Trish
Senior Member
Posts: 9,631
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Post by Trish on Oct 28, 2011 13:53:28 GMT -5
Jan/Julia just told Leonie/Timo that they are bother and sister, which makes them cousins. Why they never told them before is beyond me. I still have no clue what the big secret is. Telling people you are brother and sister is nothing to be ashamed of, telling them you are in love with each other is different.
Majorca is a bore and them making this into some big tragedy is just stupid, because there's no logical reason that the situation couldn't have been avoided. They knew that Leonie was hanging around with Timo/Emillo, but they assumed that she would fall for Emillo since he was so into into her I guess, but why would you do that, espcially knowing your own situation. It's a dumb primce with a dumb outcome and I could care less about it.
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silviam11
Junior Member
Love the dimples! And the smile!
Posts: 376
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Post by silviam11 on Oct 28, 2011 13:54:10 GMT -5
Is there another incest thing going on in Majorca. I understand a word but sometime you since something. Yes. Timo and Leoni started dating without knowing that their parents are twins, so they're cousins
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Post by teachgirl on Oct 28, 2011 13:57:33 GMT -5
What is with Dana. She wins the stupid race and she needed Olli to tell her that Chris was a part of it. She lucky she wised up on she was going back on my list of people not like. Olli defending Christian to her was the best part of the episode (second best: Olli playing the broom ;D.). If her stubborness allowed us to see Olli doing that, I'm willing to cut her some slack.
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silviam11
Junior Member
Love the dimples! And the smile!
Posts: 376
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Post by silviam11 on Oct 28, 2011 14:00:25 GMT -5
Jan/Julia just told Leonie/Timo that they are bother and sister, which makes them cousins. Why they never told them before is beyond me. I still have no clue what the big secret is. Telling people you are brother and sister is nothing to be ashamed of, telling them you are in love with each other is different. Majorca is a bore and them making this into some big tragedy is just stupid, because there's no logical reason that the situation couldn't have been avoided. They knew that Leonie was hanging around with Timo/Emillo, but they assumed that she would fall for Emillo since he was so into into her I guess, but why would you do that, espcially knowing your own situation. It's a dumb primce with a dumb outcome and I could care less about it. Exactely! Just booooooooring!
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Post by dalphine on Oct 28, 2011 14:22:55 GMT -5
I'm really tired of the Majoca part of VL. To me it just doesn't mix well. I'm not feeling it at all. JMO
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robin1
Junior Member
Posts: 415
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Post by robin1 on Oct 28, 2011 14:55:26 GMT -5
Is there another incest thing going on in Majorca. I understand a word but sometime you since something. Yes. Timo and Leoni started dating without knowing that their parents are twins, so they're cousins but it not forbidden to fuck with ur cousin... so i dont understand where's the problem for jan and julia?? maybe she's jealous that timo and leonie can do it with each other... stupid drama... our chrolli were so cute! great scenes like in the good old times! so nice to see olli supporting chris and his work!
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Trish
Senior Member
Posts: 9,631
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Post by Trish on Oct 28, 2011 14:58:02 GMT -5
Me either. I thought when they origianlly started talking about it there was going to be a lot of mixing with S/ls, but there hasn't really been any of that. No one talks about the people in Germany and no one in Germany talk about the people in Majorca. They are two seperate soaps and the fact that they even look different drives that home even more.
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robin1
Junior Member
Posts: 415
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Post by robin1 on Oct 28, 2011 15:09:45 GMT -5
right twatts, im really happy when it's over...
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silviam11
Junior Member
Love the dimples! And the smile!
Posts: 376
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Post by silviam11 on Oct 28, 2011 15:23:34 GMT -5
but it not forbidden to fuck with ur cousin... so i dont understand where's the problem for jan and julia?? maybe she's jealous that timo and leonie can do it with each other... stupid drama... You're right, robin. It's not forbidden to f*** your cousin and I even know a a happily married couple of cousins! They just like to find a reason for drama in everything! If there isn't any, they try to find hair on eggs
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 17:37:53 GMT -5
Say what?? It is not forbidden to fuck your 1st cousin?? Ok I dont know in which culture this stands true however I am pretty sure that there is no major religion in the world today to allow marriage with your 1st cousin.Leaving aside religion for which I dont give a damn , I am positive that in the case of off springs between 1st cousins the risk of disabilities remains extremely high,plus I doubt that legally you could go on and marry your 1st cousin.
What I know is that from 2nd cousins onward you are free to marry etc...
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Post by lolaruns on Oct 28, 2011 17:46:07 GMT -5
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 18:12:00 GMT -5
depends on how you define ''cousin'' I know for a fact the 1st cousin marriage is not allowed in the Christian Orthodox faith ,while they allow 2nd cousins marriage. Its legal status is unknown to me.I never had intention to marry any of my first cousins. Probably we need to do research on which countries allow 1st cousin marriage.The UK is one of them I know that for a fact since the Indian and Pakistani communities demanded this. Plus the map is crap.They have Greece down as allowing cousin marriage,which is defo not true.
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jos87
Full Member
Posts: 2,297
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Post by jos87 on Oct 28, 2011 18:18:17 GMT -5
In Italy is legal the marriage between first cousins . I know a couple of them and ,even tough the risk of disabilities in the children is high, their children are healthy.And from the maps posted by lolaruns we can see than a great number of countries allow this kind of marriage.And from my point of view i don't find strange a marriage between first cousins. It's sure that they have to consider all the possible risk about eventual children but i don't find scandalous this union. The incest (like Jan and Julia,talking about VL),instead,in my eyes is something horrible.
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 18:21:06 GMT -5
.And from my point of view i don't find strange a marriage between first cousins. I TOTALLY find this weird given that I grew up with all my 3 first cousins.We were practically raised together.Entertaining the idea of marrying one of my cousins is like thinking of jumping from the Empire State Building at best!
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Post by lolaruns on Oct 28, 2011 18:29:07 GMT -5
Like the article said, Catholics allow 2nd cousins, but do offer dispensations for first cousins and supposedly most protestant denominations allow 1st cousins.
I have no desire to marry my cousins either and would find it pretty weird if any of them got married to one of the others, but to me it seems pretty obvious that it's a-ok in a lot of cultures, including western ones.
I also agree with the people say that the "oh, no, there will be deformed babies" excuse is crap. There have been a lot of articles that say that statistically cousin marriages are not any more likely to produce handicapped children. Incest sex doesn't magically cause mutations to happen. Incest sex means that in families that already have genetic damage that damage is more likey to continue being there. But genes ending up in bad combinations (eg both partners having the same genetic disease or having genetic damages that feed into each other) can happen with non related couples just as much.
So obviously one cousin marriage isn't gonna bring the world down if everybody around still finds regular partners. It gets more problematic if all family members do that over several generations (though even there it doesn't always lead to bad genes. I read a book on the Mormons in the USA that mentions that there was a population that had intermarried for many generations and therefore were particularly useful for some genetic study and they were actually above average healthy, apparently because the orignal stock was very healthy).
Personally I don't think that cousin marriage is anything that should be encouraged in real life, but mostly "eh, would be weird" reasons, not because it is really horrible.
That said, I don't get the people (like some of the German fans) who compolain that this is a silly and constructed obstacle. I think that while being cousins shouldn't necessarily be the hugest hurdle, I also think that it is a totally legitimate turnoff. If Timo isn't as into it anymore now that he know about all the lies and all the relations, I think that's totally normal (at the same time, I don't think that Leonie is somehow a bad or in-understandable person just because she wants to continue things despite the new knowledge).
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 18:29:55 GMT -5
Oh and here is the extract for Catholicism from Wiki
In Roman Catholicism, all marriages more distant than first-cousin marriages are allowed, and first-cousin marriages can be contracted with a dispensation
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jos87
Full Member
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Post by jos87 on Oct 28, 2011 18:31:47 GMT -5
.And from my point of view i don't find strange a marriage between first cousins. I TOTALLY find this weird given that I grew up with all my 3 first cousins.We were practically raised together.Entertaining the idea of marrying one of my cousins is like thinking of jumping from the Empire State Building at best! infact this is your point of view and is acceptable. But i agree with this kind marriage even if i can't imagine to marry one of my cousin.But if someone else want do it,why not ,if it is legal? Now, i read on internet,that in my country (Italy)the marriage between 2 first cousins is legal but for the religious marriage between first cousins you have to obtain ,from the bishop ,a dispensation for marriage to be valid.This is for information. Returning to VL i can't understand why Jan and Julia have not said before ,to Timo and Leonie,that they are brother and sister. I understand that their sick love relationship is something to be hide,but i don't understand why they hide the reality about their kinship.Another VL's secret ;D I can't wait to see my boys in today episode.
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 18:34:40 GMT -5
Come on guys in terms of VL storyline the topic of first cousin marriage is indeed a taboo in society ,west included.See what my gut reaction was.
Anyway I am pretty sure that it is not the ''ideal'' to marry your first cousin in most Christian denominations especially if you grew up with them.In Christian Orthodox religion (which means whole of Russia as well,apart from Greece,Bulgaria,Romania etc) it is defo not allowed to marry your first cousin.
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Post by lolaruns on Oct 28, 2011 18:37:10 GMT -5
Oh and here is the extract for Catholicism from Wiki In Roman Catholicism, all marriages more distant than first-cousin marriages are allowed, and first-cousin marriages can be contracted with a dispensation As a Catholic I have always felt that morally dispensations are full of shit. If a dispensation is possible to me that is equal to saying that it isn't bad. If it was that bad, then no dispensation should be possible. You can't damn something you are willing to give a dispensation for (and as mentioned, it is not that hard to get). I actually think that for a change that is actually a quite practical approach. To me it is equal to saying that it's ok occasionally, but if suddenly the entire population of a city all wanted to cousin marriage at the same time the church could say "whoa, stop, bad idea, do something else". I'm down with the idea that those relationships are a bit more atypical and deserve a bit more double checking (like ensuring that there was no pressure or abuse or people being forced into it). So you reserve the right to say no, but not all cases are a no. Yeah, but there are also plenty of people who have the gut reaction of "Whatever" or "What a bunch of pointless hoopla about nothing". What makes one gut reaction superior to another in "proving" anything. (not to mention there is a wide difference between "it is an ideal" and "it's not the end of the world/it's not absolutely horrible") Personally, I don't think that Leonie and Timo should get together but that has more to do with the fact that: - They are boring - Most of the time Timo doesn't look like he is all that into it. He seems like there are a ton of things that matter much more to him than Leonie, like fighting with his parents for example - They are just kids. Just because they date now doesn't mean that they would make a good couple on the long run
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joanna
Senior Member
Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
Posts: 8,547
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Post by joanna on Oct 28, 2011 18:43:30 GMT -5
Okay, folks, this thread isn't really on topic anymore....
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 18:44:24 GMT -5
But lola I am speaking for my self based on my experience with my cousins.I am merely saying that I would prefer to have a bullet planted on my chest than to marry any of them.On the other hand if it is something that two cousins want yes by all means go ahead.I just wouldnt.
So it is obvious that the taboo issue in terms of western society accepting it or not is there THUS the VL storyline is within its limits as ''forbidden love''
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Post by lolaruns on Oct 28, 2011 19:01:18 GMT -5
Yes, but VL sells a lot of things as forbidden love that aren't strictly morally or legally forbidden. Like Dana stealing Marlene's husband or going after your best friend's crush. That's the beauty of the VL storylines, that in most cases there will be people who sympathize and also people who say that "Oh, please, how lame, nobody cares" (for example with teacher/student or priest/girl couples or same-sex couples). I feel the same way about my cousins. But I can understand why some people might not feel the same way. Especially in a case like Leonie and Timo where they never grew up together, only met each other when they were 17, don't even have a relationship to each other's parents. (personally I tend to think if I met a cousin only now I also wouldn't want to hook up with him, it would still be weird to me, but again, if other people don't have that drive, why not; I also "get" it in some of those historical novels (like let's say Jane Austen time) where I get the impression that sane couplings had a higher chance to exist between cousins, because at least there was a chance that the people in question would have met each other and interacted rather than just meeting each other in very stilted and distant courting rituals; ) But like I said, my main reaction to Timo/Leonie is a big yawn rather than horror and disgust. Too bad that they are probably one of the chosen couples. I would rather see more of Emilio with either of them. That said, I would find it weird if BOTH Timo/Leonie AND Jan/Julia got together. I felt the same way on Gossip Girl where I understood when Dan and Serena broke up because there parents got together even though there there was no blood relation between either the parents or the children. But I could sympathize with the "It's weird" feeling even if there was no real moral or biological imperative for them to break up. But I guess everyone has their own preferences/sometimes odd hangups here On a different subject: I just need to bitch again how one thing that really annoys me is how every character seems to be constantly going on a trip on VL. I think it's part of the cast being too huge, they *constantly* have to find excuses why some characters go off screen (like the New York trip now for Jessica, or Charlie disappearing from the Mallorca storyline to go to some undefined trip, or Marlene going on a mini trip to London). Rather than it coming across as glamourous it reminds me of a puppet game where puppets are constantly being shoved into different drawers and closets.
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joanna
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Former Verbotene Liebe Champion.
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Post by joanna on Oct 28, 2011 19:05:37 GMT -5
This thread is meant to be about this week's episodes of VL, folks...so we've gone really off-topic now...
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Post by Nasos29 on Oct 28, 2011 19:06:23 GMT -5
Exactly this is why I reacted to the generic comment of first cousin coupling or marriage BUT stressed the importance of them not knowing each other.
So in terms of Timo and Leonie and given the big drama from VL I dont mind one bit them being in love.Personally I find the character of Leonie really boring,even in today's episode her look almost made me fall asleep.No chemistry whatsoever with Timo.None
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Post by lolaruns on Oct 28, 2011 19:07:21 GMT -5
This thread is meant to be about this week's episodes of VL, folks...so we've gone really off-topic now... Well both the Leonie/Timo reveal and the invitation to the New York trip happened previsely in these very episodes
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