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Post by Bonobochick on Apr 7, 2010 12:06:29 GMT -5
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 15, 2010 7:54:08 GMT -5
The E4 episode was VERY tough to watch, but beautiful, stunning dramatic work from Ciaran Griffiths and Sally Carman.
There was some comic relief, mostly from Carl. There was an auction at the Jockey to help Libby's mother Patty find some miracle cure in France so she could walk again. Carl agreed to auction himself off. Lillian as well as Maxine's brother Bruce were the main bidders. Needless to say, Carl wasn't thrilled, especially when Lillian won. She had him clean her living room in nothing but a short apron.
Anyway, Mickey had a strong dramatic storyline for the third consecutive week.
Kelly's half-sister Tonya comes to live with her. Tonya is almost 15. She's trying to get away from their father, Homer. When Homer shows up at the Jockey, Kelly punches him and threatens to kill him if she sees him again. Tonya has a son who has been taken into care and part of getting him back is proving herself by moving in with Kelly. Mickey immediately tries to befriend Tonya. When the social worker gives Tonya a fake baby to raise for a trial period, Tonya gets Mickey to take care of the fake baby while she goes out clubbing. The "baby" won't stop crying and Mickey nearly quits several times, but Kelly promises him money if he will keep acting as parent. Mickey soon begins to bond with the "baby."
Mickey finally confronts Tonya over her negligence and she admits to him she isn't sure if she wants to get her son back or not. She also admits that her father has been forcing her to have sex with him and that her son is also his son. She begs Mickey to stay quiet.
Meanwhile, Kelly sees Homer around the area and threatens him again. When he tells her she can't stop him from seeing Tonya, she says she'll go to the police about his sexual abuse of her. He tells her that he has nothing to fear from her, she has a horrible reputation and he can say she seduced him. He stuffs a dollar bill in her mouth and walks away.
A shattered Kelly goes home and sits down with an equally shattered Mickey. He tells her that he thinks Tonya's son would be better off in care, or being adopted. He also tells her that Homer has abused Tonya, and asks if Homer did the same to Kelly. Kelly later sees Mickey drowning the "baby" in the sink, to fail the test which would help Tonya get her son back.
Mickey sees Homer in the pub and tells him to steer clear. Homer isn't interested. Mickey waits until Homer is in the toilets, and jabs a syringe into his neck. When Homer passes out, Mickey calls Shane. When Homer wakes up, he's gagged and his body is completely wrapped up in cellophane. Mickey tells Homey that he was going to just kill him quickly, but then decided to go slower. As we hear a drill, and Homer screaming through his gag, we fade to black...
Kelly offers Mickey some money for his help with the fake baby but he says they're family. Mickey buys a drink from Bruce and they share a bit of eye contact. Mimi asks where the Maguire men are. Mickey says they went to Liverpool and then are planning on a quick ferry across the Mersey. Kelly remembers that earlier in the episode, Mickey had mentioned he wanted to put her father in cement boots and then drop him in the Mersey. Kelly and Mickey exchange glances as she realizes that he has killed her vile, disgusting father.
Anyway, superb work from the actors involved, tough stuff, but it was another episode where we got to see Mickey dealing with the uglier side of life and emerging stronger for it.
The last scene was Mickey cradling the "baby" as he began to go to sleep. He said goodnight, and the "baby" responds, in a strangled voice, "Nite nite, Daddy." Mickey jumps out of bed.
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nas
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Post by nas on Apr 16, 2010 4:48:55 GMT -5
carld2 I stopped by to see the summary and decide whether it was an episode I want to watch. Having read your account, my answer is a resounding yes! I love the idea of seeing Micky tackle such a serious issue and handling it in a less-than-buffonish way
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 16, 2010 7:38:21 GMT -5
It does sound great. Too bad I can't see it anymore due to a lack of access to the show.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 16, 2010 7:41:25 GMT -5
carld2 I stopped by to see the summary and decide whether it was an episode I want to watch. Having read your account, my answer is a resounding yes! I love the idea of seeing Micky tackle such a serious issue and handling it in a less-than-buffonish way Thanks so much. The subject matter of this episode threw me, but when they actually delved into the story, they did a good job of showing the devastation that Kelly and her sister were put through, and of showing Mickey being pushed to a point where he was going to get this monster out of their lives for good. I think they've done a very good job this year of moving Mickey away from just being the comic relief yet still maintaining his basic character. I've been surprised at the variety of dramatic stuff for him, especially since I was worried he might fade into the background once he gave up on Ian. I hope it will last, as I think he is the best character on the show, and has big potential. After you watch the episode I hope you can say some of your thoughts.
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Post by axelmoto on Apr 18, 2010 12:37:05 GMT -5
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 18, 2010 18:26:21 GMT -5
Finally seeing the episodes. They are better done than the earlier episodes. I am liking the Mickey characterization a lot. This is the underlying complexity that I saw in the character from earlier series that I thought the show was under utilizing. When the show focuses on characterization rather than shock value, it is a great show.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 19, 2010 7:10:37 GMT -5
This is some Ciaran Griffiths interviews and a funny short from 2008.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 21, 2010 6:28:32 GMT -5
E4 episode, the Mickey-related stuff: Paddy was planning to move to Ireland. Mimi and Paddy planned to get divorced, but learned that they'd never actually been married, as the priest was a fraud. Mimi was furious and insisted that Paddy secretly marry her, so their kids wouldn't be illegitimate, then they would divorce. Shane and Jamie didn't seem bothered but Mickey was upset, so Ian and Maxine took him out clubbing. He met a hot guy named Gary and they went back to Gary's nice flat. Mickey was his usual awkward self (when Gary asked what he liked, meaning music, Mickey proceeded to rattle off his preferred sexual practices for a first date), but they hit it off. Mickey lied that he worked in credit collections, or something like that. They had sex (offcamera). Mickey was happy, but when he and Shane had to go threaten a local burger stand, he was shocked to see Gary working there. Gary was bewildered but didn't seem to take it very seriously. Mickey was afraid Shane would rough Gary up, and Gary was about to kiss him, so Mickey headbutted him. Gary didn't mind, and later when they were at what turned out to be his brother's flat, he said he couldn't believe he was sleeping with PADDY Maguire. Mickey and Gary spent a few days together, and Gary, who claimed his brother would want him to move out soon when he got back from his trip, asked if he could move in with "Paddy." Mickey agreed, but was obviously thrown by the whole thing. Paddy and Mickey talked and Mickey said he'd lied to this person and he didn't know what to do. They started talking about Paddy's relationship with Mimi and Mickey asked if he regretted it. Paddy said no. This made Mickey think Paddy still wanted to be with Mimi. Later, Mickey overheard Mimi saying she was going to get married again the next day. He assumed this was to another man, and he decided to break it up, since he thought Paddy still wanted to be with Mimi. Since Mimi had made up a boyfriend named Jack Beam, Mickey, Shane, and Jamie proceeded to look every single J Beam in the phone book and if it was a man, kidnap them and hide them at the slaughterhouse. This scene was pretty funny. Anyway, they finally realized they had even more J Beams to grab and decided to just crash the wedding. They saw that Mimi and Paddy, with Bruce as their best man/matron of honor, were the ones taking the vows. Mimi was going to explain, but Paddy decided to let them think the marriage was for real, it was a vow renewal. Mickey was overjoyed. At the reception, Mimi saw how unhappy Mickey was and convinced him to talk to the "woman" he was dating, as it was obvious he loved "her." Mickey decided to take her advice. But his happy mood didn't last long. Everyone at the reception listened to see if the bed upstairs was creaking. It was -- Mimi and Paddy were making the boxsprings go up and down to pretend they were having sex. Mickey happened to be upstairs and heard them talking, more specifically, he heard them saying that the whole thing was a sham and Paddy wanted to go to Ireland. To make Mickey feel even worse, Shane told him that the guy they'd roughed up at the burger stand was going around saying he was shagging Paddy Maguire! Mickey went to see this guy at the burger place and told him everything -- that he wasn't Paddy, that he was closeted, he wore large furry slippers, he LOVED the Waltons, he had that dog he was a little bit too close with, etc. He basically told the guy off for spreading stories about "Paddy" and the guy had no real reaction beyond a surprised, "You're not Paddy?" Mickey threw him to the ground and told him to keep quiet/stay away. He then funny walked off. I assume the guy just wanted to hook up with a powerful mobster and have somewhere to live because he didn't seem all that interested in following Mickey or saying he cared about Mickey. Mickey went back home and walked in on Paddy and Mimi, who, after talking and crying about Mandy, about their kids and their marriage, had started to kiss and take each other's clothes off. Mickey told them that if they were in love, if they wanted to be together, then fine, but if they were lying or just using each other, or if they were staying together because of him or Shane or Jamie, then to stop, and to stay apart instead of living a lie. They took in what he said and Paddy left for Ireland. The end of the episode was Mimi hearing a news report about every man in the area named J Beam going missing. She smirked and said, "I love my boys." or something like that. Not a great episode, mostly because it's hard to invest that much in Mickey and this guy when they didn't have a lot of scenes and Gary wasn't a very well fleshed out character. I guess this was more about Mickey finally giving up the dream of Paddy and Mimi as happy family. So, another step in Mickey's growing up process. Good for Mickey. The E4 episode looked interesting. It's more Ian-focused than a lot of episodes this series. Ian, Mickey, Carl, and Shane play against a gay soccer team in a match arranged by Bruce. Ian is injured and says "I blew my knee out," and a cute guy on the other team says something like, "Is that all that was blown," and it's obvious he wants Ian, and that Ian may feel the same. They don't actually show if anything happens between them. Meanwhile, Maxine meets an old professor as she works as a nude model. After some eye contact, they show the two of them at Ian's place, Maxine is pushing him onto the bed and ripping his shirt off.
So it looks like that may be the end of the road for the two of them. If so, that's fine with me, although I think the show could have actually done something with them since they went to the trouble of putting them together. And like a lot of stories with this show, it pretty much came out of nowhere, unless they're saying it was a happy relationship but they just got bored and she went for a straight guy while Ian went back to guys. If they break up I'd rather they both cheat, although I guess it would be karma in a way if Maxine cheated on Ian after she cheated on Carl with him.
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 21, 2010 11:28:05 GMT -5
The episode was about Mickey's development in terms of relationship building as much as it was about his relationship with his family or Paddy and Mimi's divorce.
Gart served as a means to an end as well for Mickey's development. They seem to be setting Mickey up as the cornerstone in the family. If you will notice in the last few episodes, he's there for everyone with regards to being their rock of support or helping them make decisions. Whether it is Ian and Maxine, Paddy and Mimi, his brother's wife and the baby, or you name it. Mickey is the one that is a key element of the story in some way.
It is what I wanted to see with Mickey. He's a character that I thought might produce the most complicated stories and he is delivering thus far. Although he's not out, the irony is that he's been set up as the most honest of the lot on the show.
The only other character for whom this sort of character development is happening is the woman (forget her name) who is Frank's girlfriend. The one who sleeps a lot and has the cranky mum. She's the other character that's being given a lot of screen time and development in the stories.
Everyone else feels like they are serial week to week characters rather than major story arcs that move their characters along.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 21, 2010 18:34:32 GMT -5
The episode was about Mickey's development in terms of relationship building as much as it was about his relationship with his family or Paddy and Mimi's divorce. Gart served as a means to an end as well for Mickey's development. They seem to be setting Mickey up as the cornerstone in the family. If you will notice in the last few episodes, he's there for everyone with regards to being their rock of support or helping them make decisions. Whether it is Ian and Maxine, Paddy and Mimi, his brother's wife and the baby, or you name it. Mickey is the one that is a key element of the story in some way. It is what I wanted to see with Mickey. He's a character that I thought might produce the most complicated stories and he is delivering thus far. Although he's not out, the irony is that he's been set up as the most honest of the lot on the show. The only other character for whom this sort of character development is happening is the woman (forget her name) who is Frank's girlfriend. The one who sleeps a lot and has the cranky mum. She's the other character that's being given a lot of screen time and development in the stories. Everyone else feels like they are serial week to week characters rather than major story arcs that move their characters along. That's very well said. I agree this could set up Mickey's future romantic relationships. I was a bit let down because Gary was such a vague character and I wasn't quite sure in the end what exactly he felt towards Mickey. I think this might have worked better if it had been put in two episodes. I agree that Mickey is one of the few who actually seems to be developing and he is becoming a rock for his family. I was slightly surprised at how hostile Kelly was towards him in their brief scene together, since they were so close in last week's episode. It was one of those moments where the week to week continuity was awry again.
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 21, 2010 20:07:39 GMT -5
I am not sure that Gary's feelings mattered at the end. It was a moment that was really about Mickey was learning the importance of honesty in a relationship and what he wanted in a relationship. I really thought that speech to Paddy and Mime was about himself as much as it was about his parents. Its what he wants in a relationship juxtapose at the end with the fact he realized this was not guy who was going to give it to him. Mickey, believe it or not, is being a romantic from the way they show his character.
I thought it was a nice touch when he mentioned all his flaws, including the sex with the dog, to Gary. Definitely brought home that this was a moment for Mickey to start to come into his own.
I honestly don't expect Kelly and the others to change anymore. They seem stuck. Mickey is the next one I think to realize who he is. I think that's the point.
My fear is that they are doing all of this to make him ready for Ian. I simply don't think Ian is right for Mickey.
If I could figure out to make the color thing work, I could go into why that's the case. But let's just say if the spoilers are right, they only reinforce my view that Ian and Maxine are self destructive. For all Mickey's faults, he's not. That's why he sticks out from the other characters right now. He's the rock. But he's the rock for a reason.
The only part that confuses me is that his brother seems to know he's gay or at least this is an open secret that everyone knows but pretends not to know.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 21, 2010 20:54:23 GMT -5
When you hit reply, go to the dropdown menu for Colors and select the color you want. Then type in that color. If I hit red, then I type like this. I guess yellow is used because it's harder to read without black bars.
If you don't want to do that then maybe you could post what you wanted to post about Ian in the spoiler discussion thread?
You're right that Gary's feelings didn't matter, it's just that since we knew little about him or his motivations, it was more difficult to figure out where Mickey stood. I also wasn't entirely sure if Mickey told Gary all that stuff about himself because he was still hoping for one last chance, or if he just wanted to vent.
I really hope they won't go for Ian/Mickey. They have hinted at this several times over the season and I think it would be a mistake. I don't think Ian is good enough for Mickey anymore. Mickey has made serious efforts to grow up in the last few months of episodes, whereas Ian generally seems stalled. I've also never seen any indication that Ian has any feelings for Mickey beyond some friendship, or sometimes if he needs to get his rocks off. Even if Ian goes back to men, I don't believe that he'd be interested in Mickey. Mickey deserves someone who genuinely cares about him and loves him. The whole, "Well, they're both gay, so it's fine" idea is something I'd rather see the show avoid, since they've managed to avoid this in the past.
It tends to vary based on the episode but I think most of them still think he's straight and just not good with women. I think when Shane brings up Mickey having a boyfriend he does this to tease Mickey, not because he thinks Mickey is actually gay.
So you like Libby then? I do too, most of the time, she's a nice woman, probably better than Frank deserves. I tend to like Patty more.
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 21, 2010 21:06:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I like Liddy. I don't understand her relationship with Frank except for the fact the writers decided "Let's put Frank with someone different." She's cool. Completely fucked up. But in a way that's "I own my shit, and I am trying to figure out how to address it" rather than not.
Regarding the spoiler: I think you are right about Ian and Maxine cheating on each other (Ian with the ball player and Maxine with the professor), but that's because I think they were two self destructive characters. Seeing Ian's self-destruction yet again, only emphasizes to me that he would be wrong for Mickey. Like I said, Mickey is the romantic and the ROCK of the show. If he were in a relationship with Ian, it would be about Mickey saving Ian. I think that would be a waste of the Mickey character. This was implicit when he said to Maxine that she should try not to hurt Ian so much (if I remember the dialogue correctly). I agree that just because you have two gay guys does not mean they should be together. More importantly, I just don't think is all that interesting and I don't think he's on the same level as Mickey in characterization. Mickey needs to be with someone like Maxine's brother. He would challenge Mickey in a lot of ways that Mickey has not yet been challenged.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 21, 2010 23:07:08 GMT -5
Mickey told Maxine that when she wanted a straight guy again, just to let Ian down gently.
Part of me thinks they may have Maxine cheat, and Ian doesn't, so that he will be the one who is hurt more, but I'd rather they both cheat, that way it won't be about who has hurt who more. If it were me I'd keep them together, because I don't think Ian's stories about his love life have been interesting in a long time and I'd rather he just stay with her and have stories about other parts of his life. Besides, where will she go, storywise? I really don't want to see her with Carl again after she used him, and he told her that she was meant to be with Ian, not him, so I'm not sure if he'd want to try again. After that whole "he's your soulmate" stuff, and no real buildup, I'd be surprised if they did break them up, but then, they haven't really given them anything to do, and they did hint at Ian/Mickey a few times (like when Ian was beaten up and Mickey held him, and later, when they were joking and laughing and Maxine sort of glared at them). I just don't want to see Ian/Mickey. Like you said, Mickey would have to regress, ignore his own problems, be about Ian. It's not worth it for Mickey. I think in the long run he would be very badly hurt because I don't see Ian ever loving him. At best this would be default, Ian goes back to men because he's lonely or wounded.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 21, 2010 23:23:28 GMT -5
Oh, and you already mentioned some of this, about Mickey's speeches, but I thought Ciaran Griffiths did such a wonderful job with those, especially the one to Mimi and Paddy. A lot of the time when you see a character making a speech you cringe because it starts to become an actor reading heavy lines, but Ciaran always makes it seem real.
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 22, 2010 0:11:24 GMT -5
That's because despite the fact that the actor plays the character as the village clown (down to him spitting out whatever he's drinking while emoting or the way he makes comic faces during sex) he is very much introspective and constantly searching for a romantic idealized truth. With the dialogue, even when he's in conversation with someone else, its this romantic idealized truth he seeks. When he talked to Paddy about Gary, it was really about him searching for that romantic ideal. When I looked at the clips (after first coming to the show) I realized that most scenes with him are played either for comic effect or search for romantic idealized truth. I don't know if that was the goal at the start. He was probably brought in for comic relief, but that was subtext. And the actor was good enough whether he intended it or not to pull it off. Whether it is his sudden "dreamer's" decision to take up film making and writing or becoming the "hero" as a fire man to please his father or telling Ian about having sex with a dog (because he thought he could be truly open about who he was with Ian) although they had just met in only a way that someone who is idealistic would believe. Sure, he's an idiot, but he's aware enough to be in the closet and navigate the complexities of doing so in a close knit family. Surely he's also aware that sleeping with a dog is not going to go over well. But he let his romantic side get in the way of realizing the real truth over the romantic idea of the moment. Finding what he thought was a kindred spirit. Someone who he says this season he "looked up" to.). He got carried away, but in so doing he said a lot about himself despite the comic nature of the scene. I know this will seem odd- but it was in that scene and the one where he read the whole family about who should be in a relationship and who shouldn't that I realized the character's potential: Can the village idiot find romantic idealized truth? That's complexity. Oh, and you already mentioned some of this, about Mickey's speeches, but I thought Ciaran Griffiths did such a wonderful job with those, especially the one to Mimi and Paddy. A lot of the time when you see a character making a speech you cringe because it starts to become an actor reading heavy lines, but Ciaran always makes it seem real.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 22, 2010 1:38:35 GMT -5
That's true. I wonder if he was always supposed to be a seriocomic character or if they initially only had him in mind more for comedy and Ciaran's performances changed their mind. The early episodes, like the one about the dog, and Mickey loving Ian, doesn't it seem to you like they play all that for laughs? In more recent seasons they've taken him and his pain more seriously.
Ciaran does a good job of blending the comic and the serious. Like those scenes where he was yelling at Gary at the burger place. Mickey was hurt, angry, yet, as he walked away, he was still doing that weird, funny walk of his where his arms are extended and he sort of waddles.
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 22, 2010 2:08:15 GMT -5
I am not sure if the seriocomic aspect of his character was intended earlier in the show. I mean - to me- kernel was there, but whether the writers intended it or it was product of Ciaran's performance? I don't know.
I think the dog scene certainly had both elements. Yes , it was mostly played for laughs in the writing. But, there was a real tragic element to his character too. You couldn't help but feel bad for him, or at least that's what I felt. Although I thought he was a total idiot and funny, he was like a little kid.
On some level whether intended or not, the potential was there. The thing about good writing is that it can go beyond what the writers intended, especially with good actors. I've seen that in shows before. A good show and character takes on a life of its own. He totally plays the character as a complete idiot, but he some how pulls off balancing that with some really kind of profound points. I think part of the reason he is able to get away with it is that he is the village idiot so we expect nothing of him. The rest have all of this "baggage" that would make such speeches out of place. Ian could not pull off these speeches.
Finally, the physical way in which the actor plays the role allows for the seriocomic aspects to work. If he had a normal poster or body language it wouldn't work.
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bdc
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Post by bdc on Apr 22, 2010 6:13:36 GMT -5
BOYS ON FILM 4: PROTECT ME FROM WHAT I WANT TRAILER (Peccadillo Pictures)
Where 2009 saw the birth of the hugely popular Boys on Film brand, 2010 picks up where Boys On Film 3: American Boy left off, with nine award-winning and hotly anticipated short films about objects of desire, and whether the attaining of them is worth the struggle. Elliot Tittensor (TVs Shameless) stars as Daz in headlining film Protect Me From What I Want, a gripping British film debut that sees him woo a young lad in an underpass, only to be threatened with a break-up the following morning. Passive and submissive roles are tackled and tugged in gay graffiti tale Vandals and Icelandic grapple-fest Wrestling, while Postmortem, My Name is Love, and Iris Prize winner Steam look at promising encounters that turn awry. Rounding out the collection are Heiko, an alternative ode to foot fetishes, Breath, where 12 year old Erik swims out to sea to make a daring move on his best friends father, and the Oscar-winning short film Trevor.
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Apr 22, 2010 7:22:58 GMT -5
Daz? I know that's a common nickname over there but I wonder if they did that as a joke since Elliot's twin brother played Daz on Emmerdale.
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kevinlantojack
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MONOGAMY,Isn't that the straight people disease
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Post by kevinlantojack on Apr 25, 2010 11:59:26 GMT -5
BOYS ON FILM 4: PROTECT ME FROM WHAT I WANT TRAILER (Peccadillo Pictures) Where 2009 saw the birth of the hugely popular Boys on Film brand, 2010 picks up where Boys On Film 3: American Boy left off, with nine award-winning and hotly anticipated short films about objects of desire, and whether the attaining of them is worth the struggle. Elliot Tittensor (TVs Shameless) stars as Daz in headlining film Protect Me From What I Want, a gripping British film debut that sees him woo a young lad in an underpass, only to be threatened with a break-up the following morning. Passive and submissive roles are tackled and tugged in gay graffiti tale Vandals and Icelandic grapple-fest Wrestling, while Postmortem, My Name is Love, and Iris Prize winner Steam look at promising encounters that turn awry. Rounding out the collection are Heiko, an alternative ode to foot fetishes, Breath, where 12 year old Erik swims out to sea to make a daring move on his best friends father, and the Oscar-winning short film Trevor. where can I find this movie?
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Post by dannybaby1234 on Apr 26, 2010 19:07:46 GMT -5
Just to say that this is my entry for the new TGoDT banner Feedback would be greatly appreciated ;D
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Post by shamelessfan on Apr 27, 2010 22:53:37 GMT -5
Really tonight's episode of Shameless. Well crafted, IMO
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kevinlantojack
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MONOGAMY,Isn't that the straight people disease
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Post by kevinlantojack on Apr 28, 2010 1:24:14 GMT -5
Really tonight's episode of Shameless. Well crafted, IMO PLEASE were can we see episodes of shamless thanks!
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