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Post by lolaruns on May 3, 2012 12:47:10 GMT -5
Technically the first thing Marlene did upon waking was to complain to Tristan why his kisses suddenly suck. But other than that I think it was a fair punishment that Rebecca had to watch/listen.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on May 3, 2012 14:33:03 GMT -5
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Post by lolaruns on May 3, 2012 15:05:16 GMT -5
The continuity error stuff about the name of the new club is so terrible.
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Post by sonia38 on May 3, 2012 17:20:58 GMT -5
Everytime I see Timo and Leonie I just want to gauge my eyes out, really, they are a waste of screen time but someone must have decided they are great and deserve all this screen time.
Rebecca just give it up already and go find another lesbian to fall in love with and give up on Marlene, seriously she's not even worth it.
Thank God for Charlie and Arno.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 3, 2012 18:10:01 GMT -5
When doesn VL care if the person is worth it. We didn't think that Daniel was worth Jessica's attention and they are together. Same with Dana/Hagen.
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Post by lolaruns on May 3, 2012 19:45:22 GMT -5
Yep, VL has never cared. I remember Dana who pretty much loved and worshipped Hagen from the moment she met him. Did he do anything to "deserve" it? Nope, he was just there and *bam*, she loved him. A lot of VL's couples are based on the people involved (or at least some of them) just somehow knowing instantly. Like Helena falling for Andi on her first meeting, Lydia and Sebastian on their first meeting, Cecile and Leonard on their first meeting, etc. Compared to that it's almost deep that it took Jessica like a month and Daniel saying something nice to her.
I thought about it and it occurred to me, that almost all VL stories have a certain element of that. Kinda like the core for "Forbidden Love" actually aren't "OMG, this is so naughty, but just so hot" type of stories (like Ansgar/Lydia or Ansgar/Viktoria), but rather "There really is no reason/no hope and I should really give up, but I don't or can't". Kinda, even if the stories are "forbidden" most characters don't actually enjoy being forbidden. But they still stick with the love even if it is hard/unhappy making. You even have that in stories where the "forbidden" aspect is kinda debatable. Like Lydia not being able to let go (emotionally) of Sebastian after he was revealed to have boinked her mom, Nico loving Phil even though he was a lying criminal, Helena loving Andi even though he was thought to be a rapist, Jessica loving Daniel even though it seemed like she would have no chance, Dana loving Hagen from the first moment and all the way through even when it seemed completely insane. It's not always as prevalent as it is currently with Marbecca, but I feel like almost every story has this "OK, this is the moment where you should get out if you were a sane person" moment and the person sticks on/keeps on loving anyway.
Not that I think that that justifies having poorly built up instant love couples like Dana -> Hagen. You can still have that WITH some foundation. But on the whole I think this is a big elment that almost every character has to gamble on love.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on May 4, 2012 6:31:22 GMT -5
In the following English-subbed (closed captions) video of yesterday's Marlene/Rebecca scenes, Olli's NL scene with Rebecca can be seen from 1.45... www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxqJDjOCvU
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philos
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Post by philos on May 4, 2012 8:45:21 GMT -5
Yep, VL has never cared. I remember Dana who pretty much loved and worshipped Hagen from the moment she met him. Did he do anything to "deserve" it? Nope, he was just there and *bam*, she loved him. A lot of VL's couples are based on the people involved (or at least some of them) just somehow knowing instantly. Like Helena falling for Andi on her first meeting, Lydia and Sebastian on their first meeting, Cecile and Leonard on their first meeting, etc. Compared to that it's almost deep that it took Jessica like a month and Daniel saying something nice to her. I thought about it and it occurred to me, that almost all VL stories have a certain element of that. Kinda like the core for "Forbidden Love" actually aren't "OMG, this is so naughty, but just so hot" type of stories (like Ansgar/Lydia or Ansgar/Viktoria), but rather "There really is no reason/no hope and I should really give up, but I don't or can't". Kinda, even if the stories are "forbidden" most characters don't actually enjoy being forbidden. But they still stick with the love even if it is hard/unhappy making. You even have that in stories where the "forbidden" aspect is kinda debatable. Like Lydia not being able to let go (emotionally) of Sebastian after he was revealed to have boinked her mom, Nico loving Phil even though he was a lying criminal, Helena loving Andi even though he was thought to be a rapist, Jessica loving Daniel even though it seemed like she would have no chance, Dana loving Hagen from the first moment and all the way through even when it seemed completely insane. It's not always as prevalent as it is currently with Marbecca, but I feel like almost every story has this "OK, this is the moment where you should get out if you were a sane person" moment and the person sticks on/keeps on loving anyway. Not that I think that that justifies having poorly built up instant love couples like Dana -> Hagen. You can still have that WITH some foundation. But on the whole I think this is a big elment that almost every character has to gamble on love. So, your argument means that Chrolli are one of the few exceptions in VL; they are both good guys (with some little problems in the past, specially for Olli) and the didn't fall in love at their first meeting. At least theorically...
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Post by lolaruns on May 4, 2012 9:01:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that necesarily. After all Andi and Phil were good guys too they were just believed to be bad guys. And Jessica or here Rebecca also didn't fall for their objects of affection immediately. I would say they both were within the same time period as Olli fell.
And I'd say the original Chrolli story also had the same "take a gamble on love/stick with it" element for Olli. First when it looked like he had no chance and then again when they were forced to be closeted because of Christian's boxing. That's also where one could have argued that a normal person might have taken a time out/why does it have to be this guy? It's not like Olli could have known/forseen that Christian would work out as a long term relationship just like Dana had no way of really knowing that Hagen really does end up fitting her really well in a steady relationship.
So I would say they still followed the typical forbidden love formula (Gregor und Luise too for example), there are just better and less good executions of it, but I think there is an overarching mood that exists in the vast majority of stories. And it just occured to me that that mood is "take a gamble on love" as opposed to "sneaking around is so hot".
And as part of that formula it is pretty much tradition that you *always* go with the more complicated option. And in fact that traditionally you have to get presented the easier option and you have to reject it in favor of the more complicated one. Kinda like Olli and his one night stand Timo, or Gregor prefering to date Luise despite her family complications over a willing Rebecca, or Andi rejecting Miriam in favor of another round with Helena, or why Jessica wouldn't go for the nice polite and interested photographer guy or why Rebecca wouldn't go for cop lady. It's part of the risk reward system, you always have to reject the easy/safe option. (makes me wonder if that in retrospect means that we should be grateful for Rob because it ensured that Chrolli were still the harder option compared to Chribecca)
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 4, 2012 10:36:18 GMT -5
I think you are right Lolaruns. I just wish they would change the formula. It gets really boring and most times it makes it hard to root for the couple.
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Post by lolaruns on May 4, 2012 11:04:07 GMT -5
Well, it is their foundation And it works a lot of the time after all (again: Chrolli being a pretty typical example). I don't think it's even that rare. I think a lot of other soaps have that element too, that you go for the story with more complications because it has more storyline potential. (which leads to an interesting constellation where if you HATE a character you are actually going to root for them with the easy option because you know if you root for the hard option it means that they'll get lots of screentime and a big story) I think the main difference is that other soaps, particularly American ones have a stronger "the nice one must win in the end" or "the more pitiful one must win in the end" thread. I would say VL isn't completely devoid of it (for example: "the more complicated one must win in the end" doesn't count if the person is straight up villainous like Jens Kramer,Tristan, Eduard, Phil's wife [that's why structurally Helena/Andi was actually very interesting because you could see the show going out of their way to try to on one hand keep Andi nice, but still make him seem shady from Helena's POV to justify why he was still a hard and hence romantic choice for Helena]), but there definitely isn't an "the nicer person must win" thread. Like, Helena wasn't a bad person, but neither was Miriam, so Andi didn't pick Helena because she was nicer, just because she was more complicated (or as it is in VL code: the love was bigger). Just like a lot of those meaningless pop in options like cop lady, fitness center dude, No Limits waiter guy for Helena, photographer guy are generally not evil. Plus, since the show is forbidden love it is pretty much granted that the main characters are going to behave in a way that goes against commonly perceived morality, so you can't really pick based on moral options. As a comparison: On Bold and the Beautiful one of the longest running triangles was Brooke/Ridge/Taylor. The triangle was built almost exclusively on the morality/pity logic. Ridge was with one woman and he would stay with her as long as she was "good", but if she ever effed up, he would dump her and switch partners and then stay with that woman until that woman effed up (or something terrible happened to the other woman and he had to switch partners out of pity). I tend to think that kind of love logic is stupid too, especially if done to such extremes. But it allowed the triangle to go on forever because both sides could claim that Ridge loved them and if it hadn't been for that screwup Ridge would still be with woman X. Something like that is a lot harder to pull on VL and it's also the reason why VL tends to write those larger than life love stories because on VL people constantly pick against their own interest, so you can never claim X is with Y just because of this outside interest. Long story short, I think structurally Chrolli, Marbecca and Daniel/Jessica are very similar stories (just like I would say roughly 80% of all VL getting together stories, just because Chrolli might be the first one you experienced doesn't mean that it wasn't a rip off of Tom/Ulli, Erika/Nina or countless other gay or straight romances that came before it). And Rebecca not being interested in coplady pretty much goes along with that logic. Just like Seb not being really into Sonja or "why doesn't she just stop fighting and get with Ansgar" doesn't work for Tanja. Funnily enough, the many of the few stories that come to my mind that don't follow this formula (excluding the outright villain/no genuine love ones or stories that were no romances at all like Ansgar/Kim) that spring to my mind (for example Matthias/Nathalie/Constantin or Carla/Stella/Charlie) were stories that took place near the end of a characters life cycle and were you could hence believably claim that they were affected by the actor leaving and the story hence not having a "natural" end. One of the positive against the formula examples is actually Nico/Andi/Jana because that ended with nobody ending up with anybody. ETA: The core elements of a VL love story are I think "fighting your feelings" (fe: the early period for Jessica), "being offered and rejecting the easy option while going for a complicated one" (fe: Jessica not going with photographer guy and instead trying to stick with Daniel), "sticking with the love when the circumstances are particularly bad" (fe: Jessica sticking with Daniel even when he was kind of a dick to her after he kissed her) [Daniel meanwhile has already completed "fighting his feelings" and "rejecting the safe option", it's to be seen whether he can do "sticking around in a bad situation" or whether he'll whimp out; or if he has bad luck and a more appealing aka more complicated option comes along]. This doesn't even have to happen in the initial love story part, for example in the case of Lydia/Sebastian most of that happened during the second part after Lydia had dumped Sebastian for his one night stand with her mom.
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Post by lolaruns on May 4, 2012 11:25:05 GMT -5
Also: Chroust boy delivers.
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philos
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Post by philos on May 4, 2012 11:38:56 GMT -5
My dearest, today is the refoundation of OUR Chrolli! No more words needed for me.
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Post by lolaruns on May 4, 2012 11:41:01 GMT -5
Well Olli is going away for 5 weeks now. And I kinda had this sinking feeling that maybe this was Chroust's goodbye present (as he is no longer listed as story consultant for VL as of the March Drehspiegel)
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Trish
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Post by Trish on May 4, 2012 11:56:04 GMT -5
Today was good and sad. It's like the second good bye we've had. First when they went to take care of Olli's mom and now this one.
I think it was a present for Olli's going away for the modeling. I'm glad things are good between them. At the beginning of the show, Olli was still being cold to Chris, even though he told him he was more important than NL. He wasn't acting that way.
I just wonder what logical reason we are suppose to have for them coming out of the bedroom and being on the sofa. It would have made more sense if they just had them falling on the sofa to begin with.
Okay, I'll stop trying to find logic and be happy that we finally got a nice scene with the boys. Still waiting for a real love scene though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 12:16:24 GMT -5
wow after a long time quite good episode but the way Olli's farewell and the final episode of the NL , Chrolli dialogues , have been written makes me even more curious how Olli's involvement in the series and Chrolli after his return from Caribic will look like although chrolli finally got sweet moments, my highlight was the beginning (Ollis dream sequence) and the very end of the episode when Olli turned off the lights , his last look in silence before he leaves the NL nicely played by Jo
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Post by dalphine on May 4, 2012 12:39:32 GMT -5
I loved today's esp. especially those imitate scenes with Chrolli. I didn't understand a word but I enjoyed the esp. The only thing I could have done with out is the 3 teen I'm just not feeling them at all.
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Post by danica on May 4, 2012 12:44:30 GMT -5
I liked today's episode! But first, I was a little scared of what Olli is so cold with Christian - when he withdrew his hand. But then ... two last incredible love scenes (in a flatshare and on the couch) with Chrolli dispelled my fears. Kisses, love scene on the sofa. And with what love Christian looks at Olli. Lovely lovely Chrolli. Thore and Jo are great actors. I love them! However, I came a question: what Olli replied to the offer of Tristan and Marlena? Please, can somebody answer me!
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Post by phoenix-feather on May 4, 2012 12:52:25 GMT -5
Today's episode excelled WAY beyond my expectations! It was nicely played by Jo and Thore.......*applause for the boys* also it made me silently >>> for Olli... the music stops when Olli switches the lights off for the last time in his NoLimits....literally and figuratively....touché....
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Post by catswhiskermcginty on May 4, 2012 12:53:31 GMT -5
I loved today's esp. especially those imitate scenes with Chrolli. I didn't understand a word but I enjoyed the esp. The only thing I could have done with out is the 3 teen I'm just not feeling them at all. My only critique of today's episode was the teens in No Limits especially at Andi's party they seemed out of place there sort of an add on as I don't think they have had a lot to do with Andi at all (please let me know if I am wrong). Otherwise really enjoyed it especially the Chrolli bits I did like Jo at the end but one of my favourite moments apart from the obvious was Arno it was well done and very subtle.
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Post by dalphine on May 4, 2012 12:53:37 GMT -5
It would be nice if someone could give us a little summary of what was said. Thanks in advance.
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philos
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Post by philos on May 4, 2012 12:54:45 GMT -5
I liked today's episode! But first, I was a little scared of what Olli is so cold with Christian - when he withdrew his hand. But then ... two last incredible love scenes (in a flatshare and on the couch) with Chrolli dispelled my fears. Kisses, love scene on the sofa. And with what love Christian looks at Olli. Lovely lovely Chrolli. Thore and Jo are great actors. I love them! However, I came a question: what Olli replied to the offer of Tristan and Marlena? Please, can somebody answer me! lola's (one of you), you can correct me all the time, of course; I've understood that he needs some time for himself before to start his work in the NL, so he accepted the offer (the club will be the new NL, btw), but first he will go modelling for 5 weeks.
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Post by lolaruns on May 4, 2012 12:58:34 GMT -5
He didn't really lay down his decision about the NL. He told them he needed a timeout to figure out what he wants to do with his life. So he'll go on the 5 week photoshoot and then decide. Tristan was a bit miffed I think because the opening is next week so obviously Olli's not gonna be there for that.
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Post by kringsja on May 4, 2012 12:59:22 GMT -5
Waou! I have to admit I was surprised with this episode (a good surprise)! This was so great and a perfect way to make us wait 5 weeks before Olli's return!
I'm not even looking forward to the subtitles. I understood the most important! And for the fisrt time in a long time, I had a smile on my face while I was watching...and okay, a tear in my eye at the end...Anyway, wonderful episode!!
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Post by danica on May 4, 2012 13:02:17 GMT -5
Thank you lolaruns, philos)))) ;D
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