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Post by moonstruck-me on Jun 10, 2014 17:36:25 GMT -5
yes I agree the only way to show JD is to stop watching Yeah, if you live in the US. Can't really do anything from where I'm from... Wish I could though.
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Post by kevvoi on Jun 11, 2014 7:35:09 GMT -5
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Post by jjose712 on Jun 12, 2014 9:45:25 GMT -5
TW is a fun horror teen show, it's a guilty pleasure.
The problem is getting the show for what's not. TW receive tons of praise from being gay friendly, and it's maybe gay friendly in the sense that there are gay characters (unfortunately they are token gay characters wich is all kinds of sad for a gay writer). What i find annoying it's the fact that there's no need to tease with storylines that you clearly not want to write. Don't sell the show for what's not.
We have a similar situation with DaVinci's Demon's (of course there are quite big differences on both shows), the writer told everywhere about the show and he lie, lie, lie, and it ended backfiring him. Fortunately for Davis, it's the action, the horror and the fun parts what's really important to fans, so the fact that he lie everytime about Danny and Styles is only a small annoyance.
What i don't understand it's the reason of the lie. Frankly i think it would be easy to sell Sterek as a bromance instead of teasing something that never was in Davis mind (and it was basically due to the chemistry between the actors). And Danny, well, people like him, but he always was a small secondary character, so i don't need the reason to tease again and again with more screentime. It's disrespectful for Keahu.
Probably the actor who play the new gay character will end in a similar situation, or maybe he is luckier and will be integrated in the main storyline (the truth is right now, and given what happened in last season Danny should be integrated in the main storyline too, but i doubt it will happen)
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Post by justinate on Jun 15, 2014 3:22:47 GMT -5
I am quite fond of the show but I can't overlook their disappointing treatment of their gay characters. I've little expectation that the new gay kid will be treated any better than Danny. Why is the new gay character again in a peripheral supporting role instead of being in the main group? Four seasons in, after an exodus of several characters (including two main ones), the show was presented with an ideal opening to introduce a main gay character or at least upgrade Danny's role, but they chose (once again) to go for a straight boy.
In a show run by an openly gay man on a network that skews to a younger demographic, I find this situation indefensible. Even Days of Our Lives, whose audience is traditionally seen as older and conservative, gives greater visibility to their gay characters, who are both legacy characters from prominent families. At this advanced stage in their storytelling, Teen Wolf should be boasting two gay main characters ... yet it's still zero.
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Post by sunshine0786 on Jun 16, 2014 21:07:39 GMT -5
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Post by moonstruck-me on Jun 17, 2014 5:53:26 GMT -5
Some of the comments are awesome!
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Post by kevvoi on Jun 23, 2014 20:20:43 GMT -5
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dmagiclight
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Post by dmagiclight on Jun 24, 2014 19:20:17 GMT -5
anyone know If Danny is in season 4
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Post by kevvoi on Jun 25, 2014 15:03:58 GMT -5
New trailer for season 4. No sign of Danny.
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Post by moonstruck-me on Jul 12, 2014 17:52:48 GMT -5
So Danny/Keahu won't be in season 4 at all. What a surprise.........
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Post by alohaTHOR on Jul 12, 2014 20:58:46 GMT -5
Is the new cutie, Liam gay? I remember a scene in the other trailer in which he angrily asked if his friend thought the opposing player was hot. Cuz, I'd be totes fine with a cutie like that
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Post by sunshine0786 on Jul 12, 2014 22:05:08 GMT -5
So Danny/Keahu won't be in season 4 at all. What a surprise......... There was plenty they could have done with Danny. That's the stupidest excuse ever. His last name literally means "night of the full moon." He couldn't have been a descendent of an ancient Hawaiian were family? Or some other hawaiian mythical creature? I'm just making this one up here, but he knew about the werewolves, so he could be a creature that can literally sense werewolves. There could be a whole storyline dedicated to why he tried so hard to steer clear of the werewolf drama, but then ended up being pulled in anyway. That's just crap from off the top of my head. Give me some time to do research on hawaiian myths and I could think of a half decent storyline to give him. What they did to Danny was plan and simple lazy writing. Forgetting the mythological aspect of the show, they could have done more though out to mix him in with the group after Jackson left. They just wanted to keep him the token gay guy, so of course they ran out of things for him. Is the new cutie, Liam gay? I remember a scene in the other trailer in which he angrily asked if his friend thought the opposing player was hot. Cuz, I'd be totes fine with a cutie like that I don't think so. There is supposed to be a new gay character that plays lacrosse, but his name is Mason.
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dalia
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Post by dalia on Jul 13, 2014 0:45:09 GMT -5
some tumblr reaction:
she basically said that in jeff’s eyes Danny was Jackson’s best friend in seasons 1&2 and Ethan’s boyfriend in season 3 and now he doesn’t have anything keeping him
Proving once again that Danny was never meant to be a character in his own right and was merely a token. Not that that should come as a surprise to anyone. Hey, here’s a thought - explaining how he knows about the supernatural world could be the thing “keeping him.” Or just the fact that he’s supposed to still be in high school with the rest of them?? (via suzvoy)
i just couldn't say it any better myself...
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 13, 2014 6:04:23 GMT -5
So basically he never was a character on his own. Absolutely pathetic. People liked the character from the beginning but he just really don't care. He only used Danny to get some promo on gay sites about how inclusive the show was. At least this season Jeff stop lying about how much Danny he is going to offer this season (not never deliver).
If that's the best a gay writer can do with a gay character i fear for Mason's future in this show. He probably will be reduced as well to being someone best friend
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 13, 2014 6:09:03 GMT -5
anyone know If Danny is in season 4 Well, I wonder if the rumoured news (not verified by MTV or the actual PTB from TW) about Danny not being in season 4, will cause as much outrage as the Hochelin actor caused, when he told a fan that he couldn’t sign anything Sterek based at a fan convention?
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 13, 2014 7:30:53 GMT -5
anyone know If Danny is in season 4 Well, I wonder if the rumoured news (not verified by MTV or the actual PTB from TW) about Danny not being in season 4, will cause as much outrage as the Hochelin actor caused, when he told a fan that he couldn’t sign anything Sterek based at a fan convention? Probably not, people take more seriously the fanfiction couples than the real characters. Anyway i blame Jeff of that too, if he was clear about the fact that Sterek was never going to happen (or the fact that Styles bisexuality is only a theoretical one that will never be real) people will remain focused in the fanfiction and will be able to separate it from the real show. Even in a recent interview Tyler Posey was talking about the importance of gay storylines on the show, and one has to wonder if he really believes that (to be honest, my impression is that Posey is not exactly a brilliant mind) or if that's the crap that they are obligued to say. What i find amazing is that a writer (who supposely has a creative mind) is unable to integrate a character that people loved from the beginning in the main storyline. And i even could imagine that a straight writer think that create a token gay was representative enough, but for a gay writer is amazing that he finds that a token gay who merely exist to being other's satellite is some kind of representation. The show wasn't about Danny, but he was there from the beginning, so it would be really easy to make him part of the gang. That happened in a lot of shows, that have supporting characters who appear from time to time, but end being regulars because people like them
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Teen Wolf
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jul 13, 2014 8:52:18 GMT -5
Well, I wonder if the rumoured news (not verified by MTV or the actual PTB from TW) about Danny not being in season 4, will cause as much outrage as the Hochelin actor caused, when he told a fan that he couldn’t sign anything Sterek based at a fan convention? Probably not, people take more seriously the fanfiction couples than the real characters. Anyway i blame Jeff of that too, if he was clear about the fact that Sterek was never going to happen (or the fact that Styles bisexuality is only a theoretical one that will never be real) people will remain focused in the fanfiction and will be able to separate it from the real show.Even in a recent interview Tyler Posey was talking about the importance of gay storylines on the show, and one has to wonder if he really believes that (to be honest, my impression is that Posey is not exactly a brilliant mind) or if that's the crap that they are obligued to say.What i find amazing is that a writer (who supposely has a creative mind) is unable to integrate a character that people loved from the beginning in the main storyline. And i even could imagine that a straight writer think that create a token gay was representative enough, but for a gay writer is amazing that he finds that a token gay who merely exist to being other's satellite is some kind of representation. The show wasn't about Danny, but he was there from the beginning, so it would be really easy to make him part of the gang. That happened in a lot of shows, that have supporting characters who appear from time to time, but end being regulars because people like them Has Jeff Davis ever stated that he thinks or feels that Danny is or was a "representation of real life GLBT" for the show? I just don't feel that the Danny character mattered to his creator as much as he was beloved by the audience. Even then, I still don't think that Danny was that beloved on his own. It was based on who the character was mainly connected to on the show: Jackson and Ethan. Both those characters are gone now, so why continue to carry on the pretense that Danny was vital? The same with Sterek. That issue has created a situation that will sadly, never be fixed and will continue to be the elephant in the room for everyone associated with TW. The actors are constantly in situations (especially at fan conventions) that they cannot be viewed as "mocking" any segment of their fanbase. Posey, the actor that plays Stiles and Hochelin have all said things that didn't sit well with some members of the Sterek fanbase within the past couple of months. It's always at the beginning and end of the new season, that these things cause flare ups. Davis should have never courted the Sterek segment of the fandom (during the first season), because even after 3 years, some of these folks are still waiting on something, that really was never going to happen and some of them will continue to see "signs" in things and interactions between Stiles and Derek that really isn't based on the canon versions on the show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 9:26:18 GMT -5
I think some people see what they want to see. I've never seen any real signs that would point to either Stiles or Derek being gay or bisexual.
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Post by jjose712 on Jul 13, 2014 9:36:11 GMT -5
Danny is a well liked character, there are tons of fanfiction that include Danny, something that generally doesn't happen with a barely there character like him.
I find quite distressing the fact that a show that was destined to young audiences, wich is set in an homophobia free world, is unable to bring a regular gay character in first place, but that's another question.
Jeff Davis made tons of mistakes in interviews and he really deserves the backlash he is getting. I don't feel any pity for him. The actors is a different story in my opinion.
Jeff promised more Danny in every season (well, season 2 and season 3) and he never delivered. Why promise something you are not going to do? i don't understand it. Danny never was a main character, and he knew that people won't stop watching the show if he wasn't there, so why he kept promising more screen time? I really hope he was more sincere with Keahu than he was with fans, because that guy didn't deserve such crap.
The Sterek thing was a calculus mistake. He though he was courting the fandom when he was going to alienate him. Sorry, but i don't buy for a second that the pretty obvious homoerotic subtext was not on purpose, specially when after being aware of the Sterek fandom he continued doing it. Of course Sterek never was a real thing, yes, there was a lot of homoerotic context but Derek and Styles never showed real interest for each other, in fact Derek always treated Styles pretty bad. Let's be serious, there's no way in hell that a show that gives minimum screentime to its gay character make two of its main characters in a gay relationship. Absolutely zero chances. But to be fair, Jeff was ambiguous enough to give the fandom hopes, wich was a big big mistake.
What it's not an invention or wishful thinking is Styles bisexuality, it was hinted from the beginning of the show. Yes, he liked Lydia, but there were tons of Styles actions and questions that bring the topic. Once again Davis was deliverately ambigous in interviews.
We are in 2014, if you don't want to deliver just shut up and simply bring the show. People like it for the funny action with hints of horror, but stop teasing people, because you should know by now, that people doesn't like to be fooled.
Now he will bring another gay character, wich frankly is being described exactly the same way Danny was described at first. Maybe the guy is luckier and his best friend won't leave the show leaving him with nothing more to do. Maybe he is even luckier and Jeff will integrate his character in the main storyline and let the actor go with the panel to comic cons. But i highly doubt it.
It's quite simple, continue to bring to fun and stop pretend that your show is something more than it really is, and stop trying to got praised for something that you don't do. Spartacus was aimed to a main straight male audience, and it didn't have a problem to get gay characters, and gay relationship that were treated exactly the same the straight one. Some people complained, and the creator didn't care a shit. And the creator is a straight man, not a gay one like in this case. This is not a DaVinci's demons case, they are not degaying an historical character, but they are searching for publicity in the wrong places and delivering the wrong messages in my opinion.
The actors are a different story, first of all because they don't have nothing to say in what happened on the show. Hoechlin and O'Brian first mistake was teasing the ship with that video. Of course it was an innocent fun but in the context of the following interviews it was only fuel to the fandom (i think PR should train new actor in how to deal with the fandoms). I don't think the actors should be questioned about fictional couples, it's not their job. Maybe it has sense at the beginning of the show, but not now, when it's pretty obvious that's not going to happen. Anyway, they should be careful to not alienate the fans.
The shows with this kind of following (Supernatural is another example) should stop teasing and treat fans with more respect. In the end, the actors are the ones who suffer more, because they get backlash for something that it's out of their control. Davis in this new round of interviews for the new season seemed to avoid this matters, but it's simply too late for him. He should know better three years ago
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 10:44:37 GMT -5
The shows with this kind of following (Supernatural is another example) should stop teasing and treat fans with more respect. In the end, the actors are the ones who suffer more, because they get backlash for something that it's out of their control. Oh, I don’t know anything really about Teen Wolf, but you’ve just reminded me of something I came across recently that makes me want to play the devil’s advocate a bit. I think the ability of fans to build on their delusions, then turn them into absolute gospel and make absolutely every little completely unrelated thing about them should not be discounted either. Especially when somehow picked up for whatever reason by the media these days as well and when you have some (often straight female) teens on social media crying for queer representation at every turn, sometimes justifiably, and other times, well mostly begging for only the kind of representation that will satisfy them, to the expense of the one that might actually be already on screen, often between two attractive white guys that make them swoon. That’s how I came to be aware of the Supernatural example. After seeing some written comments about an alleged ship, the usually ship-averse viewer that I am happened to ask for an explanation with actual examples, and what I ended up seeing was that there was plenty of concrete proof (videos, interviews, tweets, etc.) dating back years and years that has consistently shown show creators, runners and two main actors stating that the main characters are straight and even that a certain ship (angel/hunter) was purely fanfictional and had nothing to do with what was happening on screen. Sometimes in light terms, other times more seriously. Somehow, it’s all either ignored or chastised by a lot of often entitled, often bullying – yet delusional – fans, all in the name of fighting against homophobia. The one show person that I saw consistent evidence of actually prodding and "baiting" the fans has actually been one of the actors, the one playing the angel, but it looked more to me as joking around on his part, yet he seems well aware of what it does to the fanatical ones. But if it builds his fan base and makes him popular, why not? Lol Somehow, the fans don’t seem to accuse him of queerbaiting. I would guess because it “supports” their views. I even ended up seeing a couple of accounts of some people who were shipping that pairing before even watching the show because of everything that was presented to them as fact, and who, after actually watching the show from beginning, failed to see what the heck that was all about. Seriously, if we’re to argue on that show – of which I saw only few episodes and more clips of pertinent scenes – queerbaiting with occasional jokey allusions regarding that loud ship, what can be said about the persistent on screen allusions between those two brothers? Yet do people really expect the show to get those brothers together romantically? Really? I can’t claim for it to be the same situation in Teen Wolf, because if the creators here actually did promise that something would happen from the beginning, then that’s something else. Still, sure there are always some things done by shows suggestively, but fans are not all always as innocent or as victimized as they claim to be; sometimes they just don’t want to hear what doesn’t fit the world they’ve built. Anyway, that’s my two cents. But what do I know? The most I got out of my venturing into Supernatural was the prettiness of such and such actor/character and the fact that they have some good-natured humor behind the scenes on that show.
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Jul 13, 2014 11:11:15 GMT -5
I see supernatural from season 1 and I am not one of the people who try to find a ship at any cost. About Dean/castiel in my eyes everything started as a joke, more to create homoerotic situations. The same creator of the show said that he enjoyed to created homoerotic situations in his show.And people started to ship it knowing (maybe not all of them obviously) that nothing would really happened between the two characters. But at some point things changed,especially from season 8 where you can find a romantic tone in their relationship. And many people started to ship more this couple. And from the show,at that point knowing that more people started to see the show,who risked to be cancelled in season7, also for this pair, there was no writers or executive producers who said that they were not going there. When people asked on Twitter they said things like "wait and see" "it's up to interpretation", they did an episode this last season making clear that subtext (and Dean/castiel is strong in subtext) is something legittimate, they put in a script for an episode the sentence "I love you" that then was replaced with an "I need you"( right choice for me if you ask);after in one episode of season 9 the former angel(because he became human) had sex with a girl one of the writer said that having sex with a woman don't make you straight; in the previous season there were situation who could have been interpreted as a possible bisexuality for Dean and they never said something to totally deny that,maybe always for their logic of "open to interpetation".Also the actors who in some occasions said that their characters are not gay sometimes play the scene in an ambiguous way and they know to do it (is enough to see the gag reel of the show to see that). So when you do things like that you can't complain to be accused of queerbaiting. And towards supernatural those accuses started to come also from medias. I don't see teen wolf so I can't say how much sterek was just a fan creation or not. I don't know if there was a structure in their relationship or not. I can talk about supernatural cause I saw the show since the beginning and i saw the development of this relationship.i know that this ship will never be canon in text but even though that I can't not blame the writers or the producers for make some people believe that they were going there.and about the actor playing the angel he just say what he really thinks; that if the writer wanted there would be basis for make this pair a couple. And he would be ok with that. Just that.And about Dean/Cas being something only some shippers want to see i can say to you that my str8 brother in law who is watching now season 8 of supernatural,knowing that i saw also the season 9(where there was,to be honest,a change in the way the D/C relationship was told respect season 8,being there not very much in the same scenes),asked me if the writers made them a couple cause he also saw something between the 2 in the way their story is being told in that season (8). I know that this message was not connected to teen wolf but I wanted to reply to macari. And @macari if you want to talk about this subject in private I am here without problem ;)If you don't it's ok but consider this reply not as something against your message but just to give me my point of view about queerbaiting in supernatural (and i am a viewer who is ok with the two characters being just friends,with their profound bond).
I ask the moderator to forgive me for this kinf of OT.It was just to reply to the queerbaiting thing in a show i see.Sorry again
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 11:59:48 GMT -5
No problem, jos87. Believe it or not, every single thing you have mentioned, I have seen, because I really wanted to evaluate this whole thing before taking a step back and getting the gist of it. For sure, there is a bond between the characters of that ship, and I don't think anyone can not see it. But the way it is spun by certain fans is another thing. Of course it's always "open to interpretation", as it should always be. And for every "wait and see" tweet, there are more than 10 less ambiguous statements, past and present, from show runners and vital actors saying it ain't happening. It's about grasping what you feel justifies your view, and that's fine and all. But the real delusion sets in when people demand that a sexual/romantic relationship settles on screen, then accusations of homophobia fly left and right when there's a reminder that on screen, the characters have actually always been straight and everything else is interpretation. I too can interpret whatever look, word or intonation however I want. I have seen a real demand and disturbing campaigning to bring fanfiction or fandom on screen and claims of being victims or bullying if it doesn't happen. That is what's problematic, and no one that points it out should be blamed for it IMO. I repeat my stance though, because for all allusions and evidence of bond in that ship, there's about a million times more for the bond between the brothers for all, not just more recent seasons. But is it queerbaiting and therefore homophobia if it doesn't become romantic on screen as well? This is a supernatural world after all (pun intended ), why should incest be more taboo than a relationship between an angel (that only took on the form of a human and made that body do things way beyond what the human vessel originally consented to by the way) and a human? To me, one still, despite it all, has no real standing for the type of alleged anti-queerbaiting campaigns I saw some of those fans go on about. I continue to say also that that actor, whether sincere or not, is not helping and if he's not labelled as queerbaiter it's because he's seen as a supporter by those who see what they want to see and demand that it happens on screen. If anything, why aren't fans more grateful of the changes in scenarios made in order to make sure that they don't feel queerbaited (anymore)?
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Jul 13, 2014 12:33:03 GMT -5
i will send you a private message cause we are in Teen Wolf topic and not supernatural's one.I repeat i don't know about Teen Wolf and Sterek and queerbaiting but in general i really think they should be clear and stop that.Just my opinion.Some other shows had the balls to do this (once upon a time and the new show dominion). Sorry for the people who wanted so much have a queer rapresentation in teen wolf but didn't have it. @macari i'm sendind you the message.You don't have to reply to it.Just to reply to your last post.And thanks to reply to it,despite our opinions are different.Maybe it's because is 10 years i see this show and i really lived all this thing in first person (obviously the fact that you don't know the show so much doesn't make your opinion less important or valid A last-minute edit:i said that in the message sent to macari but i will sai this here too;Let’s say that maybe the queerbaiting subject is a very hard subject who change from people to people,their way to see things,their way to feel things.And maybe if a lgbt person see the queerbaiting in a show more that a straight person is because some people are tired to see homo/bisex/tran sexuality used not in a serious way but just as a way to attract new viewers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:15:14 GMT -5
I responded in detail, jos87. As I said, I saw enough to form my opinion, but mileages always vary, and that's the bottom line. As for the bigger issue, I maintain that all parties should take responsibility for their part. TPTB may not be all innocent, but neither are certain fans who choose to stick their heads in the sand. TPTB could be more conscious of certain things either (or preferably, like for Supernatural) at the beginning or somewhere down the line, but a lot of fandom stuff mostly can remain where it belongs, in fandom. Or better than demanding to transform a show (that has had some LGBT characters already) into something it was never intended, those fans can demand to create a show with the exact representation they want, which would be more proactive; there should be room for everything.
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jos87
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Post by jos87 on Jul 13, 2014 14:34:21 GMT -5
I responded in detail, jos87. As I said, I saw enough to form my opinion, but mileages always vary, and that's the bottom line. As for the bigger issue, I maintain that all parties should take responsibility for their part. TPTB may not be all innocent, but neither are certain fans who choose to stick their heads in the sand. TPTB could be more conscious of certain things either (or preferably, like for Supernatural) at the beginning or somewhere down the line, but a lot of fandom stuff mostly can remain where it belongs, in fandom. Or better than demanding to transform a show (that has had some LGBT characters already) into something it was never intended, those fans can demand to create a show with the exact representation they want, which would be more proactive; there should be room for everything. I agree about some things like the responsabilities that must be divided between the show and also some of the viewers. But you know my idea about the people of the show so I will not repeat myself here.But about making a show into something is not suppose to br I am not totally with you. Because make these ships canon will not change the story itself. It's just a gay love story instead that a straight one (and for example in teen wolf I am sure that there are straight couple). Obviously that if some people want just their ship becoming the main focus of the show,then I am with you. When I talk about destiel or when people talk about sterek I don't think that what they want are their ship holding hands all the time,or them replacing the main story because of this love.But just their ships being together like the character could be together with a female partner. That's my thought. If people,instead, wants just that for their ship then they really should write or read fan fiction
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