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Post by lolaruns on Apr 15, 2008 23:40:45 GMT -5
I think it was particularly on point because even though we don't see it from watching just the Ollian clips, the story with Gregor and his wife was one of the biggest storyline of recent times. Essentially, Sarah (that would be Gregor's wife), was in this supercouple with this guy Leonhard, they met, fell in love and then found out that they were half siblings. So they vowed to stayed apart. Leonhard married a woman named Jana and Sarah moved on with Gregor even though they never let go of each other. It seems to be one of the most hated storylines because both Gregor and Jana were very beloved characters who had a lot of chemistry with their unloving spouses, and the two (Sarah/Leonhard) would continue to meet, lament their big tortured love and then go home to their spouses and lie their butts off, assuring them, giving them hope even though at that point they should have known that the relationships wouldn't have worked out. So even though they are considered a supercouple by the writers, your average message board has nothing but insults for them. From Gregor's perspective it was that he was his typical fun loving sleeping around self. Then he met Sarah and they got into many arguments because Gregor announced that he didn't believe in love and that love is an illusion, while she did believe in love. The way things go he naturally fell for her (I think the clip of Gregor and Christian camping in the woods somewhere and Gregor admitting to Christian that somebody has ensnared him and he's in love with Sarah is on youtube somewhere). Then there was long and really romantic courtship phase where Gregor lured her out of her shell since he wasn't over Leonhard yet, a storyline that many people loved. Among various things his ex who had dumped him on the altar came back and wanted him back and after some soul searching Gregor told her to take a hike, because Sarah was the one he loved. Meanwhile Gregor and Sarah and Leonhard and Jana were all close friends, which naturally led to Leonhard constantly skulking around and veiled jealousies between Sarah and Leonhard. Including things like the big 3000th episode wherein Sarah and Leonhard met in Paris, lied to both their SOs that they were with other people, to spend one!last!magical night together, telling each other how much they adored each other and sharing a bed together holding hands all night (remember, still think that they are siblings). So then they return. Gregor finds out about the night. Blows up. Forgives her. Marries her anyway after only almost standing her up on the wedding day. Leonhard and Jana still hanging around (including "helping" prepare the bed for the wedding night). Then a current villain sends a letter where he reveals that he is Leonhard's father and that Sarah and Leonhard aren't related and can be together. Leonhard finds out and marries Jana anyway. Gregor finds out and after hiding it for a while tells Sarah and they still decide to stay together. Then Sarah finds out she's pregnant. Then Leonhard and Sarah can't stay away and have a long explicit love scene in a barn. After which they still both decide to return to their spouses, again. Then Jana finds out, gets mad at Sarah, drives like a madwoman and gets them both into an accident, which kills Sarah's unborn baby. After which Sarah and Leonhard still decide, again, to stay with their spouses (though their latest reason was they couldn't stay together because Sarah was having Gregor's baby; but not Leonhard has to stay with Jana because she is a needy and unstable person). Then Jana dies abruptly from the aftereffects of the accident. And Leonhard and Sarah still want to do the whole honoring your spouse thing. Of course then Gregor finally finds out the truth and dumps Sarah, who still doesn't return to Leonhard, but instead starts taking drugs because she can't handle the guilt over Jana's death. But really the only thing you need to know is that it was apparently a loooooong, torturous storyline where Sarah would constantly act perfect and lovey dovey around Gregor and then turn around and immediately switch on "Oh Leonhard, our love is so grand and so tortoured" mode. So that was Gregor's main storyline for the longest time and it's finally over and most fans seem to think that he more than deserves to act a bit touched in the head right now, considering how long Sarah and Leonhard lied to him and Jana (eventually leading to Jana's death). Other than that, Christian and Gregor aren't really that rarely on different sides and disagreeing over various issues, so I'm not surprised that there is conflict. Yes, Christian was totally choosing the wrong method to come out (blurting out "I'm gay!" rather than "I'm doing Olli!"), but it feels very Christian. I normally disapprove when character's act dumber than dirt to progress a certain storylines, but in this case, it feels in character of Christian
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anita
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Post by anita on Apr 16, 2008 0:09:11 GMT -5
Leonhard and Jana still hanging around (including "helping" prepare the bed for the wedding night). ... Then Jana finds out, gets mad at Sarah, drives like a madwoman and gets them both into an accident, which kills Sarah's unborn baby. .... Then Jana dies abruptly from the aftereffects of the accident. LMAO!! Great recap, Lolaruns! Preparing the bed for wedding night? Seriously, who comes up with this stuff? ;D In congested form it's absolutely hilarous. You forgot to mention that before Jana dies she has just enough time to say goodbye to everyone, write couple of letters and bless Leonard and Sarah's love. But, to stay on topic. That long courtship aside, I do believe that losing this baby was a second time for Gregor, only this time, I suppose, it was even harder because he was/is so in love with his wife and has to deal with her betrayal. That's a lot, no wonder he's escaping into sex and then some. Also, I wonder how Christian sees Gregor's behavior. Afterall, he called Gregor on his (still valid) marriage vows to Sarah and to help her.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 16, 2008 0:19:45 GMT -5
LOL I really wanted to kick Christian when he did that, because Gregor was obviously suffering himself while everybody was telling him "Nooooo, we have to stop Sarah from feeling guilty! You have to forgive her immediately or else she'll hurt herself! She'll never be able to play the piano again!".
But the different outlook on life and love seem to be an ongoing theme between Christian and Gregor at the moment.
I know Jana was beloved and a good actress, but from the vids she really could be the worst type of soap "let's all hug and be happy" pollyanna. At least both Gregor and Sarah were sufficiently skeeved out by that too and took down the sheets and apparently had sex on the floor instead or something.
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anita
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Post by anita on Apr 16, 2008 1:59:37 GMT -5
.. everybody was telling him "Nooooo, we have to stop Sarah from feeling guilty!... I wish someone would say to Gregor -- Sure, booze is not the answer, but damn that bitch, let's go drinking and brawling tonight! But hey, it's daysoap, so. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Gregor's way down yet. .. At least both Gregor and Sarah were sufficiently skeeved out by that too and took down the sheets and apparently had sex on the floor instead or something. Hmm, now that's... good, if not hot, sort of. I didn't know that. Thanks for info.
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Post by jaymac74 on Apr 16, 2008 3:27:28 GMT -5
Hi newbie here,
Just felt that Ihad to respond to the 'dumber than dirt' comment! What else could Christian have said to illustrate his point more effectively than 'I fancy men' and 'I am gay'? His expression alone showed that he was deadly serious.
Gregor doesn't need to know any more details than that - not everyone coming out has a current or even former partner. It takes a heck a lot of courage to come out to your only remaining family member and his fears were vindicated cos Gregor brushed him off he must have been devastated - poor thing!!
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 16, 2008 3:57:20 GMT -5
The thing is, Christian himself isn't really sure at this point that he is gay (like he said himself on Monday). So saying "I'm in love with Olli/I'm with Olli and therefore I'm not single" is a much better description of his situation.
Plus, Gregor knows Olli. So maybe "I fell for this person I know" would make more sense to him than "I have a new sexuality". But, what Christian did is understandable. He wasn't really in the right frame of mind to concoct the perfect strategy (nor was he in the right frame of mind to press on and specify especially once Gregor threw the "warmer Bruder" comment).
It's actually an interesting twist on the angsty coming out soap story. Rather than an evil disapproving parent a la Nuke you have somebody who just doesn't take it seriously? Must be uniquely painful in its own way. Christian after all has struggled with this for some months now and now Gregor just laughs it off as something not to be taken seriously.
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Post by jaymac74 on Apr 16, 2008 4:29:20 GMT -5
Yes i agree totally - just don't personally feel that Christian is dumber than dirt or that his strategy was wrong. I think he also was partially reacting to Olli's remark, that he was too gutless to come out - IMO he wants Olli to be proud of him.
I also think that he is proud to be with Olli and just wants to be open.
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Post by jaymac74 on Apr 16, 2008 4:31:34 GMT -5
By the way is the sendspace link working for the 14/04 episode for the subtitled version? - cos i can't download it
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Post by ivaniv on Apr 16, 2008 5:23:14 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be funny if Christian found enough confidence and instead of telling Gregor again, he would just show him, like in his dream. Only this time he wouldn't be worried if Gregor would disapprove
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 16, 2008 5:23:25 GMT -5
Believe me, I mean it in the most loving way possible We mock, because we care. Me thinks that Olli is a smart cookie. Because if he wanted Christian to come out then going after his pride (making it an issue of bravery) is exactly the right thing to do. That said, I don't think that Olli is being calculating when he says that. And he is right. Prolonged lying really isn't very much in Christian's nature and it's unlikely that he would be happy with it for a longer period of time.
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Post by ivaniv on Apr 16, 2008 5:28:54 GMT -5
He wanted to help him. Olli can live in secret with him, but it's killing Christian. Christian did not see that at first, so he got a bit angry, but he got it quickly enough, that dodging all the questions and trying not to get caught isn't good for his nerves.
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g73t
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Post by g73t on Apr 16, 2008 6:14:44 GMT -5
The thing is, Christian himself isn't really sure at this point that he is gay (like he said himself on Monday). So saying "I'm in love with Olli/I'm with Olli and therefore I'm not single" is a much better description of his situation. Yes, I agree with that ... then maybe Gregor would understand what exactly Christian is saying , but this is the way how the writers make us feel even more for Christian and Oliver..... well, this is what soap is about .... struggle as much is possible. Poor Christian
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Post by psionycx on Apr 16, 2008 8:15:45 GMT -5
He wanted to help him. Olli can live in secret with him, but it's killing Christian. Christian did not see that at first, so he got a bit angry, but he got it quickly enough, that dodging all the questions and trying not to get caught isn't good for his nerves. Precisely. Christian's confession to Judith at No Limits bears that out. He doesn't want his relationship with Olli to be a secret. You can tell he loves the playful roughness he can have with Olli as a man, like in the gym the other day. Having to hide things and worry about every word and every touch has to be nerve-wracking. I think he just broke and spilled out the gay admission because Gregor was being so persistent about finding and hooking up with girls. Not having planned it though it didn't come out in the most effective way. And Gregor knows that he's being a horn dog and probably thought Christian was just doing the gay thing as a funny way of saying "enough already!" Finally Christian's a romantic, as we've seen in the past. He has a rather idealistic view of love. The fact that Olli is so understanding and caring only makes him want the relationship more. Of course, Gregor might not have taken an admission that he's with Olli any more seriously than a claim that he's gay I suppose. Gregor's mind being where it is these days, he probably would have thought that was a joke as well. But it's a provable one, unlike a claim of general homosexuality.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 16, 2008 8:49:11 GMT -5
I think based on Christian's convo with Judith where she says something like "You can change that easily" and Christian saying "By telling Gregor" and looking contemplatively that he did intend to tell Gregor at the boxing hall. It seems very Christian to want to tell Gregor in the middle of a brotherly and very manly activity (working out, boxing).
I do agree that the moment was picked spontaneously, because of Gregor's words and/or because it was the moment Christian finally had worked up enough courage.
Can you tell I really enjoyed this episode? It also felt very in character that Christian was stand offish with Olli during breakfast but then was immediately much more agreeable and contemplative of the things they were fighting about on his own/with other people. Very reminscent of how Christian acted before they got together, when *we* already knew that Christian was secretly dreaming about Olli and talking to Halunke about his plans, but in direct interaction, when around Olli he still acted abrasive, even though his other interactions showed us that his internal life was very different.
He's lucky that Olli so far seems to "get" that Christian is that way (I dare say, your average woman would probably not be as accepting of Christian running off first and then returning with a reworked attitude as a way of dealing with conflict).
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Post by amber80 on Apr 16, 2008 8:59:15 GMT -5
Can you tell I really enjoyed this episode? It also felt very in character that Christian was stand offish with Olli during breakfast but then was immediately much more agreeable and contemplative of the things they were fighting about on his own/with other people. Very reminscent of how Christian acted before they got together, when *we* already knew that Christian was secretly dreaming about Olli and talking to Halunke about his plans, but in direct interaction, when around Olli he still acted abrasive, even though his other interactions showed us that his internal life was very different. I quite like it that we get to see how Christian really feels; so much better than guessing and trying to figure out why he's reacting in that way... You really understand why he reacts the way he does because you got to know him; they've taken the time to tell this story and all the action/dialogue is in character...
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Post by psionycx on Apr 16, 2008 9:16:48 GMT -5
Well, but I also think that's like the roughhousing they did at the gym or the smacks they tend to dish out. It's a bit more physically aggressive than is usually acceptable in a male-female relationship too. The dynamic between two guys can be very different than between a man and a woman. Christian being such a macho guy I think that he enjoys the greater freedom to indulge "guy behavior" that Olli allows him.
I agree that Christian was contemplating telling Gregor, but I think that blurting it out during boxing practice was in response to Gregor's single-minded harping on the idea of getting some girls. Christian just broke down and said it because Gregor wouldn't let up. But unfortunately I think that Gregor mistook it for exactly that reason.
Olli seems to love Christian because of, rather than in spite of, his gruff nature. This squares with the development over the last few months, where at first Olli thought Christian was a macho jerk, and then realized that he's actually very sensitive underneath. That's why I think Olli doesn't mind when Christian's terse, because he knows it's just a cover for what's inside. Olli is exactly the right kind of partner for a man like Christian.
I agree that this week's installments were absolutely awesome. The characters all have this really great dynamic going on. Christian and Olli being playful with each other is just too cute to watch. But it's the understanding that seems to be between them that is so great. As you say, the way Christian gets defensive and Olli indulges it because he knows better than to take it seriously. They really are an awesome couple, and the VL writers, along with Thore and Jo, are doing such a good job with it.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 16, 2008 9:59:34 GMT -5
Agreed. They have very different personalities but make a perfect combo for each other. I love that Olli is the less "loud" one, but he never comes across like he is letting Christian walk all over him. He knows exactly when to push and stand up for himself (not backing away from the door or before they slept together the first time and Olli called Christian on what he had said in the chat) and when to stay put and wait for Christian to come around on his own. Christian might frequently the "Yell first, think later" kind of guy, but their relationship doesn't come across at all like one of them is the user and one of them is the sucker.
I actually hate that I can't help but wait for the other shoe to drop and worry that they will eventually too fall to soap opera misunderstanding disease or have their own serious fallouts. When it happens it will be a real shame because right now the way they are in sync is really perfect. It's not without conflict but it works.
If they keep this up then they'll stay my top couple even if Nuke and DeRo start screwing each other upside down and up the walls.
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Post by psionycx on Apr 16, 2008 10:25:44 GMT -5
It all goes back to the campfire conversation where Christian said: "I would want to know if I was important to someone".
Olli's steadfast determination to be with Christian is what makes Christian respond to him. That Olli is strong-willed and not passive also appeals to Christian's emotional needs. Olli makes him feel special, which is very important to him given the hard life he's had. As sweet as Coco was I don't think he had that with her.
I think that's the conflict they're lining up because Christian in turn wants to make Olli happy. And being closeted is going to be a real strain on him because he wants to be open and proud of his partner. He certainly gave in quickly enough on the issue of telling Gregor, even if he was unsuccessful. That Olli was so understanding about the lack of success was, I think, very meaningful to Christian.
Olli is so supportive and doesn't try to make him feel like a failure. Instead, he's always a source of encouragement, whether it's with Christian's entry into college, boxing or coming out.
I too hope they don't try to dismantle this relationship too quickly (or at all) because it's so great.
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Post by brittanyerinxx on Apr 28, 2008 18:25:30 GMT -5
I agree, it is so great. I hope they have one of those Lily and Holden[ATWT] Relationships, were there together since teenagers, break up sometimes, have big fights & be with other people [to add conflict] but still always end up together in the end.
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