bdc
Junior Member
Posts: 686
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Post by bdc on May 8, 2010 9:07:36 GMT -5
bdc, my comment is not a compliment for Ronaldo...I apologize if my slang is confusing ;D You know Masonville I don't speak english properly, it's my fault... I have to search for the words I don't know but it depends on where I am or what I do when I read comments..
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margie
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Post by margie on May 8, 2010 9:14:48 GMT -5
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irsSyLr7oAI&feature=player_embedded [/yt] that's a sharp argument between the boys.. in short: Manuel scolds Lalo and says to him that he won't help him this time (for what he did to Aguila) and Lalo answered that he regrets having met him because he ruined his life! (poor Flaco!) Unfortunately Mostaza (the head of the team's fans) overheard their quarrel and laughs about it.. Thanks I thought it was something like that. Poor Flaco! He is trapped in a marriage with Lilli who resents him for his betrayal and that she can't start a new life and now the man he loves wishes they never met. I wonder if he will do anything or let Nino and Tato continue to control his life. I feel for Lalo too. He just wants to get away from everything. I think he cared more about his relationship with Flaco than his fledging career and now both are in jeopardy. And he doesn't have anyone who he can lean on for support.
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cheerios
Full Member
If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
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Post by cheerios on May 8, 2010 10:50:48 GMT -5
Wait who killed Giselle?
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margie
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Post by margie on May 8, 2010 10:54:07 GMT -5
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bdc
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Post by bdc on May 8, 2010 11:00:21 GMT -5
It's quite clear that Lili doesn't want to come back with Manuel, she had been hurt so much to forgive him and being a screen again is out of question. She said she deserved more...someone who could really love her and she knew Manuel couldn't love her in that way.
Fortunately Manuel and Lili decided to bury the hatchet and to talk politely about their separation without Nino's help, that's good for both of them in my opinion. Manuel'd like to turn back time but now it's impossibile...he lost his wife in the worse way and he's going to lose Lalo in the same way.... I don't like what Lalo is doing, but he's so young and impulsive, he needs someone helping him to grow up. When Lalo's world was crushing down, where was Manuel? Closed in his limbo licking his wounds and crying like a baby. El Flaco promised him he'd be always by his side, taking care of him because he loved him, but he didn't, at all. After El Chiqui saw them in the showers...Manuel went out his life. That night, all alone in the hotel room, Lalo was so desperate not knowing what his cousin was going to do with his life. Worried his carried was going to end before beginning. Again...Where was Manuel? Elsewhere. And then when el flaco came back, Manuel took him away like an old broken toy. Where was Manuel when Nino threw him out? Did he do anything to avoid him this abuse of power? Nothing. He was only able to tell Lalo that their lovestory was only a possibility, and that he'd have to think about himself and put his focus on football... That was what Lalo did when he put the diuretic in Anguila's drink. Focusing in his career...but in the wrong way. The coach chose him to play with the main team and his cousin, the star of el Deportivo Cristal, turned his back on Lalo, preferring to play with his friend Anguila like a reserve. Lalo knew he was a good footballer who only needed to play with continuance to show his talent. That's why he tried to get rid of Anguila, taking his place in the main team with el Chiqui by his side and maybe he'll be going to play in Europe next year, the dream of every footballer, far from his cousin, far from the club, far from Buenos Ayres but above all far from Manuel...who first seduced him and then abandoned him...
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margie
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Post by margie on May 8, 2010 11:37:37 GMT -5
It's quite clear that Lili doesn't want to come back with Manuel, she had been hurt so much to forgive him and being a screen again is out of question. She said she deserved more...someone who could really love her and she knew Manuel couldn't love her in that way. Fortunately Manuel and Lili decided to bury the hatchet and to talk politely about their separation without Nino's help, that's good for both of them in my opinion. Manuel'd like to turn back time but now it's impossibile...he lost his wife in the worse way and he's going to lose Lalo in the same way.... I don't like what Lalo is doing, but he's so young and impulsive, he needs someone helping him to grow up. When Lalo's world was crushing down, where was Manuel? Closed in his limbo licking his wounds and crying like a baby. El Flaco promised him he'd be always by his side, taking care of him because he loved him, but he didn't, at all. After El Chiqui saw them in the showers...Manuel went out his life. That night, all alone in the hotel room, Lalo was so desperate not knowing what his cousin was going to do with his life. Worried his carried was going to end before beginning. Again...Where was Manuel? Elsewhere. And then when el flaco came back, Manuel took him away like an old broken toy. Where was Manuel when Nino threw him out? Did he do anything to avoid him this abuse of power? Nothing. He was only able to tell Lalo that their lovestory was only a possibility, and that he'd have to think about himself and put his focus on football... That was what Lalo did when he put the diuretic in Anguila's drink. Focusing in his career...but in the wrong way. The coach chose him to play with the main team and his cousin, the star of el Deportivo Cristal, turned his back on Lalo, preferring to play with his friend Anguila like a reserve. Lalo knew he was a good footballer who only needed to play with continuance to show his talent. That's why he tried to get rid of Anguila, taking his place in the main team with el Chiqui by his side and maybe he'll be going to play in Europe next year, the dream of every footballer, far from his cousin, far from the club, far from Buenos Ayres but above all far from Manuel...who first seduced him and then abandoned him... I agree. As much as I don't like Lalo putting the diuretic in Anguila's drink, I think it is forgiveable since Lalo is still so young and impulsive. Manuel on the other hand is supposed to be an adult and I have a harder time accepting the way he has treated Lalo and even Lilli. He lets Nino run over him and not even fight back. And he expects Lilli to go back to the way things were. I think that is just too much to ask. I think Manuel is too selfish, he wanted the life with Lili and Lalo on the side. When things blew up he let other people take control. He said he loved Lalo and would always be there for him but where has he been when things got rough. And what does Lalo have? He has lost his lover, his cousin could not care less about him and now his career is in trouble.
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 8, 2010 15:13:58 GMT -5
Part 33 is up (in Spanish). Muchas gracias Gordiyo!
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Post by safety on May 9, 2010 0:29:23 GMT -5
Hi guys I up a new video for a friend of mine and because we love this song I made this video also have some scenes of MALO so hope you like it KISSES!!
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Post by anthonyl on May 9, 2010 0:33:49 GMT -5
I'm really enjoying this story. Thanks to everyone working to bring it to us non-Spanish speakers. It's really appreciated.
ETA: Sorry, I didn't realize!
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
Posts: 431
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 9, 2010 0:45:37 GMT -5
Anthony you're welcome! but do not post spoilers here
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masonville
New Member
Some people are so afraid to die that they never begin to live.
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Post by masonville on May 9, 2010 15:12:33 GMT -5
The manner in which the Flaco and Lalo storyline is unfolding has me vacillating between “like” and “dislike” of both characters. WARNING: I’m “busting out” Freud in this post, so run for the hills if psychoanalysis isn’t your cup of tea. Anyone think that the writers consider “ ego defense mechanisms” when they develop their characters?<------no way in freaking h#ll Why is anyone asking the question?<---on a dare If you google the term “ ego defense mechanisms” and then apply what you discover to the Flaco and Lalo storyline/characters you’ll find many examples of maladaptive ego defense mechanisms. Flaco and Lalo are emotionally maladjusted, so much so, that any therapist worth his/her salt would be itching at the chance to intervene and salivating at the bill which would be generated. That being been said, read further at your own peril!! Definitions and examples of ego defense mechanisms used by Flaco and Lalo follow… Denial = Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threateningFlaco refusing to accept that hiding his homosexuality, for the sake of public acceptance, is destroying what he holds dear – family and self-worth (… whether Flaco truly loves or loathes himself is unclear) . History is repeating itself with Lalo Displacement - redirecting emotion to a safer outlet. Taking out aggression on the soccer field…applies to both Flaco and Lalo. Maybe Flaco is such as good player because he uses soccer as a release for his frustration at having to hide his homosexuality? Dissociation - drastic modification of one's personal identity or character to avoid emotional distress. Society frowns on gay soccer stars, so Flaco becomes the exemplary family man to avoid the repercussions of being gay. Projection- attributing one's own unacknowledged unacceptable/unwanted thoughts and emotions to another. Lalo drugging/screwing with Anguila since he can’t hurt/screw his lover Flaco (can be taken literally and figuratively). Flaco’s jealousy is another example. He can’t accept that he feels guilty loving Lalo so he blames Lalo for joking with team-mates during practise. Acting out - direct expression of an unconscious wish or impulse by (improper) action Lalo’s outbursts, killing Vanina, threatening Giselle Idealization – perceiving another individual as having more positive qualities than he or she actually have. Lalo idolizing Flaco. Rationalization – convincing oneself, through faulty reasoning, that no wrong is being done and that all is or was all rightFlaco “making excuses” that he is trying to protect Lalo’s career by walking away from him and that he is protecting his wife/family by hiding his homosexuality Regression - reversion to an earlier stage of development rather than handling unacceptable impulses in a more adult way. Flaco’s tearfulness and inability to act for Lili/Lalo/himself. Repression - putting thoughts into the unconscious and preventing painful or dangerous thoughts from entering consciousness. In other words, HIDING which is the central theme of Flaco’s entire life. Lalo has this to look forward to, if there is no resolution between himself, Flaco, choice of career and homosexuality. The crux of ego defense mechanisms is that we all use them, in one way or another, to avoid undue emotional stress; I probably used 2 or 3 just coming up with the list above and they can influence/ prejudice our perceptions of and responses to people, places and events. How we use ego defense mechanisms determines if we’re well adapted, well adjusted and reflects our emotional but not necessarily our chronological maturity. Yes, age can influence which mechanisms we wittingly or unwittingly resort to but being older doesn’t necessarily mean we use the more mature ego defense mechanisms. Flaco may be older than Lalo chronologically but he isnt emotionally more mature. He uses primitive ego defense mechanisms and he has used them badly for so long that he doesn’t know any better. How can someone who has spent the majority of his life hiding to avoid stress become emotionally mature? Is it realistic to expect him to be capable of salvaging a relationship or protecting those around him? Is this all there is for Flaco? It may be ... but it is possible to change and learn, or be taught, how to use and apply more adaptive and mature ego defense mechanisms. Admittedly Lalo’s youth contributes to his emotional immaturity but he is also maladaptive in his response to external and internal stressors. He is prone to acts of passion and he has not yet learned to set boundaries to protect himself against heartache and humiliation. He needs to make changes now, so that he can achieve emotional maturity in the future. It might be helpful to get a glimpse of his childhood. Usually acceptance of being ignored and neglected is rooted in a troubled childhood and learned when children are made to feel insignificant and undeserving by caregivers. Lalo has every right to walk away from Flaco because, consciously or unconsciously on the part of Flaco, Lalo is not being respected or treated as an equal. It’s ironic that Lalo fights for respect on the soccer field yet he doesn’t fight for it in this relationship…hopefully we’ll see him start doing so…there are hints!!! The rapid progression from ecstasy to agony in Flaco and Lalo’s relationship is admittedly unsettling, but not unexpected when one considers that they are both emotionally immature and use maladaptive “ego defense mechanisms”. Yes, Flaco and Lalo’s relationship is captivating and difficult to ignore but so is a train wreck…it’s hard to look away from impending destruction. Physical attraction and great sex are not sufficient to form the foundations for a mature relationship. In my opinion, relationships are partnerships. They are most successful when there is overall equality between partners achieved through compromises. People in successful relationships are successful (however you define that) as individuals but they also enhance / potentiate each other’s strengths in combination. They are successful because they know how to protect themselves. Each partner sets and keeps the boundaries for what behaviors are / are not acceptable. If you’re in a relationship to help define / find yourself or in a relationship where the foundation is primarily sexual, you better not buy green bananas (translation that relationship isn’t going to last long enough to see the green bananas turn yellow). You have to be capable of taking care of “you” before you can take care of someone else, otherwise the “saving a drowning victim scenario” occurs, with potentionally both parties perishing. Instead of making each other better, Flaco and Lalo are drowning each other. To varying degrees, they are both victims – of circumstance, of societal expectations, of their own emotional immaturity. I don’t know if either one of them knows how to come to his own rescue let alone each other’s. Yet, there are great expectations for these two. They’re beautiful to look at … shouldn’t they behave with grace and beauty? The writers have spoken/written and so far the answer appears to be “NO”. It’s really a moot point, whether these characters are written for high ratings or whether they’re written to represent “realistic characters”. The end result is that a lot of people are watching intently and hoping for “ideal outcomes”. There are beautiful sculptures with fault lines coursing through the marble, yet the pieces remain intact and are considered creative ideals despite the flaws. Will Flaco and Lalo’s relationship succeed despite both characters being essentially flawed? Freud would say “perhaps” and order many, many sessions of grueling and expensive psychoanalysis. Thankfully Freud isn’t writing the script. In the hearts of (wo)men and, hopefully, from the pens of writers, hope springs eternal. Hope doesn’t have to be realistic, like spring it brims with idealism and optimism ... perhaps love will conquer all for Flaco and Lalo. ;D If you were able to sit and read this dissertation in it’s entirely, congratulations you’ve participated in Intellectualization – (another ego defense mechanism) concentrating on the intellectual components of a situation so as to distance oneself from the associated anxiety-provoking emotionsIf this drama between Flaco and Lalo is killing you, rest assured by dissecting it with a fine tooth comb, we’ve used a mature, fairly adaptive, albeit neurotic, ego defense mechanism to kill some time until the next stress-inducing episode. If you were amused…good that’s Humor (another ego defense mechanism) it explores the absurdity inherent in any event and is one of the most mature and adaptive ego defense mechanisms ;D If after reading this you want to kill me, your Id is trumping your Superego and hopefully it will only be a matter of minutes before your ego finds an ego defense mechanism to restore the delicate balance. Keep tuned sports fans for the trials and tribulations of Flaco and Lalo. This concludes our lesson on “ ego defense mechanisms” for today…and forever!!!!??
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Post by massusa on May 9, 2010 20:36:34 GMT -5
Wow Masonville, you were really inspired!!!. I read the whole thing and I completely agree with all your comments and notes. The only thing that you never mentioned is "culture", which is the most important fact here. We are talking about Argentina, South America, completely different culture and where many things will never be accepted and will never change. Most of gays hide and in order to be accepted they marry and they live a doble life, pretty much the way is portray in Botineras with El Flaco. The only way that they could be happy here or at least to have a life is that Lalo and El Flaco were transfered or moved to Europe or any other place outside Argentina.
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masonville
New Member
Some people are so afraid to die that they never begin to live.
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Post by masonville on May 10, 2010 2:05:28 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to read the post and for your comments, massusa. I refer to “culture” as “society”. I did gloss over culture/society in my post because that opens up a huge can of worms and frankly I was getting writer’s cramp from all the typing. I alluded to the impact that culture/society has on these individuals in my comments on dissociation where society frowns of gay soccer stars, and when I said that Flaco and Lalo are victims of “societal expectations”. There is no doubt that culture/society influences what ego defense mechanisms people use. If you look at the challenges that Flaco and Lalo must face and factor in society/sports culture into the equation, then their situation becomes seemingly insurmountable…the relationship is doomed to failure<--- writers are you reading this...Einstein himself would have trouble solving this one?!? Oops, there’s another ego defense mechanism slipping in Anticipation- planning for inevitable future discomfortBut, since you raised the point, let’s see what our global participants think about the influence of culture on the Flaco and Lalo relationship? Let’s throw that fact that culture isn’t only geographic but also sports-specific into the mix – there are different expectations and perceptions of soccer players/footballers and figure skaters. Let’s postulate that Flaco and Lalo are not doomed to failure and let’s take emotional maturity and “ego defenses” out of the equation...although it kills me to do so after spending all that time on it Where is Flaco and Lalo’s relationship more likely to survive? a) North American soccer culture b) South American soccer culture c) European soccer culture d) Australian soccer culture e) Arabic soccer culture f) African soccer culture g) Asian soccer culture d) in no soccer culture – they should hang up their cleats Discuss and let’s see if we can learn something about regional perceptions and expectations of gay athletes Here’s the poll so we can get some stats
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bdc
Junior Member
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Post by bdc on May 10, 2010 2:36:34 GMT -5
The only way that they could be happy here or at least to have a life is that Lalo and El Flaco were transfered or moved to Europe or any other place outside Argentina. We're talking about football and sadly It's the same everywhere... there'are no gay footballers out of the closet. Argentina, Spain, Italy, England, Russia....it doesn't matter how much a country is open to homosexuality...Football is another planet, other rules! The only thing they could do...is continuing to hide their relationship, even if they're going to come back together. But I think one of them will have to stop playing, I suppose this could be Manuel...the older one.
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 10, 2010 2:45:23 GMT -5
I thought it would have been of crucial importance to understand Manuel's and Lalo's harsh argument on the football pitch that took place in the latest episode, so I asked an angel for the translation.. a HUGE thank you to Mycatfox! Flaco: Is it true what the people are saying? Lalo: What're you talking about? Flaco: Don't play dumb, I'm talking about Anguila. Is it true you gave him a diuretic so it shows in his anti-doping test? Lalo: Are you accusing me now? Flaco: No, I don't, I just wanna know the true. Can you be that dirty? Lalo: I don't know, we'll talk latter. Get lost! Flaco: Listen to me, ass-hole, you've just reached another low! Lalo: Look who's talking! How dare you? You have no right. I'm doing what is best for me. I'm just doing anything because I wanna get the fuck out of here so I don't see your face again. Flaco: You know what, Lalo, I was always there for you, I was there when you told me about Vanina, I had a thousands fights with the Pajaro because of you, because I tried to protect you. But on this one, you are on your own! Lalo: You have no shame, Flaco, when I left the house the other day you completely let me down. You failed me! Flaco: Don't be an ass-hole, I was protecting my family. But you know what, if you wanna leave, leave!. Go fuck yourself! Just don't screw Anguila's life. Because what you did is really mean. Lalo: They started the whole thing! I just want them to stop shitting on me. I'm fed up! Flaco: don't worry, Lalo, you are a talented climber, so you'll make it. But think twice before becoming a complete mother fucker. You'll lose the players' respect on the field. They'll hate you. Lalo: Don't worry, I don't expect anything from anyone anymore Flaco: Don't even from me, do you? Are you that desperate to leave me, ass-hole? Answer me! Lalo: Yes I am. I totally regret the day I met you. You ruined my life since the day you showed up at Tato's house. But it's over. You're dead to me. It's over. Forget you ever met me. Mostaza: Hey, buddy, you're blocking my view, I can't see the game. Move over! Flaco: What are doing here? Mostaza: I'm watching the training. Why, it's forbidden? Flaco: Have you been overhearing? Mostaza: I don't do that. I don't give a fuck. But you were yelling at each other like f*g**ts...The last thing I heard was "are you that desperate to leave me?". The rest of your talk, I couldn't hear...(smirking) Move over so I can keep watching the training!
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bdc
Junior Member
Posts: 686
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Post by bdc on May 10, 2010 3:21:22 GMT -5
THANKS for the translation Flaco& Lalo.
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
Posts: 431
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 10, 2010 3:39:10 GMT -5
You're welcome my dear, but I've just reposted Mycatfox's translation so we should thank him. Speaking of gay football players (or the lack of them..), I'm pretty sure there's an out player in Germany, but I couldn't find his name (he's not a top player anyway), while I was searching for this guy I discovered this sad story: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu
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margie
Junior Member
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Post by margie on May 10, 2010 9:16:08 GMT -5
That was a harsh argument. I hope this isn't the end of Lalo and Manuel.
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kevinlantojack
Junior Member
MONOGAMY,Isn't that the straight people disease
Posts: 232
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Post by kevinlantojack on May 10, 2010 17:11:53 GMT -5
You're welcome my dear, but I've just reposted Mycatfox's translation so we should thank him. Speaking of gay football players (or the lack of them..), I'm pretty sure there's an out player in Germany, but I couldn't find his name (he's not a top player anyway), while I was searching for this guy I discovered this sad story: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu Thank you Flaco & lalo and Mycatfox you guys are a darling
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masonville
New Member
Some people are so afraid to die that they never begin to live.
Posts: 102
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Post by masonville on May 11, 2010 0:18:49 GMT -5
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
Posts: 431
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 11, 2010 8:15:16 GMT -5
Part 29 is up (with English subtitles). Thank you so much Emsol and Kelly, we know you're busy and more than ever we appreciate your dedication to this story.
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
Posts: 431
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 11, 2010 8:20:28 GMT -5
Part 30 is up (with English subtitles). You're amazing chicas !
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bdc
Junior Member
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Post by bdc on May 11, 2010 12:18:47 GMT -5
as regards the new spoilers (Lalo and Riveiro go from love to hate under the pressure that Lily exercises with the divorce), don't you think we need to let the production know how much we love this couple?
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Flaco&Lalo
Junior Member
YAY! Hot gay footballers at last! (and none of them end up dead!) :)
Posts: 431
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Post by Flaco&Lalo on May 11, 2010 13:47:52 GMT -5
it's a good idea, how can we let them know it?
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bdc
Junior Member
Posts: 686
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Post by bdc on May 11, 2010 14:28:24 GMT -5
it's a good idea, how can we let them know it? writing to their official facebook page? www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/Botineras.oficial?ref=ts
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