Coronation Street - Spoiler Discussion

[overtherainbow]

So they finally have sex. Good for them. But I am furious with Sean trying to ruin their night, not that they didn't manage that on their own mind you, lol.

I am just so confused about where Todd is about to go now. Billy says it's too soon to live together, and lets face it, it is. But if Sean moves in with Eileen again where does that leave Todd? Hmm

[atlanticslide]

Heh, "Todd produces a DVD" is a really amusing turn of phrase.

It's interesting that it seems like they go ahead and have sex after the fallout from the hotel - I hope it isn't because Billy is feeling pressured to do it in order to make Todd happy. I'm also wondering where Todd could move if he doesn't stay with Billy - before he moved back into Eileen's it seemed like he was just staying at some random flat that was never shown, possibly off the main street, but I wonder if this time around they'd have him stay in one of the established residences, with another character. It doesn't even seem like there's a spare room anywhere at the moment - maybe if Sean moves back in with Eileen, Todd could move in with Norris?? (probably not, but that would be amusing)

[overtherainbow]

Aug 30, 2016 8:52:15 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

Heh, "Todd produces a DVD" is a really amusing turn of phrase.

It's interesting that it seems like they go ahead and have sex after the fallout from the hotel - I hope it isn't because Billy is feeling pressured to do it in order to make Todd happy. I'm also wondering where Todd could move if he doesn't stay with Billy - before he moved back into Eileen's it seemed like he was just staying at some random flat that was never shown, possibly off the main street, but I wonder if this time around they'd have him stay in one of the established residences, with another character. It doesn't even seem like there's a spare room anywhere at the moment - maybe if Sean moves back in with Eileen, Todd could move in with Norris?? (probably not, but that would be amusing)

I had the same thought myself, that maybe Billy felt pressured, but I hope that's not the case. I hope it comes across better on screen then it does in the spoilers, because if people misinterpret it, or if Billy really did feel pressured, then that would suck. I don't think that's the case though. Dan touches upon this in his interview, about Todd booking a hotel room for the night: "Billy feels like the time is right. He's up for it."

[HQ75]

Another flashback.
When Todd first met Sean, 2003

[cheerios]

I know we won't get to actually see anything since this is Corrie. But they are making out on the hotel bed together, makes me so happy. It's a step forward in British soaps for LGBT couples and characters. I think from my own personal viewing that Corrie and EastEnders have shown the most when it comes to LGBT sex and intimate moments. (There is Hollyoaks, but it's not really on the same level as the other three soaps) Emmerdale is getting there with Robron, but they have become a bit sedate lately. I admit I do miss the spark of their sexual desire for each other during their affair. I understand they're in a different place and I'm happy that they are a real genuine couple. But come on they are two of the most passionate sexual people I have seen on soaps, and there aren't a few scenes of them devouring each other?

Sorry I'm ranting and going off topic...

Back to Todd and Billy.

I think Billy is deeply in love with Todd, the way he looks at Todd and lights up around him. I was reading a really good fanfiction about Billy and it was fleshing out Billy's love life starting off with his first kiss with a boy at sixteen. Here the link...archiveofourown.org/works/7890196

Anyway the way it talks about Billy's love for Sean actually help me understand their relationship better. And how Billy could be both with two very different men like Sean and Todd.

Here what they said about Sean and Billy. "Being with Sean is like being wrapped in a perfect summer day all year year long. He is bubbly and warm, kind hearted and so very in love with Billy. There is an ease with Sean, despite his penchant for dramatic hand gestures and wild floral shirts, that allows Billy to readjust his expectations on what love looks and feels like. Maybe it isn’t some deep spiritual connection. Maybe it’s just easy. Just fun." Things were easy with Sean for Billy, I think it was a safe relationship even with Sean's jealously, self center behavior, and neediness. But from my own person viewing of their relationship, Sean seemed more into Billy than Billy was into Sean. Billy loved Sean, but wasn't in love with him, at least that's what I took from watching their scenes. Sean was bubbly, funny, a good time, considering Billy's life (that we know about) it probably felt good to have such a shiny person in his life, who looked at him like he was the sun. Being with Sean made Billy feel good I think about himself and about life in general. But I don't think that could have sustained Billy for long, which is why he started to pull away. I honestly think there were issues in their relationships on both sides before Billy fell for Todd, those feelings were just the finals touch on the ending of their relationship.

But with Todd, I think it's way more serious than that. I don't think Todd been this serious or genuine about anyone since Karl. And I think that though Billy enjoyed being the hero/sun with Sean. He loves the fact that he gets to be human with Todd more. I do think Todd sees Billy just as wonderful as Sean did, I think Billy might be the first religious cinnamon roll that Todd not only cares for, but respects and admires. Considering Todd's views on religion and people that's saying something. But Billy can be vulnerable with him, he can be at his lowest in front of him, have dark moments around Todd. He can be both light and dark with ease around Todd and Todd still loves, accepts, and understands him. And for Billy who must always be the good man, the respectable man, the man people look up to, that must be so heavenly that with Todd he doesn't have to put on a show, with Todd he can just be Billy.

I hope Billy sleeps with Todd because he wants to and not because he feels pressure to sleep with him or he will lose him. That's not good for either of them. I'm happy they are making that step in their relationship only if it's what they both want and are happy with that choice. Though I think it was only a matter of time, there is so much chemistry and heat between them they could set fire to the vicarage.

I really hope Billy doesn't give up being a vicar for Todd, not that I don't want them together. But being a vicar is so important to Billy. It makes him happy, gives him purpose, is important to him, and he's really good at it. And if Todd is worth his salt, he would never let Billy walk away from something so important to him. It can't be good for their relationship either, no it's best if Billy stays where he is. I think Todd will live with Billy for a while until he can find a place and then either get his own unseen place or he will move into a place with Tracy or Sarah.

[atlanticslide]

I don't think Todd's never been this serious about someone since Karl - there's a huge chunk of time that he wasn't on screen and we still don't know exactly what happened while he was gone, and I think it's likely that he had at least one or two serious relationships that probably went really badly and contributed to him becoming so cynical and bitter. We know of at least two long term relationships he had while in London, though not exactly the details of them (except that Jules seemed like a jerk and Todd tried to rip him off of a bunch of money?)

Also, this may be an unpopular opinion, but after watching the 2004 storyline, I really don't like Karl. I think he was way too pushy and aggressive with Todd considering Todd was clearly struggling with his situation and, even though he was realizing and coming to accept that he was gay, was still engaged with a baby on the way. Karl seemed to have very little consideration for any of that - very similar to how Todd treated Marcus (though I do think Karl had more genuine feelings for Todd than Todd had for Marcus).

That said, I agree that this seems to be the most serious Todd's been about anyone since he's been back on the show, and the most serious that we've probably ever seen on screen about any relationship since maybe Sarah, and while I find Todd and Billy's fumblings here interesting and very true to life, I hope they're just minor bumps. I hope Billy doesn't leave his job, and would love to see Todd, despite his feelings about religion, tell Billy that he should stay as a vicar. It would be interesting to see them have a conversation about Billy needing Todd to respect Billy's feelings and his work even if he doesn't like the church.

[overtherainbow]

Aug 30, 2016 16:10:30 GMT -5 cheerios said:

I know we won't get to actually see anything since this is Corrie. But they are making out on the hotel bed together, makes me so happy. It's a step forward in British soaps for LGBT couples and characters. I think from my own personal viewing that Corrie and EastEnders have shown the most when it comes to LGBT sex and intimate moments. (There is Hollyoaks, but it's not really on the same level as the other three soaps) Emmerdale is getting there with Robron, but they have become a bit sedate lately. I admit I do miss the spark of their sexual desire for each other during their affair. I understand they're in a different place and I'm happy that they are a real genuine couple. But come on they are two of the most passionate sexual people I have seen on soaps, and there aren't a few scenes of them devouring each other?

Sorry I'm ranting and going off topic...

Back to Todd and Billy.

I think Billy is deeply in love with Todd, the way he looks at Todd and lights up around him. I was reading a really good fanfiction about Billy and it was fleshing out Billy's love life starting off with his first kiss with a boy at sixteen. Here the link...archiveofourown.org/works/7890196

Anyway the way it talks about Billy's love for Sean actually help me understand their relationship better. And how Billy could be both with two very different men like Sean and Todd.

Here what they said about Sean and Billy. "Being with Sean is like being wrapped in a perfect summer day all year year long. He is bubbly and warm, kind hearted and so very in love with Billy. There is an ease with Sean, despite his penchant for dramatic hand gestures and wild floral shirts, that allows Billy to readjust his expectations on what love looks and feels like. Maybe it isn’t some deep spiritual connection. Maybe it’s just easy. Just fun." Things were easy with Sean for Billy, I think it was a safe relationship even with Sean's jealously, self center behavior, and neediness. But from my own person viewing of their relationship, Sean seemed more into Billy than Billy was into Sean. Billy loved Sean, but wasn't in love with him, at least that's what I took from watching their scenes. Sean was bubbly, funny, a good time, considering Billy's life (that we know about) it probably felt good to have such a shiny person in his life, who looked at him like he was the sun. Being with Sean made Billy feel good I think about himself and about life in general. But I don't think that could have sustained Billy for long, which is why he started to pull away. I honestly think there were issues in their relationships on both sides before Billy fell for Todd, those feelings were just the finals touch on the ending of their relationship.

But with Todd, I think it's way more serious than that. I don't think Todd been this serious or genuine about anyone since Karl. And I think that though Billy enjoyed being the hero/sun with Sean. He loves the fact that he gets to be human with Todd more. I do think Todd sees Billy just as wonderful as Sean did, I think Billy might be the first religious cinnamon roll that Todd not only cares for, but respects and admires. Considering Todd's views on religion and people that's saying something. But Billy can be vulnerable with him, he can be at his lowest in front of him, have dark moments around Todd. He can be both light and dark with ease around Todd and Todd still loves, accepts, and understands him. And for Billy who must always be the good man, the respectable man, the man people look up to, that must be so heavenly that with Todd he doesn't have to put on a show, with Todd he can just be Billy.

I hope Billy sleeps with Todd because he wants to and not because he feels pressure to sleep with him or he will lose him. That's not good for either of them. I'm happy they are making that step in their relationship only if it's what they both want and are happy with that choice. Though I think it was only a matter of time, there is so much chemistry and heat between them they could set fire to the vicarage.

I really hope Billy doesn't give up being a vicar for Todd, not that I don't want them together. But being a vicar is so important to Billy. It makes him happy, gives him purpose, is important to him, and he's really good at it. And if Todd is worth his salt, he would never let Billy walk away from something so important to him. It can't be good for their relationship either, no it's best if Billy stays where he is. I think Todd will live with Billy for a while until he can find a place and then either get his own unseen place or he will move into a place with Tracy or Sarah.

Yeah, we won't get to see the sex, when they finally do have sex we will just see them passionately make out before heading upstairs, then I assume there will be a cut. I do wish they could have made out on bed/undressing each other before the cut then we see them post sex. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "make out then walking upstairs" thing. It's not the way I would have done it if I was in charge, but well, I'm not. I know this is pre-watershed but I still think my scenario could have been done, making out on bed undressing then cut away then the next morning we see them together, I mean, they have shown as much already anyway, with them kissing except the sex part (which would be off screen anyway). But again, this is just my personal preference. It's not up to me. I'm just honestly glad they finally have sex at all. You're right, it was about time, with all the passion and chemistry they have. And I'm not gonna be too harsh on Corrie with this as they have done so well so far with the affection and pda. I am NOT happy with the way DigitalSpy worded their spoilers though, because it made it seem like Todd coerced him into having sex. I don't think that's the case at all. Dan even said in the interview that Billy was ready to have sex in the hotel. I just hope it comes across better on screen than it does in the spoilers, because the spoilers were terribly written and confusing. It would be such a shame if it could be misinterpreted. I hope Billy says something to indicate he is ready before the hotel, but at the very least before them making up again, that he is ready. I'm scared of Corrie messing up here, people will not be happy if it's seen as Todd forcing Billy into having se. They have to be really careful with how these scenes play out on screen. I know I won't be happy if it comes across that way, like Todd is forcing him (even though I don't persoally think that is the case).

When it comes to the affection between them, I agree. I am so incredibly impressed. It's one of the best portrayals I've ever seen when it comes to a fictional gay couple on tv. The show has so far managed to get everything right with the affection, pda, with showing them being smitten with each other, being in love, being passionate and romantic. It's just done so incredibly well. It's all played out on screen too, not off, like with so many other couples. They have chemistry and passion for days, and it just feels so realistic. These two really shouldn't work out on paper, but somehow they just do, they work really well together. They trust each other, support each other and accept each other with flaws and all. I hate to compare them to other gay couples on tv, but lets just say a certain other couple annoy me because with them everything plays out off screen and there is hardly any affection between them outside of a few pecks here and there, they don't even stand close when they talk to each other, they barely have eye contact. With Todd and Billy it's different, it's the little things that make them so good, the touches, the kisses, the looks they give each other, you can see in their eyes that they are totally smitten with each other, they're in that loved up "honeymoon phase", it's so obvious and it's adorable. Oh and btw, It's really odd because Corrie used to be the most conservative soap, but right now of the three main soaps (not counting Hollyoaks) I'd say it's the most progressive one. They don't shy away from affection between the gay characters, it's done better than on Emmerdale, maybe even EastEnders too. It's like Emmerdale and EastEnders have switched places, Coronation Street is the progressive one while Emmerdale is the conservative one. Hmm..

About Billy & Sean, OMG I couldn't have said it better myself. You are right, Billy cared about Sean and loved him, but he wasn't in love with him. They lacked that passion, that spark that Billy now has with Todd. The spoiler even says Billy is afraid he's ruined the best thing that has ever happened to him. He is serious about Todd and he is definitely in love wit him even if the L word hasn't been said yet. I also agree that Sean was more into Billy than Billy ever was into Sean. He tried so hard to make it work, to appease Sean, but Sean never accepted him for who he was. He always found something wrong with Billy, whether it was his job or something else. He constantly complained. It was clear to me that this relationship had its issues since the start, they were never a good match. That's why I find it ridiculous now that Sean says Billy was "the love of his life", because I just don't think that's true at all. They were never good together. They didn't accept each other the way Todd and Billy accept each other with flaws and all. I feel like they actually understand each other. Billy and Sean never did, they were constantly bickering. I realize Sean is sad, but I don't think revenge is the answer. Instead Sean should look back at the relationship and realize it wasn't working for either of them, it happens and it's time to move on. I also agree with what you said about Sean being bubbly and fun to hang out with, and making Billy feel good about himself and his work in general. Billy's work can be very demanding ad hard to deal with, so Sean probably did make him smile and he was serious with him, but at the end of the day he just fell out of love with him, he pulled away and that's when he realized he had feelings for Todd.

As for Todd, yep, I agree, this is Todd's first serious relationship since Karl. He manipulated Marcus and didn't care about him at all. Billy on the other hand means everything to him and I truly believe Todd when he says Billy could be the one, it's just the way he lights up around him, it's so obvious. They also have a very strong connection that just can't be denied. You mention that Billy is the first guy Todd respects and admire, and I couldn't agree more. Billy can be vulnerable around Todd, yes, he knows he can open up to Todd and he will listen, and like you say, he can just be Billy around Todd. I think the fact that Todd loves, understand and accepts Billy, and the other way around too for Billy when it comes to Todd, is so important in any relationship. It's a serious relationship for the both of them, they will have obstacles but hopefully they'll overcome them because they really are so good together and it would be a shame to see them break up.

Sadly I think the bishop says Todd will have to move out. I agree though that I think and hope Todd will support Billy and encourage him not to give up being a vicar, because he knows how important it is to Billy. On a personal level I really like Billy being a vicar, and I would be sad if he gave that up, very romantic of course but also very sad. I hope the bishop at least just tells Billy that Todd has to move out, but that they can still be together as a couple. If he tells them to break up then yeah that would be a lot more serious. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Aug 31, 2016 7:35:32 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I don't think Todd's never been this serious about someone since Karl - there's a huge chunk of time that he wasn't on screen and we still don't know exactly what happened while he was gone, and I think it's likely that he had at least one or two serious relationships that probably went really badly and contributed to him becoming so cynical and bitter. We know of at least two long term relationships he had while in London, though not exactly the details of them (except that Jules seemed like a jerk and Todd tried to rip him off of a bunch of money?)

Also, this may be an unpopular opinion, but after watching the 2004 storyline, I really don't like Karl. I think he was way too pushy and aggressive with Todd considering Todd was clearly struggling with his situation and, even though he was realizing and coming to accept that he was gay, was still engaged with a baby on the way. Karl seemed to have very little consideration for any of that - very similar to how Todd treated Marcus (though I do think Karl had more genuine feelings for Todd than Todd had for Marcus).

That said, I agree that this seems to be the most serious Todd's been about anyone since he's been back on the show, and the most serious that we've probably ever seen on screen about any relationship since maybe Sarah, and while I find Todd and Billy's fumblings here interesting and very true to life, I hope they're just minor bumps. I hope Billy doesn't leave his job, and would love to see Todd, despite his feelings about religion, tell Billy that he should stay as a vicar. It would be interesting to see them have a conversation about Billy needing Todd to respect Billy's feelings and his work even if he doesn't like the church.

Yeah, I think it's his first serious relationship in a while too, since Karl. BTW, I hope Kate Oates explores what happened to him in London, why he came back so cynical and bitter. I know Kate said she was intrigued by Todd so I'm hopeful.

I agree with you about Karl. He was way too pushy and aggressive basically forcing Todd to come out, and the whole situation with Sarah and their son. All he cared about was Todd finally accepting he was gay and coming out. I agree that he treated Todd basically the same way as Todd treated Marcus.

I agree that these issues between them that Corrie bring up are interesting and very true to real life. I too hope that they are just minor fumblings though, I do think that despite their differences they do understand, accept and support each other so I'm not too worried. I want Todd to tell Billy he shouldn't give up on being a vicar, because it means so much to him. It would be wonderful to see that because it means for once Todd puts someone else before himself, it would be a selfless act. It would prove that he loves and understands Billy and it would be wonderful to see that character growth from Todd. He has come a really long way lately, I like how the show has softened him a lot, and I think part of that is because of Billy, we finally get to see his more sensitive side.

[atlanticslide]

I still don't think this is Todd's first serious relationship since Karl. I think it's the first we've seen on the show, but I still think he definitely had at least a couple of serious relationships while in London that we didn't see and haven't heard about - he even talked to Jason once about having his heart broken (which may or may not have been genuine, it was during the immediate fallout of ending his relationship with Marcus so who knows, but he said something about how when he's had his heart broken it's made him more cynical and bitter, which seems believable).

[overtherainbow]

Aug 31, 2016 12:10:34 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I still don't think this is Todd's first serious relationship since Karl. I think it's the first we've seen on the show, but I still think he definitely had at least a couple of serious relationships while in London that we didn't see and haven't heard about - he even talked to Jason once about having his heart broken (which may or may not have been genuine, it was during the immediate fallout of ending his relationship with Marcus so who knows, but he said something about how when he's had his heart broken it's made him more cynical and bitter, which seems believable).

Yeah, you're right. He was with Jules and he probably had other long term relationships too.

[atlanticslide]

Uuuuuuugh these spoilers are a bummer - very intriguing, but still a bummer, and also confusing. I refuse to believe that Todd is going to turn completely back to being an asshole, and I refuse to believe that Todd and Billy will be over for good. My biggest hope is that they're faking a breakup in order to somehow help Todd get in with Phelan so he can dig up dirt by working close with Phelan, but Billy being in on it may be too much to hope for - what I think is more likely is that Todd is working with Phelan to try and dig up dirt on him and his relationship with Billy is either an unfortunate casualty of bad decisions on his part, or he intentionally sabotages things in order to keep up appearances for his plan against Phelan.

Either way, I think Todd vs. Phelan was always going to be a long, drawn-out storyline and I definitely think Todd is only working with him to try and eventually take him down, and to protect Eileen. I also think there's got to be more to Todd and Billy breaking up than Todd simply being a jerk and doing something shitty. It just seems like he's grown too much and come too far to regress so completely. Or, if it is just down to him doing something stupid and shitty, I still don't believe this will be the end of them forever.

[overtherainbow]

Sept 5, 2016 23:56:00 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

Uuuuuuugh these spoilers are a bummer - very intriguing, but still a bummer, and also confusing. I refuse to believe that Todd is going to turn completely back to being an asshole, and I refuse to believe that Todd and Billy will be over for good. My biggest hope is that they're faking a breakup in order to somehow help Todd get in with Phelan so he can dig up dirt by working close with Phelan, but Billy being in on it may be too much to hope for - what I think is more likely is that Todd is working with Phelan to try and dig up dirt on him and his relationship with Billy is either an unfortunate casualty of bad decisions on his part, or he intentionally sabotages things in order to keep up appearances for his plan against Phelan.

Either way, I think Todd vs. Phelan was always going to be a long, drawn-out storyline and I definitely think Todd is only working with him to try and eventually take him down, and to protect Eileen. I also think there's got to be more to Todd and Billy breaking up than Todd simply being a jerk and doing something shitty. It just seems like he's grown too much and come too far to regress so completely. Or, if it is just down to him doing something stupid and shitty, I still don't believe this will be the end of them forever.

I've always said when something is too good to be true, that means it usually is. Their relationship has been so good. All the passion, chemistry, them being so much in love. I knew it was too good to last. I knew they'd break up at some point because they are so different and I figured Todd would mess up doing something stupid. I just didn't expect it to be this soon.

I also had a really bad feeling reading some of Kate Oates interviews. She just said she was 'intrigued' or something with Todd and Billy's relationship. It's obvious she had no real plans for them, unlike with Todd and then Todd and Phelan's rivalry. I knew Todd and Billy would end up being casulties, but again, I just didn't expect it to be this soon.

A small part of me do wonder if they got cold feet due to the complaints so they decided to break them up. I think it's more likely though that they were just casulties for Kate Oates plan to make Todd bad again. It's obvious this was her plan all along. When she talked about how dark Todd is and she needed Todd to break up with Billy to have enough anger in him to take down Phelan. Kate Oates LOVE her villains. She made Robert on Emmerdale into a complete psycho trying to kill everyone around him. I gotbso disgusted I had to stop watching. I know she redeemed him eventually, buy still. I always had this naggibg feeling she'd do the same to Todd and it looks like I was right. She tend to go completely overboard with her "baddies". Todd is just another casualty for her lame ass psycho characters.

I think you are onto something, atlanticslide. Unfortunately I think Todd and Billy's break up is due to Todd's actions. Apparently Todd told the bishop about them living together. I have no idea why, the only thing that makes sense is that Todd found out about Sean cancelling the hotel room and wantes revenge on him, so hw told the bishop and put the blame on Sean.

I expected Phelan or Sean to break them up by telling the bishop. I'm surprised Todd did it. I know he probably did it out of spite, probably as a revenge for what Sean did or something, but it still feels weird. You can say a lot about Todd but he isn't stupid. I just find it hard to understand he would risk their relationship just like that, though I guess this is typical Todd, making rash decisions and sabotaging for himself, sigh. I just thought he had learned from his mistakes, but I guess not.

As for them going forward.. I really don't know. I'm confused about this because I really thought they were endgame. I want to think and hope they do end up getting back together eventually, but with Kate Oates in charge I'm just not sure. She loved her baddies and I have a feeling she thinks Billy gets in the way of Todd's bad side. He can't be with a vicar and still be bad.

The only thing that gives me hope now is the spoiler in itself hinting at Todd trying to redeem himself for Billy. I know it said so with a question mark, but well.. it's better than nothing. Also, I'm not sure but didn't they film some scenes in August? I'm not sure about this. I'll look it up. If they did, those scenes have not aired yet, so at least there might be some hope. I know Dan filmed some things with Tina (Sarah). Maybe I'm reading way too much into things but I wonder if Sarah is trying to get them back together, or maybe Tracy will.

ETA: I was right! They filmed some scenes together in mid August. The only question is when will these air? They usually film 6-8 weeks ahead, but I'm afraid the scenes they filmed will air a week earlier and it might be their break up scenes.

[atlanticslide]

I don't think it's necessarily that Kate Oates doesn't care about the two of them together. She does love her baddies, but remember that she was the one who came up with the Aaron rape storyline and had Robert as a central figure in it supporting and loving Aaron. Also, while I love that Todd can still be manipulative and lie his ass off, I don't think this is necessarily going to be him going back to totally being an asshole and an antagonist, especially since we already have one antagonist in this storyline in Phelan (or two, if you count Vinny). It wouldn't make sense from a storytelling perspective for Todd to flip sides and genuinely align himself with Phelan, because where would the story be able to go from there? I definitely think he's trying to play Phelan, and I just can't help thinking that the timing of his breakup with Billy is such a coincidence that it makes me wonder if there's more going on there. Todd is really good at lying, but the Callum murder coverup is a good example of how Todd doesn't always think through the long term effects of his lies, so maybe this is something like Todd calling the Bishop to complain as part of his plan and doesn't realize at the time what it might do to his relationship. Maybe he intentionally ruins the relationship to give himself an excuse to join Phelan; maybe he's worried for Billy's safety because of Phelan and Vinny so he wants to put some distance between himself and Billy. Maybe he never intended to break up at all, and the phonecall to the Bishop was just an attempt to give himself an excuse to move back in with Eileen and it backfires when Sean finds out and tells Billy. I wonder how Sean finds that out, anyway.

Anyway, yeah, they're still filming together, and in general I just can't believe that the relationship is over for good. I think there are probably many more twists and turns coming up for these two.

[overtherainbow]

Sept 6, 2016 8:12:26 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I don't think it's necessarily that Kate Oates doesn't care about the two of them together. She does love her baddies, but remember that she was the one who came up with the Aaron rape storyline and had Robert as a central figure in it supporting and loving Aaron. Also, while I love that Todd can still be manipulative and lie his ass off, I don't think this is necessarily going to be him going back to totally being an asshole and an antagonist, especially since we already have one antagonist in this storyline in Phelan (or two, if you count Vinny). It wouldn't make sense from a storytelling perspective for Todd to flip sides and genuinely align himself with Phelan, because where would the story be able to go from there? I definitely think he's trying to play Phelan, and I just can't help thinking that the timing of his breakup with Billy is such a coincidence that it makes me wonder if there's more going on there. Todd is really good at lying, but the Callum murder coverup is a good example of how Todd doesn't always think through the long term effects of his lies, so maybe this is something like Todd calling the Bishop to complain as part of his plan and doesn't realize at the time what it might do to his relationship. Maybe he intentionally ruins the relationship to give himself an excuse to join Phelan; maybe he's worried for Billy's safety because of Phelan and Vinny so he wants to put some distance between himself and Billy. Maybe he never intended to break up at all, and the phonecall to the Bishop was just an attempt to give himself an excuse to move back in with Eileen and it backfires when Sean finds out and tells Billy. I wonder how Sean finds that out, anyway.

Anyway, yeah, they're still filming together, and in general I just can't believe that the relationship is over for good. I think there are probably many more twists and turns coming up for these two.

What hurts me the most is I really thought Todd understood what the church meant to Billy. I thought they got along great and that they had a connection. It looked like they accepted each other, flaws and all. I knew Todd wasn't terribly happy with the church, but there hasn't been much indication before now that he was that bothered by the church either. If anything Sean seemed more bothered but I digress. For Todd to wreck it for Billy like he did is unfathomable. Especially considering the past few months, where Todd has really grown as a character. He is capable of compassion, love and friendship. He isn't all manipulative and selfish, he was willing to put his own happiness aside so he wouldn't hurt Sean. He has really improved as a person, so him turning back to his evil ways again is not only depressing, it's also bad writing. How can they just undo all the progress he's made just like that?! It's sad, because the show was about to redeem him, but then he goes and does this. I'm just so disappointed in him. I have defended Todd before, but I can't know. Todd was so out of line calling the bishop, it was cruel and selfish and he didn't think about the consequences and how this might affect Billy. What gets me is that he didn't ask Billy how he feels about it, he just assumes something and is terribly, terribly wrong about it.

You're right, maybe Todd calling the bishop was somehow part of his plan. He just didn't think it properly through to realize it could backfire. Or Todd just did it because as the self-righteous person he is he didn't want Billy to be a part of an institution that doesn't accept gays, he probably thought he did Billy a favor, but again, he should have asked Billy, he shouldn't assume things.

The reason I'm slightly optimistic about this Todd/Phelan thing (though it doesn't look good considering the spoilers) is that like you say Todd alining himself with Phelan makes no sense. He has been trying to expose him for months, and now he changes sides just because Billy broke up with him? Come on, I just don't buy it. Though with Todd you never know. He makes rash decisions and doesn't really think through the consequences of his actions.

I hope you're right that Todd won't be a total asshole and protagonist because I liked the progress he's made lately too much for him to just go back to his evil, conniving, manipulative self. I liked seeing him be nice and caring to other people. I don't mind him having that manipulative streak as long as he uses it for good (like taking down Phelan), or if he says stupid things, he wouldn't be Todd otherwise. I just don't like to see him lie, cheat or manipulate the people in his life, like Billy. That is too evil, too cruel, it's taking it too far. It's like they're begging people to hate on Todd again for being a selfish asshole while of course making a nice edit for Sean so viewers can sympathize with him, ugh.

I like your theories, that maybe he broke up with Billy on purpose to get an excuse to join Phelan or because he was worried for Billy's safety. I'm not sure it's very likely though. Out of the theories you propose I could maybe see the last one, about it being an excuse to move back with Eileen being the most realistic. That said, I don't think there is something more behind it, I think the spoilers are pretty straightforward. He did it to protect Billy from the "evil church" that won't accept two gay men living together, he was just "saving" Billy from the injustice. I can't believe he even thought this would be a good idea, he must be an idiot, but ok.

About the filming.. I think that will air next week, when they break up. I don't think they have filmed more after that. That said, I agree with you that I don't think the relationship is over for good, despite what Todd did Billy still has feelings for him. He won't forgive him easily, but hopefully Todd thinks Billy is worth fighting for. He will need to regain his trust again though, it won't be easy, he has to prove himself, prove he loves him, that he is sorry, that was he did was wrong. It will take time but it's not impossible. Like you I think there will be more twists and turns coming up for them.

[atlanticslide]

I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out at this point. Spoilers can be misleading, but even if these ones aren't I'm trying to keep in mind all of the terrible things Robert did over on Emmerdale, especially to Aaron, and look where they are now. I saw someone on Tumblr say this and I think it's a good point, that the show has spent so much time on Todd and Billy as a couple, bringing them together and showing us how much they care for one another and how Todd really is genuine in his feelings for Billy to totally end the relationship so quickly.

The religion thing and how much Todd respects and accepts Billy's job is a tricky one. With Sean, it seems like he always respected Billy's feelings about his religion and the rules Billy lived under, but had issues with the amount of time and attention that the actual day-to-day work and responsibilities of Billy's job took up (and was hurt by the idea of having to pretend they weren't together when at church functions). Todd, on the other hand, seems like he accepts that Billy's job may take up a lot of his time, but is struggling with the actual religious aspect of it. He's made some quips in the past, including to Billy, demonstrating his disdain for religion (I think there was once he said something about how Billy "lies for a living" and when Billy took offense Todd shrugged it off as "we'll just agree to disagree"), and much as it was just a dumb joke, his "Bishop's petticoats" line was rather disrespectful. Thinking about it more, I wonder if there's any particular reason behind Todd's disdain for religion, which could be interesting if they explored that considering his feelings for Billy.

[overtherainbow]

Sept 7, 2016 16:50:33 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I'm just going to wait and see how it plays out at this point. Spoilers can be misleading, but even if these ones aren't I'm trying to keep in mind all of the terrible things Robert did over on Emmerdale, especially to Aaron, and look where they are now. I saw someone on Tumblr say this and I think it's a good point, that the show has spent so much time on Todd and Billy as a couple, bringing them together and showing us how much they care for one another and how Todd really is genuine in his feelings for Billy to totally end the relationship so quickly.

The religion thing and how much Todd respects and accepts Billy's job is a tricky one. With Sean, it seems like he always respected Billy's feelings about his religion and the rules Billy lived under, but had issues with the amount of time and attention that the actual day-to-day work and responsibilities of Billy's job took up (and was hurt by the idea of having to pretend they weren't together when at church functions). Todd, on the other hand, seems like he accepts that Billy's job may take up a lot of his time, but is struggling with the actual religious aspect of it. He's made some quips in the past, including to Billy, demonstrating his disdain for religion (I think there was once he said something about how Billy "lies for a living" and when Billy took offense Todd shrugged it off as "we'll just agree to disagree"), and much as it was just a dumb joke, his "Bishop's petticoats" line was rather disrespectful. Thinking about it more, I wonder if there's any particular reason behind Todd's disdain for religion, which could be interesting if they explored that considering his feelings for Billy.

Maybe Todd's reaction does make sense and isn't out of character. You're right, he has shown disdain for religion before. It's just.. I expected more from him. It's so frustrating because he is a smart guy who is constantly making bad decisions. He acts out, he does things without thinking of the consequences. It's like he self destructs as a way to protect himself, like he will never allow himself to be happy. He pushes people away. Heck, he probably thinks Billy is better off without him. I'm still flabbergasted by the spoiler though. I assumed it would be Phelan or Sean telling the bishop about Todd living there. Never in a million years did I thought it would be Todd. Him calling the bishop is just so unbelievably cruel and selfish and it just proves he doesn't know Billy at all. So again, yes, while maybe you are right, maybe it isn't out of character for Todd to do this, because he hates the church's view on gay relationships, it was still an incredibly stupid thing to do. Like what would he think would happen when Billy found out?! I know he probably regrets doing it, hence why he's "torn", but by that point it's too late. Billy has already dumped him. 

I don't like Todd calling the bishop mainly because of three reasons: character development, Todd and Billy's connection and Sean.

I feel like Todd has grown a lot in the last few months. He has shown that he's capable of compassion, love and friendships. He has shown that he isn't just selfish, manipulative, arrogant, bitter and cynical. He actually can be a decent person too. He has shown he is capable of selfless acts, like taking back the love confession to Billy because he didn't want to hurt Sean. He was willing to put his own happiness aside. Todd isn't all bad, and he has shown enormous growth as a character these last few months. It's so refreshing to see him getting along with, and actually caring about other people, like Tracy, Billy, Sarah, Sean etc. I feel like all that character progress is now going to waste by him reverting back to his old "evil" self. I don't like it one bit.  

And then to make matters worse the show is determined to make us feel sorry for Sean, it's like no matter what he does we should always forgive him. But with Todd they just make him more and more evil and harder and harder to forgive. I feel like the viewers were finally starting to warm to him as a character too (by showing that softer side). That's why it's so frustrating to see him self destruct like this. Billy having a go at Sean is just another proof of the sick, biased writing on this show, again for the viewers to feel sorry for Sean, especially when the truth finally comes out. It's like no matter what happens Sean always comes out on top. On the other hand the viewers will hate Todd more than ever, they'll be like "how could Todd do that, how could he be so cruel?"

When it comes to Todd and Billy's connection, I just thought Todd knew how much the church means to Billy. I thought he understood that being a vicar is important to him, that there is a reason he hasn't left the church. I know Todd disagrees a lot with the church, but I always thought he respected Billy enough to realize Billy will never stop being a vicar. Todd calling the bishop is not only cruel and selfish, it also proves he doesn't know Billy at all. I have been defending this relationship over the past few months but now I'm not sure the relationship was ever as good as I assumed it was. Silly me actually thought Billy and Todd had a connection, that they understood each other, respected each other and accepted each other with flaws and all. Guess I was wrong, and I guess Dan Brocklebank (Billy) was right when he said it was all based on "lust" and not much more, sigh.

Last but not least I want to reply to your comment about the spoiler, whether Todd actually teams up with Phelan or not. Although you're right that spoilers can be misleading, sadly in this case I don't think they are. I'd love to see Todd team up with Phelan in a way to get closer to him and the information he needs to take him down, basically being a mole. It would be nice to finally be able to root for Todd, especially after doing something so incredibly stupid by calling the bishop and ruining his relationship with Billy. Sadly though, the more I read the spoilers the more I think that's not the case. I think it's pretty straight forward. Todd teams up with Phelan because he's got nothing left to lose, so why not be a bad boy and make some money in the process? People have already given up on him anyway. I don't like this though because I think seeing him trying to take down Phelan would be a lot more interesting and exciting to watch. Instead he is turning into another cliche, another evil villain, who is hard to root for. I still think the show redeeming him after what happens with Billy would be the smart thing to do though, maybe it could even lead to them getting back together, instead of him turning into the "bad guy" as a self fulfilling prophecy. 

[overtherainbow]

I lowkey think Daniel will be gay. Possibly even Todd's new bf.

[overtherainbow]

I'm upset Todd will quit the flower shop. I know it makes sense considering he's teaming up with Phelan and scamming people will be his job from now on. I still don't like it though. I really like their friendship. Their banter is priceless.

[overtherainbow]

I'm sad that Billy won't hear Todd out, though not surprised after what Todd did. I'm glad that they finally get to talk at the A&E though. If this leads to Todd finally coming to his senses I'm all for it. Looks like he realises he wants Billy back and hence he needs to quit working with Phelan.

[cheerios]

I'm glad to see them talking for a bit and Todd pulling his head out of his behind and realize what's really important. I wonder if Billy pulls away after the stunt Todd pulled, than Phelan does something horrible to Todd which brings Billy back into Todd's orbit?

[overtherainbow]

Sept 19, 2016 2:43:20 GMT -5 cheerios said:

I'm glad to see them talking for a bit and Todd pulling his head out of his behind and realize what's really important. I wonder if Billy pulls away after the stunt Todd pulled, than Phelan does something horrible to Todd which brings Billy back into Todd's orbit?

Yeah, either that or Eileen or someone else they care about has been hurt. They are both dressed very casually so I'm curious about why.

I'm glad too that Todd realises what is important and that he is better than this scam with Phelan. It's funny because Todd likes to play the bad guy but he is actually good deep down. He feels guilty about scamming Alex for example. So he clearly isn't all bad. He just needs to think before he acts and stop making stupid decisions. He can be very impulsive.

[overtherainbow]

I'm very excited about these new spoilers. Todd is finally coming to his senses as he realizes he wants Billy back. And he wants to back out of the deal but Phelan and Vinny threaten him to continue. But I'm confused about why they end up in the A&E in the first place? And is he in on Phelan paying for Billy's trip, or does he find out after the fact and begrudingly goes along with it? Billy thinks it was him who paid for the trip, so I can see why Todd doesn't want to tell him the truth. He is so close to getting him back, for Billy to warm up to him again, it would risk everything. I wonder though will Todd go along with Billy on the trip? Because the spoilers for the first week of October are out and they mention Eileen a lot, but not Todd? Eileen seems very involved with the business so I wonder if it's because has gone away with Billy? Wishful thinking maybe, idk. The spoilers are all very cryptic. The detailed spoilers aren't out yet for that week, so I guess we'll see.

[atlanticslide]

I've been thinking that the trip to A&E is probably just a random accident that throws them together long enough to talk things out and probably not significant beyond that (like, I don't think it's an indication of one of them being seriously hurt - the spoilers said something about Todd helping at a church function before they end up in the A&E waiting room so I figured it was some sort of minor accident that happens there). As for Todd not telling Billy that Phelan paid for the trip, maybe it's because Billy is so pleased by the thought of Todd having paid for the trip and Todd doesn't want to burst that bubble?

[overtherainbow]

Sept 24, 2016 17:38:20 GMT -5 atlanticslide said:

I've been thinking that the trip to A&E is probably just a random accident that throws them together long enough to talk things out and probably not significant beyond that (like, I don't think it's an indication of one of them being seriously hurt - the spoilers said something about Todd helping at a church function before they end up in the A&E waiting room so I figured it was some sort of minor accident that happens there). As for Todd not telling Billy that Phelan paid for the trip, maybe it's because Billy is so pleased by the thought of Todd having paid for the trip and Todd doesn't want to burst that bubble?

I agree with all of this. They probably end up in the A&E from someone having a minor accident of sorts. Apparently they're working on a community project together so it would make sense. And about the trip.. I've read two conflicting spoilers, one made it seem like Todd was in on it, while the other made it seem like Todd found out after and he was angry with Phelan. I think either way he will get away with it though, because if Billy thinks he paid for the trip that means he's warming up to Todd and they're one step closer to getting back together. Todd would risk everything by telling him the truth, Billy would just be mad at him again. I read another spoiler saying Phelan wins Billy over so basically he thinks the scam is legit now, so Todd telling him about it isn't an option either.

That said, I sadly think these two are doomed. Restarting a relationship based on more lies is never a good thing, all the secrets will eventually come out. What happens when Billy finds out he went into the scam willingly? And I don't see how they will be able to redeem Todd either? How will he get out of this scam? I can only possibly see two ways out of this for him, either he switches sides and takes them down from the insides, or he dies. Hopefully it won't be the latter.

[overtherainbow]

Another baby storyline.. really?! It's SO boring. Why do they always do this to gay couples on tv? It's just so lazy. They could have done so much else with Todd & Billy besides burdening them with a kid, smh.

[cheerios]

Any new spoilers?

All I have heard is that something big-ish from Billy's past is gonna come back up. And that Billy is gonna show some new sides to himself.