aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by aldebaran on Jul 26, 2008 11:41:38 GMT -5
I think it's a mocking of old fashioned movies where the poor stupid servant has to thank the enlightened master. I'm not really sure which movie or book it's based on. But when it's used nowadays it's usually used to point out slightly colonialistic or post colonialistic attitudes that the Europeans might still have opposite Africa, Asia etc. Or generally to mock anybody who thinks they are sooo smart or a little know it all. For example you might use it on me whenever I can't resist the temptation to launch into a longwinded explanation of boring things. Yes, Massa Buana Sahib Effendi LolaRuns, yes. Thanks Lola for your accurate explanation, and of course I'd never mock you for such a thing! It's always interesting to read what you have to say. Thanks Ivan as well. Actually, I understood that Christian was teasing Gregor for being too bossy, but I was trying to figure out why he had used those words. But I thought he was referring to a guru or something like that. ;D
|
|
|
Post by tyranamiros on Jul 26, 2008 12:43:43 GMT -5
In the US, using "Massa" would be an extreme faux pas. It comes from the 19th century "blackface minstrel" vaudeville shows where white entertainers would cover their face in soot and "act Black" (Wikipedia has a good article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface). "Massa" was how "Blacks" said "master" (as in slave-master, written/pronounced in a "Southern" accent). The African-American community today in the US really does not take kindly to its use. This was actually the first time I'd heard it used outside of a racial context.
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jul 26, 2008 12:59:47 GMT -5
Like I said, to my knowledge it has more collonial roots (the full expression is "Massa Bwana Sahib Effendi"; all four words mean Sir or Boss, it's the faux English collonial background word, Kiswahili, Arabic and Turkish I think). Which doesn't really make it any more politically correct, but there it is. At the very least it's a pretty bitchy expression I think.
I've actually never conciously heard anybody use that expression, but when I heard it it sounded familiar. Which makes me think that I must have seen it in a movie or something.
When I googled it, it showed up in a handful of German internet discussions on various topics, again, usually to mock somebody who was being a bit too much of a geek on a subject.
|
|
|
Post by Bonobochick on Jul 26, 2008 13:18:28 GMT -5
In the US, using "Massa" would be an extreme faux pas. It comes from the 19th century "blackface minstrel" vaudeville shows where white entertainers would cover their face in soot and "act Black" (Wikipedia has a good article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface). "Massa" was how "Blacks" said "master" (as in slave-master, written/pronounced in a "Southern" accent). The African-American community today in the US really does not take kindly to its use. This was actually the first time I'd heard it used outside of a racial context. No, we they don't take kindly to it. I'm a little surprised to read it was in the episode. Hmmm. I still haven't wtched Thursday or Friday's clips... will get around to it eventually and can offer thoughts on stuff then. Til then, I am just reading everyone else's comments.
|
|
lala
New Member
Posts: 113
|
Post by lala on Jul 26, 2008 14:33:51 GMT -5
Like I said, to my knowledge it has more collonial roots (the full expression is "Massa Bwana Sahib Effendi"; all four words mean Sir or Boss, it's the faux English collonial background word, Kiswahili, Arabic and Turkish I think). Which doesn't really make it any more politically correct, but there it is. At the very least it's a pretty bitchy expression I think. . I know Sahib and Effendi (or variants of the words) to both be used in Turkish. Sahib with a more "Master-like" connotation. Turks actually answer the phone "Effendim" ("My master") I think to sort of convey-like, you have all my attention.. Anyway, done with the linguistic lesson--- I really liked this episode. like a lot.
|
|
aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by aldebaran on Jul 26, 2008 14:55:55 GMT -5
Thanks tyranamiros for the link, there's always something new to learn. Talking about greetings, you may be amazed to know the origin of the Italian word "ciao", known worldwide. But I'll talk about it in the Chat Thread.
|
|
|
Post by floatilla on Jul 26, 2008 18:06:01 GMT -5
I am fluent in Kiswahili and totally did not catch the "Massa" bit...... I don't think it was meant in a negative context....
|
|
|
Post by psionycx on Jul 26, 2008 18:23:59 GMT -5
Keep in mind here that this was being used in Germany not in the United States. It wouldn't carry the same context there that it would in the U.S.
|
|
|
Post by floatilla on Jul 26, 2008 18:33:09 GMT -5
Keep in mind here that this was being used in Germany not in the United States. It wouldn't carry the same context there that it would in the U.S. You are probably right...
|
|
|
Post by tihkon2 on Jul 26, 2008 19:41:43 GMT -5
I almost said something about "massa" to Nanna when going over the subtitles before posting the video, but I've seen the expression in a German movie "Echte Kerle" and realized when I watched that movie that it did not have the same "taint" that it did here in the United States where I'm from. So to make a long story even longer, I didn't say anything because this ain't an American TV show, and all the members here aren't American, and we're all adults and can realize this wasn't a dig at specific racial groups.
|
|
|
Post by ivaniv on Jul 27, 2008 2:20:48 GMT -5
People should look at the context before they decide to get upset. There is nothing offensive about it how it is used. I think that it would be a bit extreme if they removed everything that could potentially offend somebody. They would end up making silent films or talking about the weather all the time. Not very rainy though, because that could remind somebody of floods
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jul 27, 2008 2:37:15 GMT -5
To me it seems fairly obvious that it is making fun of the masters, not the servants. It kinda reminds me of books set during this time period where it is generally assumed that the locals act all subservient, but it really it's just to rip off the stupid tourists at the next bazaar. Which again is not to make apologies for it.
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on Jul 27, 2008 9:47:49 GMT -5
I'm going to take that noted phrase in the context it was meant: Christian likening his brother to a hard taskmaster, and not any sort of American racial issue. Yes, for a moment, when I heard the word, I was going: ruhroh.
But I get it now. I didn't think it was funny, of course, but I rarely find contemporary TV writers funny---American, or not. Even the 'joke' between O & C about C's lovemaking abilities wasn't funny to me. However, knowing my good German friend as I do now, this kind of joking is just quite normal. I had to learn to ignore it rather quickly heh.
Geoff
|
|
|
Post by Bonobochick on Jul 27, 2008 10:35:24 GMT -5
I'm going to take that noted phrase in the context it was meant: Christian likening his brother to a hard taskmaster, and not any sort of American racial issue. Yes, for a moment, when I heard the word, I was going: ruhroh. But I get it now. I didn't think it was funny, of course, but I rarely find contemporary TV writers funny---American, or not. Even the 'joke' between O & C about C's lovemaking abilities wasn't funny to me. However, knowing my good German friend as I do now, this kind of joking is just quite normal. I had to learn to ignore it rather quickly heh. Geoff Oh good, someone else who didn't think it was funny. I was not offended or upset while watching it but I still didn't find cute or amusing. It was a minor moment in comparison to the rest of the episode so it didn't overshadow it. I thought Olli's teasing Christian about "bombastic" was cute. The episode was very entertaining. I don't have a lot to add having read everyone else's thoughts on the episode though I appreciated that Lars was pragmatic enough to want to test the ashes to see if it was really burned Euros.
|
|
sozment
Junior Member
Forget regret or life is yours to miss
Posts: 648
|
Post by sozment on Jul 27, 2008 11:07:00 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents. I live in the South, in America. Normally, the only way that word would be taken offensively is if you were SAYING it offensively. Christian was obviously joking and playing around with Gregor when he said it, so I wasn't the least bit offended nor did I think twice about it. I would hope no one else here in the South (if the caught the episode would either). But I guess you never know how someone will take something.
|
|
|
Post by ivaniv on Jul 27, 2008 11:19:08 GMT -5
I think it's always about context and intention. I was disappointed when some time ago people started ganging up on Jay Leno when one silly thing in his interview went a bit wrong. If you do something creative and improvised, things are bound to go wrong sometimes or get a twist one did not expect. But if you start to do something having in mind that you must not offend millions of people collectively or individually, the probability that the result is shite is higher.
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jul 27, 2008 11:31:55 GMT -5
If you mean the whole "gayest look" thing, I thought the anti-reaction in this case was very funny. Much more funny than the original joke. Which is why it didn't bother me. Now if people were sending him death threats over it that would be another thing but the "gayest look" anti campaign with various people sending in pictures where they show him the finger was funny on its own.
|
|
|
Post by tyranamiros on Jul 27, 2008 12:14:35 GMT -5
I really wasn't offended. This was just the first moment on VL that made me think about the cultural differences between Germany and the US. It's an interesting aspect about watching a program from another country, particularly in a country where there's very little international programming shown on TV.
|
|
|
Post by psionycx on Jul 27, 2008 12:30:07 GMT -5
I really wasn't offended. This was just the first moment on VL that made me think about the cultural differences between Germany and the US. It's an interesting aspect about watching a program from another country, particularly in a country where there's very little international programming shown on TV. Well, I think about it this way: when someone is being difficult, particularly at work, I have a tendency to call them a "Nazi". Nobody takes this as a serious accusation of Nazism. Just a statement that someone is being obstinate or annoying (like the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld). However, for obvious reasons this is a term I have to consciously refrain from using when working in Germany because it would have a very different context if used there. A term that is a minor insult in the U.S. is a very serious insult in Germany (also an accusation of involvement in criminal activity). You have to make allowances for the fact not everyone in the world shares a common historical context.
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Jul 27, 2008 12:38:39 GMT -5
That's very true. I watch South Asian movies on occasion and at the beginning it creeped me out endlessly that they would regularly use characters dressed up as Hitler as comic relief and that "a Hitler" was a often used as a mocking description of a nagging, bossy wife.
|
|