sylstyle
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merci Flo
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Post by sylstyle on Jan 29, 2010 11:14:46 GMT -5
Thank you Nitty for your little dialogue and Joanna for your wallpaper ;D Sylvain
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kes
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 11:17:27 GMT -5
Drama! We've finally got it for Christian and Olli after waiting much too long. Yeah We get a post coital chat. Brief, I know but it was there. We get a roll in the hay, for our boys. Maybe it would have been better to see it as the prelude to their outdoor sex session, but a roll after will also do. Most of all I like all the alone time Christian and Olli had in this episode. I know that may seem a contradiction as the episode is about Christian feeling a bit neglected by Olli now that Rob seems to be sublety trying to seduce in all manner of ways. There's just so much to really like about this episode. So thanks to everyone that helped to get the episode synopsis, screen caps episodes, subtitles etc on here. Love you all for that. Saying all that I have a small niggle about the episode. It's what has stopped me from saying I love the episode. I really, really, want to love it, but I just can't and the reason is Thore Thore is gorgeous, stunning and often makes me doubt my allegiance to the wonderful Jo. When Thore is on top form, he is absolutely mesmerising and he was particulary hot in this episode. I could hardly tear my eyes away from him. And that's the problem, because I'm so focussed I can see in his body language that he is a straight man playing gay and that it seems like he mustn't appear to like it too much or immerse himself totally into the character. For example in the stables for the most part his body language seemed to be shouting I don't want to be here. Angle of body, lack of movement of arms, face turned away from Jo. Lovely as Joanna's caps and stimilon's montage are, sometimes to me at least they emphasise, this unease, this holding back that Thore has with portraying Christian's relationship with Olli. A point in question was Christian kissing David on the cheek. Thore approached that scene with a lot more gusto and passion. Why was that? It's a shame, because in the beginning Thore didn't have that restraint in his portrayal of being gay. You would think that he would be a lot easier and chilled out by now, but instead although his head is maybe saying he is cool and takes it all in his stride, maybe he doesn't quite feel it deep down inside. Could it be that it's because he is currently single as far as we know. If he had a partner like for example Igor who plays Dennis in AWZ or Gale who played Brian in Queer as Folk he would be more secure in himself and play Christian more freely. What do people think? Thanks Joanna ;D for the caps I missed you, Flip!!! I am so glad you posted! The discussion about your post was heated, but a good one. I hope you keep posting. You are so intelligent, and your insights a gift. Warmly, Kes
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Nitty
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Post by Nitty on Jan 29, 2010 11:32:42 GMT -5
Thank you Nitty for your little dialogue and Joanna for your wallpaper ;D Sylvain Liz wrote/posted that, not me.
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sylstyle
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merci Flo
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Post by sylstyle on Jan 29, 2010 11:34:17 GMT -5
Thank you Nitty for your little dialogue and Joanna for your wallpaper ;D Sylvain Liz wrote/posted that, not me. Oops sorry end of the week ;D Thanks Liz Sylvain
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Post by jj8899 on Jan 29, 2010 11:39:12 GMT -5
i know people hate a dero comparison and i myself think it's a bit stupid to try and take solid conclusions from a comparison, purely cos the soaps have a really different feel and it just seems like a pointless task - there's so many external factors influencing the choices the actors make. but saying that, for interests sake - would i be wrong in saying that deniz (dennis?) in AWZ is a bit older? and has a kid or something? i know that has no bearing on how good an actor you are, but for interests sake. to be fair i do think he is a little more confident than thore with playing a gay man - but i don't necessarily think that makes his scenes better (or worse dero lovers out there!), like flippa said, it's just little things in thore's body language that hint at him being uncomfortable. i dunno, but i get the impression it's more an issue of personal space being 'compromised' by another guy for the purpose of demonstrating intimacy. some people just have different limits than others. it's weird because it depends on so many factors. personally (and on a bit of a tangent) i'm inclined to think it's a background, cultural thing though. you get those strict muslim countries where men kiss eachother openly in the street (platonically of course) - and then you get quite liberal western cities - like some cities in my own country, not pointing any fingers - where it's supposedly metropolitan and 21st century, starbucks on every corner and if you walk down the street holding hands with another bloke you're just asking for trouble. not saying anything about the actors' background, but everything from where you live to the type of family you have affects the way you react to intimacy or being intimate, acting or not.
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kes
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 11:48:49 GMT -5
Johnny, I like your post. I'll offer my own analysis. I love Rob because he seems to be written as a terrific satire on the American neoliberal-liberal business-type -- He uses American expressions, makes every name a nick-name (Rob, Chris, Bob, etc.) and says things like "There is nothing that cannot be done!!!" That is SO American -- go to Ted.com (an interesting website with great speakers -- but which is pretty "American" in this sense -- great for learning English, though. All speeched subtitled/w transcripts available) and you'll hear speaker after speaker doing the exact same thing. Most of them are considered "liberal" in America, which is the closest we come to left-wing. Go figure. Note: Robert says, "Business first." For Americans of a certain type, business is the answer to everything, and anything you wish to do you CAN do, and if you don't it is your own damn fault. (Particularly if you're black. I mean, we are so over that racism thing, right? There ain't no racism left in the good ol' U.S. of A. Black people must like poverty, high infant-mortality rates, racial profiling, lower wages, imprisonment at highter rates per same crime as others, etc. ) I've found this ethos creeping into European business of late, and its kind of scary. I live in America, and things ain't so great here. I'm not quite sure why Europeans would want to give up health care, humane working hours, family time, etc. for good photo-shots of Sarkozy and his wife, t.v. dinners, and the promise of something better, when I'm not sure something better exists. Olli seems to me the prototypical European who believes in the new neoliberal ethos. He's ready to give up the wonders he has (Christian) in order to get some undefined, meaningless "better." Christian, of course, represents traditionalism. He has dreams, but treasures time at home, the pleasures of eating (note Rob's "food is overrated" credo -- a tip off right there. American's eat, but not well) the simple belief in doing what is right, and doing it well. Note the skill of his horsemanship. In this sense, his recent reticence around Olli would represent his discomfort with the uber-American, business utopia being ushered in by Merkel and Sarkozy. (Obama, too -- but in the states Obama represents a step UP. A big step.) He is uncomfortable with that part of Olli that wants to reach for the new era of the Uber-man being ushered in by the new world market. (Okay, I am reaching a bit with my Christian analysis. I actually think Liz is kind of right here, maybe.) There is a bit of wonderful and intelligent America-bashing going on here. I LOVE IT!!!! I also appreciate Engelke's subtle acting. He understates everything (including those winks) so that everything rings as true-to-life and not as too weird to be believed. (Those winks would have been SO STUPID coming from someone who couldn't act. I mean, who winks like that at a first meeting with the boyfriend right there? Max was able to make it plausible.) This is fascinating. I LOVE this writing. I know I sound like I'm pushing it, but it's clear to me that the writers are having fun pushing a subtle message between the lines. What makes it funnier is that Rob may be intended to woo Americans because he does speak their language. What irony!
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Post by jj8899 on Jan 29, 2010 12:52:30 GMT -5
kes i think you're right. i just watched the vlog this week. and it really struck me that christian (and to a certain extent gregor) don't understand that people strive for more than just moderate success. they are happy with their little lot. as long as things are going smoothly and they have someone to love and share it with. they have no fire in their bellies for something different, something extraordinary in the field of work. like when olli said to christian not give up cos it was his number one dream and christian was like my second biggest dream - there's no choice between boxing and olli for him. whether olli has huge ideas and dreams for his modern city life and bustling bar. and he's trying to split himself down the middle. it's like an unsolvable cross of viewpoints. they will never work it out for both of them to be 100% happy. they'll have to compromise. that's where i hope the story is. rather than in chribecca or even olbert or EVEN chrobert (!!) (though i love sexy robert and could do with seeing a damn sight more of him). because then it would be something natural that's been building since the day they met that they have to work out. rather than something contrived and unbelievable.
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Post by riboflavinb2 on Jan 29, 2010 13:23:37 GMT -5
Will the real Flippa please stand up!!!!
Guys, Flippa has asked me to make sure you understand that Flippityfloppityflip is NOT Flippa.
The Flippa who makes Erwin videos does not agree with Flippityfloppityflip's assessment of Thore or his acting skills or any indications that he's uncomfortable in his role. (And neither do I.)
Thank you.
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Post by blondeninjagirl on Jan 29, 2010 13:30:21 GMT -5
I agree with johnny. I noticed it too, dammit. Oh wells.. Kes. That is a great insight of Robert, you're making me love him even more lol. That bad boy is too tempting.
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kes
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 13:31:13 GMT -5
Will the real Flippa please stand up!!!!Guys, Flippa has asked me to make sure you understand that Flippityfloppityflip is NOT Flippa. The Flippa who makes Erwin videos does not agree with Flippityfloppityflip's assessment of Thore or his acting skills or any indications that he's uncomfortable in his role. (And neither do I.) Thank you. "Flip" was meant as a shortened version of Flippityfloppityflip. I'm not sure if this merits such an angry reaction, but point taken. I wish "Flippa" would express him or herself. It feels wierd getting this third-hand like this. No harm was ever meant. However, I will be careful not to take Flippa's name in vane in the future. Riboflavin: I love your posts, but Liz was being polite, and her post was interesting. She derserves a kinder reponse, nu? Your respose seems kind of clipped and derisive. I know I feel a little hurt right now. (Forgive me: I appreciate you and Flippa. I just think people should be able to express their views, and when people shorten one name and someone is frightened it may sound like their own, then that can be handled kindly, too. )
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sylstyle
Senior Member
merci Flo
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Post by sylstyle on Jan 29, 2010 13:46:11 GMT -5
Johnny, I like your post. I'll offer my own analysis. I love Rob because he seems to be written as a terrific satire on the American neoliberal-liberal business-type -- He uses American expressions, makes every name a nick-name (Rob, Chris, Bob, etc.) and says things like "There is nothing that cannot be done!!!" That is SO American -- go to Ted.com (an interesting website with great speakers -- but which is pretty "American" in this sense -- great for learning English, though. All speeched subtitled/w transcripts available) and you'll hear speaker after speaker doing the exact same thing. Most of them are considered "liberal" in America, which is the closest we come to left-wing. Go figure. Note: Robert says, "Business first." For Americans of a certain type, business is the answer to everything, and anything you wish to do you CAN do, and if you don't it is your own damn fault. (Particularly if you're black. I mean, we are so over that racism thing, right? There ain't no racism left in the good ol' U.S. of A. Black people must like poverty, high infant-mortality rates, racial profiling, lower wages, imprisonment at highter rates per same crime as others, etc. ) I've found this ethos creeping into European business of late, and its kind of scary. I live in America, and things ain't so great here. I'm not quite sure why Europeans would want to give up health care, humane working hours, family time, etc. for good photo-shots of Sarkozy and his wife, t.v. dinners, and the promise of something better, when I'm not sure something better exists. Olli seems to me the prototypical European who believes in the new neoliberal ethos. He's ready to give up the wonders he has (Christian) in order to get some undefined, meaningless "better." Christian, of course, represents traditionalism. He has dreams, but treasures time at home, the pleasures of eating (note Rob's "food is overrated" credo -- a tip off right there. American's eat, but not well) the simple belief in doing what is right, and doing it well. Note the skill of his horsemanship. In this sense, his recent reticence around Olli would represent his discomfort with the uber-American, business utopia being ushered in by Merkel and Sarkozy. (Obama, too -- but in the states Obama represents a step UP. A big step.) He is uncomfortable with that part of Olli that wants to reach for the new era of the Uber-man being ushered in by the new world market. (Okay, I am reaching a bit with my Christian analysis. I actually think Liz is kind of right here, maybe.) There is a bit of wonderful and intelligent America-bashing going on here. I LOVE IT!!!! I also appreciate Engelke's subtle acting. He understates everything (including those winks) so that everything rings as true-to-life and not as too weird to be believed. (Those winks would have been SO STUPID coming from someone who couldn't act. I mean, who winks like that at a first meeting with the boyfriend right there? Max was able to make it plausible.) This is fascinating. I LOVE this writing. I know I sound like I'm pushing it, but it's clear to me that the writers are having fun pushing a subtle message between the lines. What makes it funnier is that Rob may be intended to woo Americans because he does speak their language. What irony! Sorry I out my answer in the wrong thread. Well as a French I will answer you about France everything Sarkosy is trying to change in France : retirement, health care, public services = he will fail. first reason is that this is part of French culture so this will be difficult to change that (especially "la poste", hospitals ....). And second everyone hates him ;D. As for business, companies that in the past send their production in eastern europe or China are coming back. + we are still the country with the most holidays ;D. We are hardworking but family is still more important as well as human being (resto du coeur, hemmaus..) I hope this will help Sylvain
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Post by riboflavinb2 on Jan 29, 2010 13:50:43 GMT -5
Other's (going back) Have said Flippa. (Flippa is a girl.) You're getting it third hand because shes not an active poster anymore. Sorry if it seemed abrasive. She sent me an email and I made the reply. Since I'm not Flippa, I just gave a general highlights that their opinions (wrong or right) are not the same. There's no meaning behind it than that. Anyone is entitled to speak what he/she thinks. My post was only meant to bring attention to the fact that there are two people with similar names, one of whom is unable to make the post herself and asked me to do it for her. I didn't go into detail of my own thoughts because most of it's been covered. I don't see any indication that Thore isn't comfortable in his role and that scene didn't bother me in the slightest. I'm trying to think how to word this next part... That scene was filmed outdoors in November. Both actors were [probably] freezing and just wanted to get the scene done...since they're not exactly dressed warm! Finally, Thore pulling his head away.... it's a bad camera angle but I believe he did so to make room for Jo's head on his shoulder. Since I have the spotlight... I'll say this... I cannot believe that we still have discussions like this. Why must there be such nitpicking of scenes? Yes. The man is straight...OMG straight. So what? 2 years later... who gives a crap if he is or isn't comfortable. If he wasn't... he wouldn't be doing it. I get that sometimes a scene doesn't play the way the person watching it imagines or would like it to. But I want to stress that there are ENORMOUS other factors that go into the final product of a scene, camera angle, how it gets edited, the location, the warmth of the set/location, stressed about something going on at home, director's choices, and so on... Whether or not someone takes issue with one of Thore's acting choices... I personally think on a WHOLE he's amazing at what he does. Regarding the smooch on David's cheek... he played it with gusto to be funny and his whole mood that scene was over the top in love.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jan 29, 2010 14:00:07 GMT -5
moderator post
Hello,
If anyone has a problem with the percieved tone of someone's post you are welcome to private message a moderator or private message that poster themselves.
You are NOT welcome to post an admonishment to that person in this thread.
The tone has been just fine in my opinion, so please stop.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 14:00:27 GMT -5
Other's (going back) Have said Flippa. (Flippa is a girl.) You're getting it third hand because shes not an active poster anymore. Sorry if it seemed abrasive. She sent me an email and I made the reply. Since I'm not Flippa, I just gave a general highlights that their opinions (wrong or right) are not the same. There's no meaning behind it than that. Anyone is entitled to speak what he/she thinks. My post was only meant to bring attention to the fact that there are two people with similar names, one of whom is unable to make the post herself and asked me to do it for her. I didn't go into detail of my own thoughts because most of it's been covered. I don't see any indication that Thore isn't comfortable in his role and that scene didn't bother me in the slightest. I'm trying to think how to word this next part... That scene was filmed outdoors in November. Both actors were [probably] freezing and just wanted to get the scene done...since they're not exactly dressed warm! Finally, Thore pulling his head away.... it's a bad camera angle but I believe he did so to make room for Jo's head on his shoulder. Since I have the spotlight... I'll say this... I cannot believe that we still have discussions like this. Why must there be such nitpicking of scenes? Yes. The man is straight...OMG straight. So what? 2 years later... who gives a crap if he is or isn't comfortable. If he wasn't... he wouldn't be doing it. I get that sometimes a scene doesn't play the way the person watching it imagines or would like it to. But I want to stress that there are ENORMOUS other factors that go into the final product of a scene, camera angle, how it gets edited, the location, the warmth of the set/location, stressed about something going on at home, director's choices, and so on... Whether or not someone takes issue with one of Thore's acting choices... I personally think on a WHOLE he's amazing at what he does. Regarding the smooch on David's cheek... he played it with gusto to be funny and his whole mood that scene was over the top in love. Riboflavinb2: You are a class act! Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response. Actually, I know Flippa is a woman, but didn't know if it was right to say so. I actually miss her posts, too! However, I understand if she doesn't want to post anymore. You are also being a good friend in voicing her concerns. I want to think about what you've said. I think in the end it may be counterproductive to read too much of the actor into the role. However, as gay people post here, and as they have to "live" with alll it is to be gay in this world, people might do so more often -- there's a strange line where acting meets politics, meets, identity meets heart. In any case, I actually do think that Christian is more of a traditionalist. He is being set apart from Rob in an interesting way. I like the writing here. What's your opinion? Finally: My own reaction to your post was a bit peevish. Sorry! I was hurt. I love this community. Thanks for being you.
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kes
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Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 14:03:00 GMT -5
moderator postHello, If anyone has a problem with the percieved tone of someone's post you are welcome to private message a moderator or private message that poster themselves. You are NOT welcome to post an admonishment to that person in this thread. The tone has been just fine in my opinion, so please stop. Thanks Tihkon. This is a well-moderated thread, and community. Sometimes I can get annoyed when moderators critique me, but I think you make this community work. I feel safer and happier knowing you are out there. Thanks so much.
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Post by jj8899 on Jan 29, 2010 14:06:24 GMT -5
wow, even though i banged on endlessly about how external factors must have contributed to the final end product - that hay stack scene huh?!? i'm confused, why can't we have conversations about when we think the actors do a less than stellar performance?! we say it about rebecca enough. thore may be a straight man, and that may have been dissected to death BUT he is playing a *GAY* man and yesterday he wasn't convincing. sorry, i didn't want to say it so bluntly but i'm annoyed cos i feel like i'm indirectly being censored. and i know riboflavin2 that you didn't say what you did of your own volition but were spotlighted into giving your opinion but still.. it came off as a little (i'm just gonna say it, i looked for a milder word, sorry) but, it came off as rude. if you can't ever talk about the worse times, than how the eff are you ever meant to appreciate the brilliant scenes, like ktichen dancing yesterday or vlog today?!!? also you aren't obligated to read every single post on here. and this place can be so strenuously rule abiding it makes natural flowing conversation hard and expressing concerns with the show a minefield. and apologies about flippa flippityflipflop and anyone else i may have inadvertently offended. my brain is evidently too small to contain so much information
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Post by riboflavinb2 on Jan 29, 2010 14:13:20 GMT -5
Kes! I can't speak for Flippa but her reasons are for not posting she just can't right now. She's got life things. Good things... but life things. She too loves the community but doesn't have the time to give it. Maybe she'll come back if we clap. She does read/lurk no and then. On the "gay people post here" .... my question is so? Is it fair to go seeking "fear" in a straight actor's commitment to his role? I don't think so. I'm not saying that's happening... I just can't believe we're analyzing Thore this much...for like the 37,000 time. It's getting old to me. We don't chastise Jo in that way... and there's LOTS of times I don't agree with how some of his scenes get played. (love the man tho...I'd just have directed 'em differently.) I honestly think... and this is off topic in a lot of ways, we don't chastise Jo because there's still the ambiguity of his personal sexuality. I'm not opening up the is he/ isn't he quest. But because people don't know... they can see him as what they want him to be and so they don't go looking for when he might not come off as genuine. And I don't think that's fair. How do I feel about the stoyline/writing? It's good. It's true to character (I think) and it's fun to watch. Olli is too trusting. Christian sees through everyone. Hell GREGOR saw it. And hell if Gregor pays attention to anything. I like Max... I like the dynamic. Over all, I'm really enjoying the show right now. But, if you want to DM me (so we can get back on topic) go for it. I have a few more things I can/would say in private. Other's (going back) Have said Flippa. (Flippa is a girl.) You're getting it third hand because shes not an active poster anymore. Sorry if it seemed abrasive. She sent me an email and I made the reply. Since I'm not Flippa, I just gave a general highlights that their opinions (wrong or right) are not the same. There's no meaning behind it than that. Anyone is entitled to speak what he/she thinks. My post was only meant to bring attention to the fact that there are two people with similar names, one of whom is unable to make the post herself and asked me to do it for her. I didn't go into detail of my own thoughts because most of it's been covered. I don't see any indication that Thore isn't comfortable in his role and that scene didn't bother me in the slightest. I'm trying to think how to word this next part... That scene was filmed outdoors in November. Both actors were [probably] freezing and just wanted to get the scene done...since they're not exactly dressed warm! Finally, Thore pulling his head away.... it's a bad camera angle but I believe he did so to make room for Jo's head on his shoulder. Since I have the spotlight... I'll say this... I cannot believe that we still have discussions like this. Why must there be such nitpicking of scenes? Yes. The man is straight...OMG straight. So what? 2 years later... who gives a crap if he is or isn't comfortable. If he wasn't... he wouldn't be doing it. I get that sometimes a scene doesn't play the way the person watching it imagines or would like it to. But I want to stress that there are ENORMOUS other factors that go into the final product of a scene, camera angle, how it gets edited, the location, the warmth of the set/location, stressed about something going on at home, director's choices, and so on... Whether or not someone takes issue with one of Thore's acting choices... I personally think on a WHOLE he's amazing at what he does. Regarding the smooch on David's cheek... he played it with gusto to be funny and his whole mood that scene was over the top in love. Riboflavinb2: You are a class act! Thanks for your kind and thoughtful response. Actually, I know Flippa is a woman, but didn't know if it was right to say so. I actually miss her posts, too! However, I understand if she doesn't want to post anymore. You are also being a good friend in voicing her concerns. I want to think about what you've said. I think in the end it may be counterproductive to read too much of the actor into the role. However, as gay people post here, and as they have to "live" with alll it is to be gay in this world, people might do so more often -- there's a strange line where acting meets politics, meets, identity meets heart. In any case, I actually do think that Christian is more of a traditionalist. He is being set apart from Rob in an interesting way. I like the writing here. What's your opinion? Finally: My own reaction to your post was a bit peevish. Sorry! I was hurt. I love this community. Thanks for being you.
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Post by riboflavinb2 on Jan 29, 2010 14:21:39 GMT -5
wow, even though i banged on endlessly about how external factors must have contributed to the final end product - that hay stack scene huh?!? i'm confused, why can't we have conversations about when we think the actors do a less than stellar performance?! we say it about rebecca enough. thore may be a straight man, and that may have been dissected to death BUT he is playing a *GAY* man and yesterday he wasn't convincing. sorry, i didn't want to say it so bluntly but i'm annoyed cos i feel like i'm indirectly being censored. and i know riboflavin2 that you didn't say what you did of your own volition but were spotlighted into giving your opinion but still.. it came off as a little (i'm just gonna say it, i looked for a milder word, sorry) but, it came off as rude. if you can't ever talk about the worse times, than how the eff are you ever meant to appreciate the brilliant scenes, like ktichen dancing yesterday or vlog today?!!? also you aren't obligated to read every single post on here. and this place can be so strenuously rule abiding it makes natural flowing conversation hard and expressing concerns with the show a minefield. and apologies about flippa flippityflipflop and anyone else i may have inadvertently offended. my brain is evidently too small to contain so much information You didn't find him convincing. Okay. That's fair! But what I am sick to death hearing is "because he's straight." I equally don't like "he's doing such a great job...for a straight guy." It's condescending to Thore. It's like saying "NPH does such a great job in HIMYM...for a gay guy" Can't way just say, "I didn't feel this scene" for the scene? I get you didn't feel it and I RESPECT that! I just don't like that it's about the actor personally. Talk about his talent all you want. I'm there with you... because sometimes, yes Thore didn't act a scene the way I would have wanted (for whatever reason) like I didn't particularly like him in the post Lydia wedding with the tissue box. Over done. But that wasn't about him being gay or straight... it was "that scene wasn't in his range as an actor" And maybe this hay scene wasn't in his range either but I don't think that's because the man is straight. Sorry if it came off rude. It's not meant to. And I'm not putting a black bar over your words. I'm just saying I'm tired... of the "he's straight" comments. Would you like it if someone said that about you.... "he's okay...for a gay guy?" I'd like to think we're at the point where it doesn't matter one way or the other. I get WHY we're not there... because it's hard to draw lines where an actor ends and his character starts.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jan 29, 2010 14:26:52 GMT -5
Moderator Post 2There are two things in this quote I am going to respond directly to. 1) It helps if you mention that this is your opinion of what you saw. As I mentioned yesterday. It's highly subjective to each individual watching. It is not a universal fact. You got that impression of the scene and in your opinion Thore wasn't convincing. That is of course your perfect right to have that opinion and to express it. For me personally, I saw nothing whatsoever that made me think Thore was at all uncomfortable or uninterested or unconvincing in that scene. (see what I did here? ) 2) Please do not do this. Do NOT. This is the last time I'm going to say this. If anyone has a problem with the percieved tone of someone's post, you are welcome to private message a moderator or PM that poster. On the other side of the coin...if you feel you are being insulted by another poster, you can PM a moderator.
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 14:36:30 GMT -5
Sylstyle:
Oh, I am glad to hear that Sarkozy's nefarious plot won't succeed. I like knowing France is there with its good healthcare system, its love of family and food, its love of art and people. This is a romanticized version of France, I know, but I think deserved.
(Most of our greatest American writers found refuge in France. My favorite writer and thinker -- perhaps the greatest of the century, James Baldwin, found his home there, as did Richard Wright, Josephine Baker, Gertrude Stein and others.)
BTW: I could complement other European countries, too, but as I write to my French friend, I will concentrate on France.
Anyway, your post cheered me.
With love,
Kes
P.S. I still think the writers are poking fun at Americans through Robert. It is so delicious. "Call me Rob." Ah! "Business comes first." "Food is overrated." (That last quote isn't exactly American, but could be said by the new 24/7 on-the-go American business type.)
I love the way he always introduces American expressions.
It's a great satire. ;D
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sylstyle
Senior Member
merci Flo
Posts: 6,299
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Post by sylstyle on Jan 29, 2010 14:45:15 GMT -5
Sylstyle: Oh, I am glad to hear that Sarkozy's nefarious plot won't succeed. I like knowing France is there with its good healthcare system, its love of family and food, its love of art and people. This is a romanticized version of France, I know, but I think deserved. Anyway, your post cheered me. With love, Kes P.S. I still think the writers are poking fun at Americans through Robert. It is so delicious. "Call me Rob." Ah! "Business comes first." "Food is overrated." (That last quote isn't exactly American, but could be said by the new 24/7 on-the-go American business type.) I love the way he always introduces American expressions. It's a great satire. ;D And still we are on the (almost) lowest rank of countries where inhabitants are unhappy in their country I don't get that As for german speaking English at the time I was in Berlin that was very frequent. Decades before French was "in". It's crazy the number of German words that come from French Sylvain
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 14:52:12 GMT -5
Sylstyle,
Perhaps French people are fighters with high expectations -- they don't need the mindless nationalism that we need in America.
Also, to get back to Ollian, perhaps, we are heading into Olli's issues. Of course, he would rate himself as very happy with Christian, but he wants more.
Johnny put it so well in his reponse (as he does so often -- I adore his posts; he's sharp). Olli has BIG DREAMS and Christian cannot even fathom why anyone would want such dreams. Also, Christian's father had big dreams, and that may have made Christian suspicious of such dreams, too.
Yet there is something lovely in Olli's dreams, too. I don't understand them either -- except they seem to stem from his own insecurity. (I wrote about this yesterday. There is much to explore from Olli's childhood. Why are he and Olivia so damned insecure? Why does he need to have Rob's acceptance?)
But he is a dreamer.
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sylstyle
Senior Member
merci Flo
Posts: 6,299
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Post by sylstyle on Jan 29, 2010 15:01:01 GMT -5
Sylstyle, Perhaps French people are fighters with high expectations -- they don't need the mindless nationalism that we need in America. Also, to get back to Ollian, perhaps, we are heading into Olli's issues. Of course, he would rate himself as very happy with Christian, but he wants more. Johnny put it so well in his reponse. Olli has BIG DREAMS and Christian cannot even fathom why anyone would want such dreams. Also, Christian's father had big dreams, and that may have made Christian suspicious of such dreams, too. Yet there is something lovely in Olli's dreams, too. I don't understand them either -- except they seem to stem from his own insecurity. (I wrote about this yesterday. There is much to explore from Olli's childhood. Why are he and Olivia so damned insecure? Why does he need to have Rob's acceptance?) But he is a dreamer. I think Olli having failed in school is happy to be successful and is looking for recognition from others. Christian doesn't need it he is more down to earth. And Olli as being rejected by his familiy + Tom I think he has a huge lack of self-confidence that's why he is more impressionable and needs others' agreement Sylvain
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Jan 29, 2010 17:30:18 GMT -5
A last word to Flippa and Riboflavin:
Thanks for reminding me of what a wonderful person and actor Thore is.
I think I needed to hear from the two of you today.
I feel very grateful -- and relieved, too.
Much love,
Kes
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Post by Flippityfloppityflip on Jan 29, 2010 22:59:53 GMT -5
Hi Everybody! Flippityfloppityflip (alias Flippity on the No Limits fiction site, but definitely not the great Flippa who makes great Youtube videos) here again. If you are reading this Flippa, I'm sorry that you were upset about people thinking my comments were coming from you. Didn't mean for you to get, metaphorically speaking, nearly tarred and feathered instead of me! And before anybody gets all het up again, I'm just joking!
I'm all for lively debate and airing of different opinions and standpoints. That's why I like this board so much and even though I may not be a prolific poster, I am an avid reader of most of the threads. Like most people I am always pleased when people agree with rather than disagree with my comments. However, at the end of the day if I can't be prepared to accept others alternate beliefs or viewpoints or be prepared to be challenged about my viewpoints or stance on an issue I shouldn't post anything here. Also as someone may have said earlier, isn't the point of us analysing things to the 'nth degree is that lots of us are totally addicted to and obsessed with Ollian and isn't this the site to share, discuss and disect with fellow devotees, all things related to Christian/Thore and Olli/Jo?
So many thanks to each and every person that has contributed to making this board so indispensable to me. Let's keep commenting about all sorts of Ollian stuff, whether it's a minority or majority viewpoint or a lukewarm response or a passionately held opinion that is expressed. It's all good isn't it?
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