Christian & Oliver, 19.06.2009, video & caps

[sio127]

thanks guys,

[kes]

Jun 19, 2009 17:18:03 GMT -5 rhiannonhero said:

Jun 19, 2009 16:43:18 GMT -5 @ivaniv said:

I was thinking while rewinding an episode of Eastenders. When Christian had said to Lydia that Olli had changed since he became a co-owner of NL, that he was actually right. When Olli called him an employee before Lukas, maybe he wasn't hiding the relationship. Maybe he enjoys being a boss too much, that he has people who have to do what he tells them. He never had a job where he had any power, maybe he got a bit power-crazy. Christian can't even choose a place on the beach and Olli just announces that Christian should get another job, because he as a boss knows best...

Ivan, imo, Olli has always run the show with their relationship, even when he was "giving up so much" for Christian to become boxing champion, it was all on his terms. There were so many times when Christian wanted to end the shenanigans, and Olli wouldn't let him.

Olli is, imo, very ambitious, and very much a leader. He just happens to also be charming, and most people want to do what he tells them to do. We're seeing this very clearly, I think, with No Limits.

Christian said to Lydia that Olli had changed, but I don't think he's changed at all. I just think that before No Limits Olli was content to be in charge of Christian's life. Now he wants to be in charge of his own, too, and in a very ambitious way.

But, yeah, I think that Olli has always been a control freak. Luckily, he's usually a very benevolent one. He's good natured and usually has other people's best interests at heart, but he often just kind of decides for other people what they should do (especially Christian) and then just assumes that he's right, even if it is over their protests, sometimes.

Luckily, he's really cute.

I love this analysis. Between you, Mona, Andre, Ivan and Lola -- not to mention uite a few others -- I feel quite enlightened! I love reading peoples' insights.

This seems on the money, though I do like to see Olli successful in his own right. I'll note that in an interview, Jo said that he found Olli's codependency, his willingness to "do and do and do" for others a bit annoying.

So, to some degree, Olli has been a "supporter" -- and in the helping role. But you add a layer of insight. Almost every "support" person I know also is a power person -- by supporting they wield a kind of power.

Interesting, this.

[kes]

Thanks so much Nanna! The song is AWESOME Tihkon! I can't believe how much better this is with that song!!!! Thanks, too, to Ivan and Dutchy.


I liked today's episode. Christian really seemed to show maturity today.

I know I tend to be a bit of a overreactor where Christian is concerned (I am his Jewish mother after all) but did Olli's last line come off as a bit insensitive, or is that just me?

I don't mind, to some degree. I have been enjoying the strong Olli who doesn't put Christian first. And, to some degree, Olli is right -- he doesn't want to lose his relationship with Christian, and he also wants a successful business. It's just the delivery . . .

However, I have to admit, I'd be nonplussed if I were Christian. WTF?? That would be my reaction . . .

[Nitty]

Thank you so much, Nanna and Tihkon! Great job!

About the Olli=controlling subject...I guess I don't tend to see it cuz I'm like Olli & maybe he doesn't see it either.
So there u have it...I'm Olli. Someone needs to be, with all these Christians running around the boards.

[jsg03jd]

Well, back in the August 2008 interview Jo Weil did with After Elton, he took questions from some of this board's members, and I asked him the last question on this link as to who's the boss in the Ollian relationship and Jo responded even back then that Olli is the boss: www.afterelton.com/people/2008/8/joweil?page=0,2#comment-51573

Now, Olli is literally and figuratively Christian's boss.

Where will Christian work? Maybe he can become a call boy, but I reckon he'd sooner eat glass than whore himself in Duesseldorf....

Thanks Ivan, Tihkon and Nanna for all your hard work!

[nanna]

You can download the subs with the Mraz song at www.wuala.com/ichglotzutube/VL/vl20090619subsoriginal.avi

I forgot to say that the song I used was Better Together by Jack Johnson. I think it's really good.

So, if you like it, here's the subbed clip with the Johnson song: www.wuala.com/ichglotzutube/VL/vl20090619subsedit.avi

[husky14620]

Jun 19, 2009 18:08:36 GMT -5 kes said:

Thanks so much Nanna! The song is AWESOME Tihkon! I can't believe how much better this is with that song!!!! Thanks, too, to Ivan and Dutchy.


I liked today's episode. Christian really seemed to show maturity today.

I know I tend to be a bit of a overreactor where Christian is concerned (I am his Jewish mother after all) but did Olli's last line come off as a bit insensitive, or is that just me?

I don't mind, to some degree. I have been enjoying the strong Olli who doesn't put Christian first. And, to some degree, Olli is right -- he doesn't want to lose his relationship with Christian, and he also wants a successful business. It's just the delivery . . .

However, I have to admit, I'd be nonplussed if I were Christian. WTF?? That would be my reaction . . .

I don't think Olli completely thought that one through. But I predict (without looking at any spoilers) that the scheiße will hit the fan over it. And Gregor won't be able to keep out of it. He won't get to referee as he wanted to do today, they will BOTH keep dragging him into it. And Mr. Neverfreaksout will end up mad for a while.

[husky14620]

Jun 19, 2009 17:04:47 GMT -5 @cj4 said:

If you look carefully Olli is still wearing his swim trunks so I think they are Christian's

Actually, from Christian's playful body language, and Olli's abrupt swipe of them, they are definitely supposed to be Olli's. And they appear to be inside out, as if someone pulled them off against a struggle. But they don't look plaid. And they were filming in a public place. So I suspect they were both wearing their trunks in that scene.

[fanaticfan]

Does anybody know what the name of the song is playing when they're still angry at each other?

[rhiannonhero]

Nitty, being an Olli can be a good thing! And, yeah, I doubt Olli would own up to being a control freak. Though, honestly, it's not an all bad thing!

[tihkon2]

husky,

My interpretation is that they are Christian's shorts.
When Chrissy is waving them in the air he has a cheeky grin, Olli swipes the shorts and runs away and Chris looks miffed and sinks down into the water.

I think he was being naughty and showing Olli that he was naked, and Olli took them shorts and skedaddled ,leaving Chrissy trapped out there.

;D

[Deleted]

Tihkon makes the point I tried to make earlier. Chrissie was being cheeky

[Nitty]

Exactly. If Olli really were naked, he wouldn't make his way toward the beach...he'd be the one sinking down.

[sheepiefarm]

Okay - I just did a marathon "catch-up" session tonight.

Having been with these two guys since the beginning and "lived" through all their problems getting together and being able to say "I love you" and "trusting" each other yadda yadda yadda- I got really drawn into this epi and felt myself going all "doe eyed" with the beach / picnic / fooling around lovey-doveyness.

My jaw literally hit the floor when Olli dropped his bombshell (a huge fucking atom bomb at that) right at the end.
Olli is (and always has been) the controlling partner of the relationship - though in the early days it was done through his passivity. With his growing responsibility as a person of worth that passivity is gaining in confidence - almost to the point where he might just be taking things for granted.

Over the last few weeks we have seen a massive shift in Christian - gone is the angry young man, afraid of his feelings and how the world might percieve him for loving another man - in is a man who is totally & utterly in love and terrified of losing it.

Jealous Christian is nothing new, but repentant and willing to please Christian is.

Olli dropped a nuclear bomb but did it in such a nonchalant dismissive manner, I think he is not gonna know what's hit him.

There is more mileage to be had out of this but it's 2:30am and my brain is fuddled

Kudos to these two guys - the acting is brilliant

Thanks to Nanna, Ivan & Tihkon

[kes]

Jun 19, 2009 20:42:11 GMT -5 sheepiefarm said:

Okay - I just did a marathon "catch-up" session tonight.

Having been with these two guys since the beginning and "lived" through all their problems getting together and being able to say "I love you" and "trusting" each other yadda yadda yadda- I got really drawn into this epi and felt myself going all "doe eyed" with the beach / picnic / fooling around lovey-doveyness.

My jaw literally hit the floor when Olli dropped his bombshell (a huge fucking atom bomb at that) right at the end.
Olli is (and always has been) the controlling partner of the relationship - though in the early days it was done through his passivity. With his growing responsibility as a person of worth that passivity is gaining in confidence - almost to the point where he might just be taking things for granted.

Over the last few weeks we have seen a massive shift in Christian - gone is the angry young man, afraid of his feelings and how the world might percieve him for loving another man - in is a man who is totally & utterly in love and terrified of losing it.

Jealous Christian is nothing new, but repentant and willing to please Christian is.

Olli dropped a nuclear bomb but did it in such a nonchalant dismissive manner, I think he is not gonna know what's hit him.

There is more mileage to be had out of this but it's 2:30am and my brain is fuddled

Kudos to these two guys - the acting is brilliant

Thanks to Nanna, Ivan & Tihkon

Sheepiefarm, you sum this up beautifully! Thanks. I had the same feeling about Olli's words. And I got totally caught up in the montage too -- particularly after Tihkon added the song.

Monday (if they continue the story then???) should be interesting . . .

[Flippityfloppityflip]

Jun 19, 2009 17:56:53 GMT -5 kes said:

Jun 19, 2009 17:18:03 GMT -5 rhiannonhero said:

Ivan, imo, Olli has always run the show with their relationship, even when he was "giving up so much" for Christian to become boxing champion, it was all on his terms. There were so many times when Christian wanted to end the shenanigans, and Olli wouldn't let him.

Olli is, imo, very ambitious, and very much a leader. He just happens to also be charming, and most people want to do what he tells them to do. We're seeing this very clearly, I think, with No Limits.

Christian said to Lydia that Olli had changed, but I don't think he's changed at all. I just think that before No Limits Olli was content to be in charge of Christian's life. Now he wants to be in charge of his own, too, and in a very ambitious way.

But, yeah, I think that Olli has always been a control freak. Luckily, he's usually a very benevolent one. He's good natured and usually has other people's best interests at heart, but he often just kind of decides for other people what they should do (especially Christian) and then just assumes that he's right, even if it is over their protests, sometimes.

Luckily, he's really cute.

I love this analysis. Between you, Mona, Andre, Ivan and Lola -- not to mention uite a few others -- I feel quite enlightened! I love reading peoples' insights.

This seems on the money, though I do like to see Olli successful in his own right. I'll note that in an interview, Jo said that he found Olli's codependency, his willingness to "do and do and do" for others a bit annoying.

So, to some degree, Olli has been a "supporter" -- and in the helping role. But you add a layer of insight. Almost every "support" person I know also is a power person -- by supporting they wield a kind of power.

Interesting, this.

I so agree with everyone's comments regarding Olli's power in the Ollian relationship. And judging by VL new opening credits, the powers that be also see Olli and not Christian as the dynamic force in the relationship. As can be seen Olli is placed centre, hands assuredly in his pockets, Judith is to his right, whilst Christian comes to him and places his hand on Olli's shoulder. I think their poses speak volumes about the writers' general overview of Christian and Olli's (or should that be Olli and Christian's) relationship.

I rather like the harder edged Olli, with him being more prepared to show a bit of steel as well as maintaining his ability to flirt his way through life. Although it was a touch mean to be prepared to join Christian in his workplace and then to later oust him from it! But as they say you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs!!

By the way whilst watching the scenes more than a few times, something in the bedroom caught my eye. Why does Christian and Olli's bed have two sets of bedding on it. Olli's side has plain bedding and Christian has patterned. Is this normal in Germany or is it limited to VL scenes relating to Christian and Olli, so as not to get too close to each other when doing passionate scenes?

[brownsugar]

Ok, I just got in and it's the middle of the night but I don't care, i'm on my way over to youtube to watch nanna's translated episode. My jaw is on the floor from just viewing the cap...wow!!

Will give an opinion tomorrow since i'm sure i'll be watching this clip at least three times tonight before I get some ZZZZZZ.

[lolaruns]

I think that's one of my problems with a lot of the discussion. There is so much talk about how Christian needs to let go of his anger. But isn't everything that holds true for Christian just as true if not more so for Olli?

If anger or jealousy is a sign of insecurity, is a need to control things a sign for even more and more deeply seated insecurity. (doesn't it seem that Olli is overcompensating for a mostly control and aimless seeming life? Why would you try to control something if you aren't deeply, deeply scared of what everything will do if you don't? Isn't it ultimately a sign of lack of trust and faith?) If fits of anger are potentially harmful to a relationship, aren't control issues not even more harmful to a relationship and a partner?

At least Christian's anger is open and in your face, it blows over, it goes away and after that Christian is normal again. What Olli does is a lot more insidious to me.

And just because he is ususally successfull with it and just because people let him (imo, mostly because they don't notice) doesn't mean that it is healthy for him or them when they do. To me, for every "Christian needs to let go of his anger" there should be at least 10 "Olli really needs to learn to give up on his control issues". To me that it a lot more long term harmful to Olli, to Christian and to their relationship. Because it's not something that like anger blows up in your face, but something that slowly hollows things out from the inside and imo slowly makes a relationship more and more unappealing.

It doesn't help that to me "having/running a bar" is not a goal where I find it very appealing and honorable to be obssessive ambitious about (as opposed, I dunno, making the world a better place). Espeically since to me Olli has never displayed the "this is my baby, this my home" fondness that Charlie displays for her restaurant. Olli just seems like a ruler of No Limits while Charlie seems like she is an extension of Schneiders and Schneiders is an extension of her and to separate the two would be like cutting her in half.

Olli strikes me as much less a natural leader than Gregor or Charlie (who seem to lead naturally by charisma) which he overcompensates with tightly wound control even when he puts a lot of glossy layers on it.

[ivaniv]

Just had another idea while shopping this morning ;D What if they want to move Christian to Schneiders, it's just Charlie there now while it is too hot in NL. And instead of making it a low-key event, they made a drama about mixing work with pleasure. Maybe Olli already had in mind for Christian to go to Schneiders, but decided to tell him in the most insensitive way. Although I would kind of like it if Charlie offered Christian a job after the news about fights reached her. It would have a plus side, too. Olli always looked the best in his Schneiders outfit. Now it would be Christian's turn and Olli can keep wearing his 80's throwback outfits.

[lolaruns]

Other options I wouldn't mind seeing:

-) Horse keeper at the castle (because of Thore's fondness of horses)
-) Paramedic/ambulance driver at the hospital (I love those uniforms)

I actually really hope that Christian really does stop working at No Limits, because I really do think that it is important to separate business and pleasure even when they are not fighting. I think it makes a lot of sense that Christian was there for the renovation and build up but that now that that is done he moves on to his own thing again.

Kinda like Olli and the boxing. To me Christian being Olli's waiter forever would be if Olli had never given up being Christian's brow wiper. Instead he was there at the crucial phase and then went and created something of his own.

It's a real pity that the job options are rather limited by the show so I fear Christian getting a job other than waiter is maybe unlikely

Maybe he could try out different jobs (yet another writer at the holding, David's job at the castle, horse minder etc) and we could get to see his adventures and misadventures. I think that would be a really funny storyline really using Thore's comedy skills.

[ivaniv]

Schneiders is most likely and most cost-effective, also Charlie can keep checking if she's still a lesbian by looking at Christian's arse ;D I really like an idea of Christian as a stableboy, lot of potential there Imagine Christian & Olli riding on horses There's Brandner Bau, interesting working uniform there, but that's not sustainable in a long term, I think.

[lolaruns]

I would love to see him try working at the holding for a while only to quit in exasperation because the combined force of Lydia, Olivia and Rebecca's arguing drives him crazy.

Other issues:

A LySeb picture in the collage would make sense because even though if we like to block it out sometimes Lydia is still a flatmate. (at least I think she is, right?) So it would make sense that she would put up a picture of her relationship.

Olli having changed, well even if he was controlling before if he no longer hides it/does it overtly rather than covertly that is still a major change if he is no longer pleasant about it.

And how you do it does make a difference. It drew the parallel in the spoiler topic between this situation and the situation where Olli had to make sacrifices for Christian's career. It would have made a major difference if Christian hadn't been guilty and apologetic about the subject but rather had acted entitled/taken for granted/commanding about the issue. Back then Olli put his foot down and said he would walk out if he didn't feel like Christian was suffering under the situation just as much and Christian responded by saying he would give up his career for Olli in a heartbeat.

Would Olli do the same? Or would he just be "Ah, suck it up, I want my career and you have to fall in line, I'm gonna act like your complaints about my style don't exist"? Technically Christian could have also done that during his boxing time ("Bah, suck it up, it's only for a while besides you are still getting sex so why are you complaining?") rather than being apologetic about it, but would we have liked it? Of course it's not that bad in this situation But still, the tone makes a lot of difference and it could very well be that Christian now feels a stiffer breeze and that is a change that ruffles his feathers a bit.

Sometimes it's not just about what you do, but how you do it (whether you are an ass about it or not, whether you consider the feelings of others or not).

I don't mind, to some degree. I have been enjoying the strong Olli who doesn't put Christian first. And, to some degree, Olli is right -- he doesn't want to lose his relationship with Christian, and he also wants a successful business. It's just the delivery . . .

Devil's Advocate: I don't think that it is anybody's duty to give up doing their job or being ambitious in their job just for your partner. However, it is your duty as a partner to sell the idea to your partner and if necessary take the time to explain to them why you need to do this/why you are acting this way. (and "I really need this, this is important to me, this is a one time thing and I'm counting on your loyalty this one time" is for example a way of explaining)

If you don't have the time for that then maybe you don't have time for a relationship and the fair thing would be to do a timeout on the relationship. Either that or you have to be accepting and enduring of your partner's prolonged wrath (eg the strategy that Leonard and Sarah decided to pursue in their relationship).

Wow, to think that the day would come where I would ever list Leo and Sarah as a positive example for everything. I think I'm gonna go out and have to shoot myself.

But it's still interesting how they dealt with job problems.

Leo was ambitious in his career, taking long hours, missing dates, not calling.

Sarah was the one with the fiery temprament, prone to blowing up and insulting him, leading to a lot of really vicious fights. Leo was also accused of not taking her too seriously and treating her like a child. While I guess Sarah could be accused of throwing tantrums.

Still Leo:
- Constantly signalled that he knew he was in the wrong, even if it usually came off as him trying to buy his way out of the situation by giving her presents; But still "I'm wrong, here take this cookie/necklace/flowers" still includes an "I'm wrong"
- Still was shown as trying to support her career any way he could (being supportive, paying the professor to come to the castle, showing enthusiasm for her playing, etc)
- He also never rubbed his dream in her face (and usually left it to Elisabeth to do that kind of tempering "He only didn't call because today a patient died under his hands and he did everything to save her" or "You only think that he got everything handed to him and never had to work for anything, in reality he had to fight his father every step on the way and endured much hardship")

I'd still say the fundamental difference between Leo and Sarah and Ollian is that Leo always came off like he was fundamentally clueless about what was really bothering her. Like he got on an intellectual level that playing the piano was cute and pretty and that it mattered a lot to Sarah but he never really truly *got it* what she saw in it. And vice versa she understood on an intellectual level why saving people is honorable and important and that it was really important to Leo but again on a fundamental level she didn't get the way it got him.

It always seemed like maybe deep down she secretly thought "Come on, everybody cut have cut open that patient, what I'm doing is ART dammit it's more/at least just as important as his career/dream" with him secretly thinking "Yeah, so she is keys on the piano and it's pretty and everything, but please, I'm saving lives here; Art will still be pretty tomorrow while my patient will be dead".

Compared to that I think both Olli and Christian truly understand the others dream and why it is so importand and also don't think that any dream is superior to the other (it should be noted that the current questions are about comfort vs. dream rather than dream vs. dream).

Though the flipside one could ask if it isn't actually worse if Olli knows Christian's objections exactly and also why Christian makes them and ignores them anyway. As opposed to Leo who was probably genuinely ignorant.

[ivaniv]

Yeah, it looks like Olli has a new project, before it was Christian and his dreams, now it's NL. Nothing wrong with that, but he's a bit extreme. Funny how writers made me switch sides. At first I thought he's just stressed out and snapping at Christian was a way to cope, but he became rather inconsiderate lately, he has an almost ideal b/f in Christian, but he just keeps pushing his buttons.

[lolaruns]

I think that's why it would actually be interesting to have Christian no longer work at No Limits. In his job Olli HAS to be insensitive and brash sometimes to his employees. But if Christian was no longer an employee, would Olli manage to leave the boss attitude at the job and still be sweet and boyfriendy at home? Or would the new attitude towards his job continue at home even when Christian is no longer his employee?

[mona]

I think it's a normal "pattern" for a relationship that someone is making the more rational decisions and is somehow the "controller". Christian is too hot-headed and most of the time I think he appreciates Ollis character and his role in their relationship and it does make him feel more secure because he can rely on Olli.

The montage showed it perfectly to me how their relationship works. Christian wants to be the one to protect or "the man" who climbs up the tree to get the badminton ball. Olli lets him do it and it's giving the Christian the feeling he needs. But he's the one who makes the decision "where to we lay" and that stuff.

At NL it was the same. Olli is the boss but he tells Christian to keep the reporters out of the place.

Maybe it's oldfashioned but it works for them and I think it's cute.

(when I think about it there are a lot examples like that. Christian wanted Olli to do the stuff about the article but when Axel showed up he was the one "in charge".) But when it's hard they would think the other one can cope with it but if Olli wouldn't be a little controlling Christian would naturally take the lead and I would hate if they lose their 50:50 way in the relationship.

It sounds like Christian is only there for the "phsyical" stuff but he had moments where he decided things too (the outing, the first phase about their love where he managed the speed and so on) If Olli would be too controlling that would've been difficult, I still think it's a normal "controlling" because he sensed something was going wrong.

I don't think Christian meant the "Olli changed" too serious. He just wanted to say something mean I thought. But even if he's right I understand Olli. He has to learn a lot and it's hard that the others accept him as the boss. I think he's less bossy than Gregor was anyway.

And about the fights, It's always Christians who's deciding about the "timeline" and Olli goes with it.