Skam

[kevvoi]

Maybe three times will be the charm:

[Hawthorne]

Quite a stunning and exciting development! Even clearly had wanted it be just him and Isak. And it turns out there's some cracks in his relationship with Sonja. I don't know where things go from here. So far Isak always seems to experience one step back for every two forward, so maybe the next episode will be a little discouraging.

Also, the fact that they recreated the pool scene from Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet (complete with the same song) is concerning considering how that story ends. I think there's definitely reason to be worried. To me, the story seems too light and too full of humor to have one or both of the them die at the end. Hopefully, the Romeo and Juliet parallels extend only so far.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 28, 2016 15:58:04 GMT -5 ferdavid said:

Whs? What do you mean by deceased, because of what?

Because of the kiss!

[kevvoi]

Clip reposted:

[Zathras]

Well, I must admit I didn't actually expect that to happen today. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Definitely looked to me that Even had intended it to be just him and Isak. I would guess Sonja (or both Sonja and Emma) invited themselves.

[mizuryuu]

But surprised at this clip. But the whole Sonja/Emma situation is going to blow up. One or both of them will do something to hide their feeling from their girlfriends and it will probably hurt the other person badly...

[overtherainbow]

I've seen a theory that maybe Even is bipolar. It would explain A LOT, why he transferred schools, why he had to retake a year, why his behavior is so YOLO all the time.

[Hawthorne]

Perhaps Even does have some disorder. Perhaps he is dying or at risk of dying. Him bitching at Sonja for "monitoring" him could relate to that. Perhaps she is overprotective because of his problem. And it could indeed be connected to the reason Even changed schools for his final year.

Of course, Even could be perfectly fine. If he has a problem, though, we should get some stronger hints of it in the near future.

[overtherainbow]

That new kiss clip literally made me sob. OH MY GOD.

[lexmoon]

[Hawthorne]

Incredibly beautiful, tender scene. But...

"You can't escape your thoughts. The only way is death."

Oh, dear. For me this is confirmation that the story will be going someplace dark. "That's dark," Isak said to Even. Yes it is. And now there's just been too many signs pointing in a dark direction. Take a look at Even's t-shirt. It's Jesus, yes, but dying or dead Jesus. Even, I think, suffers from depression. The world is too painful for him or something.

There's always the possibility, of course, that the writers are faking us out. Maybe they want us to worry about a tragic ending, but at the last moment everything works out. A suicide that actually happens is pretty heavy for a show aimed at teens and suicide among gay teens is epidemic. What kind of impact would it have on gay teens watching if Even really kills himself? It seems to me irresponsible to dramatize a successful gay teen suicide, so maybe the story will be that Isak's love saves Even. Let's hope so.

[justinate]

The last two clips have been lovely, very sweet and tender between the boys ... although I note that, unlike Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet, the pool scene did not lead to them having sex. I'm not sure if they did so offscreen, as a concession to Isak's portrayer's age - but I can't see why they would when neither graphic sex nor nudity were necessary to that scene (and didn't feature in the original either). I still can't shake off my wariness after the way the season started off.

But there is definitely a dark cloud hanging over them. I tend to think Even is under treatment for some mental illness - whether it's depression or something more severe like bipolar remains to be seen. Sonja was probably concerned about how those medications might react with alcohol. And remember the scene with Sana where she seemingly likened homosexuality to a mental illness in front of Isak - that could have been foreshadowing as well.

To be fair to her, I don't think Sana is necessarily homophobic. I think she went on the defensive when she misinterpreted Isak as attacking her particular religion for being homophobic, when in fact he was referring to religion in general since he had just received those biblical quotes from his mum (obviously Sana didn't know about that). And so she chose to highlight that homophobia isn't unique to Islam but even in rational scientific thought you can wind up with the conclusion that homosexuality is a disorder. Obviously, if she's aware Isak is gay, this was really the worst thing she could say to him - but maybe she blurted it out unthinkingly because she was sick of (what she miscontrued as) Islamophobia, or maybe she genuinely doesn't realize Isak is gay. I'm going to cut her some slack until we see how she actually reacts to a coming-out.

It could be that the show intends to highlight the prevalence of depression and suicide among gay teens, as a problem that we need to talk about and resolve effectively. That might mean Even tragically killing himself but in the process imparting a lesson to Isak and the other teens (and the adults) about why we should tackle these issues, and that could lead to Isak finding the strength to come out. I'd like to believe that is the worst-case scenario because having both gay characters die is just depressing and fails to achieve anything. Yes, Isak would be a prime candidate for suicide if he loses his boyfriend and faces a homophobic mother, but it would be much more empowering if he overcomes these challenges with his friends' help. And I think Jonas and Sana are going to play a key role here, maybe even Eskild since we heard about another side to him in the latest clip, where he rescued a homeless Isak.

[lovethetree]

Oct 29, 2016 11:09:29 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

Incredibly beautiful, tender scene. But...

"You can't escape your thoughts. The only way is death."

Oh, dear. For me this is confirmation that the story will be going someplace dark. "That's dark," Isak said to Even. Yes it is. And now there's just been too many signs pointing in a dark direction. Take a look at Even's t-shirt. It's Jesus, yes, but dying or dead Jesus. Even, I think, suffers from depression. The world is too painful for him or something.

There's always the possibility, of course, that the writers are faking us out. Maybe they want us to worry about a tragic ending, but at the last moment everything works out. A suicide that actually happens is pretty heavy for a show aimed at teens and suicide among gay teens is epidemic. What kind of impact would it have on gay teens watching if Even really kills himself? It seems to me irresponsible to dramatize a successful gay teen suicide, so maybe the story will be that Isak's love saves Even. Let's hope so.

I dont think the t-shirt has anything else to do than showing that he is wearing Isaks clothes considering we have already seen that shirt on Isak.

[mizuryuu]

I love the kissing scene, but yeah, the conversation is clearly foreshadowing something dark coming up. I think this is going to end up with Even dead from suicide and Isak dealing with that. I hope I'm wrong, but that Even seems to have some very dark thoughts that could easily lead to suicide if this whole Even/Isak thing blows up like it likely will.

I don't think they had sex yet. It seems like they are just at the start of the relationship and mostly cuddling and kissing. Maybe they will show them having sex in the future, but I don't think they did it last night

[LadyArmand]

Oct 29, 2016 11:09:29 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

Incredibly beautiful, tender scene. But...

"You can't escape your thoughts. The only way is death."

Oh, dear. For me this is confirmation that the story will be going someplace dark. "That's dark," Isak said to Even. Yes it is. And now there's just been too many signs pointing in a dark direction. Take a look at Even's t-shirt. It's Jesus, yes, but dying or dead Jesus. Even, I think, suffers from depression. The world is too painful for him or something.

There's always the possibility, of course, that the writers are faking us out. Maybe they want us to worry about a tragic ending, but at the last moment everything works out. A suicide that actually happens is pretty heavy for a show aimed at teens and suicide among gay teens is epidemic. What kind of impact would it have on gay teens watching if Even really kills himself? It seems to me irresponsible to dramatize a successful gay teen suicide, so maybe the story will be that Isak's love saves Even. Let's hope so.

The impact would depend on why/if Even commits suicide. If he does it because he's gay, then I agree with you that it's irresponsible and sends the complete wrong message to young gay viewers and to all viewers in general. However, if he does it because he is bipolar and in a depressive state, then it could be educational when it comes to metal illness in young people and how it can be misdiagnosed or ignored because people don't want to believe someone so young could have a chemical imbalance.

But then again, this could all be a red herring and Even is perfectly fine and just has issues. I'm personally hope he just has issues.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 29, 2016 23:21:23 GMT -5 LadyArmand said:

Oct 29, 2016 11:09:29 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

Incredibly beautiful, tender scene. But...

"You can't escape your thoughts. The only way is death."

Oh, dear. For me this is confirmation that the story will be going someplace dark. "That's dark," Isak said to Even. Yes it is. And now there's just been too many signs pointing in a dark direction. Take a look at Even's t-shirt. It's Jesus, yes, but dying or dead Jesus. Even, I think, suffers from depression. The world is too painful for him or something.

There's always the possibility, of course, that the writers are faking us out. Maybe they want us to worry about a tragic ending, but at the last moment everything works out. A suicide that actually happens is pretty heavy for a show aimed at teens and suicide among gay teens is epidemic. What kind of impact would it have on gay teens watching if Even really kills himself? It seems to me irresponsible to dramatize a successful gay teen suicide, so maybe the story will be that Isak's love saves Even. Let's hope so.

The impact would depend on why/if Even commits suicide. If he does it because he's gay, then I agree with you that it's irresponsible and sends the complete wrong message to young gay viewers and to all viewers in general. However, if he does it because he is bipolar and in a depressive state, then it could be educational when it comes to metal illness in young people and how it can be misdiagnosed or ignored because people don't want to believe someone so young could have a chemical imbalance.

But then again, this could all be a red herring and Even is perfectly fine and just has issues. I'm personally hope he just has issues.

I agree with all of this. I've also said it before: being gay has so many negative connotations to it. We know many gay teens struggle with their sexualities, we know many gay teens commit suicide, or at least try. Do we REALLY need to see that?! I think what gay kids need is hope, to see good role models on tv. They need to see that gay people can be just as successful as straight people, and that gay people can have just as loving and fulfilling relationships as straight people. That's why I have an issue with this. IF Even is depressed because he's gay and then tries to, or does commit suicide, it sends an entirely wrong message. That gay kids are doomed to be miserable and depressed and that there is no hhope. It can lead to more suicides. The opposite of what I'm sure was their intention. As I said, kids need HOPE, they don't need to see even more depressing stories about gay teenagers struggling. They could avoid all of this though with Even maybe contemplating or trying to commit suicide, but they stop him and he gets help? That way they would send a message, but a message saying "we know you are struggling, but you are not alone". I think that is the only way this could ever turn out good.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 29, 2016 13:25:49 GMT -5 justinate said:

The last two clips have been lovely, very sweet and tender between the boys ... although I note that, unlike Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet, the pool scene did not lead to them having sex. I'm not sure if they did so offscreen, as a concession to Isak's portrayer's age - but I can't see why they would when neither graphic sex nor nudity were necessary to that scene (and didn't feature in the original either). I still can't shake off my wariness after the way the season started off.

But there is definitely a dark cloud hanging over them. I tend to think Even is under treatment for some mental illness - whether it's depression or something more severe like bipolar remains to be seen. Sonja was probably concerned about how those medications might react with alcohol. And remember the scene with Sana where she seemingly likened homosexuality to a mental illness in front of Isak - that could have been foreshadowing as well.

To be fair to her, I don't think Sana is necessarily homophobic. I think she went on the defensive when she misinterpreted Isak as attacking her particular religion for being homophobic, when in fact he was referring to religion in general since he had just received those biblical quotes from his mum (obviously Sana didn't know about that). And so she chose to highlight that homophobia isn't unique to Islam but even in rational scientific thought you can wind up with the conclusion that homosexuality is a disorder. Obviously, if she's aware Isak is gay, this was really the worst thing she could say to him - but maybe she blurted it out unthinkingly because she was sick of (what she miscontrued as) Islamophobia, or maybe she genuinely doesn't realize Isak is gay. I'm going to cut her some slack until we see how she actually reacts to a coming-out.

It could be that the show intends to highlight the prevalence of depression and suicide among gay teens, as a problem that we need to talk about and resolve effectively. That might mean Even tragically killing himself but in the process imparting a lesson to Isak and the other teens (and the adults) about why we should tackle these issues, and that could lead to Isak finding the strength to come out. I'd like to believe that is the worst-case scenario because having both gay characters die is just depressing and fails to achieve anything. Yes, Isak would be a prime candidate for suicide if he loses his boyfriend and faces a homophobic mother, but it would be much more empowering if he overcomes these challenges with his friends' help. And I think Jonas and Sana are going to play a key role here, maybe even Eskild since we heard about another side to him in the latest clip, where he rescued a homeless Isak.

I agree with you on the abscence of a sex scene. That was hypocritical. All the other characters on this show gets to have sex except the gay characters. Once again the gay characters are presented as asexual. I just find it so unrealistic. ALL teenagers have raging hormones, and especially guys, who are basically horny all the time. Are you really telling me that gay teenageers don't have the same sex drive as straight teenagers? LOL. It's ridiculous and not true. I feel like this is yet another cop out. As much as I did enjoy the kissing scene, and as intimate as it was, I still feel something was missing. I really hope they will at least have one sex scene before the end, but I'm not exactly optimistic at this point. They had their one chance in that Saturday clip, but they clearly decided against it. They clearly wanted to present Isak as asexual and gay. If they wanted to portray that Isak is different from Eskild in that he wants love and not sex, they failed, because newsflash love doesn't exclude sex. One last thing: I wish this storyline was more about Isak and less about Even. I feel there is too much going on, with the whole Even depression thing. I would have preferred it if they could focus more on Isak and I just don't get why they would include a depression storyline. It's literally the last thing I wanted to see, despite how realistic it might be.

[Hawthorne]

Since Even is not out as gay or bisexual, I think it would be extremely difficult to take him from where he is at the moment to suicide without there being some connection to his sexuality. If he was open, out and proud, then he could have a breakdown that has no connection to his relationship with with Isak.

Next week the boys likely deal with a lot of people's anger. I'm a little concerned about how isolated Isak would be if his friends pushed him away. We're focused on a possible Even suicide, but Romeo+Juliet, of course, ends with a double suicide. Maybe Even convinces Isak that dying together would be romantic? I'm not sure how the show could responsibly pull that off.

Hopefully all these concerns are unwarranted. The boys could weather any storm if they turned to each other for support. Even should just break up with Sonja if he is truly interested in Isak. And Isak would be better off finding out which of his friends can accept him for who he is and which can't.

Oct 29, 2016 15:30:31 GMT -5 lovethetree said:

I dont think the t-shirt has anything else to do than showing that he is wearing Isaks clothes considering we have already seen that shirt on Isak.

For me, there is nothing random in a scripted drama.

[kevvoi]

New clip courtesy of Isak&Even Skam:

[Zathras]

Yeah, part 16 was very sweet. Just being there together. And from part 17 clearly Even stayed a long time. Even didn't really care to respond to Sonja. I noticed that Emma didn't seem to be trying to contact Isak (though neither one reacted to every phone vibration so it's hard to say for sure).

I'm not quite sure how much to be concerned about Even's comments. "You can't escape your thoughts. The only way is by death." That's really dark and concerning about his state of mind. And the note he left for Isak, "sleep is the cousin of death." It does seem he has dark thoughts and maybe dark dreams. It does kind of seem to fit the naive picture in my mind of how depression manifests itself.

The unfortunate part is that I doubt Isak understands or knows how to cope with a guy who may have mental issues. The really unfortunate part is that Isak might not have anyone he can lean on for help. Maybe Eskild would be understanding; not sure about Noora. Apparently they both were waiting for Isak to come out of his room so they may already be wondering. I would hope Isak felt he could lean on them - if nobody else - for help if he needed it. Part of me wonders if wanting/trying to get help for Even is what pushes Isak out of the closet.

Of course my question is "what happens next?" I'm very curious now...

[overtherainbow]

Oct 30, 2016 8:15:28 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

Since Even is not out as gay or bisexual, I think it would be extremely difficult to take him from where he is at the moment to suicide without there being some connection to his sexuality. If he was open, out and proud, then he could have a breakdown that has no connection to his relationship with with Isak.

Next week the boys likely deal with a lot of people's anger. I'm a little concerned about how isolated Isak would be if his friends pushed him away. We're focused on a possible Even suicide, but Romeo+Juliet, of course, ends with a double suicide. Maybe Even convinces Isak that dying together would be romantic? I'm not sure how the show could responsibly pull that off.

Hopefully all these concerns are unwarranted. The boys could weather any storm if they turned to each other for support. Even should just break up with Sonja if he is truly interested in Isak. And Isak would be better off finding out which of his friends can accept him for who he is and which can't.

Oct 29, 2016 15:30:31 GMT -5 lovethetree said:

I dont think the t-shirt has anything else to do than showing that he is wearing Isaks clothes considering we have already seen that shirt on Isak.

For me, there is nothing random in a scripted drama.

But how do you explain Even most likely being depressed? And then all the Romeo and Juliet parallells? This can't end well, surely? All signs lead to him committing suicide, or at least trying.

[Hawthorne]

I like how Isak's roommates were on him like flies within seconds of him opening his door. Noora just happens to be cleaning the wall opposite his door. That's hilarious! That's the thing about this show that throws me - there's so much humor and yet we keep getting these hints of dark things to come. Is it a romantic comedy or a tragedy? The two don't really mix well together. I wasn't happy that Even's note contained another reference to death. That line, "I don't sleep 'cause sleep is the cousin of death" is from the NAS song, "N.Y. State of Mind." Another line from that song states that, "Life is parallel to Hell." Hmm...

I hope that Eskild is mature enough to know that Isak needs support and guidance right now. Him and Noora could be the support team Isak badly needs. I hope we see that happen.

Isak's lack of clothes suggest to me that something sexual did happen between him and Even. I assume Even was also undressed before he left. I'm OK with them not showing the sex given how young the actor playing Isak is.

[overtherainbow]

Oct 30, 2016 11:56:33 GMT -5 Hawthorne said:

I like how Isak's roommates were on him like flies within seconds of him opening his door. Noora just happens to be cleaning the wall opposite his door. That's hilarious! That's the thing about this show that throws me - there's so much humor and yet we keep getting these hints of dark things to come. Is it a romantic comedy or a tragedy? The two don't really mix well together. I wasn't happy that Even's note contained another reference to death. That line, "I don't sleep 'cause sleep is the cousin of death" is from the NAS song, "N.Y. State of Mind." Another line from that song states that, "Life is parallel to Hell." Hmm...

I hope that Eskild is mature enough to know that Isak needs support and guidance right now. Him and Noora could be the support team Isak badly needs. I hope we see that happen.

Isak's lack of clothes suggest to me that something sexual did happen between him and Even. I assume Even was also undressed before he left. I'm OK with them not showing the sex given how young the actor playing Isak is.

I'm not. I think it's hypocritical that ALL the other characters on the show get to have sex except the gay ones. It's offensive and borderline homophobic. If they could show Emma give him a bj, why not Even? It doesn't have to be a full on anal sex scene, there is so much they could have done to infer sex, not even make it obvious. Like.. just seeing Even going down and then Isak's face. BTW, the age of consent in Norway is 16.

[lovethetree]

Both Noora and Eva didn't have a sex scene showed on screen before the last episode so throwing out an accusation of homophobia because Isak and Even haven't had sex on screen when we are on episode 5 is quite harsh. Stop screaming homophobia about everything!! It's okay to have an opinion but seriously...

[overtherainbow]

Oct 30, 2016 16:30:33 GMT -5 lovethetree said:

Both Noora and Eva didn't have a sex scene showed on screen before the last episode so throwing out an accusation of homophobia because Isak and Even haven't had sex on screen when we are on episode 5 is quite harsh. Stop screaming homophobia about everything!! It's okay to have an opinion but seriously...

Sorry but I'm allowed to have an opinion. It's fine if you disagree though. I know there is still time left, but IF they don't get a sex scene this season while all the other straight characters do then yeah I find that offensive. I guess we'll see..