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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 13, 2008 13:55:36 GMT -5
It means that you HOPE it gives a 'clear indication', because I don't see how the above makes it a 'clear indication' for ME. I'm going to have to second this response. I don't think you can really compare these two loves as the dynamics are too different. It's an unlevel playing field but comparing to contrast implies they were equal on every level and we know it's not. JP loves C, yet JP loves K too. It is possible to love two people. It is possible to have great love for your first love but still find love with someone else (unless we're talking about a Harlequin novel) when that first love is gone. Loving another person doesn't cheapen or negate the first love. Also, having a first love doesn't mean having an only love either.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 13, 2008 14:02:42 GMT -5
IMO, chances are that there will be a sunset ending because JP is leaving and they brought Craig back for just that.
Now, if these outside situations didn't exist THEN the *good* story would be for JP to choose Kieron. To pick the future over the past, to pick the one who is quite frankly the better guy, to be shown appreciating the good guy over the guy who was immature and treated you terribly. It doesn't matter what JP said. Things have changed. JP was younger than. First big love. And I bet JP has gotten more careful since then too. And he didn't exactly keel over and die when Craig left.
Not to mention for some people the amount of rejection of unavailability just increases the fervour of the insanity. Keiron responded much quickly, so rather than a crush that can build and build in intensity they had to deal more with actually interacting with each other on a couple level.
I fully believe that there will be a sunset ending. But personally, I have a hard time believing that it will ever feel like anything but a cop out/cheap stunt to me. Craig was a character with a very particular personality with very particular flaws. Just assuming that he went away and magically "got better" to an extent that I could buy them having a non terrible relationship feels like a cheap whitewashing to me.
For the record, I'm not a Kieron worshipper. I think he is okay. But, I think Craig is particularly terrible. No matter how much love JP might have, how does that help me when I just can't buy that Craig isn't at one point going to turn around and treat him like crap again. Maybe not now, maybe in not in 2 or 5 or 10 years. But he will eventually. And that is what makes it unlikable to me. Because to me that violates the "just want JP to be happy" rule. Craig strikes me as a character way too selfish to be able to make anybody happy and if they bring him back unselfish then it won't be Craig anymore, but some version of pod!Craig.
Again, have Craig come on and stay for longer. Show him have sex and relationships with other men in the process of coming to terms with his sexuality. And THEN have him choose JP. Then I'll believe him. Otherwise, no, not really. You know, leopard changing his spots and stuff like that.
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Post by amber80 on Jun 13, 2008 14:22:05 GMT -5
Great post Lola!
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Post by Bonobochick on Jun 13, 2008 14:29:46 GMT -5
I also think the Craig return is a bit too short in stay because he had a loooooot of issues to work through and I remember saying a long time ago to a few friends that if he ever came back, it would have to be more than a few episodes in order to show that he'd grown/matured while away in Dublin.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 13, 2008 14:47:44 GMT -5
I, agree with your post, Lola. 100%. I wish, I didn't though, because for awhile, I totally adored the JPC relationship. Up, until the episode, in which he, along with Sarah, went on their 'last-minute' vacation to Zante.
I'm not sorry, but I just can't seem to 'let go' of the FACT that Craig strung John-Paul AND Sarah for months on end. I don't care how much he loved John-Paul (and how much love JP had for him) and was scared during that time: He was wrong and I just feel that, he and John-Paul are not right together.
I can't stop having those thoughts and even with it pertaining to fictional characters and their storyline, I just can't sit and say "how romantic and angsty it all is".
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 13, 2008 14:57:30 GMT -5
Well, I don't want to be all negative. Even though JPC doesn't really do much for me, I understand that it does it for a lot of fans. Also this is just my perspective of the story, at the moment. For one, a lot of things can change till Craig comes back. And quite frankly the HO writers are good. Maybe they will write some kick ass excellent adventure for JPC that will make it entirely sensible that they will leave together. Though Craig doesn't do it for me, even I can picture a bunch of storylines where it might work for me. Particularly if the sunset ending isn't some gloss over "OMG, everything is so perfect, we'll love each other forever" ending, but rather some sort of "We really like each other, let's go to X together and just see where the future takes us, one day at a time": And since I do believe that the HO writers are good, I think that there is a decent chance that they will pick an appropriate storyline that doesn't backstab the characters. Unpopularly, I would actually prefer it if Craig didn't come back to romantically woo JP in a "OMG I couldn't stop thinking about you, I need to have you back, I can't live without you" kind of way and fight for his love. I would prefer it if he came back just normal, well adjusted, without any intentions. And he and JP (in my mind version single and having split peacefully from K for a totally sane reason) just interact, normal, sanely, as friends, decide that they still like each other, and decide that they want to go somewhere and give a real, open relationship a try. Clean slate. And not falling back into their angsty melodrama relationship. Though I fear that it's probably too nice and sane for HO I've been a soap viewer for quite some time and to some extent I'm used to couples causing each other hurt. At the same time, hurt is also a complicated concept. Because one of the first rules of a supercouple has to be that if you love somebody, it means that you don't want to cause them pain. That's why every supercouple needs some limits of "No matter what happens, there is this one line they would never cross, this one thing they would never do to each other or else it would undermine the relationship". For some couples it's lying, for others sleeping with somebody else, for others cheating, for others messing with the kids, for others to not have faith/trust in the other in a specific situation. Usually, the pain always has to be balanced with happiness. With a basis of something. If a couple has been together for a certain amount of time or has a long positive history then I'm more willing to believe that they would return to each other, even after having awful things to each other. If that basis isn't there, then the characters, no matter how much they declare their love and no matter how much they forgive each other, they will always come off like idiots, if this devotion is based on nothing of subtance. And JPC just didn't do very well on the basis for a relationship vs. hurt imposed ratio. Hence, the scepticism. Angst is beautiful but you can also overdose. After it just overtakes the basis way too much then the tastes of the viewers can swing against the relationship. Why root for A and B together if they just seen to make each other unhappy all the time?
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 13, 2008 16:11:21 GMT -5
Get out of my head, Lola. ;D I've been a soap viewer for quite some time and to some extent I'm used to couples causing each other hurt. At the same time, hurt is also a complicated concept. Because one of the first rules of a supercouple has to be that if you love somebody, it means that you don't want to cause them pain. That's why every supercouple needs some limits of "No matter what happens, there is this one line they would never cross, this one thing they would never do to each other or else it would undermine the relationship". For some couples it's lying, for others sleeping with somebody else, for others cheating, for others messing with the kids, for others to not have faith/trust in the other in a specific situation. Usually, the pain always has to be balanced with happiness. With a basis of something. If a couple has been together for a certain amount of time or has a long positive history then I'm more willing to believe that they would return to each other, even after having awful things to each other. If that basis isn't there, then the characters, no matter how much they declare their love and no matter how much they forgive each other, they will always come off like idiots, if this devotion is based on nothing of subtance. And JPC just didn't do very well on the basis for a relationship vs. hurt imposed ratio. Hence, the scepticism. Angst is beautiful but you can also overdose. After it just overtakes the basis way too much then the tastes of the viewers can swing against the relationship. Why root for A and B together if they just seen to make each other unhappy all the time?
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Simone
Junior Member
Posts: 276
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Post by Simone on Jun 13, 2008 16:15:15 GMT -5
I've watching American and British soaps for over 20 years and for "super couples" there are never any limits that prevent them from reuniting eventually. Nothing is ever unforgivable. Also, soap couples are rarely happy or their moments of happiness are fleeting. I would argue that what makes a couple a "super couple" is their willingness to forgiveness each other and proclaim their love for each other no matter what they have done to each other. It sometimes takes years for them to reunite and they have kids with other people, but they persist because the writers view them as an important component of the show.
I have absolutely no problem with Craig and John Paul reuniting, especially if Craig has matured and is confident in his sexuality. This is ultimately what John Paul wanted from Craig. Craig and John Paul's love for each other isn't logical or perfect, but the depth of their feelings for each other was real to them and a proportion of the audience.
It is easy to idealize Kieron and John Paul's relationship, but if Kieron wasn't originally a plot point and if he stayed on the show with John Paul eventually one of them would have done something horrendous to the other because this is how soap couples work
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 13, 2008 16:31:14 GMT -5
No. As far as I can see, this is the reason why US soaps are failing so badly at this point*. Because most soap opera couples that were popular have done the song and dance one time too much that it is just no longer romantic and appealing anymore and even the most dedicated fans can't defend it anymore.
Because there is always a limit to when it becomes tasteless. Forgiving crappy behavior over and over again is not romantic, it's unappealing, makes the character unlikable doormats. That's why the current soaps have such a hard time creating memorable supercouples. Most of them flare up for a short while because there is chemistry between the actors and then are destroyed and abandoned by storytelling that knows no limits till a story just isn't likable anymore.
I'm not a fan of firm rules in soap telling. I hate nothing more than "sainted" pairings who never do anything wrong. But it has to be balanced. Back in the golden era of supercouples it used to be that couples had long and appealing fun and light getting together stories so that fans had something to build on and remember fondly when the hard times hit. If you cut this time period to short you ruin your own chances of creating a non-disgusting storyline.
I don't idolize JPK. It's an okay storyline. Not awesome, not terrible. And I agree, if it went longer, they surely would do bad things to each other. But as far as it hasn't happened yet, we don't know how terrible they would be (just because characters do bad things to each other doesn't mean that there aren't degrees of how bad), to what extent it would be balanced with good times. Not to mention, so what if something bad happened. I would just root for them to get with new people, nor harm done.
*Germany too had its problems with soaps faltering and it was really made apparent by the rise of the telenovelas that has a different structure with much more absolute couples and with a definite ending point and therefore no eternal bed hopping. So any soap you see is the way it is because it has to compete against the telenovelas.
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gigi
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Post by gigi on Jun 13, 2008 17:18:31 GMT -5
I fully believe that there will be a sunset ending. But personally, I have a hard time believing that it will ever feel like anything but a cop out/cheap stunt to me. Craig was a character with a very particular personality with very particular flaws. Just assuming that he went away and magically "got better" to an extent that I could buy them having a non terrible relationship feels like a cheap whitewashing to me. I wouldn't mind them doing what they did with Ulli and Tom on "Verbotene Liebe." (Basically, Ulli came back for a post-breakup fling, they resolved some issues, Tom decided to stay with his new guy who eventually broke up with him, Tom left the show alone and on a special anniversary episode was shown back with Ulli in Offscreen-Land, aka Munich.) It's a way of shorthanding character development, without making things feel cheap, IMO. But I don't think many fans would be satisfied with that.
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Post by cakefan on Jun 13, 2008 18:42:56 GMT -5
It means that you HOPE it gives a 'clear indication', because I don't see how the above makes it a 'clear indication' for ME. I'm going to have to second this response. I don't think you can really compare these two loves as the dynamics are too different. It's an unlevel playing field but comparing to contrast implies they were equal on every level and we know it's not. JP loves C, yet JP loves K too. It is possible to love two people. It is possible to have great love for your first love but still find love with someone else (unless we're talking about a Harlequin novel) when that first love is gone. Loving another person doesn't cheapen or negate the first love. Also, having a first love doesn't mean having an only love either. Yes. I know that from experience. My point is that he will have to make a choice and he will have to question his feelings for both. I am not saying these loves are on the same level. Every person deserves to be loved for who they are and since every person is unique, if you really love them, the love for each will be unique - hence different. And that is all I am saying: the two pictures are very different. And John Paul is going to have to ask himself which picture he wants to be in. Perhaps those loves aren't comparable - at least not on any rational level. I fully agree with you on that one. Choices like that are made, well, not with the ratio, that is for sure... That's also why it will be such a difficult choice to make for him. He can never know whether it's the right choice. There is no right choice. And I wouldn't want to be in his place. All I wanted to say was that in what we CAN compare - namely the words the writers put in John Paul's mouth - there is a difference. Not a difference I am HOPING for for whatever reason, it is just there and I am pointing it out. Using soapwriter logic this gives me and indication of where the writers are taking things. I am not saying that this is how I think it should be in real life. As I have said elsewhere, I actually really like Kieron as a character, when I can forget he was just brought in as a plot device. As I like Craig very much when, for a few seconds, I can manage forget that horrible Zante episode. And John Paul. Well, we'll see what he does.
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Post by jaymac74 on Jun 14, 2008 0:48:48 GMT -5
Why is K 'quite frankly the better guy'? The two relationships are both secret and Craig was cheating on his girlfriend at the age of 18/19. K is a celibate Priest, who pursued a parishioner's son and then tried to absolve himself of blame when JpPwanted to call a halt after their first shag. Craig was terrified of his family's reaction to being gay/bi (rightly as it turned out) and behaved very badly as a result, this does in no way mean, that he'll behave badly again - he treated his previous girlfriend very well and has been shown to very protective of his family (and even JP on a few occasions). He apologised to JP for treating him badly and stood shoulder to shoulder with him in front of their families, asked him to go to Dublin and was left at the airport, cos he still wasn't quite ready - he just needed more time. JP is not a simpering little innocent in this, who needs Craig to be perfect, in order to be worthy of him - he cheated on Sarah and Spike too and is now having yet another affair with someone he shouldn't. Zante was a dreadful thing for Craig to do, so was JP's text at the reveal - outing someone in front of the whole village ranks a lot higher in my lexicon of horrible actions - but they are teenage boys and both need to have some slack cut for them. Craig is immature but so is K, he only ever sees their relationship on his terms- see the Kris/Mercy situation. Even Niall tells him should be more worried about breaking his vows than the JP and Mercy situation. And of course JP didn't keel over and die, he's a McQueen but he didn't develop any other sustained friendships and has been shown to be very lonely - plus both Hannah and Kris have pointed out that he is not over Craig. First loves can last forever or they can die quickly- JP and Craig's may die, but it was left unfinished at the airport for a reason - whether that is to resolve it and say 'it was great but we've moved on' or 'we need to see where this goes', we'll all find out soon enough.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 14, 2008 1:23:30 GMT -5
I don't think that K is a better person at all. I just think that it appeal to people that he seems fairly secure in his sexual identity. He struggles with sexuality vs. the church, but doesn't have any doubts about being gay in general. He comes across like somebody who in this regard knows what he is. Meaning that there would at least be a basis to building an actual, non horrible relationship once the obstacle (church) was removed.
Again, I'm not hung up on K. K is nice. But I'm sure I could live with others too. I just find Craig in the form we know of so far particularly unsuitable. Again, I don't doubt that there are feelings between JP and Craig, I just don't find it particularly healthy/appealing/likable as a story, particularly if it steers to some unrealistic version of a happy end that I can't buy without rolling my eyes.
For the record, I don't find JPK great and swoonworthy either. At the most they would score as "passable" the way they are now. Only the future can potentially tell what they would be like if they actually got together as an open couple, maybe they would be great, maybe they would be awful.
But at the moment "proven passable (with potential to be either good or awful in the future)" still strikes me as preferable as "proven awful".
Again, I fully believe that the writers of HO are couple and potentially might be capable of creating a story that is good and satisfying even to the doubters if it is set up the right way. I'm just saying that based on the JPC story alone, I'm not falling over myself to want a SE at all costs. I would be just as happy with Craig not returning or with the "happy ending" being JP kicking Craig in the curb and truly realizing just how much he doesn't need Craig. I'm open to a well written SE. But any of these other versions would be just as satisfying to me. I just happen to not see as a particularly great prize so the thought of JP taking off with him doesn't hold any personal luster for me particularly because the "basis" of the relationship is not all that believable/compelling enough to me that I couldn't buy JP getting over C and never being capable of being happy otherwise.
(it's a bit like Chris and VL on boxing. the storyline could peak with him becoming a great and successful boxer or it could end with him dropping out of boxing because he realizes he doesn't need it; because the basis for him wanting to box in the first place is sketchy enough that either option sounds equally compelling to me at this point)
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bugchicklv
New Member
Boys Will Do Boys (YAY!)
Posts: 121
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Post by bugchicklv on Jun 14, 2008 2:16:53 GMT -5
I can't find the post, in fact I'm not even sure which thread it's on at this point...but I agree with the person/people who said that we needed to see Craig go through this great transformation in order to believe he's really changed.
Well, I know *I* do.
And while I'd love for him to kiss JP, openly and public--in front of a crap-load of people--to show me that he has changed, I'm not sure it's enough. If it's not done right I guess I am saying it might feel like a cop-out.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 14, 2008 2:18:49 GMT -5
I do have enough faith in the HO writers to think that they know that and will try to do something about it.
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Post by jaymac74 on Jun 14, 2008 5:24:13 GMT -5
I completely accept that you don't like Craig but I fail to see why just being sure about one's sexuality would make for a good relationship - if that's the only criteria then given time Craig and JP will be just fine.
Lets not forget that Kieron is a lot older, so has had the time he needed to come to terms with being gay.
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Post by lolaruns on Jun 14, 2008 6:25:46 GMT -5
I completely accept that you don't like Craig but I fail to see why just being sure about one's sexuality would make for a good relationship - if that's the only criteria then given time Craig and JP will be just fine. No, it's not that it's the only requirement, but it's pretty much one fo the mandatory requirements if the relationship is not supposed to end in chaos and pain. (kinda like it's not a good idea to get into a relationship with a known serial cheater or wifebeater or just generally somebody who has hurt you before) There are plenty of ways for K to fail the mandatory requirements, the problem is that in my eyes Craig has already failed them. K might fail them in the future, Craig already has. Again, this is not about K. As far as I see it, JP is fully free to dump K and find somebody even better for himself (except I kinda get the impression that maybe JP likes some element of drama; but you can still have drama + mandatory requirements; it's not one or the other). And the whole issue is that there is no time. SE is supposed to happen a few months from now. And chances are that neither actor is gonna stick around for Craig to do a proper "this is how Craig grew in front of our eyes and became sane" storyline. Hence, people's doubts that the SE will be anything other than a cop out if they rush it.
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Post by cakefan on Jun 14, 2008 11:41:43 GMT -5
I completely accept that you don't like Craig but I fail to see why just being sure about one's sexuality would make for a good relationship - if that's the only criteria then given time Craig and JP will be just fine. There are plenty of ways for K to fail the mandatory requirements, the problem is that in my eyes Craig has already failed them. K might fail them in the future, Craig already has. Again, this is not about K. As far as I see it, JP is fully free to dump K and find somebody even better for himself (except I kinda get the impression that maybe JP likes some element of drama; but you can still have drama + mandatory requirements; it's not one or the other). And the whole issue is that there is no time. SE is supposed to happen a few months from now. And chances are that neither actor is gonna stick around for Craig to do a proper "this is how Craig grew in front of our eyes and became sane" storyline. Hence, people's doubts that the SE will be anything other than a cop out if they rush it. No, it's not that it's the only requirement, but it's pretty much one fo the mandatory requirements if the relationship is not supposed to end in chaos and pain. (kinda like it's not a good idea to get into a relationship with a known serial cheater or wifebeater or just generally somebody who has hurt you before) I do agree on the serial cheater or wifebeater issues, but I respectfully disagree when you say it's never a good idea to get into a relationship with someone who has hurt you before. There is such a thing as forgiveness and in almost every relationship you do get hurt along the way. Whether or not the relationship gets mended after that totally depends on how much you love them, how much they love you and whether or not there is reason to think they would do it again. Hurting someone is not addicitive and it is not like serial cheating or wifebeating. John Paul dated Craig during his coming out process and it was for fear of coming out that Craig caused both Sarah and JP all this hurt. But Craig is out now (his mom tells the local priest her son is gay - I would say that that was quit "out") so there is no reason to think that things will get that bad again. So, if JP can forgive him for the hurt he caused (and I think he has already done that, it's not the pain he talks about when he talks about Craig) I think there is a chance he will take Craig back. Which is not to say there wasn't any work to be done: he wasn't comfortable with the label and he couldn't manage to show his affection in public. But those ARE things one can work on. Most of all this kind of self-security is something that, once someone has it, is not going to go away again (unlike with the cheater or the wifebeater) - and it will make that person all the happier. I think during his year away - having been left behind at the airport by the person he changed his life around for, the person he came out for - Craig has had plenty of time to get his head round things and has probably been doing not much else for at least the first part of that year. I am sure he's had enough time and plenty of reason to get rid of his doubts about his sexuality. He has had plenty of time to work things out - all he needs to do in those few weeks on screen is to convince John Paul of that. If Kieron can convince everyone he really loves John Paul in 10 to 15 episodes, I think Craig of all people should be able to convince everyone he is finally worthy of John Paul in about the same amount of episodes. That is, if the writers do their job properly.
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quan87
Junior Member
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Post by quan87 on Jun 14, 2008 21:59:52 GMT -5
All hope for os for Craig to comeback and it's bye Kieron or Who cares that Craig back I got Kieron with me. I want some good emotional scenes where he struggles with both. I want that.
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Simone
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Post by Simone on Jun 15, 2008 15:21:14 GMT -5
I am confident that we will definitely see John Paul fighting his feelings for Craig because of his love for Kieron. I actually expect that John Paul to reject Craig right away, but he will be reluctantly be drawn to Craig as he sees how Craig has matured in his year away. Kieron, of course, will become of John Paul's rekindled feelings for Craig and thing will go from there. I suspect that this story won't be more than a couple weeks, but it will be intense. I think that the Hollyoaks' writers will do a good job.
I don't expect the John Paul/Kieron fans to be happy no matter how the John Paul/Craig reunion occurs, but the McDeaners no doubt will be very pleased. I'm looking forward to the story since I'm still surprised Guy is returning. I hope that he has matured as an actor so he holds his own in scenes James and Jake.
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Post by cakefan on Jun 15, 2008 15:50:39 GMT -5
I am confident that we will definitely see John Paul fighting his feelings for Craig because of his love for Kieron. I actually expect that John Paul to reject Craig right away, but he will be reluctantly be drawn to Craig as he sees how Craig has matured in his year away. Kieron, of course, will become of John Paul's rekindled feelings for Craig and thing will go from there. I suspect that this story won't be more than a couple weeks, but it will be intense. I think that the Hollyoaks' writers will do a good job. I don't expect the John Paul/Kieron fans to be happy no matter how the John Paul/Craig reunion occurs, but the McDeaners no doubt will be very pleased. I'm looking forward to the story since I'm still surprised Guy is returning. I hope that he has matured as an actor so he holds his own in scenes James and Jake. How did you find Guy's acting immature before? (I mean during the McDean storyline - before that, I can see what you mean) I think he did a great job with a script that can't have been easy to act out (seeing that his character was blowing hot and cold at the same time almost all of the time)... Of course James is brilliant, but Jake, well apart from having a wonderful voice, I don't find him such a brilliant actor that Guy couldn't be his match. It's going to be good though. One thing to make me happy about Kieron would be for him to not put too much pressure on John Paul, fully accepting his own responsibility for leaving the Church and not expecting JP to stay with him just because of that. Even not accepting it once he has seen how much JP still loves Craig. As he is the older, more mature one, I think it would be beautiful if they would let him tell JP to go, go to his ex-boyfriend. And then we get a heartbreaking kiss goodbye... It won't make Kieron happy, but he will have done the right thing and he'll be able to walk through Hollyoaks shoulders straight head up
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carld2
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Post by carld2 on Jun 27, 2008 22:02:28 GMT -5
Did any of you wonder why they had Frankie somewhat clumsily mention Craig after she found out about John Paul and Kieron, but they didn't mention why Craig wasn't at Steph's wedding?
Do you think Max giving OB a watch with an inscription on the back was supposed to remind us of McDean?
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Post by jaymac74 on Jun 27, 2008 22:46:43 GMT -5
I am confident that we will definitely see John Paul fighting his feelings for Craig because of his love for Kieron. I actually expect that John Paul to reject Craig right away, but he will be reluctantly be drawn to Craig as he sees how Craig has matured in his year away. Kieron, of course, will become of John Paul's rekindled feelings for Craig and thing will go from there. I suspect that this story won't be more than a couple weeks, but it will be intense. I think that the Hollyoaks' writers will do a good job. I don't expect the John Paul/Kieron fans to be happy no matter how the John Paul/Craig reunion occurs, but the McDeaners no doubt will be very pleased. I'm looking forward to the story since I'm still surprised Guy is returning. I hope that he has matured as an actor so he holds his own in scenes James and Jake. I personally think Guy did his maturing as an actor during McDean and that coupled with his immense chemistry with James will mean that he will more than hold his own with Jake and we already know that he can do so with James.
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Post by jaymac74 on Jun 27, 2008 22:54:44 GMT -5
I completely accept that you don't like Craig but I fail to see why just being sure about one's sexuality would make for a good relationship - if that's the only criteria then given time Craig and JP will be just fine. No, it's not that it's the only requirement, but it's pretty much one fo the mandatory requirements if the relationship is not supposed to end in chaos and pain. (kinda like it's not a good idea to get into a relationship with a known serial cheater or wifebeater or just generally somebody who has hurt you before) There are plenty of ways for K to fail the mandatory requirements, the problem is that in my eyes Craig has already failed them. K might fail them in the future, Craig already has. Again, this is not about K. As far as I see it, JP is fully free to dump K and find somebody even better for himself (except I kinda get the impression that maybe JP likes some element of drama; but you can still have drama + mandatory requirements; it's not one or the other). And the whole issue is that there is no time. SE is supposed to happen a few months from now. And chances are that neither actor is gonna stick around for Craig to do a proper "this is how Craig grew in front of our eyes and became sane" storyline. Hence, people's doubts that the SE will be anything other than a cop out if they rush it. What about a JP grew up in front of our eyes and became sane storyline? - we haven't seen that yet!! We saw the beginnings of Craig's growth as a character in the last week after reveal - we will have to assume the rest has taken place off screen. We had to take at face value, that JP developed feelings for FK in their black hloe in April, despite their previous encounter where he told him that he hardly knew him.
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woowoo1
New Member
And breathe...
Posts: 40
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Post by woowoo1 on Jun 27, 2008 23:58:52 GMT -5
Did any of you wonder why they had Frankie somewhat clumsily mention Craig after she found out about John Paul and Kieron, but they didn't mention why Craig wasn't at Steph's wedding? Do you think Max giving OB a watch with an inscription on the back was supposed to remind us of McDean?That's a good possibility. I know I'm probably what some people would consider a delusional McDeaner, but HO has thrown in alot of things to remind the viewers that Craig still exists...and I'm sure alot more is going to start showing up now that Craig is on his way home. ;D The Craig mention was pretty obvious..."oh joy, John Paul is at it again" ( ) but I'd like to know why both Craig and Debbie weren't at the wedding. The Deans are dropping like flies.
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