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Post by poisonouspixie20 on Aug 5, 2010 21:47:09 GMT -5
There were a lot of great things in today's ep imo, but the thing I liked the most was the fact that Deniz is leaning on Roman for support through the HIV SL. Just like LadyArmand said it proves how close they are to each other and it gives me hope for the future! Also, I loved Oliver rubbing Marian's nipples haha ;D
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megi307
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REAL lovestories never have endings!!!
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Post by megi307 on Aug 5, 2010 23:59:53 GMT -5
I agree with LadyArmand why Deniz moved his hand But, I think he did it, because was scared that he still loved when Roman touches him. Maybe he feels that he shouldn`t, after all is mad at him
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megi307
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REAL lovestories never have endings!!!
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Post by megi307 on Aug 10, 2010 12:55:49 GMT -5
Poor Deniz He`s so scared !!! I loved how Roman tried to calm down Deniz, but it looks like he can't not touch Deniz all the time You're just friends, right Roman Deniz only put his head on Roman`s arm and Roman lost his self control..... kissing Deniz has always been something Roman can't resist, even when they weren`t together !! I think, Deniz needs more a FRIEND, who isn`t Roman at this moment *sigh* Glad to see Vanessa is back !!!!
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Post by camjakefan on Aug 10, 2010 13:35:34 GMT -5
Roman I really like you again, I've always loved you I just didn't like your actions recently. it was great that you let Deniz know you would be there for him. I felt like if Deniz was positive that wouldn't keep Roman away.
I liked that almost kiss even though it's too soon for that. And we got an eskimo kiss. When Roman did that you could see the look of love on his face. Then you saw the fear, I think he realized he was moving to fast and he's probably scared Deniz is gonna think he's taking advantage of the situation.
I think Deniz was tempted to kiss Roman too but he's scared right now because of the awaiting test results and he's scared to trust Roman. You know that was what was holding him back because any other time he would kissed Roman and prbably had sex.
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Pedris2
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Hope dies last
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Post by Pedris2 on Aug 10, 2010 13:53:50 GMT -5
Yes, I love it Roman, as he feels with Deniz and support him. But, don't hurry so much Roman, Deniz need time and you too.
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megi307
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REAL lovestories never have endings!!!
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Post by megi307 on Aug 10, 2010 13:54:07 GMT -5
yeah, Roman was so careful with Deniz !!! But DeRo can't stay away from each other This has to be difficult for Roman, because he really does want to be in a relationship with Deniz. I'm starting to feel a little bad for Roman. He wants Deniz so much, but can't have him
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LadyArmand
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"Fortune favors the bold..." Virgil
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Post by LadyArmand on Aug 10, 2010 14:18:04 GMT -5
I think Roman forgot himself and the situation for a moment. Deniz is scared and hurting and all he wants to do is make it all go away. Yes it was too much too soon, but I think for Roman it was pure instinct. He says they’re friends but he’s hoping for so much more. Sometimes the lines blur. But they didn’t just blur for Roman, you could see it in Deniz’s face, the familiarity of it, he wanted it and if he only followed his heart they probably would have kissed, but his head keeps working overtime and he catches himself. Deniz trusts Roman as a friend, but not as a lover. He can’t trust that part of himself that wants and needs Roman, because of how much it hurts. Which is why he keeps himself contained when Roman touches him.
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Post by Zathras on Aug 10, 2010 21:35:16 GMT -5
Ep 986 from 10 August 2010 from EKP. Thanks!
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Post by tinasparkles on Aug 11, 2010 4:09:47 GMT -5
for me the 'Eskimo Kiss' turned my stomach, and i wish they wouldnt do it anymore. It was lovely and cool when it was a particular Roman and Deniz thing, but once Roman did it with Marc, it just became something Roman does with any one,he says he has ' feelings for'and wants to kiss and get his clothes off with ...'show' did disappoint me on that one at the time...maybe they thought that everyone could stomach Roman with anyone they chose...ermmm no 'show' not everyone could ...so quit the eskimo kiss, its lost its significance in this relationship and maybe i will feel different after tonite's episode, but at the moment, i dont have any sympathy for Roman at all, he stratched an itch with Marc, got him out of his system and now wants Deniz back after deciding Deniz was the one for him..........tuff Roman, you aint suffered enough yet babe.... and yes, i know its me, Dero4ever personified...but ermmm, before Deniz takes him back.... i want Roman, to feel that it's never gonna happen and be in the depths of dispair, and really know that it is over....coz imo as i said above he really hasnt suffered enough yet.... ;D so Go Deniz, make Roman feel as terrible as he made you feel , he deserves it.....and yes Deniz is an adult and what ever the situation he is not forced to take drugs or sleep around......blah blah blah blah. Nope dont buy that, this is all Roman's fault right down the wire....and yes we saw one scene with Marian the other day with Roman accepting that, and i hope we see many more.... good to see Vanessa back even only for 3 weeks, but hey Deniz needs a friend, and even tho i would suggest Roman is his closest friend, he needs some one out of the situation..as lines are very blurred at the moment between him and Roman,
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Post by butterfinger on Aug 11, 2010 7:37:50 GMT -5
tinasparkles I can see where you're coming from. But on the other hand - if you really want Deniz to be happy, the way to go is to reconcile with Roman. Deniz is miserable without him - we saw that. So why should Deniz let himself suffer more than necessary. Shit happens. All you can do is move on and try to avoid it in the future. And one thing I think we can be certain of - there is no second Marc in Roman's past.
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Post by tinasparkles on Aug 11, 2010 7:43:14 GMT -5
tinasparklesI can see where you're coming from. But on the other hand - if you really want Deniz to be happy, the way to go is to reconcile with Roman. Deniz is miserable without him - we saw that. So why should Deniz let himself suffer more than necessary. Shit happens. All you can do is move on and try to avoid it in the future. And one thing I think we can be certain of - there is no second Marc in Roman's past. i agree withyou BUTTERFINGER, shit does happen and you have to move on and i do want them to be happy, and yes that can only happen when they are together, i just want Roman to suffer a little bit more first... ;D
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Post by kicki03 on Aug 11, 2010 9:12:21 GMT -5
tinasparklesI can see where you're coming from. But on the other hand - if you really want Deniz to be happy, the way to go is to reconcile with Roman. Deniz is miserable without him - we saw that. So why should Deniz let himself suffer more than necessary. Shit happens. All you can do is move on and try to avoid it in the future. And one thing I think we can be certain of - there is no second Marc in Roman's past. i agree withyou BUTTERFINGER, shit does happen and you have to move on and i do want them to be happy, and yes that can only happen when they are together, i just want Roman to suffer a little bit more first... ;D I agree with both of you, but I also think that Roman derserves to suffer a little, like Deniz has to suffer, so that he really comprehends what he´s done and that he´ll never jeopardise their relationship so easily again.
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Post by tinasparkles on Aug 11, 2010 10:16:06 GMT -5
I did love last nite however, how they came together so instinctively and naturally, with Deniz's head tucked into Roman's neck before they both realised, they shouldnt be doing that anymore...but they just cant help it. ...but again Roman, nope sorry you aint suffered enough yet.... ;D
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Aug 11, 2010 10:29:53 GMT -5
I think what we have to remember is that people tend to suffer differently, just like they tend to grieve differently. I know some people want to see Roman on the floor in an ocean of his own tears as he longs for Deniz. I know and understand why some people want to see Roman suffer just as much if not more than Deniz has. My point however is who is to say he’s not, just in a different way.
Do you know how hard is must be for Roman to know that Deniz “trusts” him as a friend, but that he won’t allow it to go any further than that. That he can be close to Deniz, but nothing about that closeness is the same as it used to be. And that it’s all his fault. He ruined it. He made a choice to do something he knew would hurt Deniz once he found out about it and he can’t do anything to change it. He can’t explain it, he can’t talk it away and he (for the moment) can’t be forgiven for it. If this whole thing with Patrick hadn’t happened he wouldn’t even be talking to Deniz at the this point, because Deniz up until this happened didn’t want to have anything to do with him. Didn’t even want to be in the same room as him. Do you know how hard it must be to watch someone you love so deeply, hurt themselves because of something you did, and nothing you do or say can change it. That you have to stand there and watch as they self destruct and you can’t do anything about it. That the reason all of this is happening is because of you and you can’t even explain to anyone including yourself why you fucked it all happened in the first place.
And while yes Roman is the catalyst for what is happening now with Deniz., ultimately the choices Deniz made after he found out are his own. He has to own them, and he has to live with them. Roman is to blame for a lot, he is the reason for a lot. But Deniz has a mind of his own, and pain and loss are the reason for what he’s done to himself, but it doesn’t take the responsibly off of him for doing it. It’s easy to blame everything on Roman, it’s easy to say Roman should suffer. But Deniz has to be a man and see that yes Roman hurt him, but that’s no excuse for him to hurt himself.
Sympathy for Roman is at a minimum as it should be. But at thei point the story isn’t about Roman it’s about Deniz. And Deniz is suffering because he still loves and wants to be with Roman. He needs Roman, and in a way that defies logic he still on a certain level trust Roman, otherwise why tell him about sleeping with Patrick without a condom and fearing he’s might now be HIV positive? He hasn’t even told his own father about it. Yet this person who just recently devastated him, turning all the fixed point so his universe on its head knows and has been there for him comforting him, reassuring him that no matter what happens he will always be there for him. And just because Roman said it, Deniz starts to feel better, he starts to calm down and think that maybe everything will be alright because Roman believes it will. That tells you something about that relationship, it tells you something about how Deniz still feels and will always feel about Roman.
It also tells you that for Deniz to be happy at some point the has to forgive Roman. He has to move past what Roman did. He has to accept that things happen that can’t be explained away so easily if at all, that people who love you the most can and often do hurt you the most, but that doesn’t mean it lessens their love for you. And that you can either spend the rest of your life angry about it and being miserable or you can forgive them and try to move past it, either together or apart, but move past it.
I think this scare is what is ultimately going to help Deniz move past it, because there are so much worse things that can and do happen to a person. And life is too short to spend it miserable.
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megi307
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Post by megi307 on Aug 11, 2010 11:40:57 GMT -5
Do you know how hard is must be for Roman to know that Deniz “trusts” him as a friend, but that he won’t allow it to go any further than that. That he can be close to Deniz, but nothing about that closeness is the same as it used to be. And that it’s all his fault. He ruined it. He made a choice to do something he knew would hurt Deniz once he found out about it and he can’t do anything to change it. He can’t explain it, he can’t talk it away and he (for the moment) can’t be forgiven for it. If this whole thing with Patrick hadn’t happened he wouldn’t even be talking to Deniz at the this point, because Deniz up until this happened didn’t want to have anything to do with him. Didn’t even want to be in the same room as him. Do you know how hard it must be to watch someone you love so deeply, hurt themselves because of something you did, and nothing you do or say can change it. That you have to stand there and watch as they self destruct and you can’t do anything about it. That the reason all of this is happening is because of you and you can’t even explain to anyone including yourself why you fucked it all happened in the first place. You`re right and as I wrote earlier " I'm starting to feel a little bad for Roman", but I`m still mad at him. Completely understand bunnylover and tinasparkles They just want to Roman finally appreciated this relationship ( if DeRo back together) and so easily didn`t destroy everything again !!!!
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Post by camjakefan on Aug 11, 2010 12:54:11 GMT -5
They get so close and then Deniz reminds himself that they can't go there. He had to remind Roman that they aren't a couple anymore. I think he said he didn't want his pity as a way to push him a way in his mind. I'm glad Vanessa was there for Deniz to talk to he finally verbalized what we as the audience knew all along. It's good for him. When he touched the spot where Roman sat it wrenched your heart a little. Deniz still loves and longs to be with Roman but those mental pictures and his lack of trust continue to stop him.
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megi307
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REAL lovestories never have endings!!!
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Post by megi307 on Aug 11, 2010 13:16:41 GMT -5
I adore the Deniz/Vanessa scene so much - she's being such a good friend Roman should finally understand, that Deniz isn`t ready for the next level
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Post by tinasparkles on Aug 11, 2010 15:30:48 GMT -5
nope still not one iota of sympathy for Roman...... ;D and yes, maybe a bit of Jealousy from Roman, when he heard what Deniz said about Vanessa popping in to check on him coz Roman would be working...Deniz is sooo trying to distance himself.. and ofourse Roman could not utter a word.....odd in away (i know we havnt seen any more epps yet) but even after Oliver telling Roman if he loved Deniz he should fight for him, he seems to have given up a bit quick.....but then really i suppose Roman knows he wants to be back in relationship with deniz, and so does Deniz but not until he can get those images of Marc and Roman, out of his head and to stop haunting him.....and tbh, any piccie of Marc would want to make you throw up.....still not convinced that they can fix this properly and it not seem rushed..
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Aug 11, 2010 16:16:04 GMT -5
There’s fighting and then there is pushing a person past what they can physically and emotionally handle. Roman is fighting for Deniz and has been fighting for him since Marc left. Deniz however has been pushing him away because he doesn’t trust him as a lover and partner anymore. Which is perfectly understandable. Right now if Roman fights any harder he will push Deniz past a point that he probably won’t be able to recover from. Deniz is both physically and mentally not ready to deal with Roman as anything other than a friend. He’s got a lot of things going on right now. He loves Roman and wants to be with him, but he can’t get the images of Marc and Roman out of his head. Every time Roman touches him even that kiss earlier even though he wanted to give into it fully only reminded him of how Roman must have been with Marc. Add to this Deniz is scared shitless that he’s made a mistake he can’t recover from and will become HIV positive because of it. Dealing with how Roman feels about him, isn’t something Deniz can handle right now.
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Post by tinasparkles on Aug 11, 2010 17:08:28 GMT -5
have to say tho how Dennis and Igor Have really 'rocked ' acting wise during this storyline, well they always do TBH and their chemistry is off the scale as always,. ;D
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Post by lety26 on Aug 11, 2010 19:05:10 GMT -5
There’s fighting and then there is pushing a person past what they can physically and emotionally handle. Roman is fighting for Deniz and has been fighting for him since Marc left. Deniz however has been pushing him away because he doesn’t trust him as a lover and partner anymore. Which is perfectly understandable. Right now if Roman fights any harder he will push Deniz past a point that he probably won’t be able to recover from. Deniz is both physically and mentally not ready to deal with Roman as anything other than a friend. He’s got a lot of things going on right now. He loves Roman and wants to be with him, but he can’t get the images of Marc and Roman out of his head. Every time Roman touches him even that kiss earlier even though he wanted to give into it fully only reminded him of how Roman must have been with Marc. Add to this Deniz is scared shitless that he’s made a mistake he can’t recover from and will become HIV positive because of it. Dealing with how Roman feels about him, isn’t something Deniz can handle right now. IA I think giving him space is the best thing Roman can do right now, he has been fighting but how long can he continue fighting when Deniz isn't receptive? understandably so, but still.... sometimes it's best to let go than to cause more damage. Deniz still needs time to heal and deal however much he loves and wants Roman he's not ready to reunite yet, Roman is able to understand that and back off even if it hurts him. Spoiler: Also it seems he pulls completely away from Deniz later on thinking it's for the best. Causing Deniz to react by giving him another chance. Hopefully he's had enough time to deal with everything by then, we have 2 1/2 weeks to find out
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LadyArmand
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Post by LadyArmand on Aug 11, 2010 20:30:58 GMT -5
Here is the problem Roman has. Just because he’s ready to be forgiven doesn’t mean Deniz is ready to forgive him. And it isn’t that Deniz isn’t receptive, because we saw from the kiss that he is. It’s just that he can’t forget Marc. He can’t get the images of Marc and Roman together out of his mind. And as he said he wants to be happy with Roman again. He doesn’t want the pictures of Roman and Marc in his head, but he just can’t escape them.
Roman had to make this journey, in away that was probably inevitable. He had to find out that Deniz is IT for him. I think it would have happened even if Marc hadn’t shown up because Roman didn’t think he deserved the happiness he had found with Deniz and so he self sabotaged and used his lingering feelings and unresolved issues with Marc to do it. Now he knows without hesitation what he wants. Marc is his past, and Deniz is his present and future. He had to figure that out on his own, Deniz as much as they love each other couldn’t do that for him.
Now Deniz is on a journey, now he’s unsure not only of himself but of Roman. He’s wondering what he did wrong, what he said or did to deserve what happened. He wants Roman, longs for him, needs him,(we saw that when Roman left and Deniz touched the spot on the couch where Roman had been sitting) but he can’t forgive him. He gave his whole heart to Roman. He did what Roman always said he wanted from Deniz, which was to grow up. He stopped thinking about himself and his happiness first and put Roman and their relationship first. So much so that he allowed himself to be talked out of listening to his instincts when it came to Marc. He’s gone from this confident at times cocky young man to someone who not so long ago was almost a recluse, sleeping in the living room because he couldn’t bare to sleep in his own bed because of the images that came rushing into his head.
He’s in pain, he’s lonely and he doesn’t know how to deal with Roman. Like he told Roman, he can’t handle being close to him right now. Not because he isn’t receptive to Roman, but because he is. Because he wants Roman, wants to be held by him, wants to be kissed by him, wants to make love to him, but every time Roman holds him, his mind floats ghostly pictures of Roman doing all those same things with Marc. They come to him unbidden and unwelcome, but they come. He can’t stop them, even though he wants them to stop. The betrayal is runs so deeply, it’s taking a toll on him both mentally and physically. He doesn’t trust Roman nor does he trust himself around Roman.
If Roman really wants to be with Deniz, then he has to wait for as long as it takes for Deniz to figure some things out. He has to give Deniz the space he needs to grieve all they lost and get to a place (if he can) where he’s willing to open himself up to what they could still have. Roman has to be the loving and patient one now. He has to let Deniz go through his process. That too is a way to fight for Deniz. No matter what Roman wants right now, no matter how much he loves Deniz and wants to be with Deniz, he has to give Deniz what he needs. He has to put what’s best for Deniz first.
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Post by Zathras on Aug 11, 2010 20:37:38 GMT -5
Ep 987 for 11 August 2010 from EKP. Danke!
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Post by Zathras on Aug 11, 2010 21:06:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with you LadyArmand. Though I would like to see Roman try to deal with his role in it. That doesn't have to be crying all over the place, but I'd like to see more things like his talk with Oliver today. I still wonder whether we'll see if Roman will ever be able to explain why he did what he did. It seems to me that could be a significant roadblock to Deniz ever being able to trust fully him again. Just as Deniz has been forced to grow again as a person, I want to see Roman grow as a person. Maybe Deniz continually pushing him away, unable to trust him, will force Roman to confront it . Time will tell, I guess .
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Post by mh1717 on Aug 11, 2010 21:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with you LadyArmand. Though I would like to see Roman try to deal with his role in it. That doesn't have to be crying all over the place, but I'd like to see more things like his talk with Oliver today. I still wonder whether we'll see if Roman will ever be able to explain why he did what he did. It seems to me that could be a significant roadblock to Deniz ever being able to trust fully him again. Just as Deniz has been forced to grow again as a person, I want to see Roman grow as a person. Maybe Deniz continually pushing him away, unable to trust him, will force Roman to confront it . Time will tell, I guess . Yes to all. What I found interesting was that Deniz was leaning on Roman fine (even though every touch was difficult because they mean something) until the kiss or almost kiss, and then he realized that they are not just friends, but that as much as he wants to be back with Roman, he cannot get rid of the images of marc. I hope we see scenes of DeRo talking about this, and hashing things out. But it is clear a part of Deniz want Roman back and the other cannot help being hurt and not trusting him.
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