md1347
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Post by md1347 on Sept 15, 2010 17:16:11 GMT -5
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2010 18:18:57 GMT -5
The attention that Luke and Reid are getting, whether negative or positive, is about the storyline, which IMHO, is a good thing. While Luke and Noah were groundbreaking, it seems that in the mind of many involved with the show, they never moved beyond that. A lot of the talk surrounding Luke and Reid is about the storyline itself, and not the sexual orientation of the characters (aside from the talk about the two of them not having sex). But, without Luke and Noah, the show wouldn't have been open to creating a character like Reid, who was about more than just his sexual orientation.
I would have worded this a little differently, but at it's core it's the truth. People watch soaps because of the relationships, and how the characters handle their relationships.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 20:37:04 GMT -5
The attention that Luke and Reid are getting, whether negative or positive, is about the storyline, which IMHO, is a good thing. While Luke and Noah were groundbreaking, it seems that in the mind of many involved with the show, they never moved beyond that. A lot of the talk surrounding Luke and Reid is about the storyline itself, and not the sexual orientation of the characters (aside from the talk about the two of them not having sex). But, without Luke and Noah, the show wouldn't have been open to creating a character like Reid, who was about more than just his sexual orientation. Yeah, I don't know, I see it from the standpoint of the substance of the Reid character, which was somewhat developed for obvious reasons. The Reid/Luke relationship itself pretty much stalled very early as well. It kind of went nowhere beyond early flirtation, then there were I love yous and then Reid died. The evolution of the Reid character as fueled in part by the wakening relationship was mainly shown, but the evolution of Luke/Reid relationship per se, as the characters both related, connected, and felt, was nothing to write home about IMO, nothing fantastic or of course groundbreaking. Given what was shown, I saw why the characters felt they had to give it a shot under the circumstances, but what was subsequently shown didn’t tell me why they absolutely had to (or not) as individuals be and stay together in the future. Luke/Noah in substance has many issues, but the good and the bad within the relationship were shown even through the ridiculous plots over the years, and even if the relationship itself stalled notably due to the internal dynamic, making it not so certain they had to stay together, the groundbreaking part and the fact that the relationship in what it was, not what it could have been, can be picked apart positively and negatively still give the couple itself a tangible and meaningful legacy.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2010 21:06:34 GMT -5
But, that's the point, they didn't have to be groundbreaking, or stand for anything beyond the storyline itself. The same thing goes for Luke and Noah, since the shine of being groundbreaking wore off long ago.
I do think that one of the main reasons why the soap press is paying attention is because of how the character of Reid was developed, since no soap, not just ATWT, is taking the time to develop new characters like that anymore.
What I'm saying is that Luke and Reid were only groundbreaking in the respect that this was not the story of two gay men, this story, aside from not letting them have sex, was just a regular storyline. Many of the reporters who have interviewed Eric or written about the storyline, have commented on Reid's sexuality not defining him, which is the first time that we have seen that with the introduction of any gay character in daytime. That's the reason why the articles that have been written have been about the storyline, which is as it should be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 21:24:21 GMT -5
What is outstanding to me anyway is what the show always ends up doing with its groundbreaking stuff in the first place. This show has had a lot of firsts through the years, but then at some point just gives up on giving it justice, leaving things feeling unsatisfactory to me. It’s really quite a feat, I must say.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2010 21:35:27 GMT -5
What is outstanding to me anyway is what the show always ends up doing with its groundbreaking stuff in the first place. This show has had a lot of firsts through the years, but then at some point just gives up on giving it justice, leaving things feeling unsatisfactory to me. It’s really quite a feat, I must say. Yes it is. They had good ideas and some of the best actors in the business, but they just didn't know how to make what came across on the screen fit the stories that they wanted to tell. Interviews featuring Jon Hensley and Colleen Zenk appeared today, and both spoke briefly about liking the Reid scenes from last week, and Zenk said that they were so emotional, but it seems to me that both were basing their comments just on the scenes that aired Friday and last week, and in that case I can see why they liked them, since they aren't basing their feelings on the storyline as a whole. Making sure that the whole storyline fit is where ATWT always dropped the ball.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 16, 2010 8:10:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 9:52:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the article. This made me laugh for real though: LOL! Talk about fanwanking. I think we watched a different show; I sure would have liked to watch that one, much better than what we got. ATWT can only wish it'd gone that deep. Still, more media talk for the end, yay.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 16, 2010 10:10:30 GMT -5
With more praise for Van, Eric and Jake. Always a plus. Thanks for the article. This made me laugh for real though: LOL! Talk about fanwanking. I think we watched a different show; I sure would have liked to watch that one, much better than what we got. ATWT can only wish it'd gone that deep. Still, more media talk for the end, yay.
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md1347
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Post by md1347 on Sept 16, 2010 10:25:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the article. This made me laugh for real though: LOL! Talk about fanwanking. I think we watched a different show; I sure would have liked to watch that one, much better than what we got. ATWT can only wish it'd gone that deep. Still, more media talk for the end, yay. I hear you. If the show was that good, then why was it canceled? The truth being that virtually none of that happened. Luke didn't exist for anything other than to follow Reid around trying to fix him. That's not maturity. Only the last 3-4 weeks of the show did any type of relationship start and they only figured out they were in love on the day Reid died. Even thought I think the writer was tremendously wrong in her summary, she is a good writer.
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Post by anthonyl on Sept 16, 2010 10:52:51 GMT -5
Honestly, I think that was the show's intent for the storyline and you could tell that's where they were going with it. Some of that did appear on screen, but not nearly enough.
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Sept 16, 2010 14:01:18 GMT -5
I know I’m not an avid fan of the show anymore nor was I in particular an avid fan of either pairing. But it still astounds me the lengths some people will go to, to bolster the couple they are shipping.
Luke was suddenly a grown man with complicated feelings, emotional and sexual….
Seriously…..seriously….!!!!!
I know everyone has their own perspective and is entitled to their own opinions, but come on. This is a bit much. I will concede that Luke has changed over the years. But his feelings, both emotional and sexual haven’t grown let alone matured by any means. He came to a few realizations, which is to be expected of anyone over time. But when push comes to shove, Luke as a character is pretty much the same person he has always been. Which is rather sad, especially considering what he could have become.
And while there are those who want to take the “shine” off of Luke and Noah being groundbreaking because the Show was nothing in the end if not a bunch of cowards, that to me is nothing but “hating”, for no other reason that it detracts from the one dimensioness of Luke and Reid as a couple. Again this mostly can be laid at the vapid feet of the writers, directors and producers of this show.
Luke and Noah for all their faults, both as individuals and as a couple they are legion, were and are groundbreaking in the realm of the soap world. And to take from that or to dismiss it out right because it “might”, put a little more shine on Luke and Reid as a couple to me is just plain sad. And really does a disservice to the couple in that if they can’t stand on their own without having to tear down Luke and Noah as a couple, that to me speaks volumes as to the foundation of Luke and Reid in the first place.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 16, 2010 16:46:31 GMT -5
I'll try not to fan wank, but one of the best writers that this show has admitted on twitter that Luke came across as being more mature in his scenes with Reid than he did with Noah. She credited Van with this change, and said that he was responding to Eric's energy differently than he responded to Jake's. I think this is one of the reasons why so many people have said that Reid and Luke's relationship was more mature than Luke and Noah's.
And I won't call him out, but one of the actors's in this storyline gave an interview where he pretty much used this same description but did seem to imply that this is what would have happened if the show had continued, and not that this is what we have been seeing during the past few months.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 16, 2010 17:31:00 GMT -5
I'll try not to fan wank, but one of the best writers that this show has admitted on twitter that Luke came across as being more mature in his scenes with Reid than he did with Noah. She credited Van with this change, and said that he was responding to Eric's energy differently than he responded to Jake's. I think this is one of the reasons why so many people have said that Reid and Luke's relationship was more mature than Luke and Noah's. Yes, but Goutman & Passanante often say things that aren't shown at all or come off differently to some once onscreen than the intention. So the writers are going to sell what they think they're intending but that doesn't mean the reception is always accurate or good, even the best writers on the show, which for me, means very VERY little.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 16, 2010 18:06:57 GMT -5
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Post by Zathras on Sept 16, 2010 20:47:24 GMT -5
Hmm. I think I'll read this later .
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 17, 2010 11:05:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 8:30:57 GMT -5
I think I saw some kind of ATWT tribute on the EW website (yay actual mainstream coverage and recognition) and I was mostly surprised it was a picture of the gay supercouple which was featured. I don't have the link handy though, sorry.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 18, 2010 10:10:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 11:18:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah, that’s the one. Thanks for making up for my sucky memory skills.
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md1347
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Post by md1347 on Dec 10, 2010 10:17:12 GMT -5
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md1347
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Post by md1347 on May 5, 2011 13:34:32 GMT -5
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Post by wallywa617 on May 5, 2011 18:09:07 GMT -5
That webisode thing would be amazing! I really wish they would do it! it wouldn't be hard to get Van Hansis and Jake Silbermann back together since they are good friends in real life! Luke and Noah DESERVE a happy, better ending!!
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Post by Bonobochick on May 11, 2011 9:53:39 GMT -5
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Post by jjose712 on May 12, 2011 8:58:49 GMT -5
It's a shame that Eric wasn't nominated. I still think Van will be nominated if he had submited for the emmys, but he didn't so we'll never know
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