Widespread world notice of VL (Repost by requst)

[kyle]

wow.. this story sure is getting lots of attention judging by the different blogs mentioning the clips on YT, AfterElton, etc. It is gaining in popularity worldwide. Which begs the question, do you think the producers of VL are making note of the widespread gain in interest? Thinking they hit a gold mine with Ollian, they may infact keep this storyline alive and cater to the various comments about the hotness of Olli & Christian? I would think with this much interest, it would not be in their best interest to keep Ollian alive for as long as possible, before breaking them up and/or one of the guys having an affair with a woman which so many fear will happen.

[babylondancer]

Well, it is a soap after all, so we can't really expect to see our boys live happily ever after. Regarding the usual storylines of VL they might even discover that they are brothers. lol
But I really hope they won't take RTL's road and turn Christian straight again.

[scifimlb]

i love ollian i adore them...they are so romantic.....the way both of them fight for each other and stick up for their relationship is almost unheard of...christian & oliver have both stated their love for each other....and how happy they are with each other....and with genuine affection.....they (the writers of VL) have moved past the solitary issue of them just being gay...and moved onto other problems and issues that gay couples as well as straight couples deal with....
that being said....i realize no one lives happily ever after in soapland....but i am hoping the writers of VL will not pull out that tired lame storyline...of having some woman come in and turn one the gay boys straight....Implication: that gay guys can be turned with the "right" or sexy enough woman. its stupid simplistic and insulting. as much as i love ollian i would come down hard on vl and ollian if that is the path they took....now i know u need some kind of drama or angst to keep the couple interesting and thus on the air....so a love triangle might be called for.....but...how about with another dude....a love triangle with 3 dudes....i don't think its christian who should have the affair though....it's too perdictable....and olli being the victim is too stale....but if olli had the affair...we could see how christian would handle that and i don't mean an affair where olli meant to hurt christian....just something that ollie got caught up in...and didnt really mean for it to happen....just a thought i had....all i am saying is that there is much more they can do with this couple....then just bring in the pretty woman and covert one of the boys.

[scifimlb]

well that not exactly what i meant....i know olli is bi...though his major relationships have been with men...he still "classifies" as bi....but since the break with coco...christian has almost always identified as gay....not bi...either that or the english translation is wrong....and if thats the case...then olli's identifing as bi would be off too...right? unless the word for gay and bi are the same in german.
anyway...my initial point was if they wanted to break them up completly....there are other ways then to bring in that storyline.

[lolaruns]

.but since the break with coco...christian has almost always identified as gay....not bi

I think that's mostly because Christian is a bit stupid simple. Seriously, he is a very black and white or all of nothing guy, I have no problem buying that he would shoot directly for the gay label. That doesn't mean that it would be right. Just because he calls himself gay doesn't mean that he knows what it means. After all he also used terms such as "I'm turning gay" (with Judith), "I don't know if I'm it" (with Olli) and "Are you gay - I just fell in love" (in the dream with Gregor. So my guess is that for Christian to call himself gay has more to do with making a committment to Olli rather than him really knowing what it means. Not to mention, he is always the guy who always thinks that any love he is in at the moment will last forever, so why call yourself bi if on the inside he hopes that he'll never have to find a new person?

On all accounts Christian's on screen relationships were completely out of his own free will and reasonably happy and sexual.

I do agree that a woman coming between them would be boring, but what it wouldn't be would be a case of turning. Olli has always been openly bi and no matter what Christian calls himself, he likely is too given his history with women. He has fallen for women and been happy with them before. We do presume that Christian is even more happy and fullfilled now with Olli (though admittedly Christian has never exactly said that, but we are hopeful fans). But I'm pretty sure that that is not the same as a 100% Kinsey scale gay. Christian seemed to be genuinely clueless about being gay when he started falling for Olli. And since he had a sex life with women, I assume that his desires must have included women. (aside from the fact that when you look at those scenes, it seems rather obvious to me that back then they hadn't already planned for Christian to be gay, because the scenes all played out very earnestly on Christian's side/were portrayed like that by Thore )

Again, I fully agree that triangles with women are boring. I just think that in the case of these two particular characters it would be fair game considering their history.

Not that it couldn't still be insultive. If for example the storyline came across as trying to sell that women are just better than men. Or that even for bi people women can give you something that men can't and that going het is the better choice.

But no, in itself, it would not be a rewriting of sexualities. It would just be lazy and boring.

[lolaruns]

I can't speak for Christian, but in the case of Ulli the writers openly said that they had this character, good actor, but the love story he was in didn't really connect with the audience as much as they had anticipated, so they decided to make the character more interesting by moving him in a new direction and making him gay.

And quite frankly, I'm pretty sure that it was the same thing with Christian. Remember, the Nico/Christian/Coco triangle played out for pretty much a whole year. And based on what I have seen from the scenes there, it seems pretty obvious to me that Thore played it as being seriously in love with them (particularly in the getting to know you scenes with Coco).

It's possible that the writers wanted to do a gay storyline and then looked around which character might be most useful and then decided on Christian (though personally, Constantin would strike me as an even more obvious choice, considering how unlucky he has been with the women compared to Christian who after all had two relatively stable longterm relationships).

You also have Thore's words from the Giga interview about how the writers approach one in a really friendly manner about the new storyline and how you don't really have much of a choice about whether you want it or not.

[scifimlb]

well i was trying to get off that storyline of a triangle with a woman,....to try and come up with some other storylines alternates if u will then what we have had....instead of having another nuke disaster...ameera could have been done better...not making her fall in love with noah and make her some evil bitch from hell....she could have been supportive of nuke...have other drama elsewhere....like a boyfriend hidden from the ICE....
then there is the mcdean disaster from hollyoaks....he never identified as gay or even bi...just in love with john-paul....implication he would be straight otherwise.
as for ollian.....yes i understand everybody's point....it would be so easy for either christian or olli to have an affair with another woman....but i feel ollian deserves so much more than that...and there is so much more that can be done here.

[lolaruns]

Again, I think it's completely possible that the character was not originally ever intended to be gay. Like in the case of Ulli
. Another example is Carla's ex-wife Susanne. She was a character many years ago, had love story, affairs, triangles, marriages, etc. Then she was written off. Many years later they brought her back.

Now here the actress obviously knew that she was gonna play gay since her first storyline was to fall in love with Carla. Yet at the same time, it's pretty obvious that when the character was created many years earlier with different writers they didn't plan her as a lesbian (her having no less than 7 different relationships with guys [husbands, affairs, etc]).

Whether people like it or not VL seems to think that writing a gay storyline is a completely acceptable method to spice up a character.

It should also be noted that the layout for Christian's character changed quite a bit. In the beginning he was this sensitive nature boy who wanted nothing more than open his own sport equipment job. And who connected so deeply with Coco because zomg he loves nature so much and he loves letters! Christian wasn't even much of a jock back then. (remember really early in the Christian and Olli storyline where Christian doesn't want to go to the gym and later explains to Olli that it's because he actually doesn't like indoor sports [the old Christian always dragged his girlfriends hiking and mountain biking and camping]; and now suddenly boxing is his new never mentioned before dream?)

Again, nobody knows the exact mind of the writers. What exactly they were thinking when they created a character. Still, the whole Nico/Coco storyline strikes me as a very straight forward deal, got decent airtime and publicity and front burner status. I don't get the impression that they spent an entire year on that while meaning something else.

Now if we had the writers we could ask if maybe they did see Christian as a guy who loves hanging out in nature and having guy friends more than he loves romance with women (though it seems to me that the way early Christian and Coco was written was fairly sappy) or whose main emotional thing is that he needs to find himself in connection to his father and his brother. Particularly if the rumors about the headwriter being gay are true, maybe he just saw potential in some characters or enjoyed giving certain characters certain edges. Of course, my biggest secret question would be the funny coincidence of then they turned Ulli gay and wrote a boyfriend for him the gay boyfriend was named Tom. Which incidentally is also the name of the headwriter ;D Though, even though he mentions being involved in the storyline back then, it should be noted that he wasn't headwriter back then, so it probably wasn't within his power anyway; but the coincidence still amuses me

Still, my first gut reaction interpretation is that they probably hired Thore to be the new hot teenage heartthrob for their teenie storyline, except that back then his acting was really wooden and the story was boring and people didn't care for his character. But hey, maybe the writers thought that he was a cute guy and they didn't want to let him go, so they gave his character a new direction because the old one hadn't worked out.

not making her fall in love with noah and make her some evil bitch from hell....she could have been supportive of nuke...have other drama elsewhere....like a boyfriend hidden from the ICE....

But... isn't that pretty much the way she ended up being? A friendly character, who really is an innocent victim of Noah's father and who withdraws gracefully telling Luke and Noah that they should be together? And the show was extremely consistent of making it obvious that Noah never had any sexual interest in her even for a second.

[mikey]

I agree the triangle storyline is a tired plot device and don't really think it's where the writers should go (except one direction, which I mention below). However, I really think there is something to be explored in Christian's sexuality since I have always seen this is as a "I simply fell in love" story, rather than an "OMG I'm gay!" story.

I see three longterm possibilities to this storyline (I don't read spoilers so I have no idea what's coming up...)

1. Christian breaks up with Olli because Olli has no ambition of his own and only hangs around Christian which makes him feel smothered. This allows Christian to explore his feelings: was Olli a one-time thing or does he like men in general? (Lame, I don’t like it, but it’s plausible, it keeps our kiddies alive, and gives future possibility – Hey maybe it would be like a Kevin-Scotty on-again-off-again relationship that ends in marriage? I’d stick around for that storyline!)

2. Christian gets really successful at boxing and moves to a bigger city to continue his career. Olli goes with him. (Sucks for the viewers, but it fits with the current storyline and at least it’s a happy ending.)

3. My choice: Coco returns from Goa, pregnant. Her, Christian, and Olli agree to become a “family” and raise the child together. (It's very A Home at the End of the World and very soapy, but at least it brings the triangle full circle in a compelling storytelling type of way, plus it plays to the “forbidden love” element. Just think: Cocollian! I think I have to write this as a fanfic now ;D)

[sheepiefarm]

Jun 18, 2008 17:58:26 GMT -5 mikey said:

3. My choice: Coco returns from Goa, pregnant. Her, Christian, and Olli agree to become a “family” and raise the child together. (It's very A Home at the End of the World and very soapy, but at least it brings the triangle full circle in a compelling storytelling type of way, plus it plays to the “forbidden love” element. Just think: Cocollian! I think I have to write this as a fanfic now ;D)

OMG - I hate it and love it at the same time

My added bit - We then discover that Olli actually slept with Coco and now she doesn't know which one is the father..........

[lolaruns]

I really, really, really hate soap kids. I hated it both when they gave Tom the baby storyline and Carla and Susanne the baby storyline. Blegh.

That said, it's not unheard for VL for people to argue and break up over mundane things. Tom and Ulli grew distant when Tom spent too much time at work as a doctor and Ulli felt so neglected that he almost cheated. And then they broke up because Ulli got a job offer in another city and Tom couldn't follow. Tom and Olli broke up because they had just grown apart and wanted different things out of life (Tom wanted settling down, getting married, adopting a kid, Olli was like... ewwwww!).

[pepe1958]

I was just thinking of the Coco returning from Goa with Christian's love child as a possible storyline, too.

Now, I don't know if this is the appropriate place to write this, but if I were writing VL, and based on the spoilers we (think we) know coming in August, I would write this: Olli shows up at Christian's bout with Axel just in time to inspire him to defeat Axel; in a celebratory mood, Christian kisses Olli in the ring, thus outing himself to the world; Axel, disgraced by not only having lost the bout, but now discovering he's lost the bout to a gay man, rushes over to give Christian a sucker-punch, but instead hits Olli, who falls to the floor unconcious...Christian stays with Olli at the hospital until he emerges from his coma--now, no temparalysis like ATWT, Olli is fine...but just at the moment Coco returns with a child she claims is Christian's...as Christian spends time with his child and Coco, it makes Olli jealous...fortunately, Coco announces that she's returning to Goa but decides to leave the child behind with Christian, making Christian and Olli daddies...which, based on the information provided by Lola above, creates a strain between Christian and Olli, who is hesitant to become a father.

Now, I'm not entirely familiar with the VL universe...is Coco related to any other characters on the show?

[lolaruns]

No, to my knowledge Coco, like Judith is one of those characters who isn't related to anybody. That said, I don't think that VL is very desperate to rush into a baby storyline simply because it already has two infants on the show (Sophia aka Carla and Lars' kid and Hannes aka Ansgar and Tanja's kid) and having children on the show is infamously a huge bitch for production because of various child labor laws.

Besides, do all gay couples have to go into parenting storylines eventually? It just seems really cheap.

[mikey]

I wansn't thinking about the kid, so much as the dynamic of an actual family/threesome (not a triangle) that Christian, Olli and Coco would form, and I was totally ripping off A Home at the End of the World which is one of my favourite books.

[lolaruns]

I'm not saying VL wouldn't do it, but it doesn't feel emotionally plausible to me. It just seems too early for this type of plot. Sure, Tom and Olli triangled with Ulli very early in the relationship, but then again the main reason why they were created was to make this triangle possible in the first place.

[mikey]

Oh ya, totally too early in that particular relationship. Plus, as you say, kids in soaps is always bad news, what with the rampant spread of SORAS and all...

[pepe1958]

You're probably right, Lola; one of the major complaints for American viewers of ATWT are the constant baby storylines that occur--the Jennifer/Gwen baby switch, both Emily and Meg miscarrying Paul's children, the whole Sofie pregnancy/adoption débacle, etc.

As I say, I only know VL from the Ollian scenes, which kind of limits my imagination on how to create storylines for them (in fact, the character of Rebecca, Gregor's new love interest, seems to be somehow related to some other family on the show, but I still haven't figured that out).

[lolaruns]

VL doesn't do SORAS. Never has. Instead they usually bring on grown up children from affairs or siblings, cousins etc. Mostly they don't need SORAS because as a rule of thumb your average VL family is only around for about 5 years or so before the entire family is phased out and replaced by a new one.

The Anstettens were replaced by the Beyerbachs (and the Sternecks) who were replaced by the Lahnsteins who are currently in the process of being replaced by the Lahnsteins 2.0. The sole Anstetten who is still around is Tanja and there isn't a single Beyerbach around anymore. The "Johannes" strand of the Lahnstein family seems to be in the process of being phased out and being replaced by the Deganhart/Sebastian strand.

Hence, no need for SORAS, because they just write out the characters and write in a new set of characters who already have children in the right age group.

As I say, I only know VL from the Ollian scenes, which kind of limits my imagination on how to create storylines for them (in fact, the character of Rebecca, Gregor's new love interest, seems to be somehow related to some other family on the show, but I still haven't figured that out).

Rebecca is the sister of Sebastian who you might remember from the quiz night episode. Sebastian is Lydia's boyfriend. Lydia is Fabian's sister. Sebastian and Rebecca consider Adrian their foster father and he is the biological father of Constantin and Leonard.

Which makes the whole thing complicated becuase Constantin and Leonard are halfsiblings to the Lahnsteins (Ansgar&Carla) via their mother. The Lahnsteins are cousins to Sebastian and Rebecca via their father. And Sarah is their half sister via their father (so she's also a cousin to Sebastian and Rebecca, but not related biologically to Leonard and Constantin).

[pepe1958]

That's quite fascinating; American soaps retain core families throughout the run of the program; on ATWT, for example, the Hughes family has been present in Oakdale since day 1 (1956), the Stewarts since the 1960s and the Snyders since the 1980s.

[pepe1958]

Ok, so, wait, Sarah--Gregor's ex-wife--is both half-sister AND cousin to Rebecca?? Or did I mis-read?

[mikey]

I didn't know that about VL, lolaruns. I actually really like that. If the families keep rotating, you always get new characters. It sucks for the viewer who gets attached to characters, but better for the health of the show, and the imaginations of the writers.

I only have to watch Y&R once every 5 years to know that Victor and Nikki are once again about to get married and/or divorced. And I can't count the children I've seen born and are now older than me.

[lolaruns]

It's just a different mindset.

The only two characters who have been around since the show premiered in 1995 are Arno and Charlie. Families are constantly replaced by others if they have done their job.

It's definitely a matter of taste if you would rather have the familiarity of seeing the same faces or if you keep the stories from becoming too incestuous by just unflinchingly writing off and killing off charactres and writing in new ones.

For example, the current Brandners (father Matthias, mother Katja, son Fabian, daughter Lydia as well as mentioned but still off screen son David) just arrived as a full package last fall. Just said "Hi" they were here to support Arno and have been having full storylines ever since.

When they run out of characters they just spawn another brother or sister or cousin at boarding school. (for example Sebastian and Rebecca mentioned "the twins" and the Brandner's mentioned "David who is studying in Australia") I'm sure if they ever felt like it they would just have a dozen Mann cousins show up.

Ok, so, wait, Sarah--Gregor's ex-wife--is both half-sister AND cousin to Rebecca?? Or did I mis-read?

Nono, she is a cousin to Rebecca and a half-sister to Carla and Ansgar. The father of Rebecca and Sebastian was the brother of the old count Lahnstein who in turn had an affair with a maid which spawned Sarah.

[mikey]

Jun 22, 2008 0:30:38 GMT -5 lolaruns said:

When they run out of characters they just spawn another brother or sister or cousin at boarding school. (for example Sebastian and Rebecca mentioned "the twins" and the Brandner's mentioned "David who is studying in Australia") I'm sure if they ever felt like it they would just have a dozen Mann cousins show up.

If they look like Christian or Gregor, bring them on! ;D