HQ75
Full Member
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Posts: 4,200
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Post by HQ75 on Jun 25, 2012 15:09:45 GMT -5
I need some gay men to explain this to me because I'm honestly at a loss about what is going on on YT and I feel like guys here are a lot more balanced in their view of things (generally speaking)
I don't hold men to a different standard of behavior than women. If they are wrong, they are wrong.
But I do think that LGBT folks should know better when it comes to stereotyping each other and treating each other like crap because of our different ways of being masculine or feminine.
I feel like gays and lesbians SHOULD have a better understanding of how culturally constructed certain gendered behaviors are. For instance, men should only want to have sex with women and women should only want to have sex with men is a gendered expectation that we as lesbians and gay men know isn't true.
So much of what is seen as natural "Male" and "Female" behavior is about heterosexual expectations and they don't make sense when it comes to two men being together or two women being together.
When I see the kind of language used to talk about Robbie and Sean from Coronation Street and other not traditionally masculine men on soaps covered on this forum it's horrifying to me.
It is so antiquated and uninformed and backwards and I can't believe it's actual gay men(for the most part) saying these things about other gay men and really meaning it. The same language used against them by homophobic straight men is coming out of their mouths about other gay men.
To me, Will is JUST as dramatic and "drama queey" as Robbie on this show.
All anyone can talk about on YT is how flamboyant Robbie is and somehow that means he deserves whatever he gets.
Why is it okay for a man to punch walls and beat people up and throw a strop about things as long as he does it in a "manly" way? How many candy dishes need to get knocked over before Will get's called "dramatic"?
Why is Will's constant temper tantrums not seen as "dramatic" but Robbie's every utterance is?
So far Will has been reprimanded practically every week at work for not being able to control his temper, for yelling/threatening witnesses for not following directions and orders and for lashing out for ruining interrogations. He goes off in a huff if he doesn't get his way (with Robbie and at work) and he literally shoves stuff off his desk when his boss says something he doesn't like.
How is that less dramatic than Robbie? I mean, he just walked into an ally and beat a suspect senseless because he was mad and folks see that as LESS dramatic than Robbie being upset about the engagement party?
From my perspective, they are both hot tempered and could definitely communicate better with each other but they express their temper differently. They are both men, just different kinds of men (and would be whether they were gay or straight).
Yet Robbie seems to get the brunt of the insults from gay men on YT and they are all about his mannerisms, not the substance of what he's saying or the actual issue at hand.
It feels like listening to a bunch of straight men talking about gay men and I wouldn't put up with that kind of talk from them so why should I (or we) do so from other gay men?
I don't get it at all and I'd love to know why it's tolerated by other gay men or what you think about it.
I don't see how being "masculine" automatically makes you more of a man or a better man or worse, excuses you of your bad behavior.
Yet I see this with a lot of gay male characters and it's too the point where it is just unpleasant to even read the comments on YT because it's so homophobic.
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Post by Difficult Diva on Jun 25, 2012 19:37:43 GMT -5
Will's bringing home his issues from work and taking it out on Robbie. That's what the focus should be on. Not about how effeminate Robbie is or how "hot and manly" Will comes across as being. He's striking out at his partner, the man that he proposed to.
That's not "hot or manly".
HG75 - That's a great question, because I've been noticing those comments and NOT just for this show and the characters of Will and Robbie.
I find it sad, because it's like the storyline isn't being focused on, because some folks are so fixated on how "dramatic" Robbie is and how that type of guy could NEVER, EVER get someone like Will.
Everytime I see comments like that (and they keep growing in their intensity across numerous fictional gay storylines each and every year), I just keep thinking about that AfterElton article about Effeminacy and Gay Men that was published 6 months to a year ago.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 3, 2012 8:24:40 GMT -5
digitalspy posted a blip about the next episode, seems that River City has finally remembered why Will and Robbie got together in the first place (highlight to read): Robbie is a day away from facing his attackers in court, and it's clear he is extremely nervous. He wishes he had Will's support, but as Will worked on the case, he has to keep his distance from Robbie. As the day goes on, Robbie starts taking out his frustration on Will and they begin arguing. Will pushes Robbie aside, but the force of his push sees Robbie wounding his arm on a door frame. Will insists he didn't mean it, but Robbie is concerned.
Deek is less than impressed when he finds out that Will won't be supporting Robbie in court, and so the next day he turns up to be there for his friend. The trial does not go well, with Robbie and Hayley both slaughtered by the defense lawyer. With the outcome looking bleak, Will is called back to work and leaves Robbie to face the jury's result on his own… Source: www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a389295/robbie-faces-his-attackers-in-court.html
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 16, 2012 21:28:04 GMT -5
New clips courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 17, 2012 8:18:09 GMT -5
Digitalspy posted the next episode recap blip and it has the following (highlight to read): Meanwhile, Hayley has had an offer for the salon, but isn't too keen on the buyer. She offers Robbie the chance to buy it, but he doesn't have the cash. However, when Deek hears about this, he tells Robbie that he can get the money and they can go into business together. Robbie is delighted, but Will is less than impressed when he finds out. Source: www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a391386/raymond-takes-a-favor-from-the-wrong-guy.html
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 24, 2012 9:35:59 GMT -5
digitalspy posted the summary for the next episode of River City. It contained this spoiler (highlight to read): It's Hayley's final day in Shieldinch and she is tying up all the loose ends - and that includes trying to make Deek and Robbie friends again. As Hayley waves an emotional goodbye, Deek agrees to calling a truce with Robbie but makes it clear to Will that he isn't ready to let him off the hook quite so easily. Source: www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a394830/hayley-bids-farewell-to-shieldinch.html
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 30, 2012 15:51:35 GMT -5
Next part courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 30, 2012 16:11:40 GMT -5
Exit interview with Hayley (played by Pamela Byrne): www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/news/a396001/river-citys-pamela-byrne-i-cried-during-final-scenes.htmlShe and Gary Lamont (Robbie) are close friends in real life: Byrne stated that she will remain close to her co-star Gary Lamont, who plays Robbie Fraser.
"We are best friends - he even gave me away at my wedding earlier this year in New York. It just means we won't get to work together anymore which is a real shame.
"It's not very often you experience a genuine connection to another actor, where you really know how to bounce off each other, but we had that." [from the interview]
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cheerios
Full Member
If we could decide who we loved, it would be much simpler, but less magical.
Posts: 2,886
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Post by cheerios on Jul 30, 2012 16:51:43 GMT -5
Ok is it just me, or is Will coming off as a bit controlling and manipulative? Deek was being a good friend and wanting to help Robbie's dreams come true. But with Will it just seems like he wants Robbie tied to him and not be partners with Deek. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, it just felt funny to me.
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Post by kevvoi on Jul 31, 2012 8:31:27 GMT -5
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 7, 2012 8:46:25 GMT -5
Spoilers for the next episode of River City (highlight to read): Robbie and Will have been broken into. With Will working in Manchester, Deek steps in to help Robbie clear up the mess. Robbie tries to ring Will, but discovers that he has left his phone in the flat. He finds out it's not the only call that Will has missed, as there are numerous ones from someone named Edward.
Robbie is immediately suspicious, and when he realizes that Will has also locked a drawer in their bedroom, he crowbars it open. Edward's address is marked in a phone book in the drawer so Robbie steams round to the address, thinking he will catch Will red-handed. However, Edward is not who Robbie thinks he is… Source: www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a395475/robbie-prepares-for-a-showdown.html
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 7, 2012 9:11:00 GMT -5
Next clip courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 12, 2012 20:32:21 GMT -5
Next part courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by caitlinp on Aug 15, 2012 20:12:46 GMT -5
HQ75, you wrote the first post on this page a long time ago, but reading it reminds me of how sad I get when I read the youtube comments of people who don't realize that Will is being portrayed as someone who is abusive. At the very least he has anger issues. He's not being a man, and his behavior would be disturbing no matter if it was being displayed by a man or a woman.
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 21, 2012 6:16:49 GMT -5
Next part courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Aug 21, 2012 6:43:50 GMT -5
digitalspy posted the summary for the next episode (highlight to read): Elsewhere, Robbie is trying to drum up business for the salon, and asks Nicole to put flyers through doors. Nicole excels in the task after deciding that she needs to speak to people face-to-face rather than just putting information through letter boxes. Robbie is impressed and offers her a traineeship as a hairdresser. Nicole is delighted, but Leyla won't be too impressed at her dropping out of school without even discussing it with her. Not the most exciting storyline Source:http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a398856/big-bob-suffers-a-heart-attack.html
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 6, 2012 6:18:02 GMT -5
Summary for the next episode of River City (highlight to read): Elsewhere, Will is frustrated with the murder investigations and feels undermined when Gabriel is charged with the murder. He, after all, was looking at new leads and different avenues, as everyone knows Gabriel wouldn't kill anyone. Robbie is no support to him, and does nothing but wind Will up on a hugely stressful day. As Robbie bears the brunt of Will's frustration, Deek also pays the price of getting in the way.
Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a402038/gabriel-is-accused-of-murder.html
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 11, 2012 20:04:30 GMT -5
Spoilers for the next episode of River City (highlight to read): The residents of Shieldinch are waiting to hear news of Deek as he is taken to hospital. Eventually, Raymond, Bob, Robbie and Stella hear from doctors that Deek is in a stable but critical condition.
Bob goes in to see Deek and is delighted when he opens his eyes. Although he is not out of the woods, the group are pleased that he is awake and talking.
Relieved that Deek is conscious, Raymond goes home to get a sleep, and finds Sean in the Tall Ship. After the last few hours Raymond has had, he is in no mood to listen to Sean's demands and finally puts him straight. This confrontation proves to be a catalyst for a series of far-reaching consequences for Raymond and the Shieldinch locals.
Meanwhile, a guilty conscience prompts Will to make it his mission to find out who is behind the accident. Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a403952/deek-is-seriously-ill-in-hospital.html
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 18, 2012 17:28:06 GMT -5
Spoilers for the next episode of River City (Highlight to read): It's time for the whole of Shieldinch to say goodbye to Deek, as Shirley and Iona also return to support the community.
Raymond is trying to focus on the day ahead, but Stevie nervously asks questions about what is going to happen to them. He just can't get recent events out of his head and the enormity of Raymond's actions. Raymond tries to convince him to relax, but Stevie has a lot to lose.
As the day unfolds, Raymond's guilt will soon get the better of him, and with Will watching events unfold, it will be hard for suspicion not to mount. Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a405863/shieldinch-bids-farewell-to-deek.html
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 19, 2012 6:49:18 GMT -5
Next part courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 21, 2012 17:59:53 GMT -5
Next clip courtesy of Anthony's channel:
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Post by kevvoi on Sept 26, 2012 7:22:29 GMT -5
digitalspy posted the summary for the next episode (highlight to read): Will is doing his best to cover the truth about events at the Tall Ship, but it's getting harder to do. DCI Donald wants to close the case with a positive outcome and quickly.
Will has Raymond and Stevie under control, but when Sean Kennedy's father turns up in Shieldinch, everything becomes a little trickier… Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a407078/will-tries-to-cover-up-the-truth.html
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Post by kevvoi on Oct 3, 2012 6:56:42 GMT -5
Digitalspy posted a brief blip about Will for the next episode (Highlight to read): Gabriel's court date is looming. His lawyer Hamish isn't very optimistic about his chances of getting away with murder - after all, his scarf was used to strangle Angie and all evidence points to him. Hamish tells Gabriel that he might be best to plead guilty. Gabriel is determined to fight to clear his name, but soon realises he is in for a tough battle.
Later, Gabriel has one silver lining when he convinces Raymond to withdraw his statement that put Sean in the clear. However, when Charlene turns up in Shieldinch, Gabriel's family soon realise that he was in business with prostitutes and turn against him. With no family, suddenly Gabriel finds that he has nothing to lose anymore.
Meanwhile, Will is doing his best to solve the case and is convinced that Gabriel isn't to blame. However, he needs to find evidence to prove it, and that isn't going to be easy. With such a harrowing case to work on, Will's thoughts turn to his father. He decides to ring him to ask him to the wedding, and is in for a pleasant surprise. Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a408861/gabriel-fears-his-future-looks-bleak.html
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Post by kevvoi on Oct 11, 2012 7:13:59 GMT -5
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Post by kevvoi on Oct 17, 2012 20:37:49 GMT -5
Digitalspy posted the summary for the next episode (highlight to read the relevant part): Meanwhile, Robbie and Will are both very nervous about their parents meeting this evening, and their concern is mainly Will's dad. However, when Edward appears he is charm and charisma personified, and Robbie's mum and dad are delighted to spend time with him. Sadly though, when Robbie is left alone with him, he realises that Edward is not as happy with the wedding plans as he appears to be. Source: www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s17/river-city/spoilers/a429968/nicole-goes-too-far.html
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