Oliver and Christian, 10.11.08, video and caps

[nanna]

The video on YouTube:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CJ3en0rnpk

The video on Sendspace: www.sendspace.com/file/0tp7ge

[lolaruns]

Thank you Nanna!

Some quick thoughts:
- That was fast. Seemed like an odd point to end it too.
- I loved Gregor in this. Snooty Olivia was hilarious too.
- Jo + Flatshare doors = Frenemies forever! Sometimes I think the writers must be pure sadist for never reshooting those scenes.
- Christian... totally didn't get Olli in the last scene. It was kind of hilarious. But he learned his lesson after all when he told Olli at Schneiders that he wanted to spend every minute with Olli.
- Timo? There is a Timo in Christian's sport study group?

Maybe there is hope that we can get some aftermath in tomorrows scene after all? You know, like some of those other unspoilered scenes? At least Christian returning from the airport or something of that sort? Fingers crossed. I mean, the welcome back party for Olli from the hospital wasn't spoiled either, so maybe we can have at least some characters saying goodbye to Olli?

[tihkon2]

Nanna, thanks for filling in for Ivan!


I liked the last scene.

I still don't think much of the "fight" and the way it was presented.

[amber80]

Thanks Nanna for the clip and great caps!

[flippa]

I don't know how to re-post photos, but that trio of Christian biting his thumb nervously, looking up all excited and Olli looking down smiling .... awww! Just.... awwwwwww!!!!

Thanks Nanna for doing so much on such a special day for you and yours x

[jsg03jd]

Chrissie isn't studying with Olli's trick, Timo, is he???

Gregor is so rude to Miriam! Hilarious.

[nanna]

Today's episode with English subtitles:



Thanks so much, tihkon!

[tihkon2]

Vielen Danke mein knuddelhausen!

[seven14]

Thank You Nanna!!! and Happy B'Day and Thanks to your Bfriend!! and Thank you Tihkon

Nov 10, 2008 18:31:54 GMT -5 jsg03jd said:

Chrissie isn't studying with Olli's trick, Timo, is he???

Where are Script readers when you need them??....Someone should have caught this and used any one of a thousand other names....Maybe Timo is a common name, but it is TOO recognizable to us fans!!

I loved everyone's advice to our guys...Gregor/Charlie/and Olivia...the kiss on the cheek was sweet...the smile was nice....the hug and twirl was nice...but the overall scene...Zzzzzzz.

that was probably too harsh--but I can't help it

[restenergy]

Thanks, Nanna!! And birthday wishes and thanks to your boyfriend, too.

[brownsugar]

OK just saw the clip.

First off...these last two clips were certainly rushed, especially the one which aired today. I blame the writers because I believe there was enough air time for Christian and Olli to have had more depth to this mini episode in their life. Instead of the writers giving a little more focus to our boys, we were subject to them being the ear piece and opinion givers for near on every other cast member on the show. By the way, we may as well get use to it since I reckon that's all Christian's going to be doing until his boyfriend resurfaces.

And I agree with you seven14 about the whole execution of the argument on Friday's ep and Todays, just not well written. Fortunately for the writers, Jo is such a good actor that he was able to carry off those scenes convincing enough, even though they were not very well written.

Now regarding the argument, I really feel for Olli right now, because it does appear as though Christian still isn't getting 'it' He has no clue from where Olli is coming from. He even admits as such at the airport.

Something else which didn't ring true was how Olli, who was ecstatic at the airport to have Christian coming with him, suddenly and in a flash changed his mind. Now, I know things had to be wrapped up quickly at this point, but that quick?! Pity they didn't have them go into the airport and we see them both sitting waiting for their flight to be called, and you see Olli wrestling with his guilt of dragging Christian away from his exams. Hell... you would only need a minute or so for this scenario to play out, but instead it played out in about five seconds.

And another thing...when Olli was saying to Christian ever so slowly.."I...love...you" then Christian replies "and...I...too" I notice he just couldn't say to Olli " and I LOVE you too' Now he could say it when he thought Olli was at death's door or in the boxing ring, but he just cannot say "I love you" under 'normal' circumstance.

What I do think will happen is the Ibiza vacation combined with Christian's lack of understanding Olli's grievances will be the lead into the next storyline. The fact that Christian still doesn't understand Olli, leads me to believe this is going to cause some major pitfalls in their relationship. And that comment from Christian about Olli being more complicated than any of his previous girlfriends just highlights the fact that Christian seems to have no clue as to why Olli is so upset. And notice through the argument today and Fridays ep Olli didn't really come out and explain to Christian, who truly needs it spelled out to him like you would to a five year old, what is hurting him so much.

The vacation was meant to be for what...a week or two at the most. Remember Charlie could hardly spare Olli the day off much mind two weeks. So we know he should be coming home, but something will prevent this. We don't know what that something or someone will be to prevent Olli from returning as schedule. And remember he will have a very long time alone to think through his relationship with Christian and what he wants from life himself. And then as listed in the brochure you have those beautiful tanned people over there in Ibiza. Two months is a long time to be away from your loved one.

Gosh...The way it ended at the airport, this storyline could go in any direction. Fingers crossed we will get something superb since the script writers had two months to play with.

I did love the kiss on the cheek and happy hug and smile. And I still do love this couple.

[kes]

Nov 10, 2008 22:18:49 GMT -5 brownsugar said:

OK just saw the clip.

First off...these last two clips were certainly rushed, especially the one which aired today. I blame the writers because I believe there was enough air time for Christian and Olli to have had more depth to this mini episode in their life. Instead of the writers giving a little more focus to our boys, we were subject to them being the ear piece and opinion givers for near on every other cast member on the show. By the way, we may as well get use to it since I reckon that's all Christian's going to be doing until his boyfriend resurfaces.

And I agree with you seven14 about the whole execution of the argument on Friday's ep and Todays, just not well written. Fortunately for the writers, Jo is such a good actor that he was able to carry off those scenes convincing enough, even though they were not very well written . . .

Something else which didn't ring true was how Olli, who was ecstatic at the airport to have Christian coming with him, suddenly and in a flash changed his mind. Now, I know things had to be wrapped up quickly at this point, but that quick?! Pity they didn't have them go into the airport and we see them both sitting waiting for their flight to be called, and you see Olli wrestling with his guilt of dragging Christian away from his exams. Hell... you would only need a minute or so for this scenario to play out, but instead it played out in about five seconds.

And another thing...when Olli was saying to Christian ever so slowly.."I...love...you" then Christian replies "and...I...too" I notice he just couldn't say to Olli " and I LOVE you too' Now he could say it when he thought Olli was at death's door or in the boxing ring, but he just cannot say "I love you" under 'normal' circumstance . . .

Gosh...The way it ended at the airport, this storyline could go in any direction. Fingers crossed we will get something superb since the script writers had two months to play with.

I did love the kiss on the cheek and happy hug and smile. And I still do love this couple.

Hi Brownsugar! I had liked Friday’s episode, but I have to agree with you after seeing today’s. What a letdown.

I particularly didn’t appreciate the way they seemed to make Christian backtrack. Christian can be a dolt, but he has been attentive and loving to Ollie in the past. He has been able to say, “I love you.” I would like to pretend that this is logical -- chalk this up to "That's Christian for you." However, Christian deserves a bit more credit than that, and a bit more complexity.

I can’t help but feel shortchanged and sad. The lack of love in Christian’s last statement – well, that seemed a real backtrack to me. Writers want to take Christian back to a way of being with which they are comfortable, not necessarily reflecting Christian’s actual growth as a character.

(Even if Christian had not grown, we know him to be jealous. Wouldn't he be jealous of sending his boyfriend to spend time with all those guys on the beach? Unless he really wanted out of the relationship at this point, he would not do this so lightly.)

I originally thought Christian's comment that Olli was more difficult than any woman he had been with was in character. We've talked about how he likes the "ease" of being with Ollie before. However, rewatching the scene - with Olli calling him a stubborn ox -- well, it just resounded as a stereotype to me. Something felt wrong, sad, off . . . not written to be said by men in a relationship, but written by men wanting to make a joke out of men in a relationship.

Again, Christian can be a dolt – but those last seconds? It made no sense. And why would Olli still go to Ibiza alone? Why wouldn’t they both go together once the exam was over? This makes no sense – perhaps if Olli’s tension from Friday were built upon today, perhaps if they allowed there to be more passion today, more drama, perhaps such a strange turn could be intriguing.
As it is, I feel just sad and let down.

I wrote this earlier, but I’ll repeat it: I feel kind of like Olli myself now. As an audience member, I feel neglected. Is VL going to be sending us any tickets to Ibiza?

(The upside today: Gregor finally getting the last word.)

[lolaruns]

I thought Christian had learned something when he told Olli at Schneiders that Olli was the guy he wanted to spend every minute with.

The episode did highlight Olli's unwillingness to explain, first he cuts off his own explanation in the scene where Olli is cancelling the order for the flight, then the scene where he collects his pillows and then of course in the end where Christian doesn't truly get Olli's quick change of mind, but is happy and goes along with it anyway.

Is it really that out of the question that it is supposed to be the actual Timo (less a foreshadowing of Timo playing a role again, but an inside joke by the writers kinda like Kitty having been a guest at the cruiseship)? After all Timo worked at a gym, maybe he would study sports in the hope of improving his job perspectives.

[evilgeniuslady]

Oh Christian. So completely clueless. Luckily for him, Gregor actually gives better advice than his little brother does (and how much did I love Gregor loving being on the giving end of the advice? So so much). But Olli is also at fault, for not actually explaining why he was so upset, and just expecting Christian to understand. Communication goes both ways, and Christian was actually trying to do something about the situation, he just didn't have a clue what was really going on.

That said... I think the writers should be very appreciative of their actors, because the only reason this worked for me was Jo and Christian's performances. The scenes as scripted were rushed and a bit wtf, but I ended up liking them anyway, purely because of the acting.

[evilgeniuslady]

Nov 11, 2008 1:58:20 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

Is it really that out of the question that it is supposed to be the actual Timo (less a foreshadowing of Timo playing a role again, but an inside joke by the writers kinda like Kitty having been a guest at the cruiseship)? After all Timo worked at a gym, maybe he would study sports in the hope of improving his job perspectives.

I'm having a very good time trying to imagine Christian's not!jealous face at meeting Timo at the university. ;D (Now where is the fanfic???)

[tyranamiros]

Considering Timo is a personal trainer at the gym, it does make sense for it to be the same one. I'd really have loved to see the scene where they run into each other at the university, though. Too bad it's a soap opera where Ollian are a moderate screentime couple.

I felt like this episode was lacking. Maybe it was the part where it was rushed, I don't know. I don't understand why Olli (or Christian for that matter) didn't suggest that the two spend their winter holiday together in Ibiza--acknowledge that the exam is coming in a couple weeks, but after that spend three weeks or however long winter break is in German universities in Ibiza. It'll be colder in Germany by then, too.

I was also really hoping Christian would say "I love you" at the end there. Very disappointed they went with an option that didn't seem to show Christian's development. Christian needs to mature, but Olli does as well. I hope their next storyline (whenever it happens) will address this.

[lolaruns]

I made a poll in the poll section asking what people thought about the Ollian goodbye. It was mostly prompted by this thread because there were a bunch of interesting comments about the writing etc.

I go back and forth on whether I should try to beg the mods for a writing thread to discuss the writing (now regardless of what the chances would be of it being granted). Because part of me thinks it's an interesting subject. But I also think that one can get too obsessed with overanalyzing the writing details it might sour the overall impression. It's a pitfall I fall into as well when I for example voice my complaint that I think that the writers could have done more, more scenes, more build up, more care in how they write it. But if you take every single moment and accuse it of not showing enough care it might easily sour you too much to enjoy the overall storyline if every step is perceived as a little insult.

On the other hand, bad writing does exist sometimes. I personally thought that the dialog definitely could have been more sharp at points here, because to me it just felt like there was something overall missing. Not a definable thing, but more a general sharpness/preciseness of the writing (I don't know if that is just something that sounds in my ears based on the German they talk or if anybody of the non-native speakers has the impression too). Very subjective of course. And probably not that big of a deal since it was problematic situation with the new writing team just coming, Jo having to be written out, etc. So maybe some too quickly done dialog does make sense.

[kes]

Regarding the writing and tonight's episode:

I have pointed quite a few fingers at the writers tonight. (It's a wonder I have any left with which to type.) However, I wonder how much of the problem is their doing and how much is a production issue.

(Lola mentioned once that writers need to feel inspired -- that means that they need to be given the leeway to become inspired. Producers and others can do a great deal to reign writers in and discourage them. So, really, who does one point at? It will take more time for me to really get to know this new group of writers. They do seem capable. That's why I answered "not happy" on Lola's poll -- there were writing issues today, but I have been getting a sense lately that someone just said, "Go easy on the PDA where Olli and Christian are concerned." That being said, the comic wording and timing was strange in the bedroom -- it almost worked, but just didn't. Lugia made interesting points on the dialog here.)

Anyway, I've been pretty snarky (and a blowhard -- even more than usual) since prop eight passed.

I actually liked Friday's episode quite a lot. Today, as was mentioned by others, Christian is quite lovely to Ollie at Schnieders, and Olli still tense in that wonderfully human way . . . some of Friday's potential is not lost. Christian is still doltish too, and it was delicious watching Gregor finally get his comeuppance.

("Comeuppance" and "Gregor" are interesting words to use in the same sentence, nu?)

I probably would not have been so upset about today's episode had it not been the last of the season for this couple -- and there's the rub.

Anyway, I will be curious to read what everyone has to say tomorrow.

(Thanks for Lugia, Lola!!! Here's the link for anyone who did not get it: 4lugia.livejournal.com/226481.html#cutid1)

Thanks, Nanna. I don't think I think I thank you enough.

[aussie54]

Thank you, Nanna and Tihkon for the subtitles.

[mona]

I don't think the "ILY" at the end meant something for Christians character or his love for Olli. Isn't it normal to response with "Ich dich auch"?
After saying "I love you so much" 1 1/2 months ago I don't believe Christian wants out of the relationship or something. They kinda made it clear that the viewers shouldn't worry with comments from Olivia or Charlie, saying at least one of them can make holidays.
They only reason Olli did leave at the end was he has to.

Maybe Christian wants to say the word "love" when it comes from him. The funny thing is, when he said it to Olli in the hospital, Olli said nothing back

I liked the episode. Not everything but the little things. When they hugged they were really happy and I don't think Olli is still mad or disappointed and that's why he is "hiding" on Ibiza.

I loved Gregor/Christian and Christian saying he couldn't sleep because Olli left the bedroom. Would he worry about that if he doesn't want a relationship with Olli anymore?

[karina]

Does anybody know if we'll get a goodbye-episode tonight? I liked yesterday's episode, but there was so much left unsaid, you know? I think they could at least show Christian and Olli at the airport

[lolaruns]

I have pointed quite a few fingers at the writers tonight. (It's a wonder I have any left with which to type.) However, I wonder how much of the problem is their doing and how much is a production issue.

Yes there is definitely the issue that you can never know where a problem stems from if there is one. For example, I believe it was chrollifan who noted that the new regime has brought a whole slew of dialog writers with them who have apparently replaced some of the old ones. From how Chroust described the process, it seems that the headwriter writes the breakdown (maybe occasionally some of the dialog?) and then hands it down to different so called storyliners who write the actual scenes. So it could be the headwriter influence (it seems obvious that Chroust at the headwriter had a lot of influence on the story, but he also gave it above average attention), production influence like you said, but it could also be the new dialog writers not having a ear for how Christian and Olli talk/used to talk in the previous storyline.

But like I said, I don't really want to presuppose people's opinions and for me the interesting question isn't (just) passing out blame, firstly I would be interested in knowing if people really agree on there being a problem. To give an example, on the German board the pairing of Sarah and Leo in almost universally reviled, the ratings have been bad ever since they returned and even some of the former fans have expressed unhappiness with the way their story was written. Yet if you look at the poll on the official website over 300 people apparently voted that they were still the dream couple and will be happy together. While only about 50 people each voted for the second and third option that eventually the early relationship enthusiam would die off and they'd realize that they are not well matched respectively that they can't be happy together because too much has happened between them.

Yet on the German boards you never hear of the people who like the story. That's why I like polls. They are quick and anonymously. I would hate if people were to be scared off posting their opinion. Either because they actually loved the scenes and are afraid to say so because they are afraid their opinion will get picked apart. Or because they actually really disliked the scenes or were really disappointed but don't want to seem disloyal or harsh other people's squee. So if there is some sort of silent majority I would be interested which opinion they have.

"Go easy on the PDA where Olli and Christian are concerned."

I have heard at least two other people express that thought (one on the German board and one on youtube). I'm still not entirely sure if I fully buy into that. For example the Friday scenes were quite unashamedly sexual. The most sexually suggestive scenes in a long time. Besides, Ollian had PDA droughts during certain times at least in my mind before even when Chroust was at the helm.

I have to admit I too was worried that the new team might shy away from the physicality, but Friday's episode pretty much cured me of that fear. Seems to me that they are not afraid of showing the guys in a sexual way.

Now getting both the emotion and the physicality right is a different question, but Friday's episode suggested to me that any mistakes they might make would most likely be due to not getting it as opposed to intentional prudery. So far I'm willing to believe that they mean well. How good they are is a different question. I admit that my worries at the moment are mostly because I haven't been impressed with their work in some other storylines. I don't particularly like the selection of stories they have decided to focus on. I thought the way they handled Gregor/Sarah was poor, to have him go from almost literally beating his head against a tree at the beginning of the week to casual best friends at the end just felt wrong. The Judith/Constantin storyline also seems to suffer from a lot of randomness. But a lot of if can be excused with the writers still being new to the show and/or outside influences (the actor for Constantin leaving). And there have been good spots. Like, I liked the writing of the recent Carla solo scenes, definitely much better and fresher than the material she used to get under Chroust.

[sheepiefarm]

Finally just seen this epi.

It was.....nice..... nothing more nothing less for me

I liked the way that they showed how difficult it is for Christian to understand Olli - Olli can be pretty "flighty" when he's wound up and Christian's pragmatism just can't keep up - but if he's given time to think about it he gets there in the end - with a little help from Gregor

Finally Olli got what he really wanted / needed - Christian saying "fuck the exam, you are what really matters"

I've decided we need to start a "Miriam spot" watch - hee
Dunno why but she just makes me smile whenever I see her on screen.

I found the resurrection of Timo a little interesting - just as Olli is gonna be off-screen for a couple of months another "gay" character gets namedropped into the scene - hmmmmm

Finally a HUGE thank you to Nanna (and your boyf) for doing this when you could have been out celebrating

btw - did Olli really call Christian a "Scottish Highland bull" ? or were you just using poetic license here...........when it came up on screen I just laughed so much

[Difficult Diva]

Sheepie - I agree with everything that you stated above about the 'goodbye' setup for Oliver and Christian. I loved how Gregor was visibly shocked when Christian told him how Oliver reacted about the Ibiza trip. "Is this some sort of Gay thing?" cracked me up, because you could see in his mind that what his brother did for his lover, is something that most people wouldn't pass down at all.

I had no problems with how the storyline was set up in order to let Jo have time off from the tv show, so that he could do his play. It's much better than what ATWT did for Van the first time that he was off the show for a play.

[ivaniv]

Thanks Nanna for stepping in for me I already caught up on the episodes and I actually liked this week complete as it was, including the week's cliffhanger with Jens having a go at Lydia's mother in front of her ;D

As for Olli, even the most selfless person has to be told occasionally that what they do is appreciated. From Olli's point of view, the only time Christian noticed him was when he did something that did not fit into Christian's plans. Of course he's not going to explain. I thought Christian had a very sexy and clever brother, he got what was wrong immediately, he's much better with giving advices than Christian ever was. Probably because he's empathetic with the person while Christian thinks he knows what's good for them.

I only wish writers paid more attention to continuity. One moment Christian has no time for a quickie and/or romantic dinner with Olli and the next he goes on a trip with Gregor But if it gets Gregor naked then be it ;D