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Post by karolyon3 on Oct 31, 2016 4:34:20 GMT -5
I'm not. I think it's hypocritical that ALL the other characters on the show get to have sex except the gay ones. It's offensive and borderline homophobic. If they could show Emma give him a bj, why not Even? It doesn't have to be a full on anal sex scene, there is so much they could have done to infer sex, not even make it obvious. Like.. just seeing Even going down and then Isak's face. BTW, the age of consent in Norway is 16. One little clarification, Emma didn't give him a BJ. If you watch the first episode, he clearly rebuffs her advances before she even gets that far. So far, Isak and Even's storyline is following a similar progression to that of Noora and William in season 2 (first kiss at the end of episode 4, clothed bed scene in episode 5 as a follow up). They didn't have sex until the very last episode. If anything, the last clips have portrayed Isak/Even as any other couple who've recently discovered their mutual affection. Hiding from the world in their own personal little bubble, sharing intimacy and deep thoughts about life. Unlike Hotel Cæsar (some of you might remember me as the subber?), I have complete faith in Julie Andem as a showrunner, storyteller and her ability to do this storyline justice. Of course it's important to be wary given the gay community's experience with characters being sexless and/or killed off, so I completely understand the concerns that have been voiced so far.
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Post by kevvoi on Oct 31, 2016 6:53:27 GMT -5
New clip courtesy of Isak&Even Skam:
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Post by Hawthorne on Oct 31, 2016 7:43:44 GMT -5
Personally, I don't feel that the show owes me a sex scene. I don't care what was shown in previous seasons. Actually, the most graphic sex scene they've shown so far has been gay sex involving Eskild, so obviously they are not homophobic when it comes to depicting gay sex. Anyway, Part 16 was much more satisfying to me than any sex scene would have been.
In the new clip, I suspect Isak's friends know he is lying. Perhaps they have heard something from Emma. Or maybe Noora gossiped. Even not coming to school makes me worried that he will deny Isak when the pressure is on. I'm very worried about Isak. Who is there to catch him if he falls?
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Skam
Oct 31, 2016 10:10:35 GMT -5
Post by overtherainbow on Oct 31, 2016 10:10:35 GMT -5
Personally, I don't feel that the show owes me a sex scene. I don't care what was shown in previous seasons. Actually, the most graphic sex scene they've shown so far has been gay sex involving Eskild, so obviously they are not homophobic when it comes to depicting gay sex. Anyway, Part 16 was much more satisfying to me than any sex scene would have been. In the new clip, I suspect Isak's friends know he is lying. Perhaps they have heard something from Emma. Or maybe Noora gossiped. Even not coming to school makes me worried that he will deny Isak when the pressure is on. I'm very worried about Isak. Who is there to catch him if he falls? I do. If all the straight characters get to have sex but not the gay characters, then yeah it's hypocritical and offensive. I know Eskild had that 5 second long scene last season, but he is a minor character and it was a throw away scene, so it's not the same. All the main characters (Eva and Noora) have had sex scenes. Isak is the only main character to not have one yet. The new clip made me convinced that Even is depressed and that is why he didn't show up at school. I fear this will end very badly. I think we will have yet another gay storyline end in tragedy, sadly. I think it will happen soon too, because of all the Romeo and Juliet parallells (the kissing in bed scene was the last one before Juliet's death), and then I think they want it to be a shock, so they will do is shortly after all the romantic and cute scenes. I don't think we will get a gay sex scene this season. They had the chance after the kissing in bed scenes. They will not get another chance. I find it entirely unrealistic that two hormonal boys who are in love do not want to have sex. It seems like gay characters on tv are either sluts (this happens very rarely tbh) or neutered (more common). Since when have we seen a relationship like this WITH sex? Isn't it time we get to see two boys in love having sex? I think it would have been refreshing, sadly it doesn't seem like the showrunner agrees with me.
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Skam
Oct 31, 2016 10:27:55 GMT -5
Post by overtherainbow on Oct 31, 2016 10:27:55 GMT -5
I'm not. I think it's hypocritical that ALL the other characters on the show get to have sex except the gay ones. It's offensive and borderline homophobic. If they could show Emma give him a bj, why not Even? It doesn't have to be a full on anal sex scene, there is so much they could have done to infer sex, not even make it obvious. Like.. just seeing Even going down and then Isak's face. BTW, the age of consent in Norway is 16. One little clarification, Emma didn't give him a BJ. If you watch the first episode, he clearly rebuffs her advances before she even gets that far. So far, Isak and Even's storyline is following a similar progression to that of Noora and William in season 2 (first kiss at the end of episode 4, clothed bed scene in episode 5 as a follow up). They didn't have sex until the very last episode. If anything, the last clips have portrayed Isak/Even as any other couple who've recently discovered their mutual affection. Hiding from the world in their own personal little bubble, sharing intimacy and deep thoughts about life. Unlike Hotel Cæsar (some of you might remember me as the subber?), I have complete faith in Julie Andem as a showrunner, storyteller and her ability to do this storyline justice. Of course it's important to be wary given the gay community's experience with characters being sexless and/or killed off, so I completely understand the concerns that have been voiced so far. I don't have faith in Julie Andem at all. First of all it seems like Even has depression and will end up killing himself. Why did she feel the need to include this in a gay storyline? Yet another gay storyline ending in tragedy? Really?! More dead gay characters? How lovely! And what a lovely message to send gay kids struggling with their sexualities. What they need are positive portrayals of gay people, not depressing and negative! And puhlease.. this fantasy of guys lying in bed cuddling?! Not realistic. What would have been realistic would have been a sex scene, then cuddling. Guys are hormonal as hell, especially teenage boys, gay or straight, it doesn't matter. They think about sex all the time and they desperately want to have sex. The lying in bed scene kissing and cuddling (as cute as it was) felt very neutered, like they were asexual. Which is fine, but then at least let us know that they are asexual, and that they aren't just another neutered gay couple. Because that's exactly how it came across. If I'm right about Even killing himself soon that means the rest of the season will deal with that and then Isak coming out. No more kissing, cuddling, and forget about sex. Again, it feels like a cop out. Like they do this on purpose to keep it to a minimum. There is so much Andem could have done with this storyline, yet she decided (most likely) to have yet another bi/gay guy kill himself? Ugh. Whatever. This storyline annoys me so much right now, I'm not sure I want to watch anymore tbh.
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LadyArmand
Full Member
"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
Posts: 1,602
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Post by LadyArmand on Oct 31, 2016 19:37:07 GMT -5
overtherainbow No one forces anyone to watch a show (that's what a clicker is for). If you don't like what's gong on or you find it hypocritical/annoying then by all means stop watching. But for goodness sake stop acting like the show owes you something. Or like you got jilted at the alter, because there wasn't a sex scene. The show doesn't owe you a sex scene between the gay characters. Maybe that's not the story they are trying to tell. Maybe, just maybe this story is about more than two teen aged boys having sex.
To me sometimes sex scenes (gay or straight) feel tacked on because the writers couldn't think of anything else. Sometimes all it's there for is titillation, but doesn't add one damn thing to the story being told or to the development of the characters.
Let me also point out that depression/bipolar or mental illness in general is not exclusively a heterosexual thing. Plus we don't know yet if Even is actually depressed/bipolar or has any other form of mental illness, it's merely speculation at this point. Also we have no idea how this particular story is going to end, so stop taking speculation and running with it like it were fact.
And yes before you say it, you have a right to your opinion. No one is saying that you don't. However, just because this is your opinion, doesn't mean it's more valid than someone else's.
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Post by Zathras on Oct 31, 2016 20:27:16 GMT -5
Let's take it easy. It's not worth getting worked up over. I understand the concern about what might happen next considering the dark imagery, but it's still just speculation. We don't know for sure what will happen next, so don't talk as if we do. As for depictions of intimacy, there's still plenty of time left in the season. In both cases, there is room for differences of opinion.
Bottom line: show each other respect. We can disagree and still be respectful.
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Post by Zathras on Oct 31, 2016 20:37:14 GMT -5
So I guess Isak was out of touch the whole weekend. Of course he missed his friend's birthday and the party. And ditched Emma (and avoided her again today). I wish he could be more honest about what's going on; his behavior is not that great. Isak's excuse to his friends was pretty bad, and I got a weird vibe from them. Isak himself looked really uncomfortable. I'm curious how they'll treat him if/when he comes out; I'm really hoping they'll be cool.
I wonder where Even was...
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 0:11:17 GMT -5
Post by mizuryuu on Nov 1, 2016 0:11:17 GMT -5
Yeah, Isak's friends are pretty easy going considering how much he been ditching them and screwing up the plans they make together. Hopefully, they will maintain that attitude when Isak comes out.
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Post by justinate on Nov 1, 2016 9:28:22 GMT -5
Well, they showed the boys making out in bed and then Isak woke up in his underwear - I guess we're supposed to infer that they've had sex in between. After all, which teenage boys who are into each other would cuddle in bed mostly naked - apparently all weekend! - and simply keep their sexual urges under wraps?
But it is a disappointment that the show chose not to show Isak and Even having sex, or at least initiating it. As I observed previously, first-time sex has been a recurring motif in the first two seasons, very palpably depicted onscreen, so it is hard to avoid the conclusion that only when your protagonist is a gay boy, the act of first-time sex becomes something shameful and unsavoury that must be kept offscreen. For those who only follow the show and don't read the backstage stuff, I'd worry that this conclusion would seem obvious to them.
I don't think the actor's age is a valid concern - only if they were planning to show full-on naked rutting (which no one would reasonably expect), but they can surely be half-dressed and look like they are about to get it on? Neither actor nor character are under the Norwegian age of consent, for any kind of sexual situations to be off limits. And it hasn't been, not this season and not for Isak, since 3x01 showed the attempted blowjob from Emma. I am still of the opinion that, were it not for the body-image nonsense that preceded this season, we would have gotten more out of this relationship.
Anyway, I get the feeling that the boys' honeymoon period - brief though it was - is over. Their relationship is consummated (albeit offscreen) and now it is time for Drama. I'm sure it'll be very interesting but I'm afraid the damage is already done.
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 13:25:11 GMT -5
Post by overtherainbow on Nov 1, 2016 13:25:11 GMT -5
Well, they showed the boys making out in bed and then Isak woke up in his underwear - I guess we're supposed to infer that they've had sex in between. After all, which teenage boys who are into each other would cuddle in bed mostly naked - apparently all weekend! - and simply keep their sexual urges under wraps? But it is a disappointment that the show chose not to show Isak and Even having sex, or at least initiating it. As I observed previously, first-time sex has been a recurring motif in the first two seasons, very palpably depicted onscreen, so it is hard to avoid the conclusion that only when your protagonist is a gay boy, the act of first-time sex becomes something shameful and unsavoury that must be kept offscreen. For those who only follow the show and don't read the backstage stuff, I'd worry that this conclusion would seem obvious to them. I don't think the actor's age is a valid concern - only if they were planning to show full-on naked rutting (which no one would reasonably expect), but they can surely be half-dressed and look like they are about to get it on? Neither actor nor character are under the Norwegian age of consent, for any kind of sexual situations to be off limits. And it hasn't been, not this season and not for Isak, since 3x01 showed the attempted blowjob from Emma. I am still of the opinion that, were it not for the body-image nonsense that preceded this season, we would have gotten more out of this relationship. Anyway, I get the feeling that the boys' honeymoon period - brief though it was - is over. Their relationship is consummated (albeit offscreen) and now it is time for Drama. I'm sure it'll be very interesting but I'm afraid the damage is already done. I agree with all of what you're saying here. I am very disappointed with this season. I expected so much more. I am disappointed, saddened and yes borderline offended that the sex scene happened off screen. I cannot believe they are still censoring this stuff in Norway in 2016. It's truly mind boggling. I also agree that the honey moon face is over. They had one chance to include a sex scene but they didn't. I think Even will commit suicide, then there will be the fallout from that and Isak ultimately coming out.
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 13:30:25 GMT -5
Post by overtherainbow on Nov 1, 2016 13:30:25 GMT -5
overtherainbow No one forces anyone to watch a show (that's what a clicker is for). If you don't like what's gong on or you find it hypocritical/annoying then by all means stop watching. But for goodness sake stop acting like the show owes you something. Or like you got jilted at the alter, because there wasn't a sex scene. The show doesn't owe you a sex scene between the gay characters. Maybe that's not the story they are trying to tell. Maybe, just maybe this story is about more than two teen aged boys having sex. To me sometimes sex scenes (gay or straight) feel tacked on because the writers couldn't think of anything else. Sometimes all it's there for is titillation, but doesn't add one damn thing to the story being told or to the development of the characters. Let me also point out that depression/bipolar or mental illness in general is not exclusively a heterosexual thing. Plus we don't know yet if Even is actually depressed/bipolar or has any other form of mental illness, it's merely speculation at this point. Also we have no idea how this particular story is going to end, so stop taking speculation and running with it like it were fact. And yes before you say it, you have a right to your opinion. No one is saying that you don't. However, just because this is your opinion, doesn't mean it's more valid than someone else's. What?! When have I ever said the show owes me something? I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of all the straight couples having sex except the gay one. You see it as "they don't have to show the boys having sex" I see it as hypocrisy and discrimination because all the other straight couples get to have sex. I wan't equality, that's it. This isn't me fetishizing a gay couple, this is me wanting a gay couple to be portrayed as realistic as possible, and that usually means sex. I am quite frankly offended by the homophobia of this show because all other couples get to have sex except the gay one. It's the message they send, that gay love is less worthy than straight love, that gay sex is more controversial than straight sex, that gay people are not "allowed to have sex", at least not on tv. Oh and btw, this isn't saying I don't want intimate scenes too, of course I do. I want kissing/cuddling AND sex. I want both. I think Class has been wonderful so far because they have managed to include the gay couple being intimate, kissing and cuddling, but they were also allwoed to have sex, unlike on Skam. I am also sick of the trope of having yet another (most likely) dead gay character. I know gay people get mental illnessees too. I just think it's a shame (hah!) that they decided one of only three gay characters had to get it. It's like all the other straight main characters on the show get to be happy, except the gay ones. The gay characters are doomed to be depressed and miserable. They will never find true happiness or true love according to this show (that's assuming it plays out the way I think it will). It's like they're saying lets tack on mental illness and possibly suicide to the gay season, because why the hell not! More depressing gay storylines! YAY! Oh and btw.. I am allowed to point out these things. I'm allowed to have an opinion. You are allowed to disagree, but I will still voice my opinion, how negative that might sound to you. Not everyone has to like the show. Don't worry though, you're right about one thing. As I find the show hypocritical and badly done I will not watch it anymore. I'm done with it. There are other shows out there that do gay storylines so much better than Skam, Merli, Class and Eyewitness for example. At least the gays on those shows get to have sex.
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 14:07:24 GMT -5
Post by Hawthorne on Nov 1, 2016 14:07:24 GMT -5
For me, this is one of the best coming out/coming of age dramas I have ever seen. The writing and the acting has been fantastic. I found the cuddle/makeout bed scene immensely satisfying, so I can't really wish they did it differently. I can't wait to see what's coming down the pike for poor, dear Isak.
BTW, the guy making the English translations abruptly deleted his YouTube account. Apparently, YT didn't complain to him or anything. He just did it out of paranoia that he could get in trouble. Anyway, it looks like some other people are stepping forward to do the work so hopefully we'll continue to be able to follow this great series.
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LadyArmand
Full Member
"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
Posts: 1,602
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Post by LadyArmand on Nov 1, 2016 14:09:10 GMT -5
overtherainbow I while I might on some level agree with some of your points, what turns me off personally about you is your delivery. I read the comment justinate wrote which essentially tackled the same exact issues you pointed out. However, I came away with a completely different feeling then when I read some of your comments. Expressing disappointment is one thing, but you take it beyond that, and to me how you express that is off-putting.
And I said you have a right to your opinion and a right to express it. Stop acting as though I or anyone else here are trying to censor you. However, you cannot express an opinion is a public forum and not expect commentary on said opinion. Especially when you come off as self-righteous and combative about it.
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 16:25:39 GMT -5
Post by Hawthorne on Nov 1, 2016 16:25:39 GMT -5
So apparently there will no longer be translated videos of Skam on YouTube, BUT the same person who was doing those videos will now post English transcripts of each new episode here: evak4lyfe.tumblr.com/The show didn't post an episode today, but they did post a text that Isak sent Even. It said basically, "Whats up with you never being at school. Hope you don't fuck up the 10% (limit of absence). Wanna hang?" (translation by Scampari). So Even didn't go to school on Tuesday either. And he's not responding to Isak. Hmm...
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dalia
Junior Member
Max & Iago Forever
Posts: 387
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Skam
Nov 1, 2016 17:20:24 GMT -5
Post by dalia on Nov 1, 2016 17:20:24 GMT -5
he was right in his paranoia tho, he tried to reupload a clip and it was immediately taken down. there is another good source on tumblr. skinsplaces.tumblr.com/ posts .srt english files of the full episodes and is affiliated with skamstuff.tumblr.com/ which translates the text messages the official site posts.
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 9:25:19 GMT -5
Post by Hawthorne on Nov 2, 2016 9:25:19 GMT -5
A new episode has been posted by the show on their site: skam.p3.no/And it's to die for!You will have to use the various resources that have been posted to obtain an English translation, if you need it. What makes this series so powerful, IMO? Verisimilitude. Google that if you don't know what it is. The acting is very natural. What I like about today's episode is how you can see that they are both pretty scared about what's happening between them and its implications for their lives. Isak's comment about how he doesn't want mentally ill people around him might contain some foreshadowing, although I didn't see any signs in the episode that Even is mentally ill. I do think he has some secrets, though. It looks like the show is going all in with the depth of feelings between the boys. Looks like it's going to be a very deep, profound love. That's great, except that it is also like in Romeo+Juliet... So where does Isak go from here? He's at a point where I think he has to start coming out. Will he do that, or will he unwisely try to keep him and Even secret? Perhaps he won't have a choice if gossip is going to fly about him and Even.
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 10:18:41 GMT -5
Post by myadam on Nov 2, 2016 10:18:41 GMT -5
It might not be secret that long. Since Even told Sonja about him and Isak. Sonja knows Emma. If she tell her then. Isak will be out somehow. But it will be on his own term or someone else do for him instead.
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Post by kevvoi on Nov 2, 2016 15:45:53 GMT -5
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 15:53:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ferdavid on Nov 2, 2016 15:53:49 GMT -5
😍😍😍
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 19:44:44 GMT -5
Post by Zathras on Nov 2, 2016 19:44:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the links! And thanks to whoever posted the clip! Wow, that was nice. I guess I didn't really expect things to progress so quickly, nor did I expect so much affection in a public place so soon (not that anyone was there to see). I'm pleasantly surprised that Even told Sonja right away, considering how often shows try to drag that part out. I guess that means they plan to focus elsewhere. "Verisimilitude" is indeed a good word for it, Hawthorne . I thought both actors did a good job showing the nervousness. Even was relieved and happy when Isak said it was awesome, not quite sure of himself (not that I blame him for being apprehensive considering how long it took Isak to respond ). The smile that grew across his face was nice to see. The scene felt very realistic. I would have liked a bit more of an immediate shot of Even's face when Isak talked about "mentally ill people". It was a little hard to get a read on his reaction. I keep going back and forth on whether that's foreshadowing or not. Even did make a pretty quick exit once the bell rang. I guess he's not quite so comfortable with others knowing just yet. So ... when will Isak talk with Emma?
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LadyArmand
Full Member
"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
Posts: 1,602
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 20:23:35 GMT -5
Post by LadyArmand on Nov 2, 2016 20:23:35 GMT -5
When Isak talked about mentally ill people, that could be either foreshadowing, or it could simply be a further explanation as to why Isak lives where he does. Remember in the cuddling scene when Even asked Isak about it, he kind of glossed over it. It's hard to live with anyone who is mentally ill, but when it's a parent who is ill it can be extremely difficult. Especially because many teenagers Isak's age end up parenting their parents.
Yes Even left rather quickly after the bell rang, however, I liked the way he told Isak that his parents would love him. The solicitude between them is lovely to see.
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Skam
Nov 2, 2016 20:45:22 GMT -5
Post by Hawthorne on Nov 2, 2016 20:45:22 GMT -5
Surely a confrontation with Emma is up next. That should be interesting.
I thought it was a bit odd that they spent so much time talking about parents. It's a bit early to be worrying about that considering that neither of them lives with their parents. It could be yet another parallel with Romeo+Juliet since, of course, in that story the lovers' two families caused all the trouble. I hope not, though, since I'd really like the R+J parallels to come to an end. Actually, it could be that Even's parents are dead. He had kind of a wistful reaction to Isak's question about them.
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Skam
Nov 3, 2016 8:02:23 GMT -5
Post by rapulainen on Nov 3, 2016 8:02:23 GMT -5
Probably the mentally ill reference is in regard to Isak's mother ... remember the weird texts his mom sent him about God etc. in the scene where he discusses religion with ? (sorry can't remember her name ... the Muslim girl).
As regards paranoia.. this is Norway not Hollyoaks, Emmerdale or Wolford or Days of our Lives. The show is much more realistic than most soaps where everything blows up on regular basis and everyone is plotting something. Sure there could be some hard feelings if Isak jilts Emma. And, there will be some eye rolling among Isak's straight bros. But I doubt there's going to be anything comparable to those other soaps.
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Skam
Nov 3, 2016 12:44:07 GMT -5
Post by overtherainbow on Nov 3, 2016 12:44:07 GMT -5
So.. Even says things have been moving "too fast" and he needs time to think, even though it was "his fault"?! WTF?! Right. Time for me to take a break from this show again. Maybe I was right all along, he played him? Or maybe he's just scared, maybe their reactions were both coming from being scared? Isak being scared of being gay and lashing out at Eskild and Even being scared hence he needed to pull back from Isak? It could also be that he took that mentally ill comment personally. It's the perfect timing though.. they never got a chance to have sex, and now maybe my prediction will come true after all. I don't understand how this show can be so good one moment and so bad the next moment?
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