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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 15:11:56 GMT -5
Yep, it was as I suspected. There were a lot of things I'd kind of wanted Olli to say, but I had a feeling (non-spoiler-based feeling) that I wouldn't see him say any of those things, and I was right. Still, happy that they made-up.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jul 24, 2009 15:27:06 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it.
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I ♥ Blaine
Full Member
....new kid. You'll fit right in!
Posts: 1,200
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Post by I ♥ Blaine on Jul 24, 2009 15:33:05 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. Aaaaamen!!
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Post by ivaniv on Jul 24, 2009 15:41:27 GMT -5
Some people can hold a grudge forever and it just poisons everything. It's much better the way Olli did it, he was very disappointed, but he did not want to break up with him or keep punishing him for that.
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Jul 24, 2009 15:46:24 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. Aaaaamen!! I second that Aaamen!!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 15:51:48 GMT -5
I third it
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Post by jsg03jd on Jul 24, 2009 15:54:27 GMT -5
Isn't it summer in Germany? What is up with the technicolor scarf/neckerchief with Olli?
Wow. Olli is uber cool about the kiss. I somehow thought that that famous Chrissie line, "A kiss is never only a kiss" would somehow be brought up (unless my pitiful German just completely missed that point if, in fact, it was raised in today's episode). Guess not...
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dutchy
Junior Member
Posts: 772
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Post by dutchy on Jul 24, 2009 15:58:02 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. I agree with all my heart, Tihkon!! I really do (as contradictory as that may sound today : ! For me, there’s just something missing lately, I’m sad to say, and I’m trying to figure out what it is (besides those good, old-fashioned talks that I’d love to see more often again). I do still loooooove this couple/story, for the exact same reasons as I always have (heck, it’s the only story that I’m “addicted“ to). (Don’t mind me today, I’m probably suffering from the “end of my holiday” blues! )
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Post by miracle1681 on Jul 24, 2009 16:05:40 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. ICAM. I don't need long term angst. This short term stuff is enough for me
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 16:08:00 GMT -5
Yep, it was as I suspected. There were a lot of things I'd kind of wanted Olli to say, but I had a feeling (non-spoiler-based feeling) that I wouldn't see him say any of those things, and I was right. Still, happy that they made-up. You know, I should perhaps wait until I see the English subs before deciding this, don't you think? I mean, for all I know, Olli did say at least one of the things I'd have liked him to say. Silly me.
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Davian
Junior Member
Posts: 438
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Post by Davian on Jul 24, 2009 16:10:42 GMT -5
Thikon, I don't want their story to be all about drama and angst. I just think that things are sometimes treated too lightly. I would prefer one big drama to these little turmoils. Fight-peace-kiss, fight-peace-kiss, sometimes twice a episode just doesn't feel true to me. And yes, I might be a dramatic person. I have my heart connected to my mouth and I easily make a scene when I'm hurt/deceived. I cry, I shout, make a scene and then... I take a deep breath, I apologize and accept apology (and hopefully have good make up sex). I guess I'm not making much sense. I tried to write something to explain it better but my english is not very fluent today. Plus, I have a huge hangover. ETA: And I second Dutchy; as contradictory as it may seem, I agree with you.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Jul 24, 2009 16:22:43 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. WOW Tikhon2 I need to shake your hand cause I agree with you 1000% I seriously don't get why the thought of two people, who love each other and are handling life's lil hurdles and sticking by each other no matter what, is such a turn off for some people. It's a fact out of straight, lesbian, and gay relationships, gay relationships are by far the most under-represented and short-term of all three; and I'm talking about REAL couples. Now I see why reading some of the comments here. Alot of people seem to think life should be a drama parade 24/7 in order to be worthwhile. It's truly sad.
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Davian
Junior Member
Posts: 438
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Post by Davian on Jul 24, 2009 16:29:32 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree with all you angst-mavens. A little is fine for me, but Crying and Weeping and Screaming and Misery are something I will gladly do without. This storyline has been remarkably "long-term misery"-free for over a year and a half, and that's why I like it. They have problems and then they get over those problems together. And as far as Olli doing some big dramatic break-up or taking a break from Christian at this time, for me personally, it would ruin his character. He would forever be the man who dumped his boyfriend after the boyfriend lost his job, his future career dream, and most importantly, his health. And I would have little good to say about him. So I am fine that Olli lets Christian know that he's an idiot, and then accepts his apology, which is sincere. I find it distasteful when someone vindictively "punishes" their significant other. A significant other isn't a child, and if someone feels the need to "punish" them then , then I find that f*cked up. So, once again, I'm quite happy with the way Verbotene Liebe handles the drama and doesn't let angst linger on for months at a time. If I want to see misery 24/7 I'll watch the news. This episode was completely to my liking. IMHO there was utterly no need to have "Miriam Kiss" angst for days or weeks, and I'm glad the writers didn't do it. WOW Tikhon2 I need to shake your hand cause I agree with you 1000% I seriously don't get why the thought of two people, who love each other and are handling life's lil hurdles and sticking by each other no matter what, is such a turn off for some people. It's a fact out of straight, lesbian, and gay relationships, gay relationships are by far the most under-represented and short-term of all three; and I'm talking about REAL couples. Now I see why reading some of the comments here. Alot of people seem to think life should be drama parade 24/7 in order to be worthwhile. It's truly sad. Scarpien: I don't include myself in that group of "sad" people who want life to drama 24/7 and I hope you weren't talking directly to me. I think that a little bit of drama may be more interesting from an acting POV than two guys just being cute all the time.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jul 24, 2009 16:39:32 GMT -5
Let's remember to not deride each other personally on the boards. We can all find ways of getting our opinions across without directly being combative with each other. Thanks!
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Davian
Junior Member
Posts: 438
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Post by Davian on Jul 24, 2009 16:45:22 GMT -5
Sorry Tihkon. I'm resting my case and I don't want to discuss this anymore. I don't wanna make a big drama about it.
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scarpien
Junior Member
Olli & Christian Forever
Posts: 491
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Post by scarpien on Jul 24, 2009 16:55:05 GMT -5
Scarpien: I don't include myself in that group of "sad" people who want life to drama 24/7 and I hope you weren't talking directly to me. I think that a little bit of drama may be more interesting from an acting POV than two guys just being cute all the time. Davian, it was a general remark, piggy-backing off of Tikhon2's response. I am/was a big fan of Six Feet Under and I remember Alan Ball saying once he was discussing the way forward with the gay characters [Keith & David] of the show, and the writers suggested they should break them up again. They'd already gone that route the previous season so he told them "no, that's TOO easy", and it certainly doesn't show originality on the part of the writers. He instead suggested they stay together and deal with life's little problems. I guess his words really made an impression on me. And when you think about it, that's what real people deal with on a daily basis: life! Granted, there are a few couples who go through that "break up, make up" merry go round, and actually seem to get off in some weird way off of it. However, I truly feel if that's all the writers can come up with they really aren't needed. Hell, I'm no writer and I can come up with more engaging story-lines than just breaking up every couple who run into troubles in their relationships. It's too much of a cop out if you ask me. In addition, what message is it sending to say younger viewers? That it's ok to bail whenever things get rough? Gay relationships are already like an endangered species. We need to see more healthy, positive depictions of gay characters. I feel if a show is going to go the "gay" route, it's the least they can do. I'll get off my soap box now!!
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bg26
New Member
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Post by bg26 on Jul 24, 2009 17:26:07 GMT -5
It's so interesting to read both viewpoints.
I myself am a bit unsure as well. I don't want them to break up and have agonizing weeks of discussions or anger and defiance towards eachother. It would take so much of their chemistry away, maybe too much for them to be ever perceived again as Ollian, the real and only perfect couple in VL!
On the other hand, lately I've seen too much of the fighting-making up-kissing scenes in one single episode. In this one even twice! The more it happens, the more it looks less credible or realistic and also repetitive. They have a fight, yell at eachother, and all of a sudden, a few minutes later it's already over and done with. I find that a bit awkward.
So I guess, what I'm saying is: don't break them up as a couple, but let them give eachother some space though. Let them be a few days or a few weeks on their own, so they can make up their minds and put their feelings in order. I'm absolutely convinced that they'll realize then even more than ever that they need eachother and love eachother deeply. And I believe that would be a more realistic and emotional way of showing their relationship can survive struggles.
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 17:31:12 GMT -5
scarpien, I think that what you have to say above is very interesting, though I wish you'd said that the first time instead of implying that those who wanted more drama from their soap opera (*chuckles*) were somehow sad individuals who didn't understand healthy relationship dynamics. And while that may or may not have been your intent, it did kinda come across that way. I'm assuming you didn't mean it that way. As for me, and my opinion of what we saw on the show, I'm somewhere in between -- I could do with more drama or not. Either way, really is okay by me. Though, I think that what is lacking for me is not drama but closure, but I can only hope that is on purpose, otherwise it is simply lazy writing. In real life, things don't go so smoothly in these situations, or if they do, it is only because one partner was bottling up their feelings and it comes out in some other way. In real life, when something like this happens, there is a fight, words are exchanged, people kiss and make up. There was barely anything addressed from what I could tell (still haven't seen the English subs, so I reserve the right to do a complete reversal when I do!) and that is a bit of a disappointment for me. I did think that Olli's eyes told another story during the make-up hug re: the kiss, and he seemed less than completely engaged in their make-up when Christian got rid of the boxing stuff. Though, in the vlog (do we count it as canon?) he seemed to have moved on to dealing with his hurt emotions by joking about it. I'm not advocating a break-up, that's not something I'd (necessarily) enjoy seeing, but when feelings are hurt, it is important that they are addressed and not just stuffed. Again, though, I've not seen it subtitled yet, and perhaps my opinion will change when I know what Olli actually said.
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Nitty
Full Member
I will eat your brains and gain your knowledge...
Posts: 2,085
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Post by Nitty on Jul 24, 2009 17:44:52 GMT -5
I agree that they definitely both stuffed their feelings away. They know that they love each other and don't want to break up, but they still both have so many things to say to each other, before they can fully be happy with their situations. I also hope that this is intentional from the writers and that they will eventually bring up the underlying issues...and that they will have a REAL TALK about them.
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dutchy
Junior Member
Posts: 772
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Post by dutchy on Jul 24, 2009 17:49:38 GMT -5
It's so interesting to read both viewpoints. I myself am a bit unsure as well. I don't want them to break up and have agonizing weeks of discussions or anger and defiance towards eachother. It would take so much of their chemistry away, maybe too much for them to be ever perceived again as Ollian, the real and only perfect couple in VL! On the other hand, lately I've seen too much of the fighting-making up-kissing scenes in one single episode. In this one even twice! The more it happens, the more it looks less credible or realistic and also repetitive. They have a fight, yell at eachother, and all of a sudden, a few minutes later it's already over and done with. I find that a bit awkward. So I guess, what I'm saying is: don't break them up as a couple, but let them give eachother some space though. Let them be a few days or a few weeks on their own, so they can make up their minds and put their feelings in order. I'm absolutely convinced that they'll realize then even more than ever that they need eachother and love eachother deeply. And I believe that would be a more realistic and emotional way of showing their relationship can survive struggles. Thanks for saying what I tried to say but didn’t quite get across the way I meant it. I’m very much in limbo about where I want the story to go from here as well. As I just said to another member, I’ll write a note to remind myself not to post on the board on an off-day! And thank you, Rhi… especially for that closure comment. I’ve been wondering what’s been missing for me lately and this is something to think about. (And now I’m off to enjoy the last night of my hols)
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Post by fanaticfan on Jul 24, 2009 17:52:15 GMT -5
Maybe I was a bit vague in the term "take a break from Christian." The best way to describe it would be what Christian did recently, he went camping at a childhood spot to think things into perspective. Of course, I'm not saying Olli should go disappear into the woods but maybe something that he likes to do to cool down when he's stressed. I felt that Olli took the news of Christian and Miriam kissing rather quickly while working. In the span of time it takes to leave the bar to fetch drinks, Olli had already forgiven Christian. He went through anger, disappointment, sadness, doubt, and arrived at forgiveness and understanding in a matter of minutes. When I typed the word angst, I wasn't hoping for any long term misery. I certainly wasn't hoping for any break-up then make-up situations. I was hoping for more than just a understanding response from Olli. Lately, their problems have been solved with sorry's and hugs. It's nice but surely, it's a bit unrealistic. There's a lot of things that should've been addressed but was shoved aside for the sake of forgiveness. And I just felt that it reached a point today where it was convenient. . I should stop my rambling. I still have yet to see the subtitles and the vlog. . Thanks for addressing that rhiannonhero. I didn't know how to respond to that as I felt it was a bit err harsh.
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Post by tihkon2 on Jul 24, 2009 18:05:24 GMT -5
Alright people, let's stick to discussing the events in the episode and the storyline please.
Anyhow.... Here is the latest clip with English Subtitles. Enjoy!
Many thanks to Nanna! Much appreciated!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 19:31:55 GMT -5
Thanks Nanna and tihkon!
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Post by rhiannonhero on Jul 24, 2009 20:22:57 GMT -5
So, what is Judith's look of annoyance about at 5.05? Am I missing something in the translation? Olli says, "Now that's something new." (And, again, I'm having a hard time with this one for some reason, but is he referring to Christian apologizing to the lady he bumped into, i.e. sarcasm, or is he talking about what Christian is carrying?) And then Judith looks like, "God, what is your problem." I feel like a dolt that I'm not getting this interaction.
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Post by brownsugar on Jul 24, 2009 21:17:08 GMT -5
I just watched the clip , and I'm in the camp of those who loved how it played out. I loved the fact there wasn't too much drama as in shouting, crying and stamping of feet. I loved the way we knew how each character was feeling through their facial expressions, body language, tone of voice and the eyes of Olli and Christian told the story. I think that Jo and Thore are so brilliant at playing these characters that over the top dramatics wasn't needed. I GOT how Olli felt and how GUILTY Christian was feeling because Jo and Thore was able to convey that beautifully. And again, which I've often stated, I think that this is what makes this storyline so unique...it doesn't play out the way we are so use to TV relationships playing out. We just expected Olli and Christian to have a huge shouting match and then one of them to stamp off and such, maybe spliting up for a while...but instead, the less traveled road was taken, and I loved it.
You know...i'm really pleased that the writers chose to go the uncommon route of not breaking Ollian up because they are having some difficulty in their relationship. And when you look at it, the difficulty is not because of some outside stimuli, such as a person who either Olli or Christian choose to commit adultery with. I'm also pleased that the writers didn't have Olli wanting to break the relationship up immediately because of a drunken kiss. Yes, you could see Olli was deeply hurt, but they both know how much they deeply love each other, and Olli is mature enough to know under what circumstances that kiss took place. He saw the results of it the following day...Christian with such a huge hang over he needed to rest most of the day. And down in NL all the hard booze that had been consumed and the place left in a mess was evidence enough. Olli was hurt but he can forgive this ONE mistake. And Christian made it clear...never again will it happen. Christian knows what he has and doesn't want to loose Olli. And the ultimate show of love was Christian giving his boxing gear over to Olli. And that i'm sure was extremely difficult for Christian to do.
Looking forward to what is to come next for Ollian.
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