Siblings in Spirit - VL's lesbian love stories

[lolaruns]

Most of you might remember grand lesbian Carla who helped Ollian get their article published. So all discussion of her, her potential romance with Stella and all the other lesbian characters and relationships of VL, please in here.

Anyway short guide to the important lesbian stories in particular how they relate to the gay storylines. There were more lesbian relationships, I'm only citing the important ones though.

Nina and Erika: They were the first really popular lesbian couple. Many accused Tom Chroust and the Tom and Ulli gay romance to be the reason why the couple was nixed by the way of formerly straight Erika cheating on Nina with her male ex and Nina subsequently entering a long sexless/storyless period as Tom and Ulli's advice giver.

Carla and Hanna: Carla's first storyline and it's considered even by many non lesbian fans to the pinnacle (or at least one of the pinaccles) of romantic storytelling on VL. Carla falls in love with the straight Hanna, Hanna fights her feelings, they get together but have to keep their love secret because Carla doesn't want to be outed as a lesbian. Hanna finally develops a kidney disease, Carla fights heaven and hell to get Hanna a donor, but Hanna has a premonition of her own death and dies in Carla's arms.

Carla and Susanne: Carla's other big and popular romance. Formerly straight Susanne falls in love with Carla on first sight and wins her heart. They marry in a lavish white ceremony (which of course in the end gets held up by Susanne's evil ex-husband who is trying to steal her daughter and wants to blow everybody up). Susanne wants a child but is barren. So Carla agrees to be artificially inseminated. Sperm donor is Olli's uncle Lars. Lars ends up falling in love with Susanne. Lots of tension arises in the marriage. Carla cheats on Susanne with annoying short term bitch character Fredericke. Carla and Susanne eventually break up. Baby is born, Carla announces she can no longer trust Susanne (Susanne in the meantime has slept with Lars and they officially have a girlfriend/boyfriend relationhip) and they divorce even though Susanne pleads with her that she loves her more than Lars and wants to try again. After a fight with her father Arno Susanne gets written off to leave town to move to France.

Some people again accuse Tom Chroust for the Susanne and Carla relationship ending just as Christian and Olli started (and Carla not being allowed any love life at all after Susanne left). That might be true, but personally, I think the bad writing for them, such as Carla sleeping with Fredericke or generally them doing a sperm donor story predates Chroust.

Anyway, some people have suggested that there are a lot of similarities between Susanne and Carla, because the relationship was also very popular, very hotly debated on the German boards (with the people who identified with the story being very devoted/fanatical and verbosely and poetically supportive about the story, being convinced that it was the best most amzingly beautiful story ever). They also went through a similarly long separation during the Christmas/New Year's time when the actress for Carla had a real life professional engagement and Carla was written to go to New York on business during that time period (a time which was used to move Susanne closer to Lars).

And of course there now is potentially Carla and Stella: People have been wondering if there being a potential lesbian romance might have a negative effect on Ollian's airtime. I have seen people express the sentiment that if Ollian were to break up because of that relationship, they wouldn't be able to ever enjoy the relationship (just like it was undoubtedly with Ollian for many Carlafans when their couple was ended for Ollian). While of course many others like or dislike the story on its own merits. Biggest complaint so far, the actress for Stella being a very poor actress, especially when it comes to clear diction.

So, any thoughts on Starla? Love/Loathe? Feel skeptical? I was rather surprised that I read somebody expressing the opinion (I think it was Lugia?) that they feel too similar to Ollian to her (with the antagonistic beginnings). So far I haven't really felt that, but who knows. For those who watch, is Starla something that you could picture yourself liking eventually as it develops or do you instead wish it would just go away?

[mona]

Carla and Hanna: At first I thought: Wow! Really romantic and Hanna was one of my favourites. Later it didn't make sense anymore. Carla was too "happy" about her fake relationship and why did she have to marry Bernd? She was never honest about her love until everyone found it out anyway. Why did she have to lie? She's a powerful business women (nothing comared to boxing) and about her father... How long did she want to hide it from him? It bothered me that I never saw her trying to be honest and not even when Hanna died she was able to be honest on her funeral. It was like "She's gone now anyway why should I bother and get into trouble but I think it was a question of honor for Hanna and her love.

I don't like Stella and Carla. Carla is a "cold" actress and Stella isn't helping. Hanna was so loveable and warming that Carla melted but Stella has the same cold charme. I would buy it as a funny affair but not as a serious lovestory.

[lolaruns]

Yeah, I was thinking about that just recently. That I could much more buy Stella falling somebody currently more lively like Sarah or Rebecca than current Carla. It just seems like most of the things that are genuinely cool about Carla like her strenght, her worldiness, her art, her somewhat tragic life are things that IMO wouldn't necessarily impress Stella. So I can see why Carla might fall for Stella since the show kept signalling to us how lonely she is and how badly she is looking for a connection. But I have a much harder time picturing the reverse, why Stella would have feelings for Carla.

I mean, sure Carla is beautiful but is that hasn't made the angels sing for Stella so far (like it did with Susanne), why would her beauty be so much to sway Stella later? Especially since the castle isn't exactly empty of other beautiful women.

I kind of wonder if that might be the story that they are going for intentionally. That, regardless of whether it fits 100 percent with Carla's previous story or not, they are portraying Carla as the icy cheerleader who "beisst auf Granit" for the first time, who or the first time falls for somebody who isn't impressed with her usual schtick at all.

I don't really need for everything to be a serious big love story and I think stories can be interesting to watch even if they are not that (I thought Carla and Anke was plenty of soap entertainment and that wasn't a serious love on anybody's part either). My question is that if the writers really intend for it to be a serious lovestory, how they are going to pull it off, especially Stella's side (since Stella so far doesn't seem like the kind of person who would buy into the kind of life Carla lives, it just seems too serious for Stella, especially with the kid).

If it is not meant as a big love story, then I'm very cool with it too. Rock on, et all. If it is meant as a big love story, I think more has to be revealed for it to work for me.

[lolaruns]

Some more Starla progress (Carla beginning to look wistfully and Stella changes her clothes in front of Carla) as well as the arrival of the princess can be seen here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JXJ1rD7r2M

[lolaruns]

Some cute caps of Starla:


Stella flirtily offers Carla a taste of the dessert she spilled on her blazer.


Carla realizes that she has a thing for Stella.

Source

[mona]

The whole thing is making Carla look shallow IMO. I missed an emotional scene besides Carlas " " when Stella was changing her clothes. I wouldn't have liked the moment when Olli saw Christian coming out of the shower without the talk at the campfire. It made it more personal and somehow cute. Carla is seeing Stella in a "better light" because she is attracted to her? I don't think Carla is really in love, she thinks Stella is cute and good looking. And watching the preview I don't really get why Stella is offering Carla to be there for her after all she has been through with her.

I think one of the best lesbian kisses was Vanessa and Cocos. I don't know exactly but I think Cocos boyfriend (or ex at the time?) came in after she had aleady explained to him that she didn't order the book about lesbian love. I thought the kiss was good and the moment in general was perfect.

[lolaruns]

Agreed. I don't buy it as love yet. One could argue that after the long dryspell Carla had it is already progress if she just thinks somebody is cute.

But to me it's a bit weird to see somebody as serious like Carla being involved in what seems a bit like the crush of a young girl. It doesn't quite ring true yet.

[chango]

Jan 25, 2009 15:47:47 GMT -5 @mona said:

I wouldn't have liked the moment when Olli saw Christian coming out of the shower without the talk at the campfire. It made it more personal and somehow cute.

I don't think Starla are in the same place Ollian where in after the campfire talk. It'll be interesting to see how tomorrows episode plays out with the anniversary of Johannes death taking place and then there's the intimate moment they share during the Sebastian abduction. These kind of moments could be something like what the campfire talk was for Ollian. Of course the spoilers say Carla is "verliebt" but to me it looks more like "having a thing for Stella". Nothing too serious yet but Carla gradually noticed a couple of things about Stella that made her more and more attractive to her and I think that's something they've lead up to in quite a nice way with everything that happened after Stella saved her at that party. I "got" and liked the story so far, I actually think it's all pretty cute. Carla's little smiles since ep. #3307, her reaction when Sarah and the others noticed how well Stella and her seem to get along now and all that. She's really adorable when she has a crush on somebody and does a terrible job hiding it .

[mona]

It's not that I hate it but it bothers me a little bit that Carla wasn't nice to Stella until she had this moment of physical attraction and fell in love with her. Or started to have some kind of feelings. Carla is the one who is responsible for their disagreements and now of course they won't have that anymore because Stella is glad if it stops and Carla has feelings. I would have liked it more if she would have started to feel something for the first time during a conversation (for example the serious thing today) When they show somethings like that now, I'm not surprised Carla will react good because she already has a thing for Stella and Stella was never the one who didn't like Carla.

I don't understand the thing with changing her mind about Stella. I thought it happened when Stella helped her in NL but after that she was the same mean boss as before. So, I have to guess it happened because Stella is attractive and she managed it to make a good welcome for the princess and that are weird reasons to fall in love with someone for me. Especially since Stella didn't change from the beginning. I got it with Christian and Olli because Christian was acting weird an then he heard the prison story and noticed Christian is a good guy and so on but Stella was Stella from the beginning.

Well, maybe it doesn't help that I don't really love these two characters but I think Stella was cute and everything when the princess came.

And it's nice for Carla to have a lovestory again but I hope they don't want to tell this is a big lovestory like everyone of Leonards with all the "I've never loved anyone like I love you"

[lolaruns]

Carla drew a picture of Stella. Aka the official sign of Carla-in-love-ness:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQlHLbKz3IU

[kes]

Great clip. I always love seeing Carla -- but the picture drawing does seem rather, well, sad.

[lolaruns]

I found this really funny English language writeup of Carla's situation around around the time Carla arrives: eurout.org/node/619

The Carla/Stella story was also mentioend in the International TV roundup on AfterEllen (warning: spoilers for how the story continues)

[lolaruns]

It is done! Charlie joins the cast of All My Lesbians

[lolaruns]

Little Bubble made two Starla Wallpaper. I have to say, I'm really impressed with the technique, particuarly with the second one.

bleedinglove89.funpic.de/Wallpaper/vl.jpg
bleedinglove89.funpic.de/Wallpaper/vl2.jpg

Leave Feedback here

I have to say I'm always a bit amused by current Starla fanvids, because it always seems to me like they only have very few scenes to work with so far.

[kes]

A quick note: Thanks for starting up this thread. I haven't been able to keep up -- but I'm glad it's here.

[lolaruns]

I have "Verbotene Liebe" sorted by newest as my regular youtube search. During that I noticed:

- There are a lot of Starla videos lately
- Wow, me and lesbians have very different tastes in music it seems

That said, though I'm still not completely sure what to think of Starla, this video I really like. [might be the son though]

[chrollifan]

Stella without voice - for win!

Talking about Starla: I've watched all this stuff only once, because I'm not really into it and have almost forgotten already how it all began (now I understand a little bit better, why general audience is sometimes reluctant in the question of Ollian

Although it seems that writers are dragging Starla-story too long and they are not moving anywhere. For example, it took two months for Olli to fall in love with Christian and one more month for Christian to develop feelings and they were together five months after Olli arrived. This story was consistent and had a clear direction. Carla fell in love with Stella 1,5 months after she arrived, but Stella still don't have feelings for Carla SPOILER: five months after her arrival. According to spoilers they are in the same place at the end of April, as tomorrow. Throwing Charlie into equation was an interesting step, but I don't see how it serves the Starla-story in a positive way. Of course writers could surprise me yet

OT: ARD has a Youtube-channel! They uploaded "Jasmin Lord shopping" and "First day of shooting with Mascha Müller" but not "Jo and Thore in Canada" or "Episode 3333 celebrations"!? Boo!

[lolaruns]

Well, I do hope for the Starlites that it means that they want to take it slow. Because yeah, that kind of pacing really only makes sense if you intend the story to last 1-2 years and intend to give a big payoff.

I'm actually a fan of stories that take longer to develop (though I think part of Ollian's charme was its brevity, though I do think that it felt a bit short/fast the way they did it), I'm just not sure if we can really be sure that that is where the story is going.

It's easier with couples like Gregor and Luise or Sarah and Leo where you have almost a handwriten guarantee by the authors that there will be payoff. With Starla there is no such guarantee so far. I don't think that something like Charlie would necessarily be a dealbreaker for a really longer and really well written story. The question is, is that what Starla is/will be? And the question mark around Claudia Hiersche and the future of the Lahnsteins doesn't really help.

Of course it's generally hard for me to judge because though I think a long and detailed story might be the most suitable thing for Starla, as an Ollian fan I would naturally prefer for that not to happen. (though in this situation Ollian rather than Starla being the ones on the official website banner is a great comfort)

I do feel sorry for the Starla-ites because juding by the amount of mvids being posted it seems that there is a decent amount of people who have bought into the whole UST aspect.

Now just on a clean story level I don't mind the drawn-out-ness of the story (if that is what it is). Almost all big couples of the recent years have operated on giving you a sneak preview period where the couples gets together really fast in the beginning and then is ripped apart for a long time (Sarah/Leo going on dates and having a brief relationship before they find out that they are siblings, LySeb during the social services story and now GreLu in the hangar). So in theory having a story in in parallel where the character do not just automatically fall for each other that quickly seems like an good alternative to me.

The typical supercouple strategy of this preview period might be the best way to tell a story, but if ALL stories are told like this, it takes the quality out of the concept as well.

Anyway, personally, for the longest time I thought that maybe Starla was just means to an end to introduce Stella and that Stella/Charlie would be the real couple. Like, Carla develops some interest in Stella so we and viewers start watching Stella because now her actions are more important because they are important to Carla and affect whether Carla will get to hook up with her. With the showing using this interest in Stella to actually sell us on the idea of Stella/Charlie, so that will be the couple when Carla leaves.

Except that that obviously isn't the plan because they show us completely disproportionately less of Starlie than they show us of Starla/Carla. What exactly they are doing, I really have no idea at all. I guess it is vaguely possibly that it is part of some grand masterplan, but so far I'm not really convinced.

[lugia]

Mar 15, 2009 20:14:35 GMT -5 @chrollifan said:

This story was consistent and had a clear direction.

I totally agree. I said this elsewhere, that half the Ollian fun was watching progress week by week. Each episode, you always got something for your money and that's why it works so well as a YouTube playlist.

People have said this about "Supernatural." Even the stand-alone episodes tell you a lot about the brothers and the overall season arc. When Judith invited Fabian et al to dinner, even one look that Christian and Olli exchanged was significant progress.

For me the kicker also is that Stella doesn't return Carla's feelings. It somewhere got off track and I became disenchanted. Kind of like you could buy into Coco/Olli if you wanted, but when you realized that Olli wasn't remotely interested, there was no point staying emotionally attached yourself.

[lolaruns]

But that's the clinch isn't it? The Starlites obviously think that there is something going on (after all Christian also had a time where he wasn't interested or proclaimed not to be interested).

I think it is hurt even more because Anne isn't a very good/experienced actress so half of the time we don't know whether we are seeing what we are supposed to be seeing. I can actually see why somebody might get the impression that Stella actually looks kinda into/connected to Carla (or at least more than she looks to be into Charlie) pretty much regardless of what the storyline is saying). But we have no way of knowing if that is intended or whether that is just "Anne" digging Claudia more than she digs Gaby. (though even on top of that that is still/always the question of who gets the screentime)

I don't really mind slow moving. I think for example, with Leo and Cecile, though they fell in love at first sight, it actually took quite a long while (at least in my impression) of cat and mouse playing for them to have sex and then for them to really want to be together. Another example is a lesbian storyline on Guiding Light between two characters named Natalia and Olivia who have actually been building for over a year till the show finally sat down about a month ago and said "yeah, this is going to be a gay storyline and it was planned all along and there will be payoff". So one year of build up and only now are the writers defining it as romantic. Which is almost impressive again.

(sideline: Olivia and Natalia actually seem quite interesting because it seems like on a media level they are almost the lesbian equivalent of Ollian in the way it is really connects insanely much with the viewers, drags in a lot of viewers who don't normally watch soaps and get a lot of media attention in venues that should normally be totally out of their league. And it seems the kind of praise they get is almost identical, about how well built it is and how the people connect with it because it's told as a love story between people rather than as a gay/lesbian clichee story)

As for Starla, I guess I could see ways/payoffs that would make it work (like lots of Stella chasing Carla now) the question is that I still don't feel sure whether that is really what the writers intend to do/to give.

[chrollifan]

It's kinda late in here and I should think about it a little bit after a nap Only one thing, I wouldn't have anything against slow moving if characters really have a connection and are pinning for each-other or are slowly approaching (I agree that writers could've dragged Ollian a little bit longer .

Only in this case, at the beginning Stella and Carla started to move closer, but then they suddenly stopped and Stella is going in another direction, chasing Charlie, although she knows now Carla much better. What kinda kick Stella still needs to "see Carla with other eyes" like the show likes to describe falling in love? Carla has declared her love, they have kissed twice, Stella has comforted and helped her, but still nothing. It seems quite plausible option now that they will never be a couple.

Christian is a little bit different case, because Olli is his first male love interest and even if he was attracted to Olli already earlier it took him time to admit his feelings and it happened only after Olli made his move, but Stella and Carla are both lesbians and should know if they are interested in each-other.

[lolaruns]

Carla has declared her love, they have kissed twice, Stella has comforted and helped her, but still nothing. It seems quite plausible option now that they will never be a couple.

Christian is a little bit different case, because Olli is his first male love interest and even if he was attracted to Olli already earlier it took him time to admit his feelings and it happened only after Olli made his move, but Stella and Carla are both lesbians and should know if they are interested in each-other.

To me, that is the part that is very much fixable with good writing.

Go melodramatic. Do "I was afraid of my own feelings/I have never been in love before like this/you scare the hell out of me". (not that Anne could ever pull that off....)

If straight people can suffer from this, why shouldn't lesbians be able to as well? Why shouldn't that kind of intensity of feelings be also be possible in more normal situations (I wasn't looking for something serious/I was afraid my feelings might not be strong enough/I want to be there for you but I can't explain it, blablabla...) rather than just when it comes to sexual confusion? After all people can be confused on relationship issues and have commitment issues even without the added issue of sexual confusion.

And those kind of not getting together stories have existed even for straight couples where there technically was no sexuality obstacle either. Like Mili/Nick/Steffi or Fabian/Judith Constantin. The show after all also asked us to buy that Judith was supposedly on some level in love with Constantin all along and somehow didn't see it. Even though there was absolutely no reason why they couldn't have hooked up.

(and the "it could have been easy if this were just a casual relationship, but everything is complicated precisely because it isn't" is another oldie but goodie that has been used to explain UC relationship for ages)

So, I do think that it is possible. I just don't necessarily think that that is where the writers are going.

But in a devil's advocate way, they are lesbians, so they decide they like each other and go on a date wouldn't have made a particularly exciting storyline. So trying to come up with something that does try to rival the emotional turmoil of an outing story and creates a real obstacle I guess makes sense on paper. But again, not convinced that that is really what we are seeing/not convinced that there will ever be any payoff.

[brownsugar]

I've watched some of the episodes, but to be honest, I don't really have a vested interest in this storyline. But from what I've seen, the problem lies with the actress who plays Stella, she is just too weak to play the part. She really isn't a very good actress. I'm just not convinced she is infatuated with Charlie. It's like acting performed on a high school stage. And up against Claudia she looks even worse. Claudia really plays her part well, you really believe she is totally crushing on Stella the way that Olli had it bad for Christian. But Stella just comes off confusing and wishy washy, like she is playing a game or doesn't know if she is coming or going. And all acted out poorly. I heard she is a ex model of some sort which could be where the problem lies.

When Jo and Thore play the part of Olli and Christian, you feel as though you are watching two people really in love. You know they are just acting out their character storyline, but when you watch them you see something authentic. There was also direction in their storyline, great chemistry and terrific acting you believed in.

I think next time maybe VL should try to go for an actress with some type of decent acting skills instead of someone who can walk well down a catwalk.

[lolaruns]

The thing is, is it ultimately written for us? I know in the beginning there was at least some people on the German board who were "yeah, right" on Christian being in love with Olli. Just like there are at least some people now who watch Starla the way we watched Ollian, by following every move, ohhhing and ahhhing over every little nook or cranny and overinterpreting every scene.

The problem is that I'm not sure if they are really doing what the writers intended (while with Chroust and Ollian we know we were correct), if they aren't seeing more depth than there is intended by the writing. Never mind Anne's flawed acting, at this point even the writing is giving mixed messages. At least in a case like Grebecca you knew what the writing wanted this to be and that Jasmin Lord just fell short of portraying it. With Starla, even on a pure writing level I'm not sure what they are doing. Like the writing says that Stella is supposedly in love with Charlie. Yet the very same writing doesn't spend any time on this and makes Stella/Charlie come off as an afterthought.

It seems that Anne plays most of the attraction scenes with Charlie to the letter. She might not do the most appealing job, but you at least knew what she is trying to portray. Like "make an endearing "I'm in luv" face" or "bite your lip and check her out". But even if you assumed those scenes were much better played they still don't make a lot of sense. They danced, Stella checked Charlie out. Then there was a week or two of scenes which mostly consisted of Stella ragging to Charlie about how she just. doesn't. understand. Carla (scenes mostly taking place between "door and angle" as a lead in to other scenes as opposed to "scenes where Charlie and Stella have a conversation"). And then Stella suddenly announced to Olli that she was in love with Charlie. Even though at this point it seem like she has had more and longer conversations with Olli than she has had with Charlie herself and other than the dance didn't really have any other type of suggestive scene (comparable to lets say Carla walking in on Stella undressing). Don't get me wrong, a great actress might have managed to add pining to even those casual conversations about other people. But with how shallow those scenes are I'm seriously wondering what exactly they are supposed to mean anyway. There is a long, built up, shot out Starla hug as they deal with Sebastian's kidnapping, why wasn't there a Starlie hug instead or some sort of Charlie reaching out to Stella and comforting her?

Or it maybe it is not supposed to be a deep story. VL has often had stories before that sort of took place on the sidelines and where it wasn't really that important who got who. But if that is what Starla is then CH is almost too good and is given too much scope to act on the top of her game. The scenes are almost too flashy to be a "Yeah, whatever" story.

[chango]

It will be interesting how they end the kiss today. I was surprised by the way the showed it on Tuesday. With the music and the slow-motion it looked like one of those "big moments" in love stories. I just don't get why they go from this directly to Charlie and Stella again. It makes no sense since they never try to make Charlie and Stella the couple the viewers are really supposed to root for. Which is good I think. I could not see them in this position anyway. They just don't have chemistry for that. Like some German fans said - if they have longer scenes (dancing after the masked ball, unpacking) they are fun but completely "spannungsfrei". But it's really confusing since they're not clear with what they're going to do with Starla either.

In the beginning I thought maybe they wanted to test the waters first. See if Carla fans would accept Stella and a new love story for Carla. But Starla have fans now and I think it would be really, really mean to tease them with scenes like the ones from Tuesday's ep and then pull a JuCon end. Carla has been one of my favourite characters on the show for years until Ollian came along and I know Carla fans who are really happy to see her in this story after Chroust didn't treat her too well during his time with VL. Some of them are as excited again as they were during the Carla and Hanna days. I would hate to see TPTB disappoint them again. And while I love Ollian more than anything on the show I can't bring myself to hope for the lesbian story to be cut short so they can have a story again. TPTB should really be able to do both and not pit the fans of the gay stories and the lesbian stories against each other.