How optimistic are you about the future of Ollian?

[lolaruns]

How optimistic are you about Ollian's prospects in the next 6 months within the show of VL. (remember Ollian the show as characters, not Jo and Thore in special projects)

[matan4il]

I'm not very optimistic because of the writers. I think they have not only messed up with Olli's Ibiza storyline, but I also got the impression that they may be sowing the seeds of discontent for when Olli's back.

...I'm not saying they can't surprise me, though, so I'm not very pessimistic either.

[lolaruns]

For me it's pretty similar. VL has been able to give pleasant surprises so far (though admittedly some not so pleasant ones too on occasion). But it just feels weird to feel that you have to count on/hope for a surprise rather than feel that something is probably or definitive.

[aussie54]

I'm a glass half-empty person, rather than half-full, so I'm not expecting anything good.

As Matan4il says, the writers completely stuffed up the Olli Ibiza storyline, so goodness knows what they'll come up with next.

[matan4il]

Jan 3, 2009 14:31:36 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

For me it's pretty similar. VL has been able to give pleasant surprises so far (though admittedly some not so pleasant ones too on occasion). But it just feels weird to feel that you have to count on/hope for a surprise rather than feel that something is probably or definitive.

True, it would have been nicer your way. But that's part of the problem of soap operas in general, they can only portray one of two types of relationships - utterly blissful (which makes them extremely boring) or in trouble (which more often than not means a break up. Sometimes in order to get back together, sometimes not). Even without the new writing staff, there's enough reason to think trouble lies ahead. We can just hope it's the good kind of trouble, i.e. drama but no angsty, OOC break ups...

Aussie54... *squishes* It's okay! We will overcome! We have survived the London blitz, we will survive this! *tries to think of more cliched slogans*

[austrianer]

I´m very,very optimistic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
This is not AWZ!!!

[lolaruns]

Tell that to the SuCa fans Not that they were awful (or close to DeVa in mess-ness), but if Ollian got some of the storylines they got, I would want to stab my eyes out. ;D

I'm just rewatching the clips where Carla cheats on Susanne with Friedericke and GOD, even though it's good that at least she cheated with a woman that was probably one of the dumbest most hackneyed storylines ever. Friedericke flits in, is the most moustache twirling scheming bitch type ever, Carla jumps into bed with her and Friedericke is written off immediately. Talk about obvious cheap plotpoint. They didn't even try to pretend that it was anything other than a tool to propell Susanne into the arms of Lars.

[chango]

Yeah, SuCa sometimes comes to my mind when I'm thinking about Ollian's future on the show too. To me they are an excellent example for a couple the writers had no idea what do with once their first big story was over and most of the stuff they eventually came up with was rather cringeworthy and didn't really fit the characters. And that has me a bit worried every once in a while, because when I think about Ollian and marriage/children and how disappointed I'd be if that would be the route the writers wanted to take I notice that I used to feel the same way about Carla. Most of it didn't really fit the character, but the writers didn't care, because it was obviously the only story they came up with. I'd hate it if something like that would happen to Ollian. The second big story arc for a soap couple is always much more difficult to write and tell and I want them to make sure it's true to the characters and not a letdown on the plot level. I'm just not sure that's what they're doing right now while Ollian are a backburner story on the show.

[lolaruns]

With Carla, I didn't mind as much because after all she was a professional woman of roughly the age where I could picture her settling down all stable and all. But I have to admit, now that Susanne is gone, I look at Carla and Stella and I can't help but think that it's gonna be really hard to sell me on the idea that Stella might want to play mommy to little Sophia.

But yeah, SuCa, I see many similarities. It was popular too, it provoked some similarly heated discussion and outpourings of complete (and verbose!) devotion and love by the fans over at the official message board, they too were a couple that was in the official banner and that was promoted quite heavily (including at the 3000th episode even though they were mostly broken up at that point and the writers at that point must have already known that it was gonna be permanent).

And contrary to how it might seem, it wasn't the case that big mean Tom Chroust came along and ruined sweet, pure SuCa. Timelinewise stuff like Susanne/Lars or the Carla and Friedericke thing must have been all on the writer before Chroust. And IMO that already had some pretty poor and heavyhanded and "don't know how to handle the couple" writing.

Does anybody know whether there was a writer change too between part 1 of SuCa and part 2?

[chango]

Jan 4, 2009 7:06:22 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

With Carla, I didn't mind as much because after all she was a professional woman of roughly the age where I could picture her settling down all stable and all.

I know such a comparision is usually considered to be almost sacrilegious among certain fan groups, but I think it might have worked at least a bit better for me if Carla and Hanna had eventually decided to do that - settle down and contemplate having a family together. Kinda like with Ollian after the whole boxing and gaybashing story arc they had been through a lot together and managed to survive as a couple. After a relationship has been severely tested a proposal might feel like a nice way of visibly taking it to the next level for the authors. I'm still no big fan of soap weddings where my favourite ships and characters are concerned, but I can see why at certain stages of a story TPTB might be tempted. But with SuCa that hasn't been the case either (me thinks). I didn't feel like they were ready for this step as a couple and the timing just felt off to me regarding the Carla character. I don't know whether or not I should go into more detail (also regarding the other aspects of your reply) here since this is probably pretty off topic, but if anybody is interested in a Carla discussion that's a bit more detailed maybe we could take this to some place at the VL section of the board.

[lolaruns]

I think that is exactly why I don't want Ollian to propose/get married. It might have worked if it had been done right at the hospital/after the hospital. But they have missed the good moment and if they did it now it would just have had "not ready" (from a storyline POV) written all over it.

Carla and Hanna, I dunno, I think if Hanna would have lived, they still wouldn't have seemed like a couple that should have gotten married at that point of their lives even though they were soulmates/a really romantic love story (and I could totally see them growing old together, though I don't think I necessarily would have pictured them having kids, after all it was Susanne's big desire to have kids). If Hanna had lived what I would have expected for the characters would have been for Carla to take Hanna and travel the world with her for a while.

Now to me Susanne/Carla just had marriage written all over them from the start for me from a purely storyline POV. Mostly because of the ages of the characters, the kind of status they had and that they brought Susanne back with grown up kids. Having grown up/teenaged kids (like Arno usually does) is usually the only way for a couple to be around for more than a year because the couple doesn't have to have storylines that entail drama and all because they can get the drama second hand by arguing about their kids and supporting the storyline of those kids.

To me, it always felt like a really intentional thing. Not like it was the logical next step for the romance of Carla and Susanne to get married and have kids, but that they made the story of Carla and Susanna specifically so they could do a story about getting married and having kids. I often wondered if that wasn't also intentional since they probably did get some flack that the Canna story ended in death (dead lesbian phenomenon), to now show that a lesbian could also get the beautiful white wedding and happily ever after. Except of course it ended up not being a happily ever after and they did end up in the typical "no idea what to do with stable couple, leads to bad writing" snag. So to me it always felt that the focus was on that, that Susanne could be Carla's partner (again, complete with providing teenaged kids and disapproving grouchy parents), so Carla could experience this kind of thing as well.

chango I think the "Supporting Characters" thread would be the right one for that. Unless bonobochick allows us a thread for the lesbian storylines.

[j9l45]

I voted neutral because at this point I'm in a 'wait and see' kind of mood. I feel like it is in a sort of holding pattern, and I don't really know what to expect from the new writers regarding Ollian until we see what happens when Olli comes back. I don't blame them for not really writing for them while Jo is away. I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how much screen time Christian has gotten and that Olli has been mentioned at all.

[skylighter]

I voted pessimistic... Purely from the cast change POV. Especially now that Olli has been away in Ibiza for so long...

[mona]

I'm in a positive mood... maybe neutral. But I don't think things look really bad (I mean, soaps can be so worse, it's almost heaven with Ollian)

[dkp]

I'm optimistic. Not sure why, in a good mood I guess.