|
Post by tihkon2 on Aug 5, 2008 2:13:19 GMT -5
OK, I have to...
If you watch in High Quality those aren't two orange ducks in the tub. They're under the water that Christian is swirling around. I'm 99.9% sure they are two little orange feet stickers pasted to the bottom of the tub. Most likely to prevent you from slipping in the tub. We had yellow ones like that in our tub when I was growing up. Still cute IMHO that the boys have them in their tub.
|
|
RJ
New Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by RJ on Aug 5, 2008 4:17:20 GMT -5
Thank you! I've actually be lurking for a while, but usually I can't find anything more to say besides "OH MY GOD DID YOU SEE THE THING WITH THE THING THAT WAS SO CUTE?!?! OH MY GOD AND THEN THEY LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND! AND IT WAS REALLY CUTE!" and people beat me to it. I know what you mean. By the time I get around to check the forum after work, there are already pages and pages of commentary on the latest episode, analyzing every little detail.
|
|
RJ
New Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by RJ on Aug 5, 2008 4:47:46 GMT -5
Thanks again, Ivan, Nanna &Tihkon!
I watched the unsubbed clip first, then again with subs and loved it both times. I'm repeating everyone else's reactions but Ollian was just so cute. Loved that this time, it's Christian draping himself over Olli, rather than the other way around two episodes ago.
|
|
andru
New Member
Posts: 96
|
Post by andru on Aug 5, 2008 5:13:21 GMT -5
There's something I noticed: Where is Charlie??? She was at Christian's fight but obviously she didn't join the party afterwards. Or did I just not see her?? Well, I'm really looking forward to today's episode even though I know, it will be hard to watch it. Sometimes a little pain and drama can make me happy, too!!^^ I hope Christian will comfort Olli in a real special way, whatever it will be .
|
|
|
Post by sheepiefarm on Aug 5, 2008 7:07:57 GMT -5
I can't put my finger on it - but I wasn't feeling this episode . Christian's speech was great but the crowd reaction seemed wrong to me. I would have expected stunned silence, not enthusiastic cheering and applause. I would have expected this from the point of view that most people were supposedly unaware of Christian's sexuality and they've suddenly just been confronted with him eating the face off a guy in the middle of the ring. It has also been drummed into us as viewers how homophobic the boxing world is - that notion has been the driving force behind the storyline for weeks now. Yet here we are with a Disneyesque ending.......The post fight celebrations seemed a bit flat to me too and the party seemed to be one of THE most uncomfortable situations ever. Everyone was so busy with thier own problems that no-one really seemed to be enthusiastically pleased to be there (except Olivia, though her presence was actually unwelcome ;D). Olli has once again had a dramatic character change, having gone from the "I'm fed up with the whole in the closet not getting any sex rage" back to the "I really care about the consequences of what you've done, are you sure you should have done it" person. A lot of the argument between them the day previously centered on Olli's frustration about the lack of intimacy between them and yet when Christian suggests they go upstairs Olli backs off stating that they should clear up first - I would have expected Olli to be champing at the bit and actively pushing Christian up the stairs at this suggestion if his anger and frustration from the day before were to be believed. I am aware that they had to have a reason for Olli to be on his own in NO-Limits to allow the gay-bashing story to take place but I can't help feeling that they're compromising characterisation in order to pursue storytelling....I'm also in two minds about Olli being overpowered by Axel so easily, yes, he was taken by surprise and has been drinking - on the other hand, during previous altercations between them Olli has always been agressivley in Axels face spoiling for a fight and usually has had to be held back by Christian. I am well aware that I will probably stand alone with my thoughts on this as there were plenty of kissing, hugging and loving look moments within the episode, but for me they become a little meaningless if they don't hold within the context of the characters or the storyline. This is however, just my view - maybe I expect too much.
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on Aug 5, 2008 8:47:52 GMT -5
I think we just have to go with the universal: it's soap writing and take it in-stride, sheepie. But, yeah, I agree, the plot seems to bounce around between conflicting motivations/characterizations a bit.
One thing was very clear, though: Christian FINALLY gets to show his true feelings to the world and he's damned proud of that! heh That kiss in No Limits right after Olli says how proud he was to be able to kiss Christian in public: the quick look to make sure people are watching (it seems) or as if to say, well here we are in public! then he does it. LOL
Yeah, it did seem a bit strange for Olli to be suddenly apprehensive about facing Axel. Of course, we all know it's a ploy for the start of a new plot. And, apparently, Olli doesn't know even basic self-defense techniques---because Axel has left himself wide-open to a swift, devastating kick to the crotch which would put an end to this assault rather easily---unless he tanked-up on crack or pcp, of course.
Geoff
|
|
sozment
Junior Member
Forget regret or life is yours to miss
Posts: 648
|
Post by sozment on Aug 5, 2008 8:55:55 GMT -5
I don't know, I think it was perfectly normal for Olli to forget all about the argument with Christian. The minute Christian grabbed his face in the ring, kissed him, proclaimed his love for Olli to the entire world (in Olli's mind), he most likely fell so MUCH MORE in love with him, that the world could have ended and he wouldn't have cared. I think it's iin perfect character with Olli. He has always been about loving Christian and always putting anything Christian wants or needs first. And now, for once Christian put him in the spotlight. Told everyone how much he loves Olli. I bet he was on Cloud 9. Only afterwards, away from the limelight was he able to settle down and realize what might be consequences to those actions. That might have brought back some old fears. And again, he seemed more afraid of what might happen to Christian. Always about Christian. And who strugs it off?? Christian. Who gets hurt? Olli. So, guess who is going to have one MAJOR guilt trip starting today? Yep.... poor baby.. both of them.
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Aug 5, 2008 9:13:03 GMT -5
There were things that bugged me about this episode but Olli being willing to clean up rather than jump Christian for sex wasn't one of them. I have no problem believing that Christian doing this for him totally eclipsed any complaints he might have had at the moment particularly since he had already realized that he had been petty (the "convo" with Lydia). IMO it would be selling Olli short anyway to say that having sex was all he cared about, was his whole problem and would have been the only way and the absolute way to fix it. Especially since Olli mentioned a bunch of times that having to hide was a problematic situations for him (to Gregor and in the fight with Chrstian as one of the sacrifices). The way I understood it, he was saying that among other things having to hide was a if not the central problem and sex was the (among other things like Christian being nice) reason he was willing to overlook this problem. But as soon as Christian stops having sex with him and isn't even being nice to him, what reason does Olli have to overlook things and bear with them? I never understood it at sex itself being the insurmountable trouble.
I was bugged more by some of the acting in that last scene. First they give each other lusty looks and then it's suddenly like somebody has clapped their hands, they go back to "normal" stance, changed positions, walks behind the counter and continue. I also wasn't too hot on the jerk away motion Jo/Olli did when he told Christian they had to clean up first. In fact there were a lot of little moments in this episode that to me felt like they were shot in a hurry. BUT that is likely just personal preference.
|
|
RJ
New Member
Posts: 134
|
Post by RJ on Aug 5, 2008 9:23:50 GMT -5
Olli was all up in Axel's face in the middle of a crowded No Limits in the middle of the day with Christian by his side. Quite a different matter late at night, all alone when crazy Axel bursts in.
I thought Olli and Christian's actions were perfectly consistent with what had been happening.
The argument between Christian and Olli the previous day was merely a tempest in a teapot, as the saying goes, and they both knew it. In his mind, Olli had already forgiven Christian when he decided to rush to the boxing match to support him. And Christian atoned for his recent treatment of Olli by publicly acknowledging their relationship and what Olli had to suffer through to be with him.
Also, Olli's not backing away from intimacy. Rather, he wants to pamper his man on the day of his great victory by closing shop for him, then joining him upstairs in a more private and romantic environment.
|
|
louisa
Junior Member
Thanks to rayslady for the Merlin slashiness!
Posts: 463
|
Post by louisa on Aug 5, 2008 9:26:47 GMT -5
There were a couple of things I wanted to pick out of this clip. Firstly, I just really liked Charlie's little wave when Christian thanked all his friends from the ring. Secondly, I notice most of Christian's friends seem to be women. I mean, I'm not expecting all his guy friends to necessarily be hugging him like the girls did, but still - Miriam, Rebecca, Judith, Lydia, even Olivia! Trying to remember if this has always been the way? Does he have any guy friends apart from Gregor and Olli? And finally...where did Axel procure his weapon from? I know there has been discussion before about what exactly it is - it looks like one of those extendable police batons. Still, I can't see if he had it in his hand when he came into No Limits (I don't think he did) and there doesn't look like there is much room for him to keep it in a pocket or something. I know this overanalysing a tad, but it confuses me. If he'd come in brandishing it, that might explain Olli's lack of action.
Just some thoughts!
|
|
sozment
Junior Member
Forget regret or life is yours to miss
Posts: 648
|
Post by sozment on Aug 5, 2008 9:27:53 GMT -5
While I didn't get the shoving away by Jo/Olli, I thought the lusty looks was a planned direction. I took that to be "lusty looks..stop. think "OK"..stop, try to gather yourself. As you get around the counter, decide you can't keep your hands off each other. Start again. THAT's when I got lost because Olli pushed him away? But oh well, who knows what the director thinks. I'm still wondering why the director insists on sticking extras in the way of the prinicipals. This is the only show I have ever seen where the prinicpals are constantly dodging the extras to get their lines out. LOL (one scene in particular comes to mind where Jo was practically ran over by an extra as he tried to talk to a jealous Christian the night that Christian told him he fell in love with him)
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Aug 5, 2008 9:28:00 GMT -5
Let's not forget that Axel also had a weapon. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly female who mostly gets taught to run and scream "Fire!" in situations like this unless you are some black karate belt (and usually not even then).
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on Aug 5, 2008 9:31:53 GMT -5
Yeah, lola! I'm going to go frame-by frame if I can. If he had it in his hand (it telescopes down to shorter than standard pencil), then, yeah---Olli might've perceived it as a small knife or something else---a weapon. And that's what he was backing away from.
hmmm.
Geoff
ps: well, I can't tell! It just seems to magically appear in his hand. hmmm
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Aug 5, 2008 9:39:05 GMT -5
He was close to Andi (there are like 3 different clips on youtube of "Andi is drunk at the No Limits and Christian hauls him off the barstool and takes him home"). He might have been a bit close to Constantin when the whole Andi/Lisa/Constantin dating situation there was going on, not to mention that Constantin is Nico's younger brother. He obviously doesn't like Fabian too much, nor does he seem to have a particular relationship with Sebastian (which would be out of character anyway, particularly now that the Sebastian/Lydia's mom thing has come out).
I don't think he was ever close to Paul (Lisa's brother) who was a close friend of Constantin's.
Basically, he seems to be reasonably close with whoever is in his age group and at the moment this age group largely consists of women.
But he considered Coco an important friend before he was dating her (at this point he didn't like Andi much yet) and he tried hard to retain a friendship with Nico after he stopped dating her.
I assume it's the same with Olli. We *know* Olli presumably a lot of casual friend (like when he asked the DJ to let Coco do her thing at the club), but I doubt they would have enough extra consistency to have that DJ or Mark from Schneiders show up at a party if Olli ever threw one.
During Olli's first strint I guess it was his luck that his flatshare had more male characters his age (Christian Toppe, Andi) and his female friends seemed to more from work (like Jule or Tom's sister Alexa).
Unfortunately a lot of VL friendships seem to depend on "who is currently in a storyline with you". Gregor was written as reasonably close to Angar during the Ansgar/Nathalie/Gregor/Max quadrangle times, as reasonably close to Leonard during the Jana/Leo/Sarah/Gregor times and when Cecile was staying at the flatshare but there really isn't much trace of that anymore.
|
|
dutchy
Junior Member
Posts: 772
|
Post by dutchy on Aug 5, 2008 9:51:06 GMT -5
My guess is that we won't see much of the beating and just go to a scene after the fact where they find him. Or Axel gets startled by somegthing and runs off. I have a hard time believing they would show the actual beating. I don’t think they will show the actual bashing either. At least I hope they don’t… I can hardly look away from my TV screen now that I’ve promised to take care of today’s recap, can I??!!
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on Aug 5, 2008 9:54:06 GMT -5
Yeah! Now, I'm finding that a bit strange: Christian doesn't *seem* to have any male friends or a 'best buddy'. Of course, we have to go with the 'it's a soap' for this strange lack. But, realistically, I don't know a single guy (Gay or Straight) who doesn't have a 'best buddy' to hang-out with.
Indeed, I've had to listen to so many complaints from couples in conflict: he wants to spend all his time with his friend, not me! etc and so on to the point it's a bit annoying. ;D
Geoff
|
|
|
Post by lolaruns on Aug 5, 2008 10:19:57 GMT -5
But, realistically, I don't know a single guy (Gay or Straight) who doesn't have a 'best buddy' to hang-out with. He's still mourning the leaving of Andi (and both Andi and Olli were annoyance in the Christian/Coco relationship in regards to how much time Christian spent with them). Besides, maybe he considers that the practicality of dating Olli. Buddy+sex. Besides, I think Gregor is fullfilling some of the traditional buddy functions as well (did it too before Andi and Christian made up and became friends). And Gregor? Gregor probably doesn't have male friends at the moment because at this point he is probably going to be paranoid that they'll just sleep with his women like Leonard did. ;D
|
|
mgh48
Junior Member
Posts: 368
|
Post by mgh48 on Aug 5, 2008 10:29:43 GMT -5
LOL Yeah, all that makes sense. And, of course, for Christian, the only 'straight' (remember, I still believe the moronic Axel is secretly Gay) man who's expressed an interest in friendship is the Neanderthal, himself. I guess, after this, very few from the boxing club, if any, will overtly want to be best buds with Chris. Or, who knows? Maybe Christian's coming out will give the others the courage to do so---he can't possibly be the only Gay boxer in Dusseldorf, eh? Geoff
|
|
bg26
New Member
Posts: 91
|
Post by bg26 on Aug 5, 2008 11:00:13 GMT -5
finally some time to write down some of my thoughts about last episode. I've been reading all yours with a lot of attention and must say some of them really are amazingly thoughtful and interesting to think about. First, I found the "speech" Christian gave in the boxing ring quite good but I found it over the top when he declared he was gay and a boxer and asked if anyone would have a problem with that. In my view, most of the people must already have guessed that: he had kissed Olli and stated that Olli was his "grosse liebe". People could figure that one out So, I thought that was a bit too much. But, maybe Christian was in fact still "high" on emotions because of his victory and could no longer contain himself... Anyway kudos to him for speaking out that honestly about his lover Olli. I've read some of you found the audience reaction unrealistic, (cheering and applauding Christian's speech) but I did see quite a lot of people not applauding or cheering. I guess some box-fans (mostly the women) really are open-minded and wanted to show their support to Christian but some of them also kept quiet and probably didn't want to hear any of it. I believe that's a realistic portrait of society's attitudes. Homophobes will mostly keep quiet when other people are around because of social pressure. About the party afterwards in No Limits. I found the discussion between Olli and Christian good. It showed their typical characters: Olli always worried about Christian and Christian always impulsive and a bit naive. The party itself was a bit boring, but everybody present had other things on their mind, so that's a good reason. Probably the most impressive scenes for me were the ones were Christian and Olli glanced at each other or gave kisses or huggs. I know it's been said a thousand times before, but these two actors really are perfect in portraying a gay couple. It's as if both actors really like their roles and characters. Their emotional and physical interactions are so realistic, it's not surprising many people actually begin to take their wishes for granted and almost see them as a real-life couple They just "click" with each other. The scene that illustrates this very well is the one were everybody leaves No Limits and they remain just by themselves. The way they stared at each other and their eyes locked into each other, it took my breath away. Without saying a single word they were telling each other that they were horny as hell and just wanted to jump each other there and then and have the most exciting sex ever! ;D Wow, truly amazing actors. I must say, I've never seen two guys play their role as a gay couple so convincingly as these two. At this moment, they probably are the cutest and most succesful gay couple ever portrayed on television!
|
|
restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
|
Post by restenergy on Aug 5, 2008 11:40:53 GMT -5
There were a few things that did seem amiss. The crowd cheering so much for Christian's declaration didn't seem quite right to me, either. It was too exuberant, and not mixed enough. The party could have seemed a bit more energetic, and with fewer personal tensions hanging about. It would have been nice to have Charlie there, but I suspect she needed to go and see to her own bar.
I didn't see the transition between angry Olli and the Olli we saw on Monday a problem. First, there was the "How could I be so stupid?" moment on Friday, with Olli rushing out to be there for Christian. We also saw on Friday that Christian was already beating himself up for being so boorish toward Olli. It also seems to me that Olli is a very forgiving person. He might not do it immediately, but when he does it's pretty wholeheartedly.
Most importantly, it seems to me, Christian gave Olli what he most wanted: to be able to publicly acknowledge their love and relationship, to not have to hide. And as Christian did it, he also recognized that the whole thing was probably as hard or harder on Olli than it was on him. How can Olli not end up on cloud nine after that? The sex thing was something that made the hiding bearable. I don't think it was the real problem. (And, I actually think that Gregor understood that it was much more than just the sex when he had his little talk with Christian on Thursday.)
Olli ducking out to clean seems to be a typical Olli combination tease and responsibility thing. Remember after the sirtaki conversation? Olli suggestively suggested that he and Christian should go dance. Christian asked "sirtaki or freestyle" and Olli abruptly changed and said it was time for Christian to go running. He did the same thing about cleaning up. Only this time with the added suggestion that Christian go up and prepare for a more intimate time together.
Lastly, on Olli backing away from Axel: This didn't seem that off to me. Perhaps he could have and should have defended himself more when Axel pushed him down, but it doesn't seem so strange or out of character that he didn't. I would guess that surprise, alcohol, and even plain ordinary fear may have played a role. But Olli isn't really one to quickly move to violence, or one who would land the first blow. And while Axel came in aggressively, was there any real reason to expect that it was anything more than intimidation and being threatening, as opposed to a real and honest threat? Olli sometimes does act quickly and without much thought, but he at least tries to be one who thinks things through. It seems to me that Olli was surprised, maybe a bit slow from alcohol or having his mind on other things, but also wouldn't be so inclined to act without first assessing the situation. The situation got away from him. (Not to mention, it's a bit more dramatic to end the episode with this kind of danger.) Finally, the difference between when Olli got in Axel's face at No Limits and now is that then he was in a bar full of people and Christian was right behind him. Now he is alone. I think that would make some difference for most of us, wouldn't it?
Just my own few thoughts. I can certainly see how Olli's mode change can seem quite abrupt and so forth, and there are reasons to think thusly. The way I see Olli, this just seems in character to me.
|
|
|
Post by Bonobochick on Aug 5, 2008 12:42:54 GMT -5
Let's not forget that Axel also had a weapon. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly female who mostly gets taught to run and scream "Fire!" in situations like this unless you are some black karate belt (and usually not even then). I only watched it the one time, but didn't Olli still have the keys when Axel came at him? I mean a basic self defense trick is to take one and jam it in someone's eye or throat if being attacked (and no, I've not formally taken a self-defense class but my mother taught me that). I guess for me, I was surprised Olli didn't really fight, weapon or not. And count me in as pleased that the whole bashing is not seen. I got more than I wanted to see of that with AWZ's gaybashing incident against Roman.
|
|
restenergy
Full Member
Olli forever (and Christian, too)
Posts: 1,667
|
Post by restenergy on Aug 5, 2008 13:29:01 GMT -5
I only watched it the one time, but didn't Olli still have the keys when Axel came at him? I mean a basic self defense trick is to take one and jam it in someone's eye or throat if being attacked (and no, I've not formally taken a self-defense class but my mother taught me that). I guess for me, I was surprised Olli didn't really fight, weapon or not. In my experience, those kinds of self-defense tricks get talked about in venues that target women. Maybe men are thought able to defend themselves without being taught anything like that, or maybe some authorities or other organizations believe women especially need to know those sorts of things. I don't know. But I also have to wonder how often those techniques are actually used when people feel themselves in danger or are actually being asaulted. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of people, even when they've done some sort of self-defense class, don't follow through on that sort of thing.
|
|
|
Post by summerinthecity on Aug 5, 2008 15:13:17 GMT -5
Actually Ansgar & Gregor were supposed to be "best friends" back then, but Gregor's sleeping with his "bride to be" Nathalie and getting her pregnant didn' t go down to well with Ansgar and he never forgave Gregor (and honestly - who would want the bad villain Ansgar as his best friend anyway ) - I think it's in character as Ansgar has never been known as very forgiving by all means - and the reason why Gregor and Leo are not really on speaking terms either is Sarah, and well, Cécile is dead, so there are not many options left except Carla, Christian and Oli. Spoiler: But I'm still really looking forward to Oli's and Gregor's night out when Gregor forgets all about his date with Rebecca because he has so much fun with OliOn a random note: if they ever REALLY REALLY want to get rid of Tanja, Ansgar and Gregor (and possibly Sebastian) will have to team up again or they will never succeed ;D And on a totally random note: IMO, the actor who plays Ansgar looks hot when he (especially his hair) is a bit messed up and is not looking his usual villain "Ansgar-self" ;D... .Unfortunately "Ansgar" is in completely other storylines than Oli and Christian... *fixed quote tags -BChick
|
|
|
Post by tihkon2 on Aug 5, 2008 15:26:56 GMT -5
Heh, summerinthecity, I said almost the exact thing awhile back. Ansgar is sexy when he's a messy. Especially one scene when he was lounging around in pajamas and had "bed-head". ;D
|
|
|
Post by brownsugar on Aug 5, 2008 19:06:18 GMT -5
Completely agree with you on the scene in No Limits when they were left alone. The long eye lock, then subsequently moving behind the bar where they couldn't keep their hands off each other. And then plans made for what was meant to be a pretty romantic and lovemaking filled evening. Of course we see the clip at the end and know ain't nothing going on but Axel's boot on Olli's chest.
I completely agree with you about Olli and Christian being the best gay couple I've ever seen portrayed on TV. Naturally all respect goes to the phenomenal job Jo and Thore are doing.
As for this episode...I loved it!! I found both Olli and Christian in Character.
We all know that Christian is a very passionate guy. He detested having to hide his relationship with Olli; it was eating away at him like a Cancer. He knew that it was also very demeaning and hurtful to Olli. Winning the boxing match against your strongest opponent with the love of your life standing at your side, and hundreds of people cheering you on was one hell of a euphoric moment for him. He got very caught up in the moment and wanted the whole world to know about the man who made it all happen for him. He just didn't want to hide any more. At that moment in time, and most likely his proudest moment, the passionate Christian wanted to tell the world...I am 'gay' and this is "my big love, Olli."
I did see a realistic depiction of the crowd's reaction in Friday's episode, but on this episode it wasn't followed through. We should have gotten a zoom in of some in the crowd looking stunned, others shouting a few homophobic remarks and booing, and maybe others walking out. But the reaction from the crown made it seem as though all were supporting them, when we know this wasn't true because Olli even mentioned it to Christian at the party.
All in all I absolutely adored this sweet and loving episode. I would say...it was a nice set up for what is to come down the line. Olli and Christian will go from one hell of a high to quite a low judging by what was shown at the end of this episode.
*fixed quote tags -BChick
|
|