -5
I think this is what Reid is doing, and he pretty much said what you wrote. He said that he's not Noah, he's never going to be overly sentimental or thoughtful, and that he's just not that guy. The COS and Luke are very important to him, but that doesn't mean that his basic nature will change, we saw that today. He is very smart, and he knows how to work the system, we saw that in the past with how he knew that the hospital tour for Mona should start in the pediatric wing, or how he got Noah to relax before the surgery. I don't expect Reid to change, but I think he will find a better way to deal with people because he does want the position and Luke.
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Post by Hawthorne on Jul 27, 2010 14:39:54 GMT -5
I think that some of the disjointedness of the story has been the writers' need to keep Noah involved in the story past the point where he was originally supposed to be written out. I'm convinced that the writers had decided that Nuke had run its course & gone stale and that Luke needed a new love interest who brought with him lots of fresh storyline possibilities. I think that that weird scene where Luke inexplicably told Noah that he wanted him back even though he clearly wanted Reid both before and after the scene was supposed to be the scene where he gave Noah his final walking papers. But the writers couldn't have him do that because of the need to create this big decision for Luke in the final episodes. Luke needed to be kept more torn and less certain and so these awkard scenes of uncertainty where grafted onto a storyline that was originally a fairly well-thought out (for ATWT) transition into a new chapter of Luke's life.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 27, 2010 15:03:19 GMT -5
I am not sure about clearly... that's more like a mileage may very interpretation.
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Post by Hawthorne on Jul 27, 2010 15:24:58 GMT -5
"Clearly" probably does overstate it. Before the scene in question, though, Luke was telling Noah that a reunion was not in the cards for now, and then after the scene his interest in getting back with Noah appeared to vanish. He had several scenes at the coffee shop and elsewhere where the slightest intimation that he still wanted Noah would have had a big impact - and yet Luke was all about Reid. This is why I think Luke's desire to get back with Noah was just grafted into the Luke-Reod story. If you remove that one scene, everything becomes much more coherent and linear.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 27, 2010 15:35:02 GMT -5
Wait, were the coffee shop scenes before or after Luke told Reid he was still in love with Noah despite also having feelings for Reid?
I still think it's mileage may vary in terms of clarity because it's easy to have a relationship with a new person when the old one you were just with & still have feelings for isn't there. Let's see how Luke behaves when Noah comes back. I think that will provide more clarity to things.
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Post by Hawthorne on Jul 27, 2010 15:46:04 GMT -5
They were after Luke told Reid he was still in love with Noah and after Noah got his old job back. Luke never made any hint that he still wanted Noah when he saw him there.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 28, 2010 9:41:45 GMT -5
Was posted in the spoiler thread in error: It amazes me the continued discussion of a LARGE age difference between Luke and Reid. Did the continuity director miss a page or two of the script, or have people forgotten how to do simple math? In the discussion between Luke and Reid over their game of chess, Reid discloses he played chess as a child (teen) in Harvard Square and became a grand master, touring for his parent's approval until he got sick of being "a trained seal". He was an undergrad at the time. Let's say he finished Harvard at 16, medical school at 20 - interned at 21, surgical resident at 23. I mean the character is portrayed as a genius. A couple, 3 years knocking around puts him at about 25-26. That is a far cry from being 15+ years Luke's senior, who I believe is now 20 or so. Since I no longer watch the full episodes - I may have missed an "age reference" regarding Reid. Even if he's 15 years Luke's senior, has nothing to do with a developing relationship with Luke, other than the dismay of die hard Luke/Noah fans that believe that every teenage/college Gay relationship must survive. Reid is a grown man, that despite all odds regarding his young age (age discrimination) has demonstrated he deserves to be in his position, albeit it with people skill problems. Most successful straight couples use their spouses/partners to improve. What's the old saying, "Behind every great man is a woman"? Hell, even Bob Hughes' wife continues to "improve" her man. So, there is nothing wrong with Luke helping Reid or wanting to help. Doesn't have to always be about being "needy", even if that was a trait in the past. People grow up. Luke is an example. Though not mentioned that much, he has taken over and runs his father's empire as well as his own foundation and sits on the board of the hospital. And we know Bob wouldn't allow that if he didn't feel Luke could handle the job. Pretty damn good for a "kid". Nor would Bob offer the CoS position if he didn't feel that Reid could handle it. Know it's a soap, and, fans thrive on drama. But underlying common sense in character development still comes into play. As the storyline is being presented, Reid is competent. Luke has matured and can help his "impending partner". Just like in real life, people grow up and move on, and, more often than not - sunset endings only exist in fairy tales.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 28, 2010 9:56:39 GMT -5
Wait, is Luke still running Grimaldi shipping and the foundation?
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music
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Post by music on Jul 28, 2010 23:51:47 GMT -5
Wait, is Luke still running Grimaldi shipping and the foundation? I think from afar...very, very afar ;D.
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Post by Bonobochick on Jul 30, 2010 8:29:50 GMT -5
moved from another thread as posted by gryndyl:
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Post by Bonobochick on Aug 2, 2010 15:21:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 15:34:10 GMT -5
That was the best Luke/Reid episode in a while for me. It wasn’t exceptional, but it was just really better. Their interactions with each other and with Luke’s family members worked very well for the most part. Reid said they were together, lol! It was cheesy, but I like it much better when they stop unnecessarily tiptoeing around things. Reid’s convo with Molly was also good. It’s good they had Reid as the one to go to her in that moment, it kept it from being too mushy. The mushiness is already at its peak with Molly around anyway; this woman just can’t be in a scene without crying, can she? Anyway, this convo also further showcased the fact that Reid can have all the people skills in the world when he wants. It’s always his choice and he knows what he’s doing. He’s a jerk when and because he wants to be and he can be sweet in his own way when he wants to be. I just don’t buy all the “let’s help him be human” shtick and the over-cluelessness of last week for example. It’s much better this way, so let’s keep it like that. It’s funny to me how they keep bringing up those Noah mentions maybe to remind us that the guy still exists somewhere. Or maybe he’s a ghost or something, I don’t know. So, much better epi overall IMO, despite still some dragging of feet in the storytelling. At least there’ll be more airtime this week. Hopefully this is all a sign of a much better month.
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Post by caitlinp on Aug 2, 2010 16:51:47 GMT -5
I love Reid's talk with Molly, it was a reminder of the number of times that he's shown compassion towards other people. I agree with macari, he's incredibly smart, and he knows how to talk to people. It goes back to what Luke said about the differences between Dr. Oliver and Reid.
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sooky
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Post by sooky on Aug 2, 2010 17:31:14 GMT -5
This Ep is... WIN. 'Nough said! This is why Reid is awesome. (Why can't ATWT always be this awesome?!?)
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Post by Bonobochick on Aug 2, 2010 18:45:43 GMT -5
I love Reid's talk with Molly, it was a reminder of the number of times that he's shown compassion towards other people. I agree with macari, he's incredibly smart, and he knows how to talk to people. It goes back to what Luke said about the differences between Dr. Oliver and Reid. So when he was chewing out the nurse who dared to find him when a patient was in pain initially but not by the time he got there, he was just being an asshole but is really a compassionate guy? Lawd, next thing you know, the show will have him rescuing a pregnant dog and delivering her puppies to push home that point. Until the next week when it all changes again. Sorry, I am not buying that he's compassionate today but yet last week, Luke couldn't train him to not be a jerk to co-workers by taking a moment to be professional in his responses. It can't be both ways. Either he's socially inept thus why he's direct to the point of rudeness though underneath he's the sweetest man EVAH or he's an asshole because he owns that he doesn't mince words where others are concerned because he wants to be. Pick one, show, cause it totally seems like cake & eating it too going on IMO. Reid can be as Sybill as he wants but when everything he does is to the point that the personality is contradictory within a week, I call bullshit. It also continues the trend what I see as terrible & inconsistent writing for the character and all of his storylines.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 19:40:26 GMT -5
I love Reid's talk with Molly, it was a reminder of the number of times that he's shown compassion towards other people. I agree with macari, he's incredibly smart, and he knows how to talk to people. It goes back to what Luke said about the differences between Dr. Oliver and Reid. So when he was chewing out the nurse who dared to find him when a patient was in pain initially but not by the time he got there, he was just being an asshole but is really a compassionate guy? Lawd, next thing you know, the show will have him rescuing a pregnant dog and delivering her puppies to push home that point. Until the next week when it all changes again. Sorry, I am not buying that he's compassionate today but yet last week, Luke couldn't train him to not be a jerk to co-workers by taking a moment to be professional in his responses. It can't be both ways. Either he's socially inept thus why he's direct to the point of rudeness though underneath he's the sweetest man EVAH or he's an asshole because he owns that he doesn't mince words where others are concerned because he wants to be. Pick one, show, cause it totally seems like cake & eating it too going on IMO. Reid can be as Sybill as he wants but when everything he does is to the point that the personality is contradictory within a week, I call bullshit. It also continues the trend what I see as terrible & inconsistent writing for the character and all of his storylines. I think Reid chooses to be a jerk 90% of the time and chooses not to be the rest of the time. As I said, he knows what he’s doing; he’s supposedly a big boy and a smart guy. It’s a two-way street: it shows he can exhibit good qualities when he chooses to show compassion, and it shows that there’s a certain cruelty to him because he can just as well knowingly be an ass (thereby hurting people’s feelings). I can’t say he’s fundamentally evil because I don’t think he necessarily is but he can definitely be mean when he feels like it, which has been most of the time. Similarly, I can’t say in the absolute that he’s fundamentally a compassionate person but he can show some compassion when he feels like it or when something or the other compels him to, and it can be nice to see. In the end, he’s responsible for the nice feeling he can leave to those he shows compassion to, just like he’s responsible for the hurt feelings he can leave in others. As a viewer, I try fairness and focus on both. I don’t ignore the kindness he can show and I don’t unsee or bring up excuses to the nastiness he shows either, because it’s all his own choice. It doesn’t make him perfect, and he doesn't get a free pass ad infinitam from me just because of one act of kindness for 5 acts of nastiness, but it’s not all that far-fetched IMO unless it’s overdone because he's the one creating the contradictions. Now, I definitely can give it to you when it comes to last week, as I said before, the level of cluelessness (and the “make me human” thing) just didn’t make sense, and did lack consistency to me. But this is ATWT after all. I’m no longer as eager as I was before regarding the storyline as a whole, but I’ll see this to the end I think and take the occasional good and the bad, since it’s this show’s way.
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