Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 14, 2012 9:16:54 GMT -5
I don't think that she expected to get lucky, but she did want the mood to be romantic, even more so than Olli's plans for him and Christian. I don't remember the mood lighting and candles for thier romantic night, but she was able to grasp what their plans were, even if she didn't keep her from crashing them.
Marlene and Tristan might be fake/drab or whatever, but they are a couple, just like Marlene and Hagen were. I never truly bought Dana sudden attraction to Hagen and I don't buy this one either. However, this is VL and all it takes is a touch or a look for a person to stab their sibling in the back and take their mate. Rebecca's sense of remorse didn't even last a day.
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bero
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Post by bero on Apr 14, 2012 9:19:00 GMT -5
Olli was one of the reasons Chris broke up with Coco, yes. There are many ways to view it and this is were we enjoy watching it. I now lean towards viewing Olli's kiss as a desperate act to prove that he is not falling for Coco but is having gay feelings for Chris, which Chris then reciprocated.
But on a purely emotional level, Olli should think of the hurt that consumed him from the drunken night with Jessica or the kiss with Rebecca since they are more recent. Olli's dialogues and statements could also be more aggressive and he won't be any less supportive of the two girls, just more human less of an angle. He, for instance, could show some anger, something that in a way shows a consistency to Chrolli's story.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 14, 2012 9:28:12 GMT -5
Olli kissed Coco who was in a relationship and he kissed Christian who was in a relationship. And it totally worked out for him.
Neither DanHel nor TriMar are married. Or even together all that long. And Olli has always been the non-judgey type. And honestly considering all the relationships he has seen come and go around him why wouldn't he be?
I still think that whole homewrecker thing is bullshit. You can't steal a person who doesn't want to be stolen. It's up to the person in the relationship to set the boundaries. Especially Daniel because he has known for ages that Jessica wants to seduce him (at the very latest when Jessica did that thing with the spoon and dropped her towel in front of him and Dana).
This aren't Tristan like schemes where he deliberately manipulated the entire world of both couple members. This is just people falling for people who happen to be in relationships and it's up to the objects of affections whether they want to go for it. Especially in the cases of Jessica and Ansgar who are very overt in pursuing their targets. If they objects of affection (Daniel, Viktoria) don't want to be "hunted" they need find a way to make them cut it out.
Yes, we want Olli to be emotional and hurt over this, but the reality is, the show doesn't write him as such. Remember when everybody was counting on Olli having a reaction to Jessica stripping. And he didn't have one? At all? Whether we like it or not, this is how Olli is, this is personality as set out by the writers. It's not just different just because we want to see something else. This is Olli as they decide he is. And that apparently is that he made his peace with Christian and now views people with the same non-judgemental attitude as before. Love is love, what happens happens, with a dose of don't set yourself up for hurt.
Not to mention: Olli practised "Hate the cheater, not the intruder" even before he forgave Christian.
And honestly that IS the right way to go. It's up to the Daniels of the world to ideally not cheat and not lie. There are always going to be Jessicas around. Daniel needs to learn how to keep his hands to himself, not find a way to eradicate all Jessicas of the world. (think of all the nurses and the patients with a doctor complex)
It's a bit different with Marbecca because Marlene doesn't even know yet that Rebecca is interested, but cut her some slack, Rebecca only figured out/admitted she was in love an episode ago.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 14, 2012 9:44:39 GMT -5
Olli was one of the reasons Chris broke up with Coco, yes. There are many ways to view it and this is were we enjoy watching it. I now lean towards viewing Olli's kiss as a desperate act to prove that he is not falling for Coco but is having gay feelings for Chris, which Chris then reciprocated. But on a purely emotional level, Olli should think of the hurt that consumed him from the drunken night with Jessica or the kiss with Rebecca since they are more recent. Olli's dialogues and statements could also be more aggressive and he won't be any less supportive of the two girls, just more human less of an angle. He, for instance, could show some anger, something that in a way shows a consistency to Chrolli's story. I agree with you. He did come between Chris/Coco, but they were having problems before hand, which is why he kissed Coco in the first place. Here these couples are at a good state when, their relationships are new, but should still be respected. I guess we are to think that Olli is a romantic at heart, after all Chris supposedly had no feelings for the persons that he was with, while Rebecca/Jessica feel that they have found the love of their life but someone beat them to it, which is more like his feelings for Chris. Even using that logic. It still makes him overly forgiving, when you think about how totured he was during both situation.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 14, 2012 9:55:16 GMT -5
Olli kissed Coco who was in a relationship and he kissed Christian who was in a relationship. And it totally worked out for him. Neither DanHel nor TriMar are married. Or even together all that long. And Olli has always been the non-judgey type. And honestly considering all the relationships he has seen come and go around him why wouldn't he be? I still think that whole homewrecker thing is bullshit. You can't steal a person who doesn't want to be stolen. It's up to the person in the relationship to set the boundaries. Especially Daniel because he has known for ages that Jessica wants to seduce him (at the very latest when Jessica did that thing with the spoon and dropped her towel in front of him and Dana). This aren't Tristan like schemes where he deliberately manipulated the entire world of both couple members. This is just people falling for people who happen to be in relationships and it's up to the objects of affections whether they want to go for it. Especially in the cases of Jessica and Ansgar who are very overt in pursuing their targets. If they objects of affection (Daniel, Viktoria) don't want to be "hunted" they need find a way to make them cut it out. Yes, we want Olli to be emotional and hurt over this, but the reality is, the show doesn't write him as such. Remember when everybody was counting on Olli having a reaction to Jessica stripping. And he didn't have one? At all? Whether we like it or not, this is how Olli is, this is personality as set out by the writers. It's not just different just because we want to see something else. This is Olli as they decide he is. And that apparently is that he made his peace with Christian and now views people with the same non-judgemental attitude as before. Love is love, what happens happens, with a dose of don't set yourself up for hurt. Not to mention: Olli practised "Hate the cheater, not the intruder" even before he forgave Christian. And honestly that IS the right way to go. It's up to the Daniels of the world to ideally not cheat and not lie. There are always going to be Jessicas around. Daniel needs to learn how to keep his hands to himself, not find a way to eradicate all Jessicas of the world. (think of all the nurses and the patients with a doctor complex) It's a bit different with Marbecca because Marlene doesn't even know yet that Rebecca is interested, but cut her some slack, Rebecca only figured out/admitted she was in love an episode ago. Okay, that's funny. Cut Rebecca slack. Is that because she's going after Marlene and not Christian. I remember all types of words being thrown Rebecca's way when she thought that Christian was man of her dreams and Christian had no clue. Marlene hasn't kissed her yet, but she is brushing her cheek and hugging and giving her presents, just enough for Rebecca to go off the deep end and want her. Yes the cheater does look worse, but to sit by and watch the pursuer spin their web and not try and put a stop to it doesn't make you all innocent. I don't fault Olli, but when you see how dark he got during that time, for him to do a 180 and put his fairy wings back on, just because he's happy in love again, is just stupid. No wanted him to forget what Christian did, but it's okay to forget what Jessica/Rebecca did and allow them to keep doing it over and over, because love is love and if it's strong enough, what they do won't matter. I don't buy that, because at a weak moment anything can happen, or like in the cse of Clarissa if the person is dirty enough, they will make it happen.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 14, 2012 9:56:55 GMT -5
In a good state? Rebecca knows that Marlene tried to keep her pregnancy from Tristan, then when he wanted her to get a paternity test she invented a fake one, had the abortion without having a test and then told him to his face that she would have aborted it even if it was his. She also knows that a reaction Tristan made out with some random casting couch chick. And that doesn't even touch upon the fact that Marlene was still mooning over Hagen when she was technically kinda with Tristan already, that she went up to the hotel suite of Tristan's best friend to have sex and that Tristan had sex with some bar floozy as a reaction. And Daniel? He boinked Jessica one day before getting together with Helena. He totally fell for Nico's superlame intrigue about Helena being an evil heifer who would cheat a dying woman out of her treasures for her own gain. Both couples were pretty terrible before any interloper entered the stage. Way more terrible than Christian and Coco ever were. More importantly, it's not that Olli knew that Christian and Coco were ripe for the picking. The fact that they were allowed him to snag Christian. Just like the fact that the couples in question suck will make it possible that they break up. I also don't understand the logic that it is ok to intrude on couples that are having problems. To me, if anything it's the other way around. If a couple has serious problems, then you should leave them alone because they wouldn't be in a position for a fair fight and fair decision. Isn't it more honorable to fight somebody who is in prime condition than to fight somebody who is already decrepid? IMO Olli has always had a soft spot for those in love. I still remember him going "awwww" over Dana and Tristan. Even if he's in a couple now, he still has a soft spot for the ones still pining. And it is noteworthy that Christian's cheatings with Jessica and Theresa both weren't pining things.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 14, 2012 10:03:47 GMT -5
Not from me. I thought the entire storyline was stupid and pathetic and I just ignored most of it. But I never thought it made Rebecca evil, not on a show that is 99% based on couples like that (including Olli's own story that started out somewhat like that). My main thought of the story was that it was a brain breaking colossal waste of time, not that it was horrible Rebecca manipulating Chrolli. (a much better case can be made for Rob who was more the Tristan type)
Rebecca's crime for me was being annoying, more for her crying and back and forth ness and her attempts at being being honorable about Chrolli. Like in this case, I would actually prefer her to go after Marlene with both barrels (more like Jessica did with Daniel) because at least it would be less annoying than the sap stuff.
Only that in the end Ludwig kissed her of his own free will out of a mood. And Ludwig actually managed to still be sane about it, confess to his wife and eventually present a united front against Clarissa. You know, the way you ought to be. And with the added factor that Clarissa is a Tristan/Rob type and not a sappy Rebecca type.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 14, 2012 10:09:30 GMT -5
I did not that.
They are in a relatively good state. Tristan was all happy that Marlene had made a turn and thanked Rebecca for that. Yes, during the rap and the baby abortion there were problems, but that would be expected. I'm talking about where they are now. Marlene appears to be happy with Tristan, as indicated in the last scene where Rebecca stoo and watched. Very similar to Jessica seeing Daniel/Helena in the stud farm office.
Just like with Ansgar, after months of being apart, they have the Wolfs get back together before throwing him in the mix. I just don't like that it's when the couple has seemed to have turned the corner, that's when the interloper gets thrown into the mix, but the VL mo I guess.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 14, 2012 10:17:11 GMT -5
That was, what, three weeks ago? Four? And they are supposed to be over that? A dead baby and a cheating? After several people explicitly told TriMar they were making a mistake and are just suppressing their issues rather than dealing with it? After the day before Rebecca's return Marlene admitted to her psychiatrist she wasn't really sure she wanted to go into a relationship with Tristan and only went after Dana and everybody else told her to? Yet Olli is supposed to not be over his issues even though way more time has passed? (I think DanHel are different, I think their problem is less that there are big issues between them it's just that after they got together it kinda turned out that they don't really have all that much in common/don't really go all that well together) And ChriCo weren't boinking up a storm and loving the PDA thing around the the time when Olli kissed Coco Both couples are having major issues which are are covering up with sex. That's why Marlene can never shut up about Rebecca even in bed and why the entire relationship of Daniel and Helena consists of sex or talking about Jessica? They ARE ChriCo, down to a t. Of course the interlopers don't necessarily always know that but neither did Olli. They all (including Olli) go for the crapshoot and if the couples suck (which they do) they will fall only too gladly.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 14, 2012 11:11:35 GMT -5
I suppose, but there are plenty of couples that stay together that are just as bad. Whether we think a couple has chemistry has nothing to do with how long they stay together. Look how long Helandi lasted, even if they were on again off again.
As far as getting over a difficult situation, VL is known for doing that. Look how quickly Chrolli would get over things. With Oll, we are suppose to believe he got over Jessica's involvement with the threesome along time ago, but even if he's over it, I can't imagine him letting it happen again and this time actually being a bystander to it all.
I don't know why we are discussing this. It's VL and its their take on drama and their is never any logic to it. It is what it is. I just don't really like it.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 14, 2012 11:21:53 GMT -5
We were discussing this because the implication was that it was wrong that Olli would be nice with Rebecca and Jessica who are in love with taken people.
I think it would be hypocritical for him to judge them harshly when that is exactly how Olli got the love of his life.
I also think it's consistent because Olli has always sided with the yearners.
And I think it's also consistent with his history because Olli didn't have a huge issue with Rebecca, his real issue was with Jessica and then Theresa. Both people who weren't "pining". Jessica wasn't in love with Christian, she didn't stick around him to be with him, she didn't try to be friends with him. She just had sex with him one evening without thought and without planning (since no other explanations ever came forth).
Back then Olli also blamed the cheater and less the interloper (befriended Jessica, never gave a frig about Theresa on a personal level). I also think his problems were a lot more complex than just cheating. After all he said himself that he might have had less of a problem if Christian had cheated with a man. It's not the women's fault if Christian has sex with them. If Olli's real problem was trust or desirability, why should he care about whether Jessica or Rebecca are in love?
You don't have to like that Olli doesn't have a problem with yearners if that isn't your personal morality. But to me that has always been him and it makes sense for him. So I find it neither morally wrong of him to see the point of the onesided in love person, nor do I find it character-way wrong.
Yes, but how many Greek Chorus people were there to inform us that they were just kidding themselves? No, instead the Greek Chorus was telling us to embrace it and rejoice because that's what the writers intended for us to feel.
I also find it stsrange that people would have a real deep problem with pining couples when to me that's how Chrolli started out too and to me that kinda is still the best, most likable, most well written part of their story (though they do get points simply for existing for so long).
But how is that the same at all?
How are in love Rebecca and in love Jessica and in love Jessica/Daniel anything at all like a standalone drunk one night stand (Andi/Jessica/Christian) or a revenge affair (Christian/Theresa).
And was Olli ever really mad at Rebecca for RebChrolli? I thought his real problem in RebChrolli was Rob/Olli's lack of trust in Christian's judgement/Olli not feeling supported enough in his career dreams. If he as a character was never mad at "Oh, this stupid pining girl is ruining my relationship" why would he be mad at stupid pining girls now? You must not confuse what the fans were angry about with what Olli was actually angry about.
Mind: Olli didn't even have a problem with Dana, even though Dana/Hagen happened when Olli's wound was way more fresh. And there were a lot more similarities (most notably Hagen being married). And now he doesn't even have a problem with Dagen taking part in their couple activities and is celebrating their engagement. So Olli can take joy in Dagen's engagement but he's supposed to judge Rebecca for being in love. Why? He never did that before. Whether we like it or not, apparently Olli isn't somebody who carries his personal situation into other people's lives and relationships.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 14, 2012 11:34:03 GMT -5
[MOD POST]
As this is a thread to cover discussion of this past week's episodes, could we please steer this discussion back to that? If you'd rather stick to being more 'general', then please take this discussion over to either 'VL General Discussion', 'VL cast/characters', 'Jo Weil (Olli)' or 'Thore Schölermann (Christian)', depending on where your focus might be from here. Thanks.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 16, 2012 14:35:29 GMT -5
Since this goes through the tenth, I posted this here too. If it doesn't belong, you can delete it Joanna.
Chritian and Olli scenes for 2-10/04/12
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 17, 2012 7:10:32 GMT -5
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 17, 2012 8:13:55 GMT -5
Thanks for posting Joanna.
I understand it's forbidden love, but the way Olli was talking, you would think that Marlene had shown signs of being interested in girls before. Rebecca's problem shouldn't only be that she is her brother's girlfriend.
Olli asked if her problem was because Marlene was a woman, but shouldn't he have asked if the problem was because she might not be into women.
I'm not sure why I'm questioning it though, this is VL, who had no problem having a brother/sister ride off into the sunset.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 17, 2012 8:21:55 GMT -5
Dude, it's Olli. Didn't he encourage Stella to go after Charlie too and try her luck? Maybe he just strongly believes in flexibility that way
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bel7003
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Post by bel7003 on Apr 17, 2012 9:36:38 GMT -5
Andi: "We don't do it in the dining table!" Damn! There goes my Chrolli fantasy #5773! ;D Thanks for posting the vids, Joanna and Trish! I think our guys have been having some really nice scenes together, even if only as background. I wonder how long are VL writers letting them be all lovey-dovey... Anyway, this Marlene/Rebecca thing still doesn't ring well to me. I don't feel the attraction between them. I think Rebecca worked a lot better with Ricardo, but maybe that's only me.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 17, 2012 10:05:31 GMT -5
I liked Rebecca and Ricardo too. It was a more grown up kind of attraction. This is more puppy love. It's a throw back to when she had the crush on Chris. Maybe it will get better if Marlene returns that attraction. I've been liking Marlene more lately, I think it's because she's with Tristan and not Hagen, but in general I still find her a bore. I can't see Rebecca/Marlene as more than friends. I get a strange feeling that in a relationship between them, that Rebecca will do all the heavy lifting, similare to how Miri did in the Miri//Rebecca hook up. I never really bought Rebecca in that one, but Miri sold it.
Does Marlene even know that Rebecca has been with a woman, or is that something that will be kept quiet like Olli was from Christian, until they get close and the info makes Marlene uncomfortable?
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 17, 2012 10:11:52 GMT -5
Rebecca/Ricardo didn't do much for me. I do like Rebecca/Sonja more now at least when they have more personal scenes. They are still boring when they are in "on the job" mode. And I find Marlene/Tristan so bad together I feel like anything would be a step up from that (though I would have prefered somebody new for Tristan). Though mostly I think Marlene could do with a long vacation. Maybe take her mom too Right now, for me the most interesting part about Marlene/Rebecca is that I would love to see Tanja's face when she hears about it
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 17, 2012 10:18:08 GMT -5
That would be interesting to see. I also agree with the Viktoria statement. As I said, I'm not thrilled with Marlen, but she's been a bit better. At this point, I could do without over half cast. The whole show is boring me.
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Post by phoenix-feather on Apr 17, 2012 10:18:21 GMT -5
New-Rebecca doesn't have enough chemistry with Olli how can it be?? Olli has chemistry with everyone!! this is the first time Olli is having less than ideal chemistry with someone....I mean Olli has better chemistry with NoLimits glasses which he wipes so religiously! may be its just me though....
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 17, 2012 10:24:05 GMT -5
That would be interesting to see. I also agree with the Viktoria statement. As I said, I'm not thrilled with Marlen, but she's been a bit better. At this point, I could do without over half cast. The whole show is boring me. I think the Marlene actress is kinda... not very convincing in romantic scenes? Just something about her voice in them and the way she moves. I actually find it worse with Tristan because at least with Hagen you could tell yourself maybe it's supposed to be like that. Plus, I like Tristan quite frequently so it botheres me more here. I for one bought Miribecca. I though Jasmin just popped with Romina and generally seemed more comfortable with girls (like Kim for example). Don't think that is the case with the Marlene actress, she seems equally weird in either. But still, if she "wastes" Rebecca it bugs me less than if she "wastes" Tristan. Simply because NuRebecca is newer. (and it's a more fun storyline to spec about) I still think that the NuRebecca actress has skills. But I think you notice she's from theater. She seems a bit "island". Like I thought she did really well in her solo scene.
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Trish
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Post by Trish on Apr 17, 2012 10:40:32 GMT -5
Didn't know she was from thearter. I do like the nu Rebecca and I don't have the desire to spare Tristan because he's a better actor. I want Tristan to have a love interest. He was terrible before, but he has changed and I think he deserves it. Even if he and Marlene might not be the best combo, which VL doens't base their pairings on, she makes him happy and I don't want him becoming tainted, because he lost her to his sister of all people.
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joanna
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Post by joanna on Apr 17, 2012 10:43:47 GMT -5
[MOD POST]
Hey, guys; can we please steer things back to how they relate to this particular week's episodes? Thanks.
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Post by lolaruns on Apr 17, 2012 10:52:48 GMT -5
Didn't know she was from thearter. I do like the nu Rebecca and I don't have the desire to spare Tristan because he's a better actor. I want Tristan to have a love interest. He was terrible before, but he has changed and I think he deserves it. Even if he and Marlene might not be the best combo, which VL doens't base their pairings on, she makes him happy and I don't want him becoming tainted, because he lost her to his sister of all people. The problem is that I don't buy that they are happy. Because of the fakey-fakey vibe they have. Not to mention she brings out his really unlikable side as illustrated just before with Arno. To me the seem like they should work on paper with both being kinda shallow and snobbish, but to me the reality just doesn't work because of their weird vibe together. So I'm kinda hoping that they do break up before he becomes tainted, because I feel like they are already a pretty tainted couple all by themselves. Even if Rebecca never came around, to me Tristan and Marlene just smack me as the kind of couple who will quietly grow to resent each other while pretending to the public like they still like each other. In that context, I don't find it weird that Marlene might cheat. I guess it's a bit unusual that she would cheat with a woman, but I never really bought that she was happy with Tristan anyway. (so in that sense probably both Rebecca and Tristan would be better off without Marlene and Marlene would be better off with some soul searching not jumping in a new relationship where she's just settling, which I always felt was the case with Tristan, like subconciously she never really wanted to be with him, he just didn't stop courting her and she just went with it eventually) For Marlene, I always thought that for her character the best story would have been if she had rejected Tristan because she just didn't love him enough and then dated somebody completely non-glam, more like Andi. Other than that, I'm mostly stumped that somebody remembered that the Lily storyline existed.
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