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Post by brownsugar on Feb 28, 2009 0:22:57 GMT -5
Sometimes I think Olli deserves his little freak-outs because he has gone through a lot with other people. The weird thing for me is that he's always doing it when he can't get the little things and somehow I understand why he has to be like that to get his deserved attention. Like when he wanted to have a romantic evening with Christian and nothing happened he insisted to make a whole trip together and now he wanted more to do at Charlies place and when she didn't realize it on her own he had the idea to change the place or that he wants to work somewhere else. It seems like a drastic way to be appreciated, the way he also said something like "You don't want me here" to Charlie and the way he assumed Christian wouldn't like a loser like him as a boyfriend. So, I have to feel sorry for him when he acts a little childish because I think he wants to feel needed. It's nice he shared his mood with Christian (I don't think he did it the same way with Gregor,Stella and Charlie) just like Christian only showed his feeling to Olli when he had the boxing drama. Really thoughtful post mona...And I agree with you regarding Olli's acton's, which do come off as whinny and childish. But you know...Olli, through no fault of his own since he's just this naturally sweet and caring person, feels he has to stamp his feet in order to get heard. His somewhat drama queen type behavior is a result of Olli feeling so little and unnoticed among those around him, even his boyfriend who is moving forward with his career. And I think Olli isn't as self confident as he makes out to be. His comment to Christian about being the loser boyfriend, shows his insecurity and self deprivation, even though Christian would love him even if he cleaned toilets for a living. He was happy in Ibiza. He felt like a somebody. Hell...people would come from afar to taste his famous cocktails. So coming back to the same dead end job has put him in a state of depression. I loved this episode so much. Almost ten minutes of pure Ollian bliss. I loved the support Christian is giving Olli. And what a lovely moment in the flat when Christian made Olli know he loves him no matter what, followed by that sweet little kiss. Now I must be honest and say...I'm a little concerned with how Olli has rushed into this Nolimits partnership, but he's such a sweet person that you really want him to succeed. I'm so excited to see the unfolding of Olli's career storyline. Thanks so much nanna, Ivan and tihkron for the clips put up so quickly.
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nryabenko
Junior Member
Love does not discriminate
Posts: 537
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Post by nryabenko on Feb 28, 2009 0:29:11 GMT -5
Here's a question: How is Olli going to be earning money? Will he still be working for Charlie?
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Post by brownsugar on Feb 28, 2009 0:33:52 GMT -5
I must add to the chorus of those who want that hideous cardigan that Olli is wearing to disappear and fast. I must admit it's a toss up between this plaid monstrosity and the horrible fish Teeshirt which rears it's ugly head once in a while. But I love Christian's leather jacket, except it only highlights even more the designer failure of Olli's cardigan. Good thing Jo is such a handsome man which helps to distract.
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Post by brownsugar on Feb 28, 2009 0:42:53 GMT -5
Here's a question: How is Olli going to be earning money? Will he still be working for Charlie? Good question...i'm guessing he will quit Charlie's to put all his energy into turning around Nolimits. I reckon he will use the 30,000 euros to help redesign the place as well as live off for a while, until The New Nolimits starts pulling a profit. On the other hand...he may work at remodeling Nolimits during the day and then work at Charlie's during the evening hours to earn his rent and food money.
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Post by tihkon2 on Feb 28, 2009 0:49:28 GMT -5
nryabenko
I would assume he'll draw a paycheck from NoLimits. It's what Gregor does probably.
re: Olli's Sweater/Vest/Cardi.....My sister had one like that in the mid-eighties.
re: Olli's outstretched pose. Sheepie , I too , thought instantly of "Titanic". And yes, in the clip he really does seem like Fraulein Maria . ;D
I'm glad folks are enjoying this mini-storyline. I'm hoping for something more dramatic later though.
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Zam
Full Member
Posts: 1,805
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Post by Zam on Feb 28, 2009 1:11:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the sub-titles Nanna, and Tihkon thanks for the link. Even though Olli's such a drama queen, I had a big silly grin on my face after watching this. He's a cute drama queen. ;D Let me join the chorus of thanks for the link, the vid and the subs. Let me also say "whew!" in relief that what I saw in Christian's body language was more cautionary and "sleep on it" than pooh-poohing Olli's ideas. It seems sudden, to be sure, but he did make those drinks for Carla and Nathalie and Christian at Schneiders nearly a month ago. It was the same day that Carla sat down for some champagne with Ilke.
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Post by lolaruns on Feb 28, 2009 3:37:25 GMT -5
Sometimes I think Olli deserves his little freak-outs because he has gone through a lot with other people. The weird thing for me is that he's always doing it when he can't get the little things and somehow I understand why he has to be like that to get his deserved attention. Like when he wanted to have a romantic evening with Christian and nothing happened he insisted to make a whole trip together and now he wanted more to do at Charlies place and when she didn't realize it on her own he had the idea to change the place or that he wants to work somewhere else. It seems like a drastic way to be appreciated, the way he also said something like "You don't want me here" to Charlie and the way he assumed Christian wouldn't like a loser like him as a boyfriend. So, I have to feel sorry for him when he acts a little childish because I think he wants to feel needed. It's nice he shared his mood with Christian (I don't think he did it the same way with Gregor,Stella and Charlie) just like Christian only showed his feeling to Olli when he had the boxing drama. See, I think with this Olli officially loses the right to play the "the world is unfair" and "why do I never have any luck?" card for the rest of his life. I think it's just really unfair that he claimed nothing good ever happens to him and like Charlie is some sort of horrible person when in the past Charlie has _always_ come through for him and she really didn't deserve Olli acting like she was some mean person you can't even talk to. Most of the time we don't know whether Olli has been suffering in silence secretly or not. I think with this storyline I think we can say we _know_ that Olli probably doesn't suffer nearly as much as he pretends he does. He acted like it was all a big, horrible insult happening to him even though we _know_ that he didn't even spend 24 hours in this state. How can he act offended and hurt just because the bank won't just send him money on the phone? He didn't even try to work out a sophisticated proposal, he didn't even go there personally, he didn't even try to call more than one bank. Same with his proposal to Charlie, he didn't even try to create something that would have been a reasonable compromise between the Schneiders and what he wanted, he didn't even try to carefully prepare her before springing it on her, he didn't try to wear her down slowly over time. How about asking her for dinner or a talk after hours instead of springing it on her zwischen Tür and Angel in the middle of work with guests all around them? Maybe Olli and Charlie could have talked about it *sanely* and could have reached a "these are good ideas, why don't you utilize them on somethign else, I'd be willing to fund it maybe" understanding. He comes across like somebody who wants things handed to him immediately (like the loan on the phone) and throws a self-pitying tantrum if the world doesn't hand it to him immediately. Which in the end usually does lead to the world handing it to him after all (Charlie giving him 30.000, Christian offering to blow off his exam). I wasn't sure before whether Olli was just exceptionally good at hinding his feelings, but after this storyline, I think he is just a make a mountain our of a molehill personality. So most of the time when he says that he has been suffering for weeks (like when he said he and Christian hadn't had sex for ages before the fight when a week before we saw them teasing each other about sex, or like when he claimed that Christian hadn't spent time with him for ages before Ibiza when a week before we saw them coming home from a club after dancing the night away, like here when he says he has been unhappy at Schneiders when we saw him in a good mood, teasing Stella about Carla just a week earlier), in reality he probably just thought of it just a moment before and now structures it as something that has been going on for weeks. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he does that maliciously. I think the feelings feel that intense to him when he experiences them and he just goes into drama queen mode. I also think that it doesn't mean anything bad for the Ollian relationship because Christian seems to be aware of Olli's drama queen tendencies and is either used to them or even thinks they are cute. I just don't like it when Olli doesn't seem to give people any credit. Like Charlie is being unreasonably because she takes more than 5 minutes to give him what he wants. It kinda reminds me of when Christian didn't give Gregor any credit and insisted that Gregor would be a big horrible person who would stop loving him and kick him out if he found out that Christian was gay. Same here with Olli acting like Charlie couldn't possibly be talked to despite all the wonderful things she has done for him in the past (paying off his debt during the drug phase, giving him a job, letting him extend his vacation indefinitely, now giving him 30.000 with no strings attached even though he didn't even bother to put together a sound business plan). I don't mind Olli's drama queen mode because it is kinda cute and endearing, but I'm also firmly at the point where I think that you can't take his drama queen moods and utterings that seriously. And I wish his fits of self-pity didn't come at the expense of others when he acts like it is their fault and they are being mean to him.
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Post by Bonobochick on Feb 28, 2009 4:29:13 GMT -5
Thanks Ivan, Tikhon and Nanna! The clips for this week are up on the blog. ;D
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aldebaran
Full Member
Halunke, Ich liebe Dich so sehr!
Posts: 1,506
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Post by aldebaran on Feb 28, 2009 16:38:41 GMT -5
Yes, thanks a lot, VL Team! Ihr seid TOLL! Nice episode, I really liked it. It was about time for an Olli's storyline. And it's great to see Christian support Olli for once. I'm eager to see how the story is going to develop. Can't wait!
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Post by lugia on Feb 28, 2009 16:45:06 GMT -5
So, I have to feel sorry for him when he acts a little childish because I think he wants to feel needed. I also got this impression. On the surface he might just seem impulsive and frustrated when things don't go his way right away. Like everyone just waited for his ideas. But deep down I think he got used to being disappointed and prefers to go back into his safe shell of not trying anything and being the easy, cheery friend which he's good at. Then everyone is happy. He may seem like a quitter, but that's because in his history projects have always failed. He said something like "I always have bad luck." I think he's a little traumatized. I'm thinking about, for example, trying to forget about his feelings for Christian because he was hetero and not even attempting to fight for him. He just wanted to be friends, really, and for Christian to stop treating him like dirt. That's not aiming very high. It's like his soul would be crushed otherwise (like when Christian wanted to leave for Goa). Olivia had to push him to stand up for himself. To me it stems from his mother Henriette disowning him because he was bi. He can't really take people being unkind to him. It gets to him. They're not worth his energy and he blocks them out. He'd rather be looked at as a failure by them than swim against the current without luck, save his breath, lead a good life on his own. On the other hand, he's so full of energy and most of the time still believes in himself, that when enough time has passed, he's hopeful that it can't be so hard, i.e. owning his own pub. He tries his luck. But then reality sets in, he is dependent on other people again that may not see it his way (Gregor, Charlie) and he's depressed right away when little things go wrong, and cuts his losses. But it's just in part because he's impatient. I think it's like Christian said, he takes it way too personally, because he's a kind soul and people haven't responded in an equally kind way in the past. They've kind of succeeded in demoralizing him for years and Christian is the perfect match for him with his more conservative values, sitting it out, fighting, believing hard work will get you somewhere, that his aunt is on Olli's side, etc.
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Post by tyranamiros on Feb 28, 2009 18:47:49 GMT -5
Olli is a guy who is generally passive, but occasionally has these obsessive "projects". Frequently they seem to revolve around people's "dreams", like Christian and the sports college last March. Also, I think Olli and Christian's fight right before the boxing match was one of these moods. I think many times they turn out positive, but often they hurt a lot of people in the process.
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 1, 2009 1:45:29 GMT -5
I think he was just being impatient. He saw the opportunity to have his dream fulfilled the next day and then it was gone. Of course it would upset him. And he's really not that unsuccessful, he's more lucky than many other people. When Christian had asked him back then what his dream was he did not tell him, because he could not. But he wasn't thinking about his dream job Those outbursts came from feeling to be taken for granted, but even in this respect he can't really complain lately , at least with Christian and that's where it matters.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 1, 2009 10:37:22 GMT -5
But how is taking it personally when people don't give him money immediately (even though he has given him no reason for why they should give him money [for starters, when trying to get money from Charlie he never once said "I'll pay you back"]) being upset that he is being taken for granted? To me that is just a bit bratty. Which imo, is not a bad thing necessarily, everybody needs to have a few character flaws and being bratty can be a rather endearing one . But in this case my real sympathy for Olli is rather low. (and again, nobody expects Olli to be 100% nice and never trash talk his boss; but there is a difference between me interpreting a scene as "Olli is being bratty/shooting off his mouth" or interpreting it as "Olli's words are justified and complete truth and all those people really are horrible")
It seems to me that the current situation shows an exorbitant amount of luck so to me (just as Olli is hitting a tiny snag in his job a different opportunity presents itself and his aunt is willing to just hand him over the money apparently with zero strings attached and no claims of control; that is not Olli getting what he deserves, that is just insane and unrealistic amounts of luck), at the very least Olli should not get to use this particular complaint ever in the future.
(though I think that managing to get previously straight Christian as his boyfriend, apparently getting to run a club in Ibiza spontaneously, managing to escape from the mob unscathed even though he stole from his friends and family and having his aunt pay off his gambling debt again with no strings attached all show Olli being very lucky in his life previously to this; and it's not like it is the world's fault that Olli dropped out of college and became a waiter; that was his own doing)
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 1, 2009 12:01:09 GMT -5
I meant previous cases, this wasn't really an outburst was it. Just a bit of frustration.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 1, 2009 12:23:20 GMT -5
But he was still being very melodramatic about it. And it strikes me as a trend with him. Doesn't mean that in other cases he was more justified, but it seems to me maybe some of those other cases were at least mixing justified with Olli being melodramatic.
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Post by mona on Mar 1, 2009 13:33:34 GMT -5
I think Olli thought Charlie should give him the money because that's probably what he would do if someone needs the money to do something big/serious (at least if he loves the one). It's not like he didn't do things for Charlie. He left his last job on the ship because Charlie was alone and told someone else she wants him to stay.
Charlie was bitchy when Olli asked her too. She responded like a business woman and talked to Olli as an employee but Ollis actions showed he was asking her because she's his aunt and a very important person in his life.
I'm a little concerned for Christian and Olli because Charlie/Olli was sometimes rough because there wasn't a line when they worked. Sometimes it was "Go home sweetie, you look tired" then Charlie was treating him like everyone else "Go back to the bar". At least for me, working with the family would be horrible.
I don't know if Olli would have asked her without Christians idea. but Christian had a point. She has money. It's weird, you would probably give a kidney to a family member for nothing but if it is about money, it has to be strict.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 1, 2009 13:40:29 GMT -5
But isn't is slightly dellusional to still expect her to just hand over 30.000 Euros? I have a rich uncle too and I would never do that. Especially not without a plan about how it can benefit him too or how I have a great plan of how I will be able to pay him back.
And how can he expect her to respect this as something big/serious when he has just come up with it yesterday? He didn't even try to phrase it in an appealing way, not on a professional level nor on a "I wouldn't ask for it normally, but this is a special case that is really important" kind of way.
(1) Money has torn apart a lot of loving families. There is a reason why most people wouldn't go into business with family members or good friends if they have the choice.
(2) She has given him money before. Is it really too much to expect he should tell her why to give it to him/give her a reason? If it were up to Olivia she would extort money from Charlie daily. So yeah, I don't see how it makes Charlie bitchy just because she isn't excited about the idea immediately.
Olli didn't just ask for money, he was offended at the prospect that he should have to wait even 24 hours for it. Charlie might be well off, but I'm sure 30.000 into the drain isn't just nothing for her either.
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Post by mona on Mar 1, 2009 14:05:52 GMT -5
Hmmm, Somehow I believe you're right but I still understand Olli. It would be interesting to know how "rich" Charlie is (surley nothing compared to the Lahnsteins) She is in rich circles and I remember her trap for Bernd von Beyenback where she lured him with 100.000. It's possible Christian didn't know that Olli got money before (This would have been a good moment to show how much Christian knows about Ollis past) From the Ollian point of view it was good Gregor and Charlie didn't support Olli immediately because it was nice to see Christian as his supporter. I almost got disappointed that Gregor didn't present his new partner because Christian looked really pissed and tried to comfort Olli in this situation. Actually what I didn't like too much was the surprise because it looked like the grown-ups talked about everything and Olli got his little surprise like it was a birthday party for a child (like Christians and WHO is your new partner then?) But it was still adorable.
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 1, 2009 16:30:06 GMT -5
There's always a potential problem lending or borrowing money from family/friends, it puts all in a weird position when something goes wrong. BTW I wonder if Gregor's loan for Heli from the Internet will be revisited, that could bring troubles for NL. As for the surprise, Gregor always loved a bit of drama. When he found out about Olli and Christian he went on sulking the whole day making Christian feel miserable instead of directly telling him he's not such a twat Christian thought he was.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 2, 2009 5:53:35 GMT -5
I think he was genuinely mad at that point though as opposed to him just plotting to pretend to be mad for a day. Gregor still went about it in an odd, not straight forward way (showing his love/affecting by handing Christian a contract), but to me that was just Gregor being Gregor, not Gregor holding out and punishing Christian or Gregor being playfull.
You are right, the setup had a playfull note, particularly because Christian was in it faster than Olli was, but I'm guessing Gregor just liked to recover by sort of making an entrance, making a show. Kinda like how he wanted to show off the No Limits pre-Christmas party to show Leo and Sarah that he was over them. Making a statement by making a show, not unlike Christian kissing Olli at the boxing ring when he could have given Olli all kinds of loving assurances even before the fight when they were arguing. Seems like both Mann brothers sometimes love a big flashy statement.
Charlie's money seems to be a very fluent thing. On one hand the show wants to sell her as a lot less well off than the Lahnsteins (and compared to them her lifestyle is not that glamorous), on the other hand, she always seems to come out with money when the plot requires it. She now gave Olli money to co-own the No Limits, she became silent partner in Brandner Bau when Arno was in danger of bankruptcy. Didn't she also buy the old-old flatshare during the Tom and Olli story? She is like the magical money fairy who flies in and fixes everybody's problems.
But she wouldn't blindly give Olivia money, didn't buy Olivia out of her debt and even with Arno the show made it obvious that she would have an eye on Brandner Bau, so it firmly wasnt just giving money away as a present to everybody who comes close to her. And I think that is a good thing. It wouldn't be a healthy situation if it came across like everybody is just mooching off Charlie and can drain her for more money any time without any reason, justification or without seriously exploring other ways to get money. It also wouldn't be healthy for those people around her if they could always just tell themselves "Oh sure, no reason to ever work, Charlie will take care of it anyway!.
Take the potential No Limit debt. Why should we even worry about it if the gist of the current storyline is that if they ever get into any trouble Olli just has to go whine to Charlie. She will roll her eyes, sigh and give him the money by the end of the day. How is there supposed to be any real tension/how wouldn't any tension come off as really fake?
Which is why I really would have prefered it if they had discussed the requirements of her giving Olli more. If for example she does expect him to pay it back and says if he can't pay her back and messes up she will come and take the shares of the No Limits from him. That means that if the NL got into financial trouble there would be real pressure/tension on Olli to fix the problem because he doesn't want to lose his independance/wants to stay in charge.
Or even if Charlie is giving it away as a gift, have Olli communicate that he knows that this is something really out of the ordinary and have him promise that he will never ask for money again, rather than protray him as somebody who considers this as normal and takes it for granted. Because then there would again be real tension because Olli could be upset that Gregor getting the NL in trouble will humiliate him if he is forced to go back to Charlie and ask for more money even though he promises that he is all grown up now and will never ask her for money again.
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Post by ivaniv on Mar 2, 2009 6:35:22 GMT -5
Charlie must have some money if she runs an upscale restaurant like Schneiders. Lahnsteins with their holding are in a different league. And let's be honest, 30K euro is a lot for some, but it's not that much. She could easily put that together, even I could ;D
I don't think Olli was expecting Charlie to be obliged to give him the money, he didn't want to ask her in the first place, I guess his thoughts were going the same way as hers, she'll lose him as a waiter and will pay for it as well. It's just there was this hope it may work out and there was no other option left. When she decided to help him I think she believed he would be successful rather than that he would be disappointed if she didn't help.
I think he'll be motivated enough to succeed even without Charlie spelling it out for him and us. And he will want to return the money so that a part of NL is really his. If anything there will probably be a conflict between him and Gregor if Gregor tries to use the money for the loan he got instead of an investment into NL. Maybe Gregor will lose it completely, right now he does not have money for a day to day operation of NL.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 2, 2009 7:09:26 GMT -5
Still, to me, the way he approached Charlie, it came across like somebody showing up dirty and in rags to a job interview and refusing to tell them anything about your background and then being offended and down that they don't give you the job. He didn't even try to make it sound like an appealing option for her. To, so far Olli hasn't indicated in any way that he intends to pay money back. Even if he secretly intends that, he didn't communicate to her at all that that was a thing that is likely to happen. Which to me is more or less the thing you have to do to communicate that you are a responsible person.
Just look at the low effort way he tried on the bank and from them he actually wanted money/expected to get money.
To me this "no other option left" is such bullshit to me. He didn't even try to talk to the bank in person, he didn't try to approach the bank or Charlie with a real thought out business plan, he didn't even try more than one bank (and don't tell me that that would be boring; so what? VL has no problems boring us with all the details of "Gregor loves his helicopter" or "the ups and downs of Lydia's blog" or "the so not inspiring story of Sarah's piano career"; it's all about dotting the i and crossing the ts). Again, to me it is the same mental image as the slacker who goes to the job interview and then complains that there is no way for him to get a job.
Sure you have the choice to present yourself as a slacker, but then you can't accuse the world of being unfair in not giving you a job.
And that's what bothers me, not about Olli the character (because I don't think that it is meant to come across this way), but about the way the story has been told. To me the way this is being rushed has Olli having put no effort in, but in turn turning around and complaining about life and cruel fate rather than approaching this in any realistic fashion. If he is aware of what a slim chance the whole thing was for completely realistic and justified reasons (it would make sense for Gregor not to be excited about a partner who has no money reserves and can only bring in additional debt, it makes sense for Charlie to not jump immediately if Olli doesn't even bother to present her with any sort of plan, it makes sense for the bank to turn down a loan if he has given them exactly jackshit reason beyond a phonecall). Instead he trashtalked the bank, acted like fate was out to get him and painted Charlie as an unapproachable, unreasonable person.
Again, I don't think that the show intends us to see Olli as a petulant slacker who gets things handed to him. But they are the ones who are too lazy to actually invest the screentime to actually show us Olli being organized and Olli putting in a professional effort and Olli really working for something he cares about. We saw exactly nothing of this and Olli's little bar presentation was about as far away from a truly professional business proposal as you can get and he was all ready to throw things down immediately when Charlie didn't jump on his proposal immediately. And would have stayed inactive if people hadn't handed him the opportunity on a plate by the end of the day.
Chances are good that Olli will prove his responsiblity in retrospect, but as it is, he got a huge break even though he didn't really put much work in. I wouldn't really mind Olli getting discouraged. Christian has had his own phases of being afraid to do something, or thinking he couldn't succeed, etc. But unlike Olli Christian generally sought the fault with himself (I'm an ex-con, I'm not good enough to manage without steroids) while Olli went right on to blame fate and the bank people rather than acknowledging that he wasn't prepared or that it was a long shot in the first place and that maybe he should try a slower approach.
Once more, I don't think that this is supposed to reflect Olli in a larger way, which is why my ire is with the lazy writers who don't bother with the details (like springing for a scene where Olli goes to see the bank people or even just comes back to talking to the bank people in person rather than just demanding a loan on the phone; or doing a scene where Olli actually has an endearing multi colored happy business plan in hand that he is trying to show Charlie but she blows him off). Like so many other episodes, I'm pretty sure that is won't even be a blip in the larger Ollian story, I don't think that it means to mean or foreshadow anything negative. I think it is just a straight up means to an end story and we are supposed to enjoy it by not looking too closely at the (imo kinda shady) nuts and bolts.
To me the episode still works in an endearing kind of way (Olli is whiny, Christian plays good boyfriend). But to me it doesn't work at all as "heroic Olli vanquishes the bad guys". It was an endearing episode of all the people who love Olli coming together, not an episode about Olli showing skills. He might show his skills at a later date, but this particular episode to me wasn't it.
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kes
Full Member
Without community, there is no liberation. Audre Lorde
Posts: 1,583
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Post by kes on Mar 2, 2009 16:04:15 GMT -5
Again, I don't think that the show intends us to see Olli as a petulant slacker who gets things handed to him. But they are the ones who are too lazy to actually invest the screentime to actually show us Olli being organized and Olli putting in a professional effort and Olli really working for something he cares about. We saw exactly nothing of this and Olli's little bar presentation was about as far away from a truly professional business proposal as you can get and he was all ready to throw things down immediately when Charlie didn't jump on his proposal immediately. And would have stayed inactive if people hadn't handed him the opportunity on a plate by the end of the day. Chances are good that Olli will prove his responsiblity in retrospect, but as it is, he got a huge break even though he didn't really put much work in. I wouldn't really mind Olli getting discouraged. Christian has had his own phases of being afraid to do something, or thinking he couldn't succeed, etc. But unlike Olli Christian generally sought the fault with himself (I'm an ex-con, I'm not good enough to manage without steroids) while Olli went right on to blame fate and the bank people rather than acknowledging that he wasn't prepared or that it was a long shot in the first place and that maybe he should try a slower approach. Once more, I don't think that this is supposed to reflect Olli in a larger way, which is why my ire is with the lazy writers who don't bother with the details (like springing for a scene where Olli goes to see the bank people or even just comes back to talking to the bank people in person rather than just demanding a loan on the phone; or doing a scene where Olli actually has an endearing multi colored happy business plan in hand that he is trying to show Charlie but she blows him off). Like so many other episodes, I'm pretty sure that is won't even be a blip in the larger Ollian story, I don't think that it means to mean or foreshadow anything negative. I think it is just a straight up means to an end story and we are supposed to enjoy it by not looking too closely at the (imo kinda shady) nuts and bolts. To me the episode still works in an endearing kind of way (Olli is whiny, Christian plays good boyfriend). But to me it doesn't work at all as "heroic Olli vanquishes the bad guys". It was an endearing episode of all the people who love Olli coming together, not an episode about Olli showing skills. He might show his skills at a later date, but this particular episode to me wasn't it. Lola, you hit the nail on the head -- I so appreciate your analysis. Reading what you say here makes me think of the overall issue of stereotyping: the writers don't care about Olli in the way that the world does not really care about gays (gay men or lesbian) and so wishes to hide them in the margins, or just write them as a trope, a cliche aside as seems to have happened with Olli, to some degree. I like the idea of Olli having issues - for I want Chris and Olli to have issues, to be a legitimate soap couple, i.e. be as messed up as all the rest. However, a deliberate character flaw is very different than one made of laziness. Strange -- I wonder how much harm is done when we are simply lazy? I mean, bothing to look at the other at all takes work. Look what Chroust (whom I admire quite a lot) did to poor Carla, in part because he did not know what it was to be a lesbian, it did not interest him and so he didn't invest the time and work it would take to write Carla well. But Chroust is so much better than 90% of the writers out there who don't observe "the other" at all. (Note: I know Chroust is openly gay, and so the Chrolli story is not an "other" to him -- but it still took work and guts for Chroust to be out, and to take the time and risk to write the characters so carefully. For this reason, I give Chroust all the more credit, even if he did kill off Carla's wife.) Anyway, thanks for the observations.
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Post by lolaruns on Mar 2, 2009 16:26:23 GMT -5
Actually TC didn't kill Susanne. Just wrote her off the show (and at least in the eyes of some forced her off the show because the actress did openly say that she didn't want to leave and she also didn't like how the story was concluded).
I'm not really sure if I'm quite ready to attribute negative motives to the new TPTB yet. And while there are other stories that aren't rushed or even the opposite of rushed (but again, mostly the new stories) it's not like they are the only story being rushed. And they did leave Ollian in the main official website banner. So I guess it is possible that all this kinda uninteresting stuff now will come into play and turn into a bigger storyline much later that year.
That said, like I said, even if it is relatively boring build up, it could have done much better, even with the limited screentime.
I could always see why people didn't like Chroust and I do think that he did a fairly indifferent job on the het couples (I always say that he seemed to not bother beyond placing two reasonably good looking people into a scene together and then expected fans to go crazy over them even though he never bothered to put in any real heart). What I liked about TC though is that he seemed to be really good in writing big interlacing storylines. Just how the different stories would be built up, how they would intersect. It wasn't even that obvious in the Ollian story because that was fairly isolated. But if you look at the Lahnstein story, Adrian revealed to Leo that he is his father and then brought back Ansgar's son Hannes to make Leo love him, which brought social worker Lydia to the show, which forced Tanja to give herself the aura of a respected business woman, which caused her to found a modelling agency, which is why she needed Sarah for her agency, which is why she tempted Olivia in putting Sarah on drugs, which in turn caused Ansgar to blackmail Olivia to break up Nathalie and Lars, etc, etc.
The stories sort of went around the canvas and every character had a good reason for being there. Sometimes I do think that he sacrificed characterization to further the plot (particularly Carla and the Lahnsteins fuelled by his desire to install Tanja at the castle even though there was no realistic reason for Ansgar to marry her again and not treat her like dogpoo; so realism and characterization had to go out of the door) but he was just a really good technical writer for this kind of thing.
I really miss that with the new writers. They try to do some umbrella storywriting like now with everybody getting together for Sebastian's abduction, but to me a lot of it feels a bit random at times and you don't always buy it for these characters.
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