|
Post by mrfixit477 on Jun 9, 2020 21:01:53 GMT -5
I will always think Justin knew he had HIV but did not think he was worth living if you so back look at Justin (his neck face forehead stomach) knowing now he had HIV-AIDS the time does not fit real life.
something that did not fit was he was homeless for months but he was clean shaved hair was cut.
|
|
|
Post by kevvoi on Jun 10, 2020 7:31:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mrfixit477 on Jun 10, 2020 20:50:39 GMT -5
That said, Bluman wishes we’d gotten to see more of the behind-closed-doors moments that Winston and Monty shared. “In developing that relationship, I was always referring to flashbacks that the show never had,” he says. “Like, them jumping in the car and going to Palm Springs for the weekend, listening to great music and getting to know each other and really falling in love. People didn’t get to see that, but hopefully they felt that. It wasn’t just a one-night stand. They had a lot of love and a lot of fun together.”
|
|
LadyArmand
Full Member
"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
Posts: 1,602
|
Post by LadyArmand on Jun 10, 2020 23:25:19 GMT -5
So because Monty "fell in love" that's supposed to wipe out the fact that he brutally raped Tyler?
I simply cannot with this show.
|
|
|
Post by justinate on Jun 11, 2020 4:35:05 GMT -5
So because Monty "fell in love" that's supposed to wipe out the fact that he brutally raped Tyler? I simply cannot with this show. While I will be the first to admit this show has made many, many missteps, I don't think they ever tried to convey the particular message you're implying. They actually sent Monty to prison for that crime (and there he wound up paying an even steeper price than the law dictated). The actor who played Winston was talking about why his character was "in love" with Monty. Obviously, none of what he said played out on screen, or was even mentioned within the show. I don't blame him for trying to come up with motivations for his character - as an actor, he needed to get inside Winston's mind to understand WHY he would love a guy who brutally beat him bloody. That was always the problematic part of his character's arc. And I don't think his invented backstory works with what we knew of Monty - he was intensely homophobic and self-loathing. No way would he have gone on what amounts to a gay date in public, even if it was far from home. He simply was not at ease with his sexuality, and he admitted as much during a scene we did see last season, when they were in bed together. At least, in the end, Winston's subconscious (manifested as Monty's ghost at the prom) tells him Monty would never have been his boyfriend. I honestly think the only story they did reasonably well this final season was Alex and Charlie's romance. They were really sweet, albeit incongruously PG-13 for a show like 13RW and considering Alex was guilty of murder. What I cannot understand is why they never got a love scene, if only to tie up the seasons-long arc of Alex's sexual difficulties by showing that he's finally found what was lacking in sex before. The previous year they had the same actor fully naked in a straight sex scene; we had Jess tying up Justin for sex, etc. And it's not like they shied away from depicting gay sex, because Monty and Winston did have a sex scene last year. Yet Charlie and Alex were never even shown in bed together; the closest they came to it, both guys were fully clothed! Then again, even Clay who'd held on to his virginity through 3 seasons, lost it in the most bizarre circumstances in season 4.
|
|
|
Post by kevvoi on Jun 11, 2020 7:03:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by justinate on Jun 12, 2020 11:47:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by justinate on Jun 13, 2020 13:10:00 GMT -5
Devin Druid talks about #Chalex.
|
|
|
Post by mizuryuu on Jun 13, 2020 15:04:33 GMT -5
Just finished binge watching the season. Overall, doesn't seem nearly as good as previous season. It just felt like a mismash of different storyline without anything coherent tying everything together like the Tapes or Bryce's murder. They also made the school security, the sheriff's investigation and Winston's investigation into things of such importance, but they all basically peters out in the end just so they can close out the show. Exactly 0 of those things actually played out.
Clay: Personally, I think the whole seeing ghost thing is overdone by now. At the rate they are going, Clay would be an one man show in a few more years. One thing I never liked this season is how Clay is basically superman. He walked away from a car crash, recovered from a mental break within a ridiculous period of time, and survived threatening to shoot up a police station. It felt like even if he get shot, he would be up and about next episode with just a tiny scar.
Justin: One thing I never liked was him breaking up with Jessica. Yes, that is the right thing for him to do, but he basically immediately just orbits around her for the rest of the season. I said before that the ClayJustin interaction from last season is what kept me going through S3, and that closeness seem to have disappeared this season. This season, they seem more like roommates than brothers, which is disappointing. Like many of you said, the whole AID thing is just stupid. If they had to kill him, they could easily have gone with an OD that heavily damaged his internal organs. It would fit more since he relapsed anyway.
Jessica: Not entirely a fan of the twist that she was in the know about the school's security measures. It also brings up the question of how much knowledge she has, especially the immense invasion of privacy that could easily revealed everything the group is hiding since the rest of the group didn't know they were being spied on. While she agreed to keep quiet, you would think that covering up being an accessory to murder would trump an agreement with the dean.
Ani: Much less pushing of her into our faces compared to last season, and I think the show is stronger for it. They made her move in with Jessica, but it felt unnecessary as nothing really came out of it.
Zach: Considering his spiraling and recklessness this season, it would have made more sense for him to be the one to die. In the end, it felt like they had no idea what to do with this character.
Tony: Not much to say here. It was a pretty standard storyline for him and nothing of note happened. I kind of wish they expanded his role to make him the wise advise giver to the rest of the group that he was for Clay.
Tyler: I think Tyler actually had the best character development this season. This season he is clearly shown to be better and is actively trying to put right the things he did wrong in the past. While he is not completely okay, as evident by the bathroom scene, it is entirely understandable however. In regards to the doubts other characters have of him, it is more their issues than him.
Alex: As happy as I was for Alex, I think making him gay came somewhat out of left field, as there was no previous sign of it. I wonder how much of the decision came from the fact that the actor himself was gay. I find this happening too often that when an actor comes out as gay, their character, unless they have an extended history of being straight (like Barney on HIMYM), would be turned gay as well. That just feel like pidgeon-holing the actor into one type of role.
Charlie: I do like how they treated Charlie's coming out though as pretty normal. Considering they were giving him a bigger role this season, I wish they spent a bit of time to explore a bit more of his backstory since they never really did that in the previous season (They never even explain why he was willing to be an accessory to murder, especially since he wasn't especially close to the gang at the time). Maybe a few scenes of living with the crazy pressure of his parent being the head of the Booster club, or being caught between the football team and his new friends. In the end, it does feel like he was made queer just to give someone to Alex since he is basically a blank canvas.
Winston: Like many have said, it just doesn't make too much sense based on what they shown on camera why he is so obsessed with trying to prove Monty's innocence. In the end, he doesn't even seem to do much investigating and evidence just seem to fall into his lap. It would make more sense if he had already given up on the investigation before S4 started and he just serve as a red-herring the entire season.
|
|
|
Post by mrfixit477 on Jun 15, 2020 14:42:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by justinate on Jun 16, 2020 12:33:09 GMT -5
Zach: Considering his spiraling and recklessness this season, it would have made more sense for him to be the one to die. In the end, it felt like they had no idea what to do with this character. Alex: As happy as I was for Alex, I think making him gay came somewhat out of left field, as there was no previous sign of it. I wonder how much of the decision came from the fact that the actor himself was gay. I find this happening too often that when an actor comes out as gay, their character, unless they have an extended history of being straight (like Barney on HIMYM), would be turned gay as well. That just feel like pidgeon-holing the actor into one type of role. I agree that, if they really needed someone to die in the final season, it should have been Zach. They did nothing with him, his alcoholism just evaporated overnight. He could have died of acute alcohol toxicity or a DUI or something. (That would have given a meaningful arc to Alex, since they were so close - part karmic payback since Alex killed Bryce mainly to protect Zach, and partly to explain Winston pardoning him for framing Monty.) It really didn't need to be Justin. Justin could still have contracted HIV, but not had it progress to AIDS. I feel like the death was just a framing device, they wanted a death for the final season to drive home the tragic nature of the series and they went with whoever had the maximum emotional impact (Justin, since he'd been through hell and back, and painstakingly redeemed to become a fan-favourite) and threw in a hot-button social issue like HIV/AIDS without thinking through whether or not the timeline works. Even in the new video posted, the showrunners are pushing the narrative that Justin contracted HIV during his time on the streets ... which was less than 2 years ago, and it could develop into full-blown, fatal AIDS? It was really a plot-driven story, not character-driven. As for Alex, I understand that they did drop little hints of Alex's sexuality all along. He wasn't 100% comfortable having sex with Jess last season; he threw a boner when he was swimming with Zach back in season 2; etc. But between him and Monty, there were too many surprise-gay reveals IMO. And I usually welcome more gay male characters but this was overkill if you ask me. They really shouldn't have made Monty gay (as beautiful as Timothy Granaderos is) because it sent such a bad message linking his sexuality to his rape of Tyler.
|
|
|
Post by jjose712 on Jun 19, 2020 15:44:01 GMT -5
I didn't follow the show in previous seasons (and i'm only watching some clips online) but i think Charlie and Alex storyline was totally needed to give some release between so much tragedy. Maybe it's not groundbreaking but i'm finding it sweet.
And one of the advantages of having so many gay male characters is that you can give it a pass to what happened between Monty and Winston. Monty was a tragic character full on self hate but the fact that Winston (who is rich, openly gay and in general a quite confident character) got so attached to someone who beated him it's quite troublesome (even it's not new, we get from the start of John Paul and Craig storyline, the whole Stendan arc and of course the storyline on Sex education).
And the death of Justin, well, i think they wanted something to impact the fans and well, most of them are still sobbing. When you have a teen show the quality of the acting is generally a problem, in my oppinion they have that character, discovered that Brandon Flynn had the acting chops to carry a dramatic storyline and went full for it. Maybe they should go for a more positive ending but it was a show that liked to shock its fans.
Maybe not the better in terms of quality but it was incredibly popular and opened the path for a good bunch of successful teen shows that didn't fear to touch complicated subjects (better or worse) and even maybe started a trend to have way more gay characters than the usual (and the fact that they hired several gay actors is good too)
|
|
|
Post by kevvoi on Jun 30, 2020 5:19:31 GMT -5
|
|