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Post by jsg03jd on Sept 7, 2008 20:20:59 GMT -5
I agree a lot with a lot of what's been said here. I think for me at this point, the best ending would be JP deciding to be alone for a while and maybe leaving the possibility of a reunion open. But, I think wayyyyyyy too much crazy stuff is going on right now for a definite reunion to seem anything other than at best, tacky. I guess I also like open endings more than definite ones. But, I think I've been saying the same points for a while, so I will just leave it at that. Same here. Of course, there's the concept of "moving on" but for JP to do so with Craig when Kieron hasn't even been dead for a month is a little too much, in my view.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 7, 2008 20:31:42 GMT -5
I agree a lot with a lot of what's been said here. I think for me at this point, the best ending would be JP deciding to be alone for a while and maybe leaving the possibility of a reunion open. But, I think wayyyyyyy too much crazy stuff is going on right now for a definite reunion to seem anything other than at best, tacky. I guess I also like open endings more than definite ones. But, I think I've been saying the same points for a while, so I will just leave it at that. Same here. Of course, there's the concept of "moving on" but for JP to do so with Craig when Kieron hasn't even been dead for a month is a little too much, in my view. As of Friday's ep, Kieron hadn't even been dead 24 hours. By the time Craig leaves again for school, Kieron will have been dead about a week HOL time. Like Lala said, at best it would be tacky if JP ran off with Craig now but I am definitely open to JP hooking up with Craig down the road, like in a few months.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 7, 2008 20:38:58 GMT -5
I pretty much agree 100% with this post. This is what I can't understand about this storyline. The original plan was for Kieron to die shortly after he was outed, but Jake did so well they extended his contract. I don't understand how the writers can't see that JPC going off as a couple so soon after Kieron has died, does a dis-service to JPC. Not only do the characters deserve better, but no actor has done more to bring attention to HO than James Sutton has, so why not give him the ending that he deserves, even though his actual ending is in October, but just as JPC is overshadowed by Kieron's death, in October James exit will be overshadowed by the Niall reveal, and Tina dying. So, he should have an ending in September that paints his character in a good light. There isn't much I want to add to this thread but I did want to say that I do not think that just because JP loves Craig (and I believe he does) that this does not mean he did not love Kieron. But I think the two relationships were completely different. I don't believe that you can only love one person. As a long-standing viewer of Hollyoaks (from the very first episode) I'm not particularly pleased at the way this storyline as affected the characterisation of JP or Craig. This is not to say I disliked the McDean pairing (and I sobbed like a baby when it first ended) but to me both JP and Craig became slightly less endearing in what originally seemed to me to be a kind of selfish and deceitful relationship. I want more than anything for the characters to have a happy ending but I do hope that their good qualities that made them so likeable in the first place are not sacrificed in the process.
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Post by jsg03jd on Sept 7, 2008 21:02:26 GMT -5
Some nice person over at youtube helped me out with what I couldn't understand in Kieron's dying declaration. Kieron told Niall, "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... Promise that you won't hurt them anymore.. Not my John Paul... Promise me that." I can't get over Kieron's death scenes, so I watched them and listened a little bit more carefully. I believe a more accurate transcript of Kieron's dying words as he begs Niall to spare the McQueens and his beloved John Paul is as follows: "Go to the police ...tell them that you ....I know it wasn't your fault ...you need help as much as you need forgiveness... And you mustn’t hurt them anymore. Promise me that… NOT MY JOHN PAUL... They’ve done nothing wrong."I'm still so sad...
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 7, 2008 21:56:47 GMT -5
Kieron was a great character, and his dying words make it even harder to believe that the writers want people to be happy over a John Paul and Craig coupling.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 8, 2008 8:36:54 GMT -5
Louisa - I agree with everything that you posted, in regards to JP loving BOTH Kieron and Craig. He wasn't just "passing the time" with Kieron, until Craig decided to come back to Chester. He wasn't there just for the sex, the comfort or the companionship rom Kieron. He found himself attracted to this man, and yes, it was another 'unattainable" man, but when he realized that Kieron returned the same feelings he had for him and wasn't ashamed of those feelings and Kieron knew that he felt the same way, it's a pleasure in seeing them together. I know that others didn't feel the same way, but it worked for me. There isn't much I want to add to this thread but I did want to say that I do not think that just because JP loves Craig (and I believe he does) that this does not mean he did not love Kieron. But I think the two relationships were completely different. I don't believe that you can only love one person.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 8, 2008 14:17:22 GMT -5
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 8, 2008 14:22:22 GMT -5
Sadly, that's just for people who are in the UK or Ireland.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 8, 2008 14:33:35 GMT -5
Sadly, that's just for people who are in the UK or Ireland. Well, I am sure folks outside those countries already have alternative methods. I just checked out some of the new phots on there and well as the news for the show. I rarely visit the site. The calendar looks promising (And somewhat on the airbrushed side).
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 8, 2008 14:38:24 GMT -5
The HO calendars are ALWAYS airbrushed, beyond belief. As much as I love James Sutton, he's NEVER looked like he has in the 2007 calendar from last year. NEVER.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 8, 2008 14:41:20 GMT -5
The HO calendars are ALWAYS airbrushed, beyond belief. As much as I love James Sutton, he's NEVER looked like he has in the 2007 calendar from last year. NEVER. The thing that I never understood about those calendars is why are the men pretty much fully dressed, while the women are basically wearing strategically placed pieces of string and straddling balls.
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 8, 2008 14:46:10 GMT -5
The HO calendars are ALWAYS airbrushed, beyond belief. As much as I love James Sutton, he's NEVER looked like he has in the 2007 calendar from last year. NEVER. I don't recall seeing what James looked like in the calendar but that obvious? Do you have a pic of him from it? For me, it was Jamie Lomas on the cover. He's a good looking guy but his body doesn't look as fit in RL as on the calendar cover. I thought I saw somethere else on another site when they were taking photos that he had a slight paunch, which I like on him. *google-fu time* ok, it's here in the slideshow as photo #7: www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/article1383125.ecepaunch. ETA, here's the whole 2009 calendar: axelmoto21.wordpress.com/calender-hunks-2009/and Caitlin, don't get me started on the differences between women and men's calendars. The only thing I can think of is that men (and lesbians?) need more visual stimulation, so "babes" calendars are generally not as tastefully shot as the "hunks" calendars. ETA2, Thanks Amber. I just looked at the calendar photos again and I want to know why an unflattering photo of ATD was chosen (along with hiding his nice physique) and why is Daniel Radcliffe in the calendar ?
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Post by amber80 on Sept 8, 2008 14:52:58 GMT -5
Sadly, that's just for people who are in the UK or Ireland. Well, I am sure folks outside those countries already have alternative methods. I wouldn't mind if those folks shared their solutions with me via PM. The HO calendars are ALWAYS airbrushed, beyond belief. As much as I love James Sutton, he's NEVER looked like he has in the 2007 calendar from last year. NEVER. I thought that picture was a bit much too. And although his eyes are lovely, they really aren't that blue. I'm going to look for that picture B-chick!
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Post by amber80 on Sept 8, 2008 15:10:03 GMT -5
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 8, 2008 15:12:46 GMT -5
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 8, 2008 15:17:05 GMT -5
This was interesting from the Snicks blog: I could go with needy from Craig, though I still think there was some selfishness. It was understandable selfishness because who wants to think that something they did helped contribute to someone killing himself? Still, I ain't going to whitewash it. Kudos on mentioning that JP looked like a scared little boy. And Myra wasn't just selfish but a damn hypocrite too. I see what you mean. They tried to go the Daniel Craig route with his eyes and he's a lot more tan than usual. It is definitely airbrushed but it's not ridiculously airbrushed. Thanks! ETA, one silver lining from Craig's return, regardless if you see pacing problems or not is that he hasn't seen Sarah (so far). Can you image the ME ME ME from her?
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 12, 2008 8:36:27 GMT -5
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 12, 2008 16:07:14 GMT -5
Wow. I've never not "got" Jacqui before, even with her insane "baby mania", for the past couple of months, but her actions today, are really over the top. I still don't get why Myra couldn't walk Carmel down the aisle. She raised those kids all on her own. Also, I guess that TPTB wanted to focus on the Carmel/Calvin wedding, to take off some of the heavy drama that's been going on, since Kieron's death. Yet, all I got from it was, "we didn't have enough time and/or money to spend on making another set for Kieron's funeral, so let's focus on the wedding of Calvin and Carmel and make it as tacky as possible".
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 15, 2008 11:55:30 GMT -5
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Post by Bonobochick on Sept 15, 2008 15:52:47 GMT -5
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2008 16:37:05 GMT -5
Everything that we've seen since Kieron died makes it harder for me to believe that a real SE will happen on Thursday. All of these clips make it seem like if John Paul leaves with Craig, he will just be doing it out of grief.
There is something weird about this, since neither the HO website or ch.4 have been advertising John Paul's exit. Only the website promoted Guy's return. And neither James Sutton or Guy Burnett have had any promotional appearances during the past few weeks. The magazines, which had been touting the SE for months, have suddenly gone quiet, and there are no leaks about what's going to happen.
It looks like they are saving the promotional blitz for James' exit in October, which makes sense, since that would be his official exit from the show. I wonder if Craig will be in those episodes, even though Guy wasn't filming during the time that they filmed these episodes.
But, maybe this week is just the exit of McDean (aka Craul), and next month is John Paul's exit. James said that he wanted his exit storyline to be about John Paul, so it looks like the producers are giving him what he wanted.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2008 16:48:17 GMT -5
I wanted to add, how was Craig comforting John Paul. The look on his face was more, "why aren't you over this yet." than "I'm here to help you." The spoilers really haven't held true to what we are seeing. John Paul asked Craig out for drinks, it wasn't the other way around. And Craig hasn't been on screen as much as I would expect. The focus, as it should be, has been on Kieron, not on John Paul and Craig's relationship, so they haven't had time to address the problems that they had last year.
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Post by suesue on Sept 15, 2008 19:46:10 GMT -5
Regarding the comment made by Myra to JP in the Sept. 16 epi just posted about JP's absence at Kieron's funeral "you have to respect his family's wishes" ...
Now, I will be the first to admit that I haven't been watching as closely as I usually do (just can't get my heart into it) ... but has that been the only indication/mention we've seen as to why he had no clue about Kieron's funeral? He was excluded?
To me, it just seems like another plot point rushed through.
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Post by caitlinp on Sept 15, 2008 20:27:02 GMT -5
Not only was this point not implied on the last episode, but how would Myra know that Kieron's family didn't want him at the funeral. It was never said that this was the reason, and in fact, we were given the indication that John Paul would have gone to the funeral if it had not been for Jacqui. They should have said that Kieron's parents were keeping John Paul from the funeral in the last episode, and left out the Jacqui non-sense. Regarding the comment made by Myra to JP in the Sept. 16 epi just posted about JP's absence at Kieron's funeral "you have to respect his family's wishes" ... Now, I will be the first to admit that I haven't been watching as closely as I usually do (just can't get my heart into it) ... but has that been the only indication/mention we've seen as to why he had no clue about Kieron's funeral? He was excluded? To me, it just seems like another plot point rushed through.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Sept 15, 2008 20:37:49 GMT -5
That plot point was completely over looked, but I guess we're supposed to not notice it. I know that TPTB want us to totally accept what's going on without question, but I, personally can't just swallow what's being presented to me.
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