Nitty
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I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
Posts: 2,085
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Post by Nitty on Jul 24, 2009 22:18:04 GMT -5
So, what is Judith's look of annoyance about at 5.05? Olli was being sarcastic about Christian's apology to the random girl. I think he was backhandedly bringing up the fact that Christian has been apologizing a lot lately. Judith's annoyance toward Olli's comment and smile at the end, said it all...she doesn't like them to fight. Thanks for the subs!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 22:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks, Nitty! Sometimes my brain is slooooooooowwwwwww like molasses.
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sio127
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Post by sio127 on Jul 24, 2009 23:18:26 GMT -5
I agree that they definitely both stuffed their feelings away. They know that they love each other and don't want to break up, but they still both have so many things to say to each other, before they can fully be happy with their situations. I also hope that this is intentional from the writers and that they will eventually bring up the underlying issues...and that they will have a REAL TALK about them. Thanks for that, to me that is the crux of the issue, I love the little make up scenes as much as the next person ;D However I do feel an actual sit down TALK is what is needed, Olli is telling his pals how he feels but not the person he needs to tell, and CHristian is telling (or showing) his punch bag what he feels and not Olli!! Just sit down and talk guys!!!!
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Zam
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Post by Zam on Jul 24, 2009 23:22:59 GMT -5
Thanks, Nitty! Sometimes my brain is slooooooooowwwwwww like molasses. In a genre where problems and issues generally are repeated so many times it becomes nauseating, and where problems and issues are talked to death, I found the problems in this episode a little too easily resolved. True: we don't need to see Olli go off the deep end or act all shrill or stomp his feet and wave his arms or go on some shopping spree to buy more scarves just because Christian is ignoring all sensible advice and kissing their friends and killing himself. But: As others have said, it was too neatly wrapped up. It shouldn't have only taken one episode. Olli's expressive eyes projected so much today and yesterday and dating back to Chris' diagnosis. Chris' eyes today, and even some of his actions, showed that he really got Olli (although I don't think he really does, ultimately in this story). Olli could have played hard to get regarding his apology. Give Christian the silent treatment. Put him in the dog house. Make him REALLY think about what he's done and what he's doing. Kick his ass out of NoLimits for a couple weeks for stage-diving and acting a fool and being bad for business. (make it about the actions more than the kiss). And the free booze that was free-flowing? Make him pay for it. Olli is a business owner, he should act like one. Miriam should get in trouble for over-serving Christian and for allowing him to behave the way he did. Not fired. But she should be in trouble. (Her contrition was pretty damn good. "Can I still work here?" SPOT ON! Loved it!) If Olli did that, at least, it wouldn't require him to have a tantrum. Once Christian has had his time out for behaving like an idiotic teenage, let him come out of time out and have a REAL discussion about the problems, about his health, about RESPONSIBILITY. And once Christian had completed his time out, Olli can still play hard to get, and Christian can prove he is worthy of forgiveness. His actions can earn the apology. If the criticism is that it isn't fair of Olli to offer Christian conditional love, screw that!, Christian did it to himself. His own actions necessitate tough love. Audiences deserve more than short-hand. Especially with an issue such as this that can have such grave consequences. It's not just about Christian. It about him, and him and Olli, and NoLimits, and now their friends, and Judith who almost literally became his punching bag today. It was too neatly wrapped up. As someone once told me when providing Constructive Crit to a little play I wrote in college, "the ending was too much like a SitCom. It was too easy, and too neatly wrapped up." Olli's forgiveness today and Christian carrying down his boxing stuff and Judith's happy smile was a SitCom ending to this story. the characters aren't ultimately well-served by it.
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IvVi
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Post by IvVi on Jul 24, 2009 23:49:38 GMT -5
I found the gesture that Christian made - gave away his sporting gears so meaningful and sometimes this kind of thing talks by itself and much more than hours of conversation might do. Whether the make up after a kiss and the give away should been in one episode that's another issue.
but I didn't get the "cool" reference - Olli is cool and he isn't - about what was that? that Olli was cool about the kiss but Chris himself is not that cool about it? and he was mad at himself (that's the boxing again) for jeopardizing most important thing in his life - Olli's love? or ....? I'm really lost here
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Post by ivaniv on Jul 25, 2009 0:39:12 GMT -5
He meant Olli is just pretending to be cool with it.
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Post by husky14620 on Jul 25, 2009 0:51:10 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. I agree that they shouldn't break up, but I think Christian should have spent the night on the sofa... Olli shouldn't have forgiven the punching bag thing or the kiss, let alone the two at the same time, anywhere near that quickly. But I can see they needed to get them to a particular place for the vlog. It seems to me that the constant little spats are setting up an incompatibility that will eventually break them up permanently. And I definitely DON'T want to see that. But written well, a temporary separation, where Christian has to court Olli to regain Olli's trust, could be a very strong story line. And, it also could have been interesting if Olli had left and not come home that night, so Christian had to do a vlog alone, asking for help from "Olli's Ibiza friends" to "send" Olli home... making the case for Olli to forgive him. Then, when Olli comes home Monday morning, they have to talk about all the problems they've been having lately. And then, then they have great make up sex! Damn, I'm beginning to think like a soap writer... This addiction is definitely going too far. I love it... ;D
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Post by tihkon2 on Jul 25, 2009 3:07:55 GMT -5
and... Olli could have done these things, but he didn't. And I don't necessarily think it was so the writers or producers could time it with the v-log. Again, I'll put forth my differing opinion, and say that I am completely glad they didn't have Olli do any of the things in the sentences I quoted above. I'll say that, to me, those things sound like someone punishing someone, and in my opinion, Olli shouldn't punish his lover . Period. Olli did exactly what I would like to think I would do, and let Christian know his actions hurt Olli, and that he wouldn't stand for it. Yes, Olli is probably still not thrilled that C snogged Miriam, but he has talked with Christian and accepted his lover's apology and believes it to be true. That is all Olli needs to do in my opinion. Christian apologized sincerely. End of story for me. No vindictiveness or teaching Christian a lesson with punishment as if he was a badly trained puppy. That's my thoughts anyway! ;D
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Post by iyra92 on Jul 25, 2009 8:40:55 GMT -5
First of all thanks so much Nanna & Tihkon for today's video, and Ivan for your screencaps.
I agree that Olli's reaction should be shown more instead of quick wrap - maybe Chrolli scenes should sum up to 7-10 minutes. But, after feeling so nervous for long to watch today's episode I really glad that VL team did not break Chrolli up. If they did, it would really SHUT me OFF. ... I know they much too genius to create wonderful conflicts without breaking them up and their love still stand firmly.
VL team did a wonderful job showing to me that Christian stand his ground and say sorry and when Olli wasn't forgive him he wait patiently and again say sorry. When somebody you loves and loves you back does show that what's he did totally stupid and un-plan and he indeed feel sorry, of course I forgive him. So, I think today episode running nicely.
Just in case we forgot both Olli & Christian suffer a lot lately and Christian did take his space from Olli. So, I'm glad VL team put their misery to rest. (Just my hope - not spoiler, I hope one day Christian can do sports again though.)
And VL team did a wonderful choice to show us that despite everything Chrolli know they loves each other so much and I really glad they decided that Christian kiss with Miriam means nothing and he did feel sorry. Ahh... at least I still can keep Chrolli of VL as my nu.1 love story.
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Davian
Junior Member
Posts: 438
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Post by Davian on Jul 25, 2009 9:17:51 GMT -5
Bg26, Rhiannonhero, Nitty and Fanaticfan:
Thank you for your words.
Thank you Nanna and Tihkon!
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 25, 2009 13:50:55 GMT -5
I agree with you. It was wonderful to see Miriam stepping up (initially) to explain to Olli that the kiss meant absolutely nothing to her and Christian. I also loved how Christian told her that "he would handle it". He knew that he had to tell Olli, himself that the kiss meant nothing. I like that they open up and communicate with each other about their feelings about their relationship. Judith totally represents the Ollian/Chrolli viewing audience, when she just smiled, looking happy that they got over this very minor situation. She's true friend to them both. I LOL'ed when Christian told her to "shut up" after said it was Churchill who said "No Sports". Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it.
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Post by jj8899 on Jul 25, 2009 16:03:16 GMT -5
judith's been like their adopted kid and has been since christian told her to leave the breakfast table so him and olli could talk privately all those months ago... they do most of the nuturing for her, over her men dramas and general life problems and she really leans on them, esp christian... but when it comes down to it she'll look out for them as well, like with the various hospital trips, cooking and stuff and then the smile today after talking to christian... they're like a little family in that flatshare... and judith has been there from the beginning of christian/olli proper... it would feel a bit weird without her...
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Post by lolaruns on Jul 25, 2009 21:58:39 GMT -5
I did think that there were some similarities to the mini make-ups that Christian and Coco were doing before they broke up. However, I don't think that they are *intending* for there to be unresolved issues or lingering unease (aka they also will not show up in the storyline at any point because they are not intended) even if that would make sense in that situation. But basically, I don't think that that is what they are feeling/supposed to be feeling and hence, since the writers are their masters in the end, it is not what they are feeling. (of course the future could prove me wrong, but that's the point, I see it not as the intention of the writers, hence I don't tihnk that it will ever show up in the future scenes; again I point at the pair of Leo and Sarah who had much more extreme fights and problems to the extent that it was crazy that there was not supposed any longterm flaw to their makeups. But it still was what happened. No resentment at all.)
As for Olli being too cool. I actually got the gist from it that Christian wished Olli would be less perfect so Christian would have a reason to be mad at him/lash out at him (because IMO he wants to lash out period, but he knows that it's not justified;).
For the record, I mostly thought that the entire episode felt like a boring waste of time. Yes the moment of Christian turning in his stuff was important, but it all played out so low key that IMO it mostly got lost in the shuffle. I acutally think that Ollian mini fights come off as even more weird in context of the episodes. Particularly because of the apparent lack of continuity between them. It's starting to feel more like a case of "What, again?". It's funny because VL currently actually has three different stable couples, that all have mini fights that don't lead to breakups, but at least there is an overarching theme to Gregor&Luise's and Matthias&Nathalie's fight (of course, both of them are also still more in the "still getting to know you" phase). I kinda hope that Christian's search for a new career will be the thing that eventually provides their overarching arc, but even as a beat in that story, imo, it all played out as rather lackluster.
I too have no desire to see Olli "punish" Christian, but to me the whole thing played out as rather boring. The scenes about the kiss and the ones about the boxing felt almost unconnected. And Christian's boxing scene didn't have nearly the emotional quality it could have had. It wasn't a bad episode, but it was kinda boring. Yes the chemistry is there, yes the hug is sweet, but it just feels something we have seen so often already.
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Post by husky14620 on Jul 25, 2009 22:04:42 GMT -5
Olli could have done these things, but he didn't. And I don't necessarily think it was so the writers or producers could time it with the v-log. Again, I'll put forth my differing opinion, and say that I am completely glad they didn't have Olli do any of the things in the sentences I quoted above. I'll say that, to me, those things sound like someone punishing someone, and in my opinion, Olli shouldn't punish his lover . Period. Olli did exactly what I would like to think I would do, and let Christian know his actions hurt Olli, and that he wouldn't stand for it. Yes, Olli is probably still not thrilled that C snogged Miriam, but he has talked with Christian and accepted his lover's apology and believes it to be true. That is all Olli needs to do in my opinion. Christian apologized sincerely. End of story for me. No vindictiveness or teaching Christian a lesson with punishment as if he was a badly trained puppy. That's my thoughts anyway! ;D It doesn't need to be to punish Christian, so much as it could be written to show that Olli was hurt and having a hard time accepting it. And Christian could have volunteered for the sofa after getting a cold shoulder (like he gave Olli the night before the fight) in bed. I do appreciate where you are coming from though, as either course of action could drive them apart. But the look that Christian gave Miriam while she confessed made me feel the first apology was more for getting caught than for doing it. Only the second one seemed heartfelt. But then, with what he said to Judith when she caught him punching the bag, and the way he acted when Olli caught him 'cheating' again after Judith left, he really didn't care if he hurt Olli. And it would give them more screen time if they had dragged this kissing story out a little longer. (Ulterior motive appears! ;D )
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Post by husky14620 on Jul 25, 2009 22:11:28 GMT -5
As for Olli being too cool. I actually got the gist from it that Christian wished Olli would be less perfect so Christian would have a reason to be mad at him/lash out at him (because IMO he wants to lash out period, but he knows that it's not justified;). This I can certainly agree with. Christian's life is spiraling out of control, and he wants to find someone to blame, and to strike out against. The problem is that he is striking out (lashing out) at the people who care the most about him. If he was giving crap to total strangers, or to the doctors, but no, it's to Olli, Gregor, Miriam, Stella, even Judith in the bedroom with the punching bag.
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lizg12
Junior Member
Posts: 522
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Post by lizg12 on Jul 25, 2009 22:42:19 GMT -5
Christian's life is spiraling out of control, and he wants to find someone to blame, and to strike out against. The problem is that he is striking out (lashing out) at the people who care the most about him. yeah, that sounds familiar for someone with a life-threatening disease who hasn't figured out how to live with it yet. DH still gets like that and he's been in chemo treatments almost constantly for more than 3yrs now. I hear the same thing from other caregivers too. Christian's behavior is annoying as all hell, but it's not wrong for the situation either. (although I'm not sure you're saying it is)
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Post by mona on Jul 25, 2009 22:48:28 GMT -5
I think the difference is that with Coco and Christian it was supposed to feel like Christian fell out of love or that he wouldn't do much to "rescue" this relationship (because they always had an awkward feeling when they were making up)With Olli, it's the opposite. They have problems but the love is still there.That's why I still think his sport decision was a big deal and I was feeling it as that and that it should be the end of this "fighting arc" permanently. So even if they intend to do a break up I don't believe it's gonna be "forever" because they made it pretty clear in the last mini fights that they love each other very much. They could've made typical issues out of this if it would be different like more than just a kiss etc. (I didn't even see the last fights as mini fights because the problem was in the air the whole time and Olli and Christian knew that. But Olli didn't go away just because of that) I also didn't get Christian the entire time but the kiss/boxing/health thing was really mixed up. But in the end he made his decision for Olli. I mean, even if the would've done a break up now, it wouldn't have been because they aren't in love anymore. That's kinda the sad thing for me when I see scenes like Olli saying "Without me" and Christian being angry about himself (like "Love isn't always easy/enough)
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Post by ivaniv on Jul 26, 2009 2:49:31 GMT -5
I don't think that Christian wanted to fight and Olli made that impossible. I think Christian thought he deserved some shouting, but when Olli did not do it he thought that maybe he did not care/love him enough to do that or that he did not do it because he was ill and Olli did not want to upset him. As for these small fights, that they happen is not a sign of anything, no two people are that compatible that they never fight. An important thing is if there's love and they want to resolve the problems, or if they fight just because they became allergic to each other and it feels good to hurt the other one.
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Post by mona on Jul 26, 2009 8:24:24 GMT -5
I thought the comment meant that Christian was feeling like Olli is too good for him because Judith said Olli is the perfect boyfriend but Christian thinks he isn't after he kissed Miriam. (Because for the "he doesn't love me enough to fight with me, Christian saw how hurt Olli was).
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jul 26, 2009 14:15:40 GMT -5
For the record, I mostly thought that the entire episode felt like a boring waste of time. Yes the moment of Christian turning in his stuff was important, but it all played out so low key that IMO it mostly got lost in the shuffle. I acutally think that Ollian mini fights come off as even more weird in context of the episodes. Particularly because of the apparent lack of continuity between them. It's starting to feel more like a case of "What, again?". It's funny because VL currently actually has three different stable couples, that all have mini fights that don't lead to breakups, but at least there is an overarching theme to Gregor&Luise's and Matthias&Nathalie's fight (of course, both of them are also still more in the "still getting to know you" phase). I kinda hope that Christian's search for a new career will be the thing that eventually provides their overarching arc, but even as a beat in that story, imo, it all played out as rather lackluster. Not only was it a bit boring, I also found it a wee bit patronising - let's keep all the Ollian fans happy with a fight & kiss & make-up scene - we'll even throw in a shot af a happy smiley Judith at the end just to make sure they get the message I think the whole episode was confusing - & judging by the number of "mixed message" comments there have been it would seem I'm not the only one. As for Olli "forgiving" Christian far too quickly - well, yes, I think he did - however I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it is thrown back in Christian's face during a fight in the future One thing I have been disappointed with during this storyline is the lack of screentime given to Christian about how he " feels". Ultimately I would've liked to have seen this scene with Olli, but I'd have been satisfied to have seen it with Judith too. There have been plenty of scenes showing a "broody" or "angry" Christian - but little dialogue from him. For me too much emphasis was placed on Olli " telling" Christian what he should be doing. I'd rather have seen him " asking" Christian how he felt. One thing that struck me as rather odd in this episode was the line of Dialogue where Olli said "not kissing one of my employees" Miriam is a long time friend/aquaintance to them both - in truth has a longer association with Christian & NoLimits than Olli has. Maybe it was meant to be derogatory towards Christian - i.e - it was bad enough that you kissed someone else but that you had to do it with someone beneath my status........but I'm not sure - like a lot of things with this episode, it was all just a bit confusing.
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Post by mona on Jul 26, 2009 15:08:34 GMT -5
Isn't it normal that it's even more awkward for Olli because Miriam is working for and with him? I think Olli didn't have a very good start when it comes to taking him serious as the boss even though we see him working very hard. If he has to feel jealous of someone who's working for him it's harder to get the formal way to work with each other. + He will remember Christians "escapade" longer. I felt a bit sorry for him because as the boss he had to be "under control" and don't fire Miriam just because his boyfriend kissed her.
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IvVi
New Member
Posts: 137
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Post by IvVi on Jul 26, 2009 15:42:42 GMT -5
It seems that writers really might think that lets give fans something so they won't loose interest as long as we don't have anything big for the boys and so they throw in some fight again and then boys can kiss it away quickly. But with so many fights and quick kiss&make up it makes me wonder that in the end it doesn't matter how much you love the other person, constant arguments show that something isn't working correctly in the relationship. Yes you kiss and everything seems OK but next day you start another one about something else. Fights started before Christian was diagnosed so it's not only because they both stressed out about the illness. As much as I hope that fights are over and they can concentrate on Christian's future for example I do think that really serious talk is more than necessary.
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Post by sheepiefarm on Jul 26, 2009 15:48:18 GMT -5
Isn't it normal that it's even more awkward for Olli because Miriam is working for and with him? I think Olli didn't have a very good start when it comes to taking him serious as the boss even though we see him working very hard. If he has to feel jealous of someone who's working for him it's harder to get the formal way to work with each other. + He will remember Christians "escapade" longer. I felt a bit sorry for him because as the boss he had to be "under control" and don't fire Miriam just because his boyfriend kissed her. Don't get me wrong - I'm not disputing the awkwardness of the situation - even more so awkward as technically Miriam was the last girl that Christian took out on a date. I'm just confused as to the significance of the term "employee". Why did he not just say kissing Miriam? The fact that he didn't fire her would suggest that he thinks her role in the kiss wasn't really worth that much. It's like if you caught you're boyfriend kissing your best friend and you said it as such, it would be because the emphasis was on the fact that it was your best-friend..........
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Post by mona on Jul 26, 2009 17:08:40 GMT -5
I think Olli would never fire someone over something private like that. That would be my problem. But I'm sure he has some "dislike" feelings against the person his boyfriend is kissing. It doesn't matter if Miriam kissed Christian back or not. Just the fact that Christian decided to kiss her would be enough for me. Normally I could see Olli "bitching" about it as well but as the boss he has to be professional. It's unfair in this situation because Olli can't live out any jealousy on his "employee". (What he could've done is making an excuse because of the drinks and firing her because of that but that's not Olli. That doesn't make it better for him because he has to go through it anyway)
I don't give much about the fighting. They didn't have many fights for 1 1/2 years (in a soap!) which - nothing against Christian - is a huge thing because Christian likes to overreact. Now they had two months with more fighting but that doesn't give me the impression something is really wrong with their whole relationship. The last fights were more angst fights about an outside situation than "something is seriously wrong between them". (I would be very surprised if Christian for example would break up because they fight too much because he just realized in this episode that Olli is too good basically and easy-going). I mean, before that some people were saying Ollian don't have enough of that and are too "fluffy". They're still the happiest/healthiest couple on VL.
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Post by mona on Jul 27, 2009 4:03:57 GMT -5
I just watched the episode again where Christian get's to know that Coco kissed someone else and I can't stop laughing that Coco is saying the exact same things and Christian is mad like "Drunk? Ahhh". Guess now, he knows that can be the truth. Besides the fact that his kiss is innocent and Cocos wasn't it's like the exact same situation/dialogue. Coco also lost her dream job and it's kinda a + for her that she had a fight with Christian before (= he was acting like an idiot) I don't think Ollians fights are similar but the kiss thing is funny.
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