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Post by teachgirl on May 12, 2012 13:08:54 GMT -5
To me it looked like he wanted to show Andi his reason for not going swimming with him, which was Rebecca doing something "stupid". It was not about Andi not being able to swim because of Marbecca. The whole panning between the dance and the guys was of course supposed that Andi was turned on but defintely not Christian. We could clearly seen his worried face and heard him saying "oh oh" in a concerned way. Would he really say "Hey Andi you will get a boner watching this" only to one second later react the way he did to the dancing? The point was maybe to show the viewers that guys get turned on by lesbians but also through Christian that this was a bad thing to do for Rebecca. Even if Andi and Emilio have the hots for lesbians and that was the tone of the ep, Christian certainly didn´t contribute to that given his behaviour. Nothing he did made him look sleazy. I agree that Christian did not look sleazy; the line may have been intended that way, but I didn't get any kind of sleazy impression from Thore's performance. If the panning back and forth between the dance and the guys, and line itself, were meant to convey it, however, then shame on the writers and director, not on Christian. I also have to question what they are doing with Andi's character. He just went through a panic about turning thirty and lost a potential friend (that new waitress) because of his immature behavior; now here his behavior is parallel not to Christian's more mature attitude, but to Emilio's. Was there any point at all to his crisis, other than to make him continue to act like a boorish teenager?
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Post by lolaruns on May 12, 2012 13:23:27 GMT -5
Errr, that was my point? About not liking the tone of these episodes in general? They made the connection explict also in the scene where Tristan tells Marlene that seeing her dance with Rebecca made him want to take her and they did something similar in a previous week where looking at the (completely tasteful) pictures Rebecca drew of Marlene made Tristan all hot and bothered. It's just creepy. And it just seems like they are constantly widening the circle of characters who act like that. First it was just Daniel with his Jessica/Helena fantasies and now Andi is getting just like that. Which makes it seem like the show either has a really low opinon of men or a lesbians or both. Sure, many men find women kissing attractive. Maybe it's even more exciting if it's an actual acquaintance. But really, in a time where one can get easily accessible porn everywhere, why would guys act this idiotic? Andi really must have it bad
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 12, 2012 13:27:18 GMT -5
Besides, how was he to know that pointed out what was happening on the dance floor would get Andi going. He was bothered by the whole thing. Or if he was excited by the dancing, why was he trying to keep her from going back out later. He would have just sat back and enjoyed the additional show.
I agree that the point was to make Emillo/Andi look like fools getting excited by the girls, but they didn't know what was underneath it all and thought it was all in fun, while Christian did know the problems that the would cause and wanted to keep it from going to far. Look at the look on his face in the last cap. He's obviously worried about the kiss, while Emillo/Andi are there cheering them on.
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Post by angelarose on May 12, 2012 13:32:16 GMT -5
The tone of the episode may have had an element of the guys thinking the girls dancing was hot, but not as far as Christian was concerned, none of his other lines or expressions conveyed that, nor did his tone. The common thread throughout was Christian trying to get Rebecca away from Marlene and save her from herself, it doesn't make sense for him to suddenly be excited or turned on by their dancing when he knows about Rebecca's feelings and given all the other things he said and did in the episode. And he didn't think swimming was inappropriate for the tone of the party, or for others at the party, but for him because he had more important things to do, keep an eye on Rebecca, than to go swimming at that moment. Same with the dancing, it wasn't inappropriate for the tone of the party but for Rebecca given her feelings, and even if Andi doesn't know this he could just assume Christian is being protective of Rebecca and not wanting her to get too carried away with her brother's girlfriend, or do something to embarrass herself because she's his friend, not because it necessarily would be frowned upon by the other partygoers. The others may have thought the dancing was "awesome" throughout the episode, but that doesn't mean Christian, who was the voice of reason throughout and who did nothing but try to put a stop to Rebecca's behavior and get her away from the situation, both at the club and at her place, thought it was awesome as well. It just doesn't fit with his behavior in the rest of the episode. The point is not that whether he was turned on himself. IMO to me it looked like he was sure Andi would think it was hot and that's why it would be embarassing for Andi. Only that Andi hadn't even seen it yet before Christian had pointed it out to him. To me that contributed to the whole "hey look, it's lesbians, go and gape at them" mood. And it was amplified by them constantly panning between the dance and the guys looking at them. If the point was to signal danger/worry to the viewer, like we should think that this was a bad thing that should be stopped there would have been a music cue for that. Instead Andi came, invited Christian, Christian said it wasn't good to wear trunks, Andi looked at him at to ask why and as a reason Christian nodded at Marbecca as the reason. Why are Marbecca a reason for Andi not to go swimming when both swimming and dancing are appropriate in the context and Andi didn't know that Marbecca dancing was a bad thing (instead he enjoyed enthusiastically and later made the situation worse by requesting the Marbecca kiss). Again to me it was part of the overall theme of the episode that they were hammering home "Haha, lesbians give guys boners, haha". And for that it doesn't matter whether Christian had one himself. He was still part (on the writers' side) of delivering that message to the viewer. That interpretation just doesn't fit with everything else Christian said and did in the episode. I don't think Christian was saying now wasn't the time for swimming trunks in the literal sense because they, the tight fitting swimming trunks, would be embarrassing (for Andi or him), but that now wasn't the time for swimming (for him) because he himself didn't have time for fooling around because he was keeping an eye on Rebecca. Thus I don't think Christian pointing out the girls dancing was meant to invite Andi to ogle them or was meant in a "hey, look at the hot lesbian dancing' way, and to show Andi why he doesn't want to be wearing swimming trunks, because he'd be turned on and would be embarrassed, but to point out to Andi why he was saying he had no time for swimming. And I don't even think Christian was saying Andi shouldn't go swimming, but that it wasn't the right time for he himself to go swimming and he gestured in the direction of the girls to show Andi why he was saying that. And I don't necessarily think there needs to be music to signal to the viewer that Christian was worried, it was quite obvious from his behavior, nor do I think there not being any means that wasn't the intention or wasn't what Christian meant with his comment. I'm quite sure the show was exploiting the 'two girls dancing is hot' element, but that doesn't mean Christian was a part of exploiting that element. Yes, it was a theme of the episode that the girls dancing was hot, but it's a matter of opinion as to whether Christian was a part of delivering that message (on the writers part) to the viewer, and it really requires an interpretation of this one line as being Christian implying they/Andi would be turned on by the dancing and thus shouldn't wear swimming trunks, in order to include him as part of delivering that message, as nothing else he said or did throughout the episode was used to convey that message. And I just don't buy that interpretation of that line, nor do I believe it was intended that way by the writers. If anything, I think Christian was being shown to be the level-headed one, the voice of reason in the episode, the only one NOT getting caught up in the whole idea of it being hot because he understood the gravity of the situation given Rebecca's feelings and was trying to nip things in the bud before they got out of hand, while everyone else was fooling around or taking the situation lightly (both at the club and at Rebecca's by encouraging the kiss) either because they were carried away, in Rebecca's case, or because they were not aware of the situation being more serious because they were in the dark about Rebecca's feelings. To interpret that one line to have had a negative connotation just doesn't fly with the way Christian was behaving for the rest of the episode, and even if the implication was that he wasn't referring to himself but Andi/others being turned on (which I also don't believe was the intention), it still just doesn't make sense for him to have been being glib or flippant in that moment when he was taking everything else seriously.
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Post by teachgirl on May 12, 2012 13:58:31 GMT -5
Errr, that was my point? About not liking the tone of these episodes in general? Yes, I understood that was your point. I was agreeing with it. I have often pointed out how sexist this show can be; many of Christian's interactions with Theresa, for example, were written in a way that was completely out of character for Christian, and very distasteful to watch, and yet completely consistent with with the objectification of women often shown in other storylines. The subtle, and, in this case, not so subtle mockery of gays and lesbians is rather surprising for a show that prides itself on showing gay and lesbian relationships. I will wait and see how they develop the Marbecca storyline before I completely slam them, however.
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Post by sonia38 on May 12, 2012 14:37:52 GMT -5
If dancing was a crime, all these people would be put in jail, what a bunch of horrible dancers.
Christian was being a real friend to Rebecca, I liked that. Why was Emilo and Kim even included in this scene anyway, they seem to out of place. Rebecca and Marlene standing there kissing with this look of lust on both thier faces and Tristan suspects nothing...
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 12, 2012 14:51:02 GMT -5
True. I guess Andi has become tight with the teen crowd. Going clubbing with Emillo and having heart to hearts with Timo.
Kim is Marlene's sister and they are at the castle, so it makes since to invite them to a little after party if you think about it. Just glad Timo/Leonie weren't there.
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bero
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Post by bero on May 14, 2012 6:37:00 GMT -5
Since I am not an European, Latin nor North American, I have to say that I see the aspect raised here about objectifying women or lack of respect of gays, differently. I sure hope I could enrich the discussion by that.
Europeans including Germans tend to be more of "art as brutal and free as life" not of "art as a revised version of life". Therefore I view the objectification of some 'groups' as a part of the boldness I admire; cliches are not fought, they are depicted and their deconstruction is depicted, too. it's an open, ongoing argument that never reaches a conclusive point that would overtly favor one concept over the other.
In my country TV shows are quite horrible in portraying sensitive issues. I mean I see how sexist, forced, and borderline didactic they can be, yet they never seem aware they are making a charade out of it not even remotely addressing it. So I developed a perspective about that, which is of appreciating proper provocation and distinguishing them. to be ready for the next storyline that may offend me simply because it's well done to the point it provokes and pleases at the same time. This can be most inspiring. and juxtaposing it to other works which tried to do the same but fails, makes me realize what VL is doing is working, and working fine.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 21, 2012 7:45:48 GMT -5
Scenes with Christian from 7-9 May, with captions.
Scenes with Christian from 10-11 May, with captions.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 21, 2012 7:47:24 GMT -5
After watching the tranlastions, I have to agree that Christian was completely in protection mode for Rebecca and the swimsuit comment was to say that it wasn't a time for that because of what Rebecca was up to. He had a very stern look on his face the whole time and the then when the dance was over he again tried to get her to leave.
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